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Starhawk64 posted:As much as I like the Railroad and the idea of giving sentient machines free will, I decided to join the Institute because I love science, they're probably the best hope for rebuilding the world, and lastly, the floors are clean and they have working toilets. Eh, the institute's plans appears to be "Lol, gently caress all of you up there, we're gonna rebuild human civilization down here, and you're not invited!" Can't say I'm too sympathetic to them. That all could change with new directors, though.
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Nov 26, 2015 04:47
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khy posted:The vaults which were parts of experimens were never intended to be the seeds of humanity's future and so on. There were 'control group' vaults designed to fulfill that role. The purpose of the vaults was to experiment on people to determine the best way to control/coerce/lead them. A great many vaults are designed with this 'control' aspect in mind. Vault 101 which was basically a dictatorship. A vault full of clones. A vault where music was trying to coerce people. A vault to test how people would react to compulsory human sacrifice 'for the greater good'. Things like that. Oh, I know all that. I guess what I am saying is I want to know what ever happened to the people who ran Vault-Tec when the bombs fell, how long did they last, at what point did they realize that the whole thing was pointless because everywhere got blown up. If the world wasn't completely destroyed, what would the step for the control groups be after the all clear. Questions like that.
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Nov 26, 2015 04:51
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Just finished. Sided with the Railroad, and I was disappointed that there wasn't some kind of "I'm glad your father never saw you turn into this monster / You're no son of mine" dialogue option. I had to settle for telling him I was going to enjoy watching his empire crumble around him, and then blasting him in the face with a shotgun as he sat in his little sickbed. Talk about ideals and the greater good of humanity all you want, kidnapping people (for what reason, was it ever explained?) and massacring an entire town for one girl and a half-erased hard drive (University Point) makes you full of poo poo. It would also have been nice to be able to throw some of that back into his face as well.
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Nov 26, 2015 04:54
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khy posted:The vaults which were parts of experimens were never intended to be the seeds of humanity's future and so on. There were 'control group' vaults designed to fulfill that role. The purpose of the vaults was to experiment on people to determine the best way to control/coerce/lead them. A great many vaults are designed with this 'control' aspect in mind. Vault 101 which was basically a dictatorship. A vault full of clones. A vault where music was trying to coerce people. A vault to test how people would react to compulsory human sacrifice 'for the greater good'. Things like that.
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Nov 26, 2015 04:56
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T.G. Xarbala posted:They were most interesting in New Vegas, where they explored the consequences of their toxic beliefs and policies. That is, starting a war with an actual developed nation and getting crushed underfoot because their pro-purity stance and hostility towards outsiders, especially outsiders with technology, made their extinction an inevitability. The question this raises though, if the Brotherhood had been strong enough to go toe-to-toe with the NCR, or if they had the power to overcome them - would they have eventually turned similar to the FO4 Brotherhood? Destroying or at least commandeering Securitrons throughout New Vegas, ripping apart House's life support systems to study them, activating Archimedes, rerouting power from the Dam to their facilities, etc etc etc? What we're seeing in FO4 is what would have happened had the brotherhood not been so weakened by the Mojave. Seeing those toxic beliefs and policies from an active, viable threat instead of a group huddling in a bunker waiting out the inevitable. It's still the same brotherhood arrogance over everyone else, but with the addition of a viable threat that their religious beliefs force them into confronting directly. I think it's really interesting. The 'dubious jerks' are facing their raison d'être and this time there's no greater evil to team up against. You have to face their most deeply-held beliefs head on and determine whether or not they're right for yourself.
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Nov 26, 2015 04:56
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The Institute claims to want to rebuild human civilization but in over the years they've done much more to set it back than any other force in the Commonwealth. They're also dodgy at science and can't make a gun worth a drat. EDIT: khy posted:The question this raises though, if the Brotherhood had been strong enough to go toe-to-toe with the NCR, or if they had the power to overcome them - would they have eventually turned similar to the FO4 Brotherhood? Destroying or at least commandeering Securitrons throughout New Vegas, ripping apart House's life support systems to study them, activating Archimedes, rerouting power from the Dam to their facilities, etc etc etc? You're definitely not wrong. There's been a lot of people for whom this is the first time they've seen this side of the Brotherhood and it's a bit of a shock for them. You can see stuff like the occasional reddit thread with the topic "Are the Brotherhood EVIL?" and it's good that the getting people to talk about it. Kinda reminds me of people talking about the New Vegas factions, actually. Though without such an obviously batshit evil faction like the Legion, just an obviously batshit batshit faction in the Institute. Runa fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 04:57
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T.G. Xarbala posted:The Institute claims to want to rebuild human civilization but in over the years they've done much more to set it back than any other force in the Commonwealth. I know right? How is ti a laser pistol I pulled off some Rando raider does more damage than one made by the Institute.
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Nov 26, 2015 04:59
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BigRed0427 posted:Oh, I know all that. I've been curious about that as well. I figure maybe what remained of entities like Vault-Tec and Poseidon got absorbed into the Enclave. As for the vaults, they'd probably have opened after 20 years or so? Except Vault 13 was meant to stay closed for 100 years. I think whoever was in charge at the time was the type to say "that's just crazy enough to work!"
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Nov 26, 2015 04:59
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Beef Hardcheese posted:Just finished. Sided with the Railroad, and I was disappointed that there wasn't some kind of "I'm glad your father never saw you turn into this monster / You're no son of mine" dialogue option. I had to settle for telling him I was going to enjoy watching his empire crumble around him, and then blasting him in the face with a shotgun as he sat in his little sickbed. Talk about ideals and the greater good of humanity all you want, kidnapping people (for what reason, was it ever explained?) and massacring an entire town for one girl and a half-erased hard drive (University Point) makes you full of poo poo. It would also have been nice to be able to throw some of that back into his face as well. I think the whole thing with them "kidnapping" people is that the institute was recalling runaway synths that the ignorant surface dwellers thought were humans so they think that the institute has been kidnapping people.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:01
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Nuebot posted:I kind of wish they did more with the experimental side of things and less on the comically evil. I mean some are great like vault 101 and such but then like half the vaults are just "Lets hurt people and see what happens." "Everyone's dead" "Now I'm dying, who would have guessed." There's not a whole lot of 'comically evil' vaults. I'm going through the list here and the ones I can see that are 'comical evil' are mostly 3rd party stuff (Penny Arcade vaults more than anything). Were there any specifically you had in mind?
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Nov 26, 2015 05:01
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MarshyMcFly posted:I think the whole thing with them "kidnapping" people is that the institute was recalling runaway synths that the ignorant surface dwellers thought were humans so they think that the institute has been kidnapping people. I also think when people disappeared suddenly in the Commonwealth, everyone just blamed the Institute because their the region's boogyman. No matter the real reason.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:03
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MarshyMcFly posted:I think the whole thing with them "kidnapping" people is that the institute was recalling runaway synths that the ignorant surface dwellers thought were humans so they think that the institute has been kidnapping people. Nah, there are various family members and stuff that were replaced, so the Institute was definitely doing some shady stuff. Hancock's brother was replaced, for example.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:04
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BigRed0427 posted:Oh, I know all that. if you want to consider the lovely ps1 "fallout: brotherhood of steel" game as canon, then the higher up vault tec employees got their own vault called the "secret vault" http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Secret_Vault
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Nov 26, 2015 05:05
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khy posted:There's not a whole lot of 'comically evil' vaults. I'm going through the list here and the ones I can see that are 'comical evil' are mostly 3rd party stuff (Penny Arcade vaults more than anything). Were there any specifically you had in mind? A lot of the bethesda ones, like the gary vault, and the one you find valentine in. I mean maybe I missed some terminals that actually explained what they were doing in there but all I found were terminals saying how they wanted to just make everyone have a lovely life and that the staff shouldn't interfere with anyone, especially if it caused harm to the vault dwellers.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:05
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Clanpot Shake posted:Encountered a weird bug I'm hoping someone here knows how to fix. Anyone? Is there a way to turn off physics or something? Can't really progress with the brotherhood til I fix this.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:06
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Nuebot posted:A lot of the bethesda ones, like the gary vault, and the one you find valentine in. I mean maybe I missed some terminals that actually explained what they were doing in there but all I found were terminals saying how they wanted to just make everyone have a lovely life and that the staff shouldn't interfere with anyone, especially if it caused harm to the vault dwellers. The purpose of the vault you find Nick in was to see how rich and famous people would react when forced to live in" poor" and cramped conditions. It's probably one of the more reasonable vaults if you consider the Enclave's original plan for the vaults was to prepare for a trip to Mars.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:09
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I built a rather simple two-story building in my settlement, and I'm rather proud of pulling it off, I have no idea what I actually want to populate it with, aside from beds on the bottom level.  I trust that nothing you place (extra bars, Nuka Cola/Milk fridges, etc) your settlers interact with, right? I heard talk of the bar thing attracting settlers to hang out at the end of the day, but I question the validity of that.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:16
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Broken Cog posted:Nah, there are various family members and stuff that were replaced, so the Institute was definitely doing some shady stuff. Hancock's brother was replaced, for example. So that leads into my second theory about the institute is that they sometimes "recruit" people from the surface (basically kidnap them) and replace them with synths.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:17
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Nuebot posted:A lot of the bethesda ones, like the gary vault, and the one you find valentine in. I mean maybe I missed some terminals that actually explained what they were doing in there but all I found were terminals saying how they wanted to just make everyone have a lovely life and that the staff shouldn't interfere with anyone, especially if it caused harm to the vault dwellers. The Gary Vault : quote:the premise of the experiment was explained to study conflict for leadership and power in a vault. The first Overseer was known to have a genetic predisposition for a rare form of cancer that was expected to kill him within 40 months of the experiment's inception, and positions of authority in the vault went unassigned and discretion was given to the Overseer. The main power supply was also scheduled to malfunction after 240 months (20 years while the vault was planned to be sealed for 38), and the back-up power supply was intentionally insufficient to meet the vault's needs. On top of all this, the vault was given three times the normal armory stock and no entertainment recordings. As far as that goes it's fine and dandy. But the game never really explains why the cloning lab was included in the vault when it had no purpose towards its stated experiment goal. Nor is it ever explained why they cloned the same guy 50+ times. They mention the clones were all super hostile but not why someone thought it'd be a good idea to keep trying over and over and over. Vault 114 is definitely an odd duck. The stated premise is fairly straightforward - take the priviledged elite of society, the upper crust (AKA : Donald Trump and people like him) and remove the luxury, authority, and ease of life they'd become accustomed to and force them to endure a fairly spartan and almost impoverished existence. That much makes perfect sense since societal roles would GREATLY be altered in a post-apocalyptic world. Producers, especially of food, would become far more vital than stock brokers or real estate tycoons and the wall street execs would have to make some RADICAL adjustments. So far it's a legit experiment. What I don't understand about 114 is why they added in Soup Can Harry. Supposedly they were trying to monitor the resident's reactions to stress by having a mentally unstable Overseer but that seems like it would, if anything, tarnish the results from the previous goal. Seems like the vaults are designed with a specific, interesting goal in mind (Typically somehow involving human response to post-apocalyptic conditions/stimuli or physiological changes that would help adaptation after a nuclear war, EG: FEV, Radiation exposure, disease (And cure) exposure, cryogenic suspension to outlast the radiation, and so on) then someone higher up in Bethesda is saying "This is too boring all these vaults are the same let's spice things up and put a crazy homeless guy in charge of this one! And that other one, just make it all the same guy over and over again to throw the player for a loop!" and the guys making interesting, socially-viable experiment vaults have to sigh and try to come up with some kind of justification for the stupidity. khy fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 05:18
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MarshyMcFly posted:So that leads into my second theory about the institute is that they sometimes "recruit" people from the surface (basically kidnap them) and replace them with synths. nah they just straight up murder them most of the time you can see it ingame w/ the art vs. art encounter alongside the random settler synth (why would they recruit random rear end farmers) invasion there's also some institute quests revealing unsuspecting dudes to be synths that confirm they bodybag random dudes to replace because they're assholes edit: also hang out with x6 if you want to get a view of how much the institute are fuckheads, it's really funny how much of a straight rear end in a top hat he is despite his likes also being super good aligned Fereydun fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 05:20
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MarshyMcFly posted:So that leads into my second theory about the institute is that they sometimes "recruit" people from the surface (basically kidnap them) and replace them with synths. Personally I think that maybe a quarter of the disappearances are actually committed by the Institute/synths, and the majority of others involve super mutants/raiders/ghouls/etc. But thanks to sensationalism people are blaming a disproportionate number of disappearances on the Institute. That or Bethesda decided they wanted the bad guys in their game to have a bigger role and made them start actively being douches in order to motivate players against them.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:22
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khy posted:The Gary Vault : They locked a single dude in a vault with a cloning machine, vault Ted was not great at the science thing.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:23
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ColHannibal posted:They locked a single dude in a vault with a cloning machine, vault Ted was not great at the science thing. There was definitely more than one guy in there. At LEAST five people are known to have been there. 3 are listed in the Vault-Tec terminal in the Citadel. Brody Jones - First Overseer (The guy with the cancer that was only expected to live 40 months). Zachary K Jameson - Chief of Staff. Jerec Maddix - Chief of Security. Then there's "Dr Peterson" listed on a holodisk found in the vault who was injured by one of the Garies, and the original Gary himself who was the only person the clones weren't hostile to.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:28
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IIRC the twist of the Gary Vault was that the clones eventually became hostile to non-clones for whatever reason. It's a little weird, but (like I said before) Fallout 2 set the bar for "Almost every Vault has some hosed up experiment", and Bethesda just ran with it. I'll handle a Gary Clone Vault as long as we get a Vault 11 every once in a while.khy posted:What I don't understand about 114 is why they added in Soup Can Harry. Supposedly they were trying to monitor the resident's reactions to stress by having a mentally unstable Overseer but that seems like it would, if anything, tarnish the results from the previous goal. Soup Can Harry is the kind of folks the rich ignore at best (poor, mentally ill), and now he's their boss. It's like that scene in World War Z (the book) where it turns out a lady that was calling her retraining boss by her first name wasn't doing it to undermine the trainer's authority - she was doing it because her retraining boss used to be her maid. oh my god I made a their/there/they're typo MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 05:28
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MisterBibs posted:Soup Can Harry is the kind of folks the rich ignore at best (poor, mentally ill), and now he's there boss. That does make some sense. As I said before, societal roles would easily reverse after an apocalypse as many CEOs, Financiers, and other 'wealthy elites' would suddenly be vastly reduced in status compared to producers like farmers and mechanics. Actual material skills would be vastly more important and the whole point of Vault 114 was to see how those priviledged elite would handle the sudden change and loss in status that they'd experience after society crumbles.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:32
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MisterBibs posted:I built a rather simple two-story building in my settlement, and I'm rather proud of pulling it off, I have no idea what I actually want to populate it with, aside from beds on the bottom level. Fwiw, I built a one level building with a bar and some tables and chairs at the starlight drive-in and yea, after like 8-9 PM the place is loving packed with people milling around drinking smoking and looking for a seat. It's kinda neat.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:37
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chaosapiant posted:Fwiw, I built a one level building with a bar and some tables and chairs at the starlight drive-in and yea, after like 8-9 PM the place is loving packed with people milling around drinking smoking and looking for a seat. It's kinda neat. Are there any combos of items you used that you think work? Putting stools next to the bar? Random chairs next to random tables? I'm not doubting you, it just kinda blows my mind that I could plop down a chair/table combo and they'd use it.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:42
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khy posted:There's not a whole lot of 'comically evil' vaults. I'm going through the list here and the ones I can see that are 'comical evil' are mostly 3rd party stuff (Penny Arcade vaults more than anything). Were there any specifically you had in mind? Almost every vault in the 3d era is pretty evil. Since Bethesda took over, almost every vault has a cruel experimental manipulation, vault 101 was tame by comparison to all the others. My guess is Vault-Tec was socially engineering different societies partially because they figured different living conditions could create different societies, some of which would fare better than others in the post-apocalyptic wasteland. 101 is as close to a control group as you'll find in the 3d games, in the original the vault issues were mostly due to Vault-Tec incompetence and Fallout 2 was sometimes zany for the sake of zaniness.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:46
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MisterBibs posted:Are there any combos of items you used that you think work? Putting stools next to the bar? Random chairs next to random tables? I'm not doubting you, it just kinda blows my mind that I could plop down a chair/table combo and they'd use it. They will, my Starlight just has a dinner table and wooden chairs sitting on the asphalt with nothing else around and all the chairs are full in the evening. If you really want them to come in, though, building a "bar" out of the counter item and some stools isn't quite enough. You need to build the store labeled "food and drink" or whatever. The placard on it once you build it reads "Bar", put it in the bar next to your bar and they will use the bar and the bar.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:54
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Filthy Hans posted:Almost every vault in the 3d era is pretty evil. Since Bethesda took over, almost every vault has a cruel experimental manipulation, vault 101 was tame by comparison to all the others. My guess is Vault-Tec was socially engineering different societies partially because they figured different living conditions could create different societies, some of which would fare better than others in the post-apocalyptic wasteland. 101 is as close to a control group as you'll find in the 3d games, in the original the vault issues were mostly due to Vault-Tec incompetence and Fallout 2 was sometimes zany for the sake of zaniness. mystic pimp fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 06:01
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Filthy Hans posted:Almost every vault in the 3d era is pretty evil. Since Bethesda took over, almost every vault has a cruel experimental manipulation, vault 101 was tame by comparison to all the others. My guess is Vault-Tec was socially engineering different societies partially because they figured different living conditions could create different societies, some of which would fare better than others in the post-apocalyptic wasteland. 101 is as close to a control group as you'll find in the 3d games, in the original the vault issues were mostly due to Vault-Tec incompetence and Fallout 2 was sometimes zany for the sake of zaniness. Yeah, the one vault you find that is actually doing OK was only due to Vault-Tec sending apparently the only non-sociopath in their entire organization to run the place.
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Nov 26, 2015 06:02
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Filthy Hans posted:Almost every vault in the 3d era is pretty evil. Since Bethesda took over, almost every vault has a cruel experimental manipulation, vault 101 was tame by comparison to all the others. My guess is Vault-Tec was socially engineering different societies partially because they figured different living conditions could create different societies, some of which would fare better than others in the post-apocalyptic wasteland. 101 is as close to a control group as you'll find in the 3d games, in the original the vault issues were mostly due to Vault-Tec incompetence and Fallout 2 was sometimes zany for the sake of zaniness. FO1 only had four vaults, three of which were experiments. Vault 12 in particular was pretty cruel. Vault 13 was an experiment in prologed isolation and wouldn't open until 200 years had passed ( Compared to most vaults opening after 20-50 years). Vault 12 was an experiment to study radiation on people resulting in a massive vault full of ghouls by deliberately sabotaging the door Vault 15 was an experiment on creating a population which deliberately didn't share cultural or ideological similarities. End result of this were three of the big raider gangs becoming established (Vipers, Jackals, and Khans were all Vault 15 residents at first). The only vault in FO1 which WASN'T an experiment was the demonstration vault that the master took over. That one was just a demonstration vault, although when the war happened people DID take shelter and survive there. They eventually abandoned it.
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Nov 26, 2015 06:04
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And Fallout 2 introduced the control vault: Vault 8 that became Vault City. They've all been horrible experiments from day 1 and the only ones that weren't horrible experiments only existed as a comparison tool.
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Nov 26, 2015 06:09
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Vault 15 is also where the NCR came from right?
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Nov 26, 2015 06:11
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ToxicAcne posted:Vault 15 is also where the NCR came from right? Yup. Vault 15 was the source for the aforementioned vipers, jackals, khans, and a fourth group that left and settled Shady Sands (Which later became the NCR's seat of power).
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Nov 26, 2015 06:12
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If I'm remembering right, the whole "Vaults as experiments" was revealed in Fallout 2, yeah? In retrospect, I kind prefer my Vaults to just be bomb shelters, nothing more. None of this shady poo poo. I mean, they make for some memorable set-pieces sometimes, but it's still pretty cartoonish.
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Nov 26, 2015 06:16
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Jay Rust posted:it's still pretty cartoonish. What was the experiment with the vault you start in on FO3?
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Nov 26, 2015 06:20
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At what point can I take the sneak stuff off my armor and stay pretty invisible? I have four points in stealth so far and I've picked up a few of the stealth comics and wouldn't mind putting on some of the other upgrades
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Nov 26, 2015 06:21
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eSporks posted:What game do you think you are playing? A prolonged experiment to determine the validity of the statement "Tunnel snakes rule!"
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Nov 26, 2015 06:22
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Anyone playing this on Windows 10 able to get windows to record? Ive had it record other games IIRC, but Fallout 4 it just says theres nothing to record. Have tried various resolution options, disabling steam overlay, etc.
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Nov 26, 2015 06:22
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