Crawl 0.17: Corn enemies no longer popcorn

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl 0.17: Corn enemies no longer popcorn

Unimpressed: Feb 13, 2013

apple posted:

Speaking from personal experience, going from breaking the tab button with a side of invocations/evocations to blaster mage can be rough. Deep elves excel at blasting things to oblivion and are quite strong once you get past the RNG bump that usually is D:1 or D:2, but this is assuming you know which fights to pick which is something you rarely consider as a MiBe or similarly powerful combo.

The biggest thing is probably how much slower they play in comparison: instead of tabbing through fights you're probably going to be casting spells appropriate for the enemy (don't firestorm a quokka), you have to check that you're aiming your spell properly, you have to keep a safe distance from things a lot more often, you're going to have a lot more keybinds to use, etc. It's really fun and rewarding to get them going, but those games definitely last longer, so you gotta have some patience with them.

Yeah, I think the key idea I need to pick up is to just avoid some fights. I am pretty careful in the fights themselves, I position for least exposure, use distance, etc. But without a spell like mephitic cloud, once two yaks are next to me I'm pretty much dead if I don't use blink or tele and there aren't that many of those when you just start lair. I've died many times right at the entrance to lair after you go in. There's only one entrance, so I can't use one of the other two like on normal floors, and even if I kill something and run back up to heal, they're all waiting down there.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 00:29

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# ? May 17, 2024 21:57

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

PDA is super dope and I pretty much always use it when I can.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 01:10

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

There's a new bunch of changes (Formicid throwing increased, the addition of figurines of a ziggurat to summon an entrance - and a guaranteed one on Tomb 3), and so forth.

One of them is to make branch ends harder. Vaults:5, apparently, needed the change

code:

Vaults: Too many corridors to hide in. Widened hallways. Left loot and monsters the same.

I dunno about this one. Vaults:5 was scary enough, wasn't it?

# ? Nov 26, 2015 01:16

megane: Jun 20, 2008

That commit only changes two specific V:5 quadrants, not like, the outside corridors, if that's what you're thinking.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 01:21

Ramc: May 4, 2008; Bringing your thread to a screeching halt, guaranteed.

Haifisch posted:

Demigod: Blah blah Tm blah. Demigod apts are samey enough that you can try just about anything, so don't be afraid to try a something else if Tm isn't doing it for you.

I won a DgWn on the first try this tourney and can confirm that the Learndb is 100% right about the combo.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 01:26

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Prism posted:

There's a new bunch of changes (Formicid throwing increased, the addition of figurines of a ziggurat to summon an entrance - and a guaranteed one on Tomb 3), and so forth.

important note about zigfigs: they're the only way to enter zigs, now. found only on tomb:3 and zig:27. no more pan zigs.

this one was being talked about for some time. nice to see it go in!

# ? Nov 26, 2015 02:08

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

PleasingFungus posted:

important note about zigfigs: they're the only way to enter zigs, now. found only on tomb:3 and zig:27. no more pan zigs.

this one was being talked about for some time. nice to see it go in!

Wait, just to confirm, there is NOT one guaranteed anymore in Depths? I am looking at the commits and I don't see that. Just making sure I am clear on this is all.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 02:17

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Unimpressed posted:

Yeah, I think the key idea I need to pick up is to just avoid some fights. I am pretty careful in the fights themselves, I position for least exposure, use distance, etc. But without a spell like mephitic cloud, once two yaks are next to me I'm pretty much dead if I don't use blink or tele and there aren't that many of those when you just start lair. I've died many times right at the entrance to lair after you go in. There's only one entrance, so I can't use one of the other two like on normal floors, and even if I kill something and run back up to heal, they're all waiting down there.

Yeah, crawl encourages a lot of hybridizing for that reason, I like to pump a decent amount of points into dodging/fighting so I can tank at least a few hits while the enemy sits in a flame cloud or so I can cast sticky flame. The more fights you can macho-man through (with a real plan, of course), the more you can save scrolls of blinking/fear/etc. for emergencies.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 02:22

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

World Famous Whore posted:

Wait, just to confirm, there is NOT one guaranteed anymore in Depths? I am looking at the commits and I don't see that. Just making sure I am clear on this is all.

The way the commit is worded seems like one will still exist in Depths, since you can stack up to two of them. This implies that you will be able to get one in Depths (for potential xp/loot) and one in Tomb:3 (to ensure you can do the former without locking yourself out of megazigging). At least, I hope that's correct.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 02:30

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Whose side are you on, Okawaru :colbert:

# ? Nov 26, 2015 04:05

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

You have to make some sacrifices for beauty, after all. :v:

# ? Nov 26, 2015 04:06

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

He just wants you to be pretty.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 04:06

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

World Famous Whore posted:

Wait, just to confirm, there is NOT one guaranteed anymore in Depths? I am looking at the commits and I don't see that. Just making sure I am clear on this is all.

there's a zig entrance in depths and a zigfig in tomb.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 04:13

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

So, wait. Are zigfigs like an item you pick up and use? Or are they some sort of terrain object?

# ? Nov 26, 2015 04:15

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

IronicDongz posted:

So, wait. Are zigfigs like an item you pick up and use? Or are they some sort of terrain object?

They are an evokable object that makes a zig entrance.

So I guess it is even dumber to sacrifice evocations as a Ru follower now.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 04:17

Unimpressed: Feb 13, 2013

apple posted:

Whose side are you on, Okawaru

Why on earth would an XXX of Beauty have +Inv? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

# ? Nov 26, 2015 04:30

Unimpressed: Feb 13, 2013

apple posted:

Yeah, crawl encourages a lot of hybridizing for that reason, I like to pump a decent amount of points into dodging/fighting so I can tank at least a few hits while the enemy sits in a flame cloud or so I can cast sticky flame. The more fights you can macho-man through (with a real plan, of course), the more you can save scrolls of blinking/fear/etc. for emergencies.

Yeah, this might be my problem too, I'm always eager to get the next spell working with low failure, maybe I should stick it out longer with a simple L2 like searing ray and spend more on fighting/dodging before getting battlesphere (this on a Cj, but applies the same way to Sticky and Fireball with FE).

# ? Nov 26, 2015 04:32

rchandra: Apr 30, 2013

Unimpressed posted:

Why on earth would an XXX of Beauty have +Inv? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Sometimes all you can do is hide that ugly.

Not My Leg posted:

I got super burnt out after losing my 3-streak and kind of just did stupid things after that.

I really don't like the current streak points system, it makes super-careful play so pointless after you lose what's likely to be a best streak.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 05:13

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Unimpressed posted:

Why on earth would an XXX of Beauty have +Inv? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Its a very philosophical item.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 05:20

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Prism posted:

So I guess it is even dumber to sacrifice evocations as a Ru follower now.

that particular interaction is probably going to be a shortlived unfeature, fwiw.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 05:23

Brannock: Feb 9, 2006; by exmarx; Fallen Rib

PleasingFungus posted:

that particular interaction is probably going to be a shortlived unfeature, fwiw.

Has there been any progress on the long-discussed splitting of consumables into tactical and strategical categories?

# ? Nov 26, 2015 05:34

Angry Diplomat: Nov 7, 2009; Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Fhqwhgads posted:

After complaining about the floorgod being stingy

Speaking of stingy floorgods, my DsBe just found and ID'ed his first heal wounds potion

on D:15

# ? Nov 26, 2015 06:35

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Oh god I have a purple eating problem I just can't stop. Have a perfectly serviceable gargoyle fighter who doesn't even need to eat purple run into a bunch of ugly things on D9. Got:
rC++
AC+2 (yellow scale)
Spit poison
Rage 1
"occasionally teleported to nearby monsters" (which I've never had so not sure what it'll do)

I need an intervention

# ? Nov 26, 2015 07:16

megane: Jun 20, 2008

Scaramouche posted:

"occasionally teleported to nearby monsters" (which I've never had so not sure what it'll do)

It's the new version of teleportitis. The difference is that if it rolls a teleport that would put you in a place with no monsters, instead it just doesn't do anything.

e: Also it rolls slightly more often than old teleportitis I think.

megane fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Nov 26, 2015

# ? Nov 26, 2015 07:26

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Yeah some continued play means it's basically happy fun time all the time. Walking somewhere with no monsters (e.g. because you are healing maybe?), zap now you're in the monsters. Even though this gargoyle is already AC40 I'm going to hold off on Orc 4 since I don't want to be teleported into a crowd of orc high priests/generals, he says presciently. I'm going to do Lair it's "safer"

edit-thank goodness I found a mace of crushing +11

double edit-oh god it transported me into an oklob/slime vault

triple edit-picked up regen out of self defense. This is entirely different, it feels like the game is more out to get you than usual

Scaramouche fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Nov 26, 2015

# ? Nov 26, 2015 07:46

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

Glad to see an updated Pakellas. Hope they can make it to trunk this time. I am liking the changes from the .16 version though once again all I am really doing is abusing the ever loving poo poo out of Quick Charge. Only got the Barnacled and the Gossamer rune so far and:

code:

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Invok: Quick Charge      |       |       |       |     5 |     3 |     6 |     6 ||    20
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     5 |    33 |    27 |    69 |    40 ||   174
       Rod               |       |       |       |     3 |   109 |   207 |   167 ||   486

EDIT: Also really like the new Merfolk (and the one Naga Mage guarding Depths entrance) tiles I seen.

World Famous W fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Nov 26, 2015

# ? Nov 26, 2015 09:32

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Scaramouche posted:

"occasionally teleported to nearby monsters" (which I've never had so not sure what it'll do)

It's really bad and will get you killed or at the very least lead to way more panic situations than normal.

Only solution is to eat more purple and mutate the mutations away!

# ? Nov 26, 2015 15:46

Fhqwhgads: Jul 18, 2003; I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THIS GAME WHO GETS LAID

I'm taking Chei to heart and playing this guy really slowly. My last Cheibro to 15 rune was done in 96.5k turns, and this guy still only has 3 runes and is at 139k turns. But it's so cathartic to just blow up whatever enters LOS immediately. I've cleared out everything except extended/Zot and still no level 9 spells. Think it's time to dive into the Depths Zig in hopes for some better equipment/books?

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Fhqwhgads/Fhqwhgads.txt

# ? Nov 26, 2015 15:48

eyebrow: Aug 17, 2008

Fhqwhgads posted:

I'm taking Chei to heart and playing this guy really slowly. My last Cheibro to 15 rune was done in 96.5k turns, and this guy still only has 3 runes and is at 139k turns. But it's so cathartic to just blow up whatever enters LOS immediately. I've cleared out everything except extended/Zot and still no level 9 spells. Think it's time to dive into the Depths Zig in hopes for some better equipment/books?

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Fhqwhgads/Fhqwhgads.txt

Crypt might have something and would be less risky.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 16:12

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Brannock posted:

Has there been any progress on the long-discussed splitting of consumables into tactical and strategical categories?

No, sorry.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 16:39

Ramc: May 4, 2008; Bringing your thread to a screeching halt, guaranteed.

PleasingFungus posted:

No, sorry.

Caustic Shrikes should have their tiles changed to turkeys for the day. Make it happen, Dev.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 16:44

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Ramc posted:

Caustic Shrikes should have their tiles changed to turkeys for the day. Make it happen, Dev.

Agreed. However, Crawl is an Australian game, so you might have to wait a few months.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 17:04

Zaodai: May 23, 2009; Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.

Wouldn't it just get removed immediately anyway? I remember seeing someone say they removed the Halloween stuff because it made crawl different sometimes.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 17:06

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Functionally different during that time. This is more of a visual effect that doesn't affect gameplay.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 17:11

Pinechild: Sep 14, 2011

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Pinechild/Pinechild.txt

code:

Pinechild the Tortoise (Vine Stalker Assassin)     Turns: 62987, Time: 08:50:51

Health: 152/152    AC: 30    Str: 24    XL:     26   Next: 49%
Magic:  36/36      EV: 33    Int: 14    God:    Makhleb [******]
Gold:   4586       SH: 18    Dex: 29    Spells: 3 memorised, 31 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     a - +5 captain's cutlass {speed, disarm}
rCold  + + .     Clarity  +     z - +1 swamp dragon armour
rNeg   . . .     SustAt   .     E - +2 shield {rC+}
rPois  +         Gourm    .     c - +4 helmet of Muhiuz {rF+ rC+}
rElec  +         Spirit   +     u - +1 cloak {MR+}
rCorr  .         Warding  .     W - +3 pair of gloves of Uwock {Regen+}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     Y - +2 pair of boots {run}
MR     ++++.                    C - amulet "Peariqy" {Regen+ Str+4 Int-4 Slay+3}
Stlth  ++++++....               i - ring "Ockudoty" {rElec EV+3 Str+5 Int+3}
                                o - ring of the Villain {Int+4 Dex+2 Stlth+}

@: repel missiles, quick, incredibly resistant to hostile enchantments, very
stealthy
A: claws 1, fangs 3, repulsion field 1, blurry vision 1, clarity, regeneration
3, robust 2, spit poison 1, magic shield, antimagic bite, no device heal 3, rot
immunity
a: Spit Poison, Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major Destruction,
Greater Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion
}: 4/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, silver, abyssal

Any advice on this guy would be appreciated! I'm not happy with my armour situation, but there's a pearl dragon hide in Elf somewhere that I could enchant up (also an artifact PDA, but that has -Cast)--would that be worth it? I'm attempting to learn Statue Form for possible Tomb/Extended, but despite how much of a blender I am I have doubts about how survivable that would be. I think I saw Haste in a book somewhere, but I'm already attacking at 0.3AUT so I don't know if it's worth the skill investment. Also, I have zero idea about which jewelry I should be wearing.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 17:25

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

It's bed time for me, so I can't give a complete answer, but the short version is that PDA is worth it with your stats full stop. Whether the artefact is worth it depends on what other stuff it has on it. It probably isn't, haste is really good however fast you're already attacking. Statue form probably isn't worth it unless you're an unarmed character, however. Especially with a full slots species wearing PDA. But there are lots of other mid level utility spells that are really good, depending on what you've found.

You've got some really nice jewellery and you basically can't go wrong with any of it. Switch as needed. If I recall correctly, VS really likes having str and dex up to a total of 50ish to guarantee bites, but int will help with hybridization so all stats are good for you.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 17:36

rchandra: Apr 30, 2013

Get Haste, get Fighting, probably enchant the PDA. No reason you can't do extended, if you have to melee a hell/pan lord use a potion of might.

I wouldn't have advised spending tons of experience learning statueform to meld all your good armour, but here you are (it's a lot better when you already had reasons to be in earth and/or tmut)

Mish over Villain, swapping in the rF/Str ring as needed.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 17:37

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

rchandra posted:

Get Haste, get Fighting, probably enchant the PDA. No reason you can't do extended, if you have to melee a hell/pan lord use a potion of might.

I wouldn't have advised spending tons of experience learning statueform to meld all your good armour, but here you are (it's a lot better when you already had reasons to be in earth and/or tmut)

Mish over Villain, swapping in the rF/Str ring as needed.

Is there a cap on the amount of benefit haste can provide? Like, if you've maxed unarmed and switch to blade hands and you cover ground quickly and have boots of running - would haste not provide as much a boost as someone without these things?

# ? Nov 26, 2015 17:46

rchandra: Apr 30, 2013

FulsomFrank posted:

Is there a cap on the amount of benefit haste can provide? Like, if you've maxed unarmed and switch to blade hands and you cover ground quickly and have boots of running - would haste not provide as much a boost as someone without these things?

There was an absolute cap on attack speed of 0.2 turns, not sure if that's still in - so Finesse with a quick blade might not work as well as you'd like, but Haste still will. None of the other things will matter - haste basically always makes you at least 1.5x the fighter you were.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 17:50

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# ? May 17, 2024 21:57

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Your rings are pretty much interchangeable, currently. And the alternatives you're holding aren't particularly "need to wear" either.

Not sure why you want Statue Form when you're basically the epitome of speed. You'll gain defenses, maybe, but ALL actions now take 1.5 more time and the melding takes away the bonuses given by your gloves, body armour and boots. People go that route primarily when they're swinging unarmed or a massive gently caress-off weapon to take advantage of the enormous bonus to damage (3 + str/3 bonus UC damage and 50% increase, respectively) or their armour slots are already limited. With the cutlass, you're going to be swinging 0.5 at 10.5 instead of 0.3 at 7 normally; you're basically exchanging a better chance of piercing AC for less overall damage. If you're worried about Torment, stack rN to reduce it down to only 35% of your current health. If you want to make that Transmutation/Earth Magic feel less of a loss, consider Necromutation (no melding, no potion drinking doesn't bother you as much beyond removing confusion, torment resistance) and LRD/Shatter instead!

Don't think of Haste as just "MAKES ATTACKS FASTER!" :black101:

It also makes your movement faster whether that's in retreat or towards a particularly bothersome enemy. Chucking/Evoking things at enemies will also benefit.

The others have also made good suggestions.

# ? Nov 26, 2015 17:51

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