Peztopiary posted:That someone should absolutely be you. Are lots of British worried about Satanism? It would seem like the whole CoE thing would have more or less destroyed belief in the supernu. For the most part I would argue that there isn't that much of a concern about Satanism, however there are small outbursts of concern that come about every couple of years when the Daily Mail finds itself low on copy and funny season kicks in. That said there are lots of pagan festivals hiding in plain sight in the UK, the wee town I stay in now has a fertility festival every year complete with the burning of a wicker woman, and a second festival where the center piece is a boat being burnt on the beach to protect the local fishermen. There remains a lot of folk lore associated with the supernatural in the UK, from the hills in Scotland where Demons are believed to walk two steps behind ramblers to all the devils activities in Cornwall where there are places literally called Hell Mouth and Hell Stone. Those concerned about the threat of Satanism here are in the minority, but a fair share of the conspiracy theories you find have a Satanic bent. You have to remember here that the stories of a shadowy cabal of pedophiles in influential positions actually turned out to have some truth to it, and this has fuelled the more extreme conspiracy theorists to start to become more open with their ideas.
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Nov 26, 2015 13:38
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QuarkJets posted:obama lied people died https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bdr_2IAJWU
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Nov 26, 2015 14:23
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Skinty McEdger posted:You have to remember here that the stories of a shadowy cabal of pedophiles in influential positions actually turned out to have some truth to it, and this has fuelled the more extreme conspiracy theorists to start to become more open with their ideas. Only some truth? That's putting it rather mildly, isn't it?
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Nov 26, 2015 15:19
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Skinty McEdger posted:For the most part I would argue that there isn't that much of a concern about Satanism, however there are small outbursts of concern that come about every couple of years when the Daily Mail finds itself low on copy and funny season kicks in. That said there are lots of pagan festivals hiding in plain sight in the UK, the wee town I stay in now has a fertility festival every year complete with the burning of a wicker woman, and a second festival where the center piece is a boat being burnt on the beach to protect the local fishermen. There remains a lot of folk lore associated with the supernatural in the UK, from the hills in Scotland where Demons are believed to walk two steps behind ramblers to all the devils activities in Cornwall where there are places literally called Hell Mouth and Hell Stone. Some of the crazy people saying things about satanic conspiracies said things about Jimmy Saville and group homes and other people who are now known to have been molesters. The truth was out there and got mixed up with crazy stories, either because some of the victims were unwell or because they were just marginalized people who moved in the same circles as the David Icke-type people.
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Nov 26, 2015 17:17
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The Satanic Panic of the 80s in the US heavily implied that child molestation was a major part of it. It's not hard to believe that idea exists in the UK and when revelations about Saville and others came out, those people started figuring that yes, there are Satanic Cults at the top of the British establishment.
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Nov 26, 2015 20:16
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QuarkJets posted:obama lied people died Obama did 9/11 to distract people from how badly he handled Katrina.
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Nov 26, 2015 20:25
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zeal posted:Only some truth? That's putting it rather mildly, isn't it? Everything was true except the cabal bit. They seem pretty disorganized about their shadowy pedophilia.
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Nov 26, 2015 20:27
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twistedmentat posted:The Satanic Panic of the 80s in the US heavily implied that child molestation was a major part of it. It's not hard to believe that idea exists in the UK and when revelations about Saville and others came out, those people started figuring that yes, there are Satanic Cults at the top of the British establishment. This was years before the story broke. Yes, it was likely because of the famous molesters angle that the satanic panic nutters picked it up, but the important thing is that these people had a garbled version of the truth decades before it was documented. Jon Ronson wrote about it in his book about Icke.
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Nov 26, 2015 20:36
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One of the theories about Icke himself is that the episodes which caused him to go off the rails into crazy town were actually engineered by powerful people who didn't want the truth of the molestation rings to come out. He had been talking about them long before his breakdown, and had moved in the same circles as Saville and his ilk.
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Nov 26, 2015 20:47
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Ashcans posted:Obama did 9/11 to distract people from how badly he handled Katrina. 9/11 was a rehearsal orchestrated by Obama for the real travesty of our generation: Benghazi. It turns out that Obama is a huge EVE Online player and he wanted to take out Vilerat in order to hurt Goonswarm
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Nov 26, 2015 23:19
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Vulture posted:hey guys. i heard a undergroun nuclear bomb brought down the twin towers. is this true??? tia. Haven't you heard of reading the last page? Ah but if you type in baby style it means you need to spoon fed, so open up, here comes the http://postimg.org/image/vr7ixfi7f/ http://postimg.org/image/ca3g1ald5/ Deep Thought fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Nov 27, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 23:52
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QuarkJets posted:9/11 was a rehearsal orchestrated by Obama for the real travesty of our generation: Benghazi. It turns out that Obama is a huge EVE Online player and he wanted to take out Vilerat in order to hurt Goonswarm Who are, of course, also a CIA front.
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Nov 27, 2015 02:37
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Our shadowy clandestine organizations are rife with infighting.
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Nov 27, 2015 05:39
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blowfish posted:Who are, of course, also a CIA front. Well yeah, that's why Obama created ISIS
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Nov 27, 2015 06:11
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i know some people who were really into "the zeitgeist movement" and now some of them are really into fighting "science denialism" as new atheists and others go to every music festival and have white people dreads #blessthismess
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Nov 27, 2015 06:16
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but actually zeitgeist part 3 features some totally sick interviews w/ Robert Sapolsky and Gábor Máté and its probably one of the better internet-conspiracy-politics type movies ever made
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Nov 27, 2015 06:19
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Skinty McEdger posted:One of the theories about Icke himself is that the episodes which caused him to go off the rails into crazy town were actually engineered by powerful people who didn't want the truth of the molestation rings to come out. He had been talking about them long before his breakdown, and had moved in the same circles as Saville and his ilk. This sounds pretty interesting, do you have any links about it?
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Nov 27, 2015 07:08
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COOLGUY TRUE posted:i know some people who were really into "the zeitgeist movement" and now some of them are really into fighting "science denialism" as new atheists and others go to every music festival and have white people dreads Dare I ask what they think constitutes "science denialism"? 
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Nov 27, 2015 09:00
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Tias posted:Dare I ask what they think constitutes "science denialism"? Supporting renewable energy sources over nuclear and being in favor of GMO labeling laws, usually.
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Nov 27, 2015 09:14
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Theris posted:What's the CTs' response to "If they have enough credible intelligence to know they're going to need 750 body bags on Friday, why don't they just close the mall that day?" If I was to guess, as a frequent adventurer into the darker recesses of internet conspiracy forums, I would say that the response would be "They aren't ordering the body bags because they have information that someone else is going to kill 750 people, they are ordering them because they are going to kill 750 people." These sort of things are my favourite type of CT. I love it when the theorists turn some relatively minor local event or place into a conspiracy. In this case that the management of the Bluewater mall in Essex are up to their eyeballs in the illuminati. Another recent examples would be the Walmart that closed during Jade Helm which had local "activitists" camped outside watching it for signs of an invading UN army setting up HQ there. That Walmart has since finished the plumbing work it needed and reopened. And the infamous Bin Lorry Hoax in Glasgow. A horrible event where an out of control bin lorry killed some people. This was latched onto as a hoax a'la Sandy Hook. The whole event was staged and never happened. Quite why the Illuminati are now resorting to faking a garbage truck crash in Glasgow I never got a clear answer on. The driver had the shittiest job in the illuminati though, 20 years as a bin man before being told he'd have to run over a kid. I reckon he'd have preferred the Goldman Sachs job.
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Nov 27, 2015 14:08
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katlington posted:This sounds pretty interesting, do you have any links about it? There is a quite lengthy breakdown of Ickes claims and the coverage of it at http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/2015/06/01/the-savile-affair-did-david-icke-really-blow-the-whistle-on-jimmy-savile/. The independent had good coverage of it a few years ago, but I can't find the original article. The problem is that it's difficult to find coverage of his claims before his breakdown and most of the allegations he made afterwards were all wrapped up in satanic conspiracy theory. Icke's book "The Biggest Secret" deals with the pedophile ring at length, but doesn't name Savile, instead focusing on Ted Heath (and a lot of the allegations he makes there get overshadowed by his discussions of child sacrifices). The government has just announced a full independent investigation into the allegations of a pedophile ring involving high profile and historical politicians, so this is all about to get a lot more attention and coverage which is often the time when the conspiracy theorists really come out of the wood work. Whatever the investigation discovers it's likely it won't be enough for the CT crowd and theres likely to be a new counter narrative soon. Illuminti posted:If I was to guess, as a frequent adventurer into the darker recesses of internet conspiracy forums, I would say that the response would be "They aren't ordering the body bags because they have information that someone else is going to kill 750 people, they are ordering them because they are going to kill 750 people." One of the reasons the CT's really seem to keep coming back to Bluewater is all to do with the name of the mall. In various Illumaniti related texts makes references to the "Blue Water lilly" of ancient Egypt which was a symbol of death and rebirth. As a result there are some who are convinced there is something nefarious going on there.
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Nov 27, 2015 14:39
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boom boom boom posted:Supporting renewable energy sources over nuclear and being in favor of GMO labeling laws, usually. GMO labeling laws are pretty much crap, though. It's getting all products on the shelves to have a label purely for the purpose of helping the marketing of a few of their competitors, implying that they are not as healthy despite absolutely no scientific evidence of that. Like, hundreds of years ago people were scared that iron plows would poison the soil and produce toxic crops. Imagine if they had corporate brands and marketing back then, and some of those brands decided to start capitalizing on that fear and promote that their products were iron-plow free. Kinda ridiculous, right? But then imagine if they started massive campaigns to legally require every other produce to put on a label saying that it was grown in iron plow fields. It's legally-mandating some companies' marketing and feeding into the populations' false fears.
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Nov 27, 2015 14:46
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boom boom boom posted:Supporting renewable energy sources over nuclear and being in favor of GMO labeling laws, usually. They're not wrong.
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Nov 27, 2015 15:12
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e_angst posted:GMO labeling laws are pretty much crap, though. It's getting all products on the shelves to have a label purely for the purpose of helping the marketing of a few of their competitors, implying that they are not as healthy despite absolutely no scientific evidence of that. Food labelling laws in general are hilariously arbitrary and hosed up. Not to say that companies shouldn't have to label stuff, but anyone who thinks that feel-good labels like fair trade, organic, GMO free etc are anything but gimmicks is delusional.
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Nov 27, 2015 15:18
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The Larch posted:They're not wrong. True on both counts 
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Nov 27, 2015 15:28
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It's also dumb because we've been using selective breeding to genetically modify our food ever since we figured out agriculture. Nothing we cultivate grows wild and it's been that way for...I don't know, a few thousand years. Yes it's theoretically possible that you could genetically engineer up some awful things but that doesn't mean GMOs are inherently terrible. You can kill somebody with a hammer if you really want to. Does that make hammers a terrible thing that must be banned? Sure let's put some regulations down on what you can and can't do with genetic modification and be careful with it so we don't accidentally gently caress something up but refuse to use it entirely or label it like it's evil? That's just silly. But then if memory serves there is also a huge overlap between these people and people who think vaccines are terrible.
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Nov 27, 2015 15:53
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Skinty McEdger posted:There is a quite lengthy breakdown of Ickes claims and the coverage of it at http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/2015/06/01/the-savile-affair-did-david-icke-really-blow-the-whistle-on-jimmy-savile/. The independent had good coverage of it a few years ago, but I can't find the original article. The problem is that it's difficult to find coverage of his claims before his breakdown and most of the allegations he made afterwards were all wrapped up in satanic conspiracy theory. Icke's book "The Biggest Secret" deals with the pedophile ring at length, but doesn't name Savile, instead focusing on Ted Heath (and a lot of the allegations he makes there get overshadowed by his discussions of child sacrifices). One thing I've never seen any evidence for is the bloodlines thing. Icke claims all these family trees that you can trace every person of any importance through, from the Rothchilds (I think he claims Hitler's real dad was a Rothschild) to Thatcher to Pol Pot to bizarrely Kris Kristopherson, who is apparently a reptilian. I've never found these family trees reproduced anywhere though, even in his books. Most of the conspiracy world, especially on the internet, is an echo chamber of people citing their sources as someone else who is citing another CT citing someone else in a giant ouroborus. Presumably there is someone with a mental illness somewhere just making poo poo up, people mistake mental illness for new thinking and off we go. It'd be great to find one conspiracy from the internet age and trace it back to see where it started. That might lead to it's own mental illness though
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Nov 27, 2015 16:20
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Helen Highwater posted:Food labelling laws in general are hilariously arbitrary and hosed up. Not to say that companies shouldn't have to label stuff, but anyone who thinks that feel-good labels like fair trade, organic, GMO free etc are anything but gimmicks is delusional. At least "fair trade", "organic" and "gmo free" are voluntary labels so that people who really insist on thinking those things are better know where to go. Also their existence is what disproves the argument for GMO labeling that it's needed for "consumer choice!!!" since a consumer who doesn't want GMO already knows that both "organic" and "gmo free" labeled stuff don't have GMO.
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Nov 27, 2015 16:26
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Illuminti posted:One thing I've never seen any evidence for is the bloodlines thing. Icke claims all these family trees that you can trace every person of any importance through, from the Rothchilds (I think he claims Hitler's real dad was a Rothschild) to Thatcher to Pol Pot to bizarrely Kris Kristopherson, who is apparently a reptilian. I've never found these family trees reproduced anywhere though, even in his books. Most of the conspiracy world, especially on the internet, is an echo chamber of people citing their sources as someone else who is citing another CT citing someone else in a giant ouroborus. Presumably there is someone with a mental illness somewhere just making poo poo up, people mistake mental illness for new thinking and off we go. Well to a certain degree the wealthy and powerful tend to be descendants of wealthy and powerful people just because of what "I have a poo poo load of money" lets you do. The Rothschilds show up a lot (and this is where "Red Shield" comes from, by the way) because they're descended from medieval nobility. They were actual nobles that transitioned into wealth, banking, and business. They're obscenely wealthy but also kind of insular. Pretty sure they're also Jewish. While it's safe to assume that members of the family probably have issues with greed as nobody gets that rich without greed being involved somewhere there isn't really a ton of evidence of the Rothschilds being a bunch of lizard people secretly controlling the world. Even so a wealthy, old, Jewish with many fingers in many pies is going to get accused of being the secret hand behind everything.
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Nov 27, 2015 17:16
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The Larch posted:They're not wrong. Please don't be that guy. All power sources have downsides, and we've yet to solve the ones in nuclear power.
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Nov 27, 2015 17:22
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Tias posted:Please don't be that guy. All power sources have downsides, and we've yet to solve the ones in nuclear power. Uh what downsides would those be? That safely building them is expensive and a filthy coal plant that will ruin the surrounding landscape as soon as you turn it on is way cheaper, and a marginally less deadly than coal natural gas plant doesn't cost much more than the coal?
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Nov 27, 2015 17:39
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fishmech posted:Uh what downsides would those be? That safely building them is expensive and a filthy coal plant that will ruin the surrounding landscape as soon as you turn it on is way cheaper, and a marginally less deadly than coal natural gas plant doesn't cost much more than the coal? something something waste, which is a solved problem in any country that is interested in a solution and has found a place that is both geologically stable and not right under a bunch of rich people homes (i.e. Sweden and soon Finland, not Germany or the UK).
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Nov 27, 2015 17:52
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fishmech posted:Uh what downsides would those be? That safely building them is expensive and a filthy coal plant that will ruin the surrounding landscape as soon as you turn it on is way cheaper, and a marginally less deadly than coal natural gas plant doesn't cost much more than the coal? blowfish posted:something something waste, which is a solved problem in any country that is interested in a solution and has found a place that is both geologically stable and not right under a bunch of rich people homes (i.e. Sweden and soon Finland, not Germany or the UK). Yeah, in a perfect world that would be a solved problem, but we somehow can't stop plants loving it up. You're using utopian thinking, same as conspiracy nuts.
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Nov 27, 2015 18:31
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Tias posted:Yeah, in a perfect world that would be a solved problem, but we somehow can't stop plants loving it up. Apparently France is a perfect world.
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Nov 27, 2015 18:36
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computer parts posted:Apparently France is a perfect world. The world is not a perfect world. One meltdown is one too many, and yet they keep coming.
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Nov 27, 2015 19:22
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Tias posted:The world is not a perfect world. One meltdown is one too many, and yet they keep coming. And as we all know, only nuclear power plants suffer failures and if other plants had failures they certainly wouldn't spill tons of toxic water/ash/etc in to the environment. Better not use nuclear power then because it's not perfect. 
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Nov 27, 2015 19:32
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Tias posted:The world is not a perfect world. One meltdown is one too many, and yet they keep coming. You'll have to fill me in about all the meltdowns France is having.
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Nov 27, 2015 19:32
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Tias posted:The world is not a perfect world. One meltdown is one too many, and yet they keep coming. But a contained meltdown like 3 Mile Island lets out less radiation then coal plants do normally. There are risks in all things, but at least atomic power only has this risk when things go wrong.
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Nov 27, 2015 19:34
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computer parts posted:Apparently France is a perfect world. Ignoring a problem isn't solving it, just like the us is ignoring both all the death and harm that coal causes AND the problem of just piling nuclear waste up in all our reactors because there's nowhere to put it.
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Nov 27, 2015 19:35
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That relative scariness thing is facinating. Death by radiation is apparently hundreds of times worse that death by traffic accident for instance. At least we as a society is willing to spend hundreds of times more to prevent one death by radiation than we are to prevent one death on the roads. Or by any other kind of energy production. E: OK, edumacation time. Todays bias: illusion of control. If we can imagine some contrived scenario that lets us escape, then a risk is percived as less scary even if we know it's more likely. It basically kicks in the "but it wouldn't happen to me"-mechanism. Imagining such scenarios is hard to do for silent invisible killers like radiation or for being trapped on a plunging airplane, but much easier for a car crash (I'm a good driver, I could avoid that truck) or a flood from a burst hydroelectric dam (I could run to high ground). This explains (some of) the difference in percived risk even when people are informed of the actual statistical risk. Caconym fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Nov 27, 2015 |
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Nov 27, 2015 19:37
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