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Ehh, it just makes me think of how excommunication worked in good old M:TW2, because obviously you were less constrained there on warring for poo poo and the pope was used to dick you over if you were taking on too many christian rulers as opposed to heathens. So having him on your good side was more important, or rather, controlling him. So you could buy cardinal votes from other dudes with all sorts of promises and whatnot. And the pact system doesn't seem to be improving that at all really.
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Nov 27, 2015 18:14
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The pact system seems to be more about steering alliances toward rulers of roughly equal strength, rather than a weak ruler making a marriage alliance with a stronger one and then taking advantage of it to attack his neighbors, while the stronger ruler gets basically gently caress-all for his trouble. The AI was always retarded about accepting such alliances (why in the flying gently caress would the Byzantine Basileus marry his daughter to some duke in Hungary?) so this appears to be Paradox's way of addressing that. I assume that after the patch the Basileus will still let his daughter marry your son but he'll refuse to back up your wars, as he should.
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Nov 27, 2015 18:28
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Shame that the "no github links" rule on pdox forums is hurting players more than pirates. We got modders in China unable to upload their content because they aren't allowed access to the allowed upload websites. 
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Nov 27, 2015 19:25
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lol the tutorial lp thread got archived since my last update on getting started as a viking. whoops. i'll consolidate these here because i'm gonna finish the drat thing. The Viking Age Begins, Part 1: Introduction (769-783) The Viking Age Begins: Part 2: More like Skjoldumb (783-791) The Viking Age Begins, Part 3: Ragnarr never got a chance (792-796)
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Nov 27, 2015 19:56
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So I randomly decided to play as Khiva. It's fun. I built a new city in a province on the silk road because I figured it could help me maximize income from the trade since cities seem to make the most money. Once the city was finished, it says it's the wrong kind of holding now?
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Nov 27, 2015 20:43
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Minenfeld! posted:So I randomly decided to play as Khiva. It's fun. I built a new city in a province on the silk road because I figured it could help me maximize income from the trade since cities seem to make the most money. Once the city was finished, it says it's the wrong kind of holding now? That means that it's the wrong kind of holding for you to personally hold. Ie you'll get this if you're feudal or iqta and have a city as part of your personal holdings. If you want to get rid of the penalty just hand it off to a new vassal who'll report (and give his taxes) right to you.
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Nov 27, 2015 21:01
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Minenfeld! posted:So I randomly decided to play as Khiva. It's fun. I built a new city in a province on the silk road because I figured it could help me maximize income from the trade since cities seem to make the most money. Once the city was finished, it says it's the wrong kind of holding now? As a feudal, non-Muslim ruler, you are only ostensibly supposed to be ruling castle holdings. City and Temple holdings are not your purview, so you're meant to hand them off to other people to run them for you. Income and levies are heavily penalized for any wrong holdings (though you may find it still worth it if you have a good enough Steward or something). If you're a Merchant Republic you can hold cities without penalties, and if you're a Muslim you can hold temples without penalties, and if you're a Muslim Patrician you can hold all three. Anyway, you can give it to a random courtier seeing as it would just be a barony, or give it to a nephew or something. Or just right click on the holding's picture when you select the province and you can choose to auto-generate someone and give it to them. Me I just edit the defines.txt so the wrong holding penalty is much lower because I don't think losing a full three quarters of the income and troops is reasonable, but I understand why it's the way it is and that I'm unbalancing things by doing this :p
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Nov 27, 2015 21:03
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I was wondering if anyone would be willing to provide some generic mid-game advice for a non-DLC player. I've long since conquered Ireland, and have begun making a slow push into Scotland. Taking over Ireland was pretty simple. I'd fabricate a claim, form an alliance with a king, then take the county. Wash, rinse, repeat until I'm King of Eire and have all the counties under my control. Things have started to get more complicated though. My vassals seem more aggressive and more difficult to please. I tried to keep a decent balance of power by only handing off one duchy and one county per land-holding character. I wasn't paying attention though, so when one of my dukes wives became a usurper of another duchy in my kingdom, they ended up with an heir with two duchies. I haven't been able to implement any workable schemes to get those duchies into my dynasty. I tried to keep the same thing from happening again in the future by implementing Medium Crown Authority, but that pissed off the vassals so bad they factionalized faster than I could say "blackmail" and I had to concede the law. On top of that, one of my indirect vassals is now the King of Scotland. I guess at some point he married a woman with a claim in Scotland and then his liege (my direct vassal) pushed the claim on her behalf! I didn't even know they could do that. Overall, nothing too terrible has actually happened yet. I had one minor revolt that was pretty easy to put down and otherwise my expansion continues, albeit a bit slower than when I was a Petty king. But it just sort of feels like things are slowly getting out of hand and I'm concerned if I don't start interfacing with some mechanic or strategy that I'm currently unaware of, all my hard work is gonna fall to pieces.
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Nov 27, 2015 21:51
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Volkerball posted:lol the tutorial lp thread got archived since my last update on getting started as a viking. whoops. i'll consolidate these here because i'm gonna finish the drat thing. One thing I'd add to your last update: You mention how if you need to generate piety, the best way is county conquests. That's true, but you should also raid that county first, so you can get the extra 1% MA for raiding a church, which then becomes 2% MA once you do a county conquest on it. Plus, you get a lot of extra cash and a chunk of piety for burning down the church before you conquer it. Even for counties without a church, burning it down before you conquer it gives you that extra little bit of cash from the tribe.
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Nov 27, 2015 22:51
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GlitchThief posted:I was wondering if anyone would be willing to provide some generic mid-game advice for a non-DLC player. I've long since conquered Ireland, and have begun making a slow push into Scotland. The main thing is to do everything you can to avoid having vassals with the Ambitious trait. This is a constant struggle since the AI is programmed to seek out Ambitious tutors for their kids (as very well they should, since Ambitious is the single best trait in the game). Especially early on when your number of direct vassals is still small, I prefer doing this the direct way: having a couple Content people around my court and having my direct vassals' heirs educated by them. But if said vassal hates your guts he'll refuse to let you pick a tutor for his kid, and if he's Ambitious he probably hates your guts. So if a vassal is powerful, Ambitious and hates you, the next thing is to try to improve his opinion of you. That would include: * Giving him an honorary title (+10 or +15 opinion) * Putting him on your council (+20 opinion, but do this only if he's actually good enough to merit being on the council, and ever ever make someone who dislikes you Spymaster) * Sending your chancellor to his capital to Improve Relations (+30 opinion for I think 3 years if it fires, but it's unreliable and temporary; this is best if you need to raise vassals' opinions in order to change crown or inheritance laws) * Giving him something he wants; if you hold a title that's de jure his (a county within his duchy, a barony within his county) or have as your direct vassal someone who de jure should be HIS vassal, he will hate you for it, and his opinion of you will dramatically improve if you give him the title ("grant landed title") or vassal ("transfer vassalage"). * Straight up bribing him (it's expensive if you're still a small realm, but it's very effective). * If all else fails your Spymaster can prevent a troublesome vassal from joining or forming factions for (I think) 10 years with the Scheme mission in his capital. But it's unreliable. If the guy hates you so much that even doing all of this stuff isn't going to make much difference (if his opinion is lower than about -25) then it may be time to think about removing him. Your options for this include: * Straight up revoke his title. This will incur a -20 opinion hit to ALL vassals, and unless you overwhelmingly are more powerful than he is, he will make you fight a war for it. So it's usually not a viable option. * Have your chancellor fabricate a claim on his title. If you hold a claim on his title you can revoke it without anyone else giving a poo poo, though you'll still have to fight him for it. Claims can take forever to fabricate, though, and if you're playing Catholic fabricating claims is one of your only avenues of expansion, so there's an opportunity cost. * If you're Catholic, if the pope likes you and hates him the pope might give you a claim on his poo poo. Then you can revoke with no tyranny penalty. * If he's Ambitious and his heir isn't, then  . Just be aware that you will probably be caught and that's a -10 opinion to everyone in the world, permanently (but it doesn't stack, thankfully). DON'T do this if he's of your dynasty; the Kinslayer trait will wreck you.* If you discover him plotting, even if the plot isn't against you and it's just a random rival hit, you can imprison him without incurring tyranny. If you succeed he keeps his title but he can't faction, rebel or plot while he rots in your dungeon. If you fail then he will declare war on you, and you can smack him down and then revoke his title for free because he's a traitor. (DON'T do this if you can't whip him in a war.) If at all possible you want your vassals to be of the same culture as you; otherwise they'll get a significant (around -15) Foreigner opinion penalty with them. Finally, Diplomacy is the most important trait in the game, because it dramatically impacts your vassals' opinions of you. Always educate your heir yourself and steer him toward diplomacy-enhancing traits and away from diplomacy-draining ones, and right before he turns 16 switch him to a tutor with the Grey Eminence trait. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Nov 27, 2015 |
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Nov 27, 2015 22:55
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Goddamn. Thanks for the thorough breakdown, Eric the Mauve. That gives me a much better idea of what I can do. It'll be nice to make some informed decisions for a change. E: Would sending my chaplain to hang out with the pope be a pretty reliable way to get into his good graces?
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Nov 27, 2015 23:00
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GlitchThief posted:Goddamn. Thanks for the thorough breakdown, Eric the Mauve. That gives me a much better idea of what I can do. It'll be nice to make some informed decisions for a change. Yes. If you're Catholic, unless you have a very good reason to do otherwise your chaplain should always be parked in Rome on Improve Religious Relations duty.
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Nov 27, 2015 23:04
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SeaTard posted:One thing I'd add to your last update:
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Nov 27, 2015 23:40
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Eric the Mauve posted:if you give him the title ("grant landed title") or vassal ("transfer vassalage") Also, if a troublesome vassal is a Count or Duke, you can just transfer his vassalage to one of your Duke/King level vassals. Then he'll be someone else's problem, and you'll get an opinion bonus from them to boot. You can kill multiple birds with one stone a lot of the time by doing this. If you have an angry Duke and a couple of rear end in a top hat counts, just dump all the counts into the Duke's lap. He'll be happy since he's got a bigger domain under his control, but he won't actually be much more powerful because he'll have to spend all his time slapping down the gaggle of assholes you've saddled him with, and the assholes will bother him instead of you.
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Nov 27, 2015 23:41
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Also also make sure that you don't have anyone's de jure vassals serving you instead.
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Nov 27, 2015 23:42
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cock hero flux posted:Also, if a troublesome vassal is a Count or Duke, you can just transfer his vassalage to one of your Duke/King level vassals. Then he'll be someone else's problem, and you'll get an opinion bonus from them to boot. You can kill multiple birds with one stone a lot of the time by doing this. If you have an angry Duke and a couple of rear end in a top hat counts, just dump all the counts into the Duke's lap. He'll be happy since he's got a bigger domain under his control, but he won't actually be much more powerful because he'll have to spend all his time slapping down the gaggle of assholes you've saddled him with, and the assholes will bother him instead of you. Woah, I knew this game claimed quite a bit of historical accuracy but I didn't expect it to be this realistic.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:35
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Eric the Mauve posted:* If you're Catholic, if the pope likes you and hates him the pope might give you a claim on his poo poo. Then you can revoke with no tyranny penalty. I thought the Pope only gave you claims on people who had more territory than you. How do you get a claim on a vassal?
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Nov 28, 2015 01:44
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It's nice seeing a new perspective, most people commenting on my game just take the small print for granted.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:47
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SeaTard posted:One thing I'd add to your last update: I think I remember doing a test to see if raiding temples gave you piety, and seeing that it didn't, but I could be wrong. Either way, you're right, I forgot to mention that county conquests boost your MA as well. I'll bring it up in the next episode before I get into raiding. My only issue with your strategy would be that typically, I'm either at the end of my first rulers life, or at the beginning of my first heirs life, so I either don't need piety at all, or I need a shitload. And if you need a shitload of piety, sieging everything twice before winning a conquest, doubling the amount of time it takes for you to meet your piety requirement, can add up to several years tacked on before you can form the Fylkirate. If you take 3 or 4 stacks to Ireland, and just do laps around the coast, burning down churches as soon as the looting cooldown has expired, you can rack up 15% extra MA in like 3 years, so if you're deeply in the hole on MA, that's the best bet. But if you're sitting in a situation where you're at say 45 MA and 500 piety, you could be meeting both requirements at the same time by doing what you're describing, which would probably be the fastest possible way you could do it.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:59
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Jedit posted:I thought the Pope only gave you claims on people who had more territory than you. How do you get a claim on a vassal? That's only for invasions, I think. Under most circumstances he'll give you a claim on anyone's territory if he hates them enough and likes you enough. (Click on the title and then the "Claim" button if it's there.)
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Nov 28, 2015 02:14
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I have never gotten Papal Invasion or Claims to work, and I've only rarely witnessed the AI get claims. What the heck.
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Nov 28, 2015 03:14
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Eric the Mauve posted:That's only for invasions, I think. Under most circumstances he'll give you a claim on anyone's territory if he hates them enough and likes you enough. (Click on the title and then the "Claim" button if it's there.) Those are two extraordinarily big ifs.
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Nov 28, 2015 04:56
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DStecks posted:Those are two extraordinarily big ifs. Yes, they are. Usually it's a combination of firing the Improve Relations event with the pope 2 or 3 times in a row plus the other guy having three "sinful" traits and no piety.
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Nov 28, 2015 05:24
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Volkerball posted:lol the tutorial lp thread got archived since my last update on getting started as a viking. whoops. i'll consolidate these here because i'm gonna finish the drat thing. The Viking Age Begins, Part 4: Raiding 101 (796-797)
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Nov 28, 2015 06:47
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Eric the Mauve posted:That's only for invasions, I think. Under most circumstances he'll give you a claim on anyone's territory if he hates them enough and likes you enough. (Click on the title and then the "Claim" button if it's there.) There are actually two scenarios in which the pope can grant you an invasion. Either you are smaller than the target, or you have a claim on it. This is quite useful if you only have a weak claim and can't manage to assassinate the adult male ruling the target realm. And of course, invasion grants you all holdings you occupy, which gives you an opportunity to ethnically cleanse the realm and give out the proper titles to have pretty internal borders.
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Nov 28, 2015 07:16
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Somewhat related to the Moral Authority discussion, I just found this guy. A master seducer prince-bishop, with Lover's Pox, Court Tomcat, and 12 children, and he's blinded besides. Dude gotta have a smooth drat tongue if he can still pitch woo without seeing where he's aiming.
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Nov 28, 2015 09:48
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Mister Adequate posted:If you're a Merchant Republic you can hold cities without penalties, and if you're a Muslim you can hold temples without penalties, and if you're a Muslim Patrician you can hold all three. Not anymore, since Iqta became a government type rather than a property of being a Muslim. You can't be both Iqta and a Republic, so you can no longer hold all 3 types.
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Nov 28, 2015 10:58
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Veryslightlymad posted:Like, I've tried changing the color values (for Kingdom of Greece, so K_Byzantium)--the numeric ones--and nothing happens. I've tried in both the normal folder and in the mod folder I made. Neither seems to do anything. Do I have to change anything outside of the numeric values? I dunno what it could be then. I've done a quick test on e_roman_empire title and it works like a snap. Are you sure you're changing the color = { } and not the color2 = { } line? Because the first of those is the one that ultimately matters the most. Short of that or something about you changing the vanilla files just not registering with the game for whatever reason (or indeed, you just needing a new monitor or eyes)...I'm honestly at a loss.
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Nov 28, 2015 13:35
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Hey guy trying to claim Scotland. I'm not sure what the laws of Scotland are but sometimes Scotland has this funny thing where any de jure duke of Scotland can participate in the elective succession. This means you can be elected King (or Queen) of Scotland. Go for a trick shot where you take Galloway or the Isle of Mann in the regular way and continue chipping away at Scottish territory until an opportunity presents itself. I got my character elected Queen of Scotland by gathering support in Scotland and forcing the king to abdicate but it's a really situational move. Regarding vassals: try to make sure each duke you have owns their entire de jure duchy. Avoid count vassals.
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Nov 28, 2015 13:55
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:Hey guy trying to claim Scotland. I'm not sure what the laws of Scotland are but sometimes Scotland has this funny thing where any de jure duke of Scotland can participate in the elective succession. This means you can be elected King (or Queen) of Scotland. Go for a trick shot where you take Galloway or the Isle of Mann in the regular way and continue chipping away at Scottish territory until an opportunity presents itself. Count vassals are okay within your own two de jure duchies. They'll probably comprise more counties than you can fit under your demesne limit, especially since you always want to fill your capital up with baronies (or cities if you're a republic) ASAP and hold them yourself to maximize your marshal and steward bonuses. Otherwise, the only excuse to ever have a count vassal as a king/emperor is you got control of one or two counties but don't have the others and can't create/usurp the duchy title yet.
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Nov 28, 2015 15:27
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Oh wait, I'm supposed to hold two duchies? I thought more than one pissed off my vassals.
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Nov 28, 2015 18:01
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GlitchThief posted:Oh wait, I'm supposed to hold two duchies? I thought more than one pissed off my vassals. More than two pisses off your vassals.
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Nov 28, 2015 18:05
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Eric the Mauve posted:More than two pisses off your vassals. Wait, so if you have more than duke titles you get a negative opinion modifier?
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Nov 28, 2015 18:16
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Ultimate Shrek Fan posted:Wait, so if you have more than duke titles you get a negative opinion modifier? Too many duchies, it irritates your vassals, but if you're not pissing them off in other ways you can usually work around it.
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Nov 28, 2015 18:20
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Ah wow, somehow I got the figure wrong. Thanks for all the advice! Last night I gave up my claim to counties that my vassals were dukes over and started moving towards setting them up to be Content rather than Ambitious. I also managed to rightfully imprison my one ambitious Duke. Overall, things have become a lot easier to manage already.
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Nov 28, 2015 18:29
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Is Nomad Clan Limit determined by the number of completely nomadic counties? That seems... overpowered. I just conquered Persia as Khiva, released my clans, and now don't need any more of them.
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Nov 28, 2015 18:55
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uh so I'm not sure, but I think things just got a little more complicated.
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Nov 28, 2015 19:06
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Possibly. It depends on whether you want to actually keep the land for yourself or not. You can always hand it off to the Pope if you want.
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Nov 28, 2015 19:12
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Or a Holy Order.
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Nov 28, 2015 19:15
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Or break away from your liege and set up shop in Andalusia. It's probably the best kingdom in Hispania.
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