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lol starbound
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Nov 29, 2015 00:27
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wall of text/effortpost for a stupid loving idea tiy clearly has this poo poo under control 
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Nov 29, 2015 00:35
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There are rants on Reddit? Oh god  Anyway, I want to like this game, but I can't. Welp, see ya later!
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Nov 29, 2015 00:39
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no, THIS time our combat system works
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Nov 29, 2015 01:09
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i got this game for two dollars and it's fun + good. it has damage on touch unless you're jumping on an enemy's head, and it's actually fitting for the game http://store.steampowered.com/app/360740/
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Nov 29, 2015 01:20
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I've tried really hard to remain optimistic about Starbound but it's getting harder and harder. I hope modding is worthwhile and there are still modders interested by the time it's finished.
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Nov 29, 2015 01:29
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ubachung posted:I've tried really hard to remain optimistic about Starbound but it's getting harder and harder. I hope modding is worthwhile and there are still modders interested by the time it's finished. the funny part is that the moddability would have actually gotten this game a lot of attention if the devs had just loving made up their mind on what they wanted the base game to be. as it is now there's nothing solid to build off of and that moddability is going to waste because no one wants to create for a constantly shifting system. right now they're loving around with whether or not enemies should do contact damage, i guess, which should have been ironed out early in development.
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Nov 29, 2015 01:45
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graynull posted:The progression is just hollow and meaningless, and as a result the game feels empty and joyless. New star systems, skim the surface for ore, make some armor and fight some boss. I'd like to say I was being reductive, but that's about it. At risk of getting a flood of shitpost replies, I'm interested in how people would change the progression to something more satisfying. And by that I mean something that would be doable in the realm of the game as it is right now, not something that would basically mean making a completely different game. I've actually been pondering that question for a while now and the only thing I could come up with is changing the planetary hazards to actual hazards rather than glorified keycards, so to survive on a radioactive planet you'd have to craft a hazmat suit, radiation meds, etc. and just generally add a bunch of different hazards/survival mechanics in. But even that would essentially boil down to resource grind though and I don't know if a block building game like this could ever be more than that so I'm curious if someone else has some good idea. ubachung posted:I've tried really hard to remain optimistic about Starbound but it's getting harder and harder. I hope modding is worthwhile and there are still modders interested by the time it's finished. I've actually been interested in making some kind of large-scale progression overhaul for Starbound for a while now. The problem has been a lack of inspiration, hence my question above. Otherwise I'm in the process of learning LUA and I've made some smaller mods in the past to familiarize myself with Starbound modding, I just need to nail down a good concept so I can actually start working.
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Nov 29, 2015 01:57
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ubachung posted:I've tried really hard to remain optimistic about Starbound but it's getting harder and harder. I hope modding is worthwhile and there are still modders interested by the time it's finished. I was interested in getting into modding once upon a time, tweaked some items a bit, then the last patch came out and broke everything I had done. Crushed any desire I had to continue learning. Agent Kool-Aid posted:the funny part is that the moddability would have actually gotten this game a lot of attention if the devs had just loving made up their mind on what they wanted the base game to be. It's worse than that, they can't even decide what their variable names should be and change a bunch of them every patch, which breaks all the mods. This new one will break anything that modifies items and all pre-existing modified/nonstandard items. The last stable patch did too.
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Nov 29, 2015 01:59
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on-hit damage:
on-attack damage:
tiy: [sweats nervously]
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Nov 29, 2015 01:59
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I like your new avatar. It's simple... But there's Just something about it...
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Nov 29, 2015 02:08
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3+ years of development
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Nov 29, 2015 02:18
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I realized the core of my dislike for the game, sure the combat/quests are floaty and buggy but I can live with that. It's the lack of permanence the whole go planet to planet setup just makes it feel like there is no purpose in building up a base, my favorite part of Terraria was designing the base for the NPCs and to survive the various events, maybe if the ship was less of a small ship and more of some sort of giant city ark that landed on each planet you went to as a giant mobile base that you use to pillage from the locals so it served more of a gameplay purpose.
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Nov 29, 2015 02:23
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The combat should literally be Soldat. Here is the web page http://soldat.pl/en/ you can play it for free.
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Nov 29, 2015 02:29
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lol at that wall of game developer-speak to attempt to justify yet another bad decision. also, if you read it and attempt to parse it, it basically says "we had no idea how to make our monsters a threat without damage on touch."
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Nov 29, 2015 02:47
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Vib Rib posted:Starbound is a bad game
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Nov 29, 2015 02:55
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ubachung posted:I've tried really hard to remain optimistic about Starbound but it's getting harder and harder. I hope modding is worthwhile and there are still modders interested by the time it's finished. I've tried too because of the nice things in the game, but my largest sticking point has always been the Combat/survivability end soooooooo  Remember when Supernorn told us in this thread (or was it the last?) they were going to make the energy system more forgiving, and then the next day announced "if you run out of energy, we lock your regen! This is adds real depth to combat because-"? That's about when I stopped believing the Devs claims they would fix combat* until I see it. *Fixed in a way I wouldn't find an unfun slog. Not a way their forums commenters won't salivate over and ask how to make it harder. SovietPotatoe posted:At risk of getting a flood of shitpost replies, I'm interested in how people would change the progression to something more satisfying. Make yourself effectively stronger as you progress, not just running a treadmill to be allowed to enter the next area without dying in 1 hit (as opposed to 3). The boring treadmill is their love of making it so you take X hits before you die and need Y hits to kill enemies when they are perfectly matched to your gear. How is the gameplay different with the best craftable sword compared to the worst in their given areas? It isn't. That's one of the problems. It doesn't even have to be better damage, make better weapons take less energy (without making early tier guns have poo poo energy, like when they nerf bows). Make better weapons shoot sword beams or have spread gun effects just by crafting them instead of being on some RNG object you obselete in 2 seconds. etc. Instead we have stuff like Staffs that take basically all your energy to kill maybe one enemy, and you have to hold still to use them (last I checked)., being what you have to "look forward to" Throw in them constantly nerfing on purpose (food sickness!) or on accident (farming changes!) your only effective sustainable means of healing without just throwing hundreds of thousands of pixels at a doctor NPC or nanobandages (whoops, need vines to make the real bandages first!), and you just add to the slog. Section Z fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 03:58
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how many times are they planning to fundamentally change how combat works thats all i care to hear
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Nov 29, 2015 07:21
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it's genuinely amazing how a game like this with an incredibly solid modding base can become incredibly popular just from the mods. look at minecraft. the base game is dull as a loving rock, but the mods are genuinely some of the most creative things i've ever seen. this could have been a 2d version that. there seriously is some potential in whatever the hell we have now, at least. starbound could have been like that! technically, it still could. but uh...it helps if a game actually figures out what the gently caress it's going to be within the first year of its development. it's been like watching a bunch of people who have never seen a football before try to catch a long pass and continually fumble it in a comedic fashion as they repeatedly throw it between each other without actually holding onto it.
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Nov 29, 2015 07:29
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You know, I gave the benefit of a doubt and thought the talk of schizophrenic adding-redacting-adding of bad features was hyperbole and only happened once, welp. I remember when people in this thread thought Tiy was the good half of Terraria...
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Nov 29, 2015 07:34
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Rrussom posted:I would like to point out that the OP, aswell as babe magnet, is actually pretty good as it actually has some effort put into it, unlike starbound itself. thank you friend I really will update it one of these days, in fact I was all set to start ripping stuff out and combing through their blog for pictures since a new update is hitting soon, but finding out that Tiy is bringing back touch damage just kind of killed my momentum lol also lmao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFmdiofzYKk
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Nov 29, 2015 08:37
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Jackard posted:how many times are they planning to fundamentally change how combat works Zero, none of the changes were ever planned.
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Nov 29, 2015 08:39
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Section Z posted:Remember when Supernorn told us in this thread (or was it the last?) they were going to make the energy system more forgiving, and then the next day announced "if you run out of energy, we lock your regen! This is adds real depth to combat because-"? See, it would add depth to combat if there were any meaningful choices in spending energy but as it stands two shots from any gun cleans out your bar completely. The fact that guns take energy right now might as well make the rate of fire for every gun be "lol nope." The closest thing to "depth" is try to use your gun for a few minutes, realize all the guns are loving terrible, and then switch to a melee weapon. Which also has zero depth; one of three things happens - 1 - You kill everything in one shot. 2 - You kill everything in two shots. 3 - Everything kills you in one shot. Combat is basically an equipment check. If you have good enough gear the monsters are zero threat. If you do not you just die. I very much want Starbound to be a good game but...well...it isn't.
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Nov 29, 2015 08:52
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ToxicSlurpee posted:realize all the guns are loving terrible no, starbound is schrödinger's gun. all guns exist in a state of quantum uncertainty, until they are observed in the state of either being equipped on an npc that's shooting at you, or being equipped on a player character
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Nov 29, 2015 10:07
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This game is the Big Rigs of Metroidvania's, Pound for Starpound.
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Nov 29, 2015 11:01
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Section Z posted:Make yourself effectively stronger as you progress, not just running a treadmill to be allowed to enter the next area without dying in 1 hit (as opposed to 3). The boring treadmill is their love of making it so you take X hits before you die and need Y hits to kill enemies when they are perfectly matched to your gear. So you're suggesting giving craftable melee weapons tiered alt fires as you go up in the crafting tree? I could see that diversifying combat somewhat but it would need more to truly make late game combat feel different. Maybe lock certain weapon types behind progression, i.e. no rocket launchers/legendary weapons until tier 4 or something? Enemy escalation would have to be considered as well, instead of dumping all the unique enemies right on the starting planet later planets could feature enemies with more powerful abilities. Also locking them to more appropriate biomes might help increase biome diversity and monster "uniqueness". The other thing I would look at are armors. Right now you have a linear progression until Tier 5 when it branches out into defensive, energy/damage and middle of the road armor. It might be better if the split happened right at the start of the game and later game armors introduced special abilities to set them apart from each other further in their respective roles. So the separator sets would grant you a movement bonus or a passive regenerating shield effect, the accelerator set would give passive/sped up energy regen and the manipulator set would do... something (I'd really appreciate if someone can pitch me a good idea for that one). This would also tie nicely into the whole equipment progression, early armors just give you a choice between health and damage, later armors allow you to specialize with unique effects and give you an additional edge against the more difficult enemies on high-tier planets. Maybe add some of the old armors back as stopgaps or sidegrades, e.g. Diamond armor provides even more health and armor than the Impervium armor but its clunky and offers no bonuses/movement speed penalty? Staffs would need some major work to make them not a completely worthless gimmick but I have no idea what to do about them. They seem like something CF shoehorned in for no real reason and with no plan for how they would fit into the game's combat system. If someone has some brilliant idea on how to un-gently caress the staves, please do tell me. That's it for combat but in order to fix the shallow progression I think one thing that has to happen is the universe needs to be less linear. Previously it was just a case of going Garden -> Desert -> Ocean -> Tropical -> Frozen -> Volcanic to grind the ores you need for armor so the game let's you do the next quest. The latest unstable update actually changed the way alloys are made so you can straight-up skip Desert, Tropical and Volcanic altogether. I'd rather have every planet have some kind of environmental hazard associated with it, like extreme heat/cold, radiation, etc. and other planets provide resources you can use to help you survive there. So it wouldn't be so much a game of collect ore -> collect keycard to unlock next tier of planets -> repeat and more a case of letting the player think which and how many resources he needs to collect to survive in any given biome. This could mean collecting water from an ocean planet to survive in a desert to collect oil to craft steel armor, collecting biomatter from a tropical planet to create radiation meds to survive on a radioactive world or collecting liquid nitrogen to power an environmental cooling system to survive on a volcanic world. This would at least provide some diversity in resource gathering if not everything requires mining ores as well as open up the universe to a much more freeform progression where players can decide what they want to go for and when, along with an incentive to revisit previously explored biomes.
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Nov 29, 2015 11:57
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It's not like we're talking about quantum physics here, game design and difficulty progression are well-understood concepts that can be very easily applied to an 2D real-time RPG with tier mechanics (in fact, most of those traits vastly simplify the design required). The most ideal enemy design is based around creating challenges that are increasingly more difficult to avoid, and more punishing to fail. This is the thought process behind Dark Souls (which Tiy seems to obsess over); Enemies have blatantly telegraphed attacks and abilities, and failing to react to these challenges harshly punishes the player. To apply this to Starbound, enemy challenges should be both telegraphed and surmountable, but deadly if ignored. Progression through tiers can go like this: Tier 1 - Enemies are slow or immobile, attack telegraphs are long and highly visible (EX: A slime or rabbit creature that attacks by leaping into the air, and applying damage on the downfall) Tier 2 - Enemies are more mobile, adopt unique discoverable traits that make telegraphs more quirky (EX: a goat that has multiple frames of chargeup animation before rushing forward a distance, a turret that has a clear aiming line that tries to lock onto the player before firing in a straight line) Tier 3 - Enemies are actively aggressive, require more defensive actions before they can be dodged or attacked (EX: a Wolf that relentlessly pursues the player, makes an attack leap at close range, then slides back and growls, providing an opening for the player after they have defended against the attack) And so on, and so forth. I admit to not playing Starbound, but it seems, from the complaints, that monster AI does not follow this design philosophy; it sounds like you either have passive creatures, and hostile creatures that run at you until you or they die. This is a type of design that inherently rewards statistical supremacy (like in a basic RPG), which while not bad on its own (Metroidvanias use this basic setup to focus on other elements) is completely at odds with the Dark Souls-favored school of design. Compounded with this is the (understandable and cool in a vacuum) focus on random generation of monsters and equipment in the style of Diablo. However meshing both Diablo-esque randomized elements with Dark Souls' heavily telegraphed and stable enemies isn't an insurmountable task, and mainly requires attributing these tiered intelligence traits to the randomized parts; monsters with Horns should have telegraphed ramming attacks, long Wolf legs indicate distance chasers, size indicates tier, etcetera. This marries the randomized elements to the behavioral difficulty, and even introduces a new skill for the player to learn from stealthily observing amalgam creatures' visible traits, which is a really cool thing. It's obvious that they seem to have at least some understanding of telegraphed behaviour, if you look at the Lunar Base crystal boss thing. The problem with damage-on-touch is that it completely negates any sort of close-combat avoidance of telegraphed attacks; imagine if, in Dark Souls, there was a large circle around every enemy beyond their attack pattern, and being in this circle harmed you. Or if there was a Monster Hunter game where touching the monster instantly damaged you and knocked you back. The only effective tactic in that case would be "only use ranged until you can literally tank through the damage and beat the monster through statistically attrition". Long post TLDR: They haven't dug themselves into a hole, but they're certainly digging downwards, and it's blatantly obvious that they at some point lost any focus on what their combat should be. They've married the lethality of telegraphed attacks with the statistical foreplay of binary ATTACK/DONT ATTACK RPG enemies, and that's not Good Times. They don't even need to do anything in this post or anyone else's posts, they just need to make up their mind. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 16:58
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Neurolimal posted:they just need to make up their mind.
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Nov 29, 2015 17:34
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SovietPotatoe posted:So you're suggesting giving craftable melee weapons tiered alt fires as you go up in the crafting tree? I could see that diversifying combat somewhat but it would need more to truly make late game combat feel different. Maybe lock certain weapon types behind progression, i.e. no rocket launchers/legendary weapons until tier 4 or something? Enemy escalation would have to be considered as well, instead of dumping all the unique enemies right on the starting planet later planets could feature enemies with more powerful abilities. Also locking them to more appropriate biomes might help increase biome diversity and monster "uniqueness". I could see staves and that progression being something like a support class. Like the staves can cast a thorns effect on someone, or a shield, or regen effect, or a damage boost, protection against poison/etc. Downside to that would be your hotbar is just fuckin' full of different staves, or your energy might be depleted and/or your fairly weaker so your buffed up friends have to help you out. That, and maybe staves do pure DoT damage instead of having any alpha. I dunno. Could be neat. The way Starbound is handling their game reminds me of someone who is trying the "guess and check" method, but without knowing which way to alter their guess.
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Nov 29, 2015 17:53
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My biggest qualm with starbound is that it hardly feels "futuristic" or if you will "space age" at all. It feels very "fantasy esqu" like there should be elves and dwarves running around Instead of "aliens". The guns feel like an after thought in favor of mele combat, the "science wand" feels more like a magic wand, every world you visit feels too much like earth, except for a few, and the different races don't feel... Different? What I mean is the robots don't feel like robots, the heated gas people don't feel like heated gas people and so on and so forth. The humans and apex feel OK I guess... For whatever that's worth.
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Nov 29, 2015 18:11
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ScorpioMajesty posted:My biggest qualm with starbound is that it hardly feels "futuristic" or if you will "space age" at all. It feels very "fantasy esqu" like there should be elves and dwarves running around Instead of "aliens". The guns feel like an after thought in favor of mele combat, the "science wand" feels more like a magic wand, every world you visit feels too much like earth, except for a few, and the different races don't feel... Different? What I mean is the robots don't feel like robots, the heated gas people don't feel like heated gas people and so on and so forth. The humans and apex feel OK I guess... For whatever that's worth. Of all the things in Starbound people have issue with, at the very least I have no problem with swords and log cabins in space. Tools quality gates, yeah that's kinda sad regardless of if you are swinging a pickaxe or using a matter manipulator. (Remember that short period you had to dig up a stone pick, to dig up copper, so you could make a copper pick to dig up iron and silver, to make an iron pick to-). But Flash Gordon style Sword in one hand and raygun in the other, that's okay with me. (If not their effectiveness).
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Nov 29, 2015 18:22
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can i just say the Install Wizard is the best thing this game has done so far
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Nov 29, 2015 18:24
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Meh... I could also be a big dumb idiot with bad opinions. I do post on the something awful dot com forums. Edit: I do stand by my statement that they need to make guns more enjoyable. hey welcome to the show! fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 18:35
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Neurolimal posted:some good-rear end poo poo let's make sure to keep this post around next time supernorn comes in to act like everything's fine
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Nov 29, 2015 22:53
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Rrussom posted:This game is the Big Rigs of Metroidvania's, Pound for Starpound. you need to get out of there already Supernorn this game is already on a pedestal with Star Citizen
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Nov 29, 2015 22:56
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A rift of spacetime opened into the future and I glimpsed through it long enough for this screenshot. Get hyped guys, THIS patch is definitely gonna make Starbound good! Feels so good, I'm pumped.
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Nov 30, 2015 00:11
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i'm hype for future twitter lifting the 140 char limit
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Nov 30, 2015 00:16
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I haven't read this thread since page 7 and I haven't played this game since they added those quests to get your ship running with bosses everyone bitched about. Has anything of significance changed or are they still just waffling on basic game functions like some kind of 2D low-budget StarCitizeBound?
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Nov 30, 2015 00:53
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Nov 30, 2015 01:04
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 23:39 |
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Yum! Well worth 15 bucks. Unlike starbound.
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Nov 30, 2015 01:06
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