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uPen posted:If abyss becomes actually fun/challenging where would you go when you get all your skills drained and your main attack now has a 30%+ failure rate or you have -4 strength and paralyze yourself every few dozen turns? I mean, presumably you don't deliberately get banished when you want to voluntarily enter the Abyss. Also stat drain is a weird fucky annoying edge case already and I would not be especially surprised to see it disappear or change significantly at some point. As for drain, you can use strong evocables on scary enemies to quickly recoup xp in an emergency.
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Nov 27, 2015 14:47
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Angry Diplomat posted:Also stat drain is a weird fucky annoying edge case already and I would not be especially surprised to see it disappear or change significantly at some point. As for drain, you can use strong evocables on scary enemies to quickly recoup xp in an emergency. I also would like to see stat drain go away, after having experienced a massive amount of it when getting the Avarice III banner. I had to stop 2 times in Dis to go grind in the Abyss, just to get rid of the stat drain I had built up, and it was more annoying than challenging. Alternatively, keep stat drain, but use it in the place of mutation for bad effects of contamination. Once you hit yellow or higher, you start stat draining as it decreases down to safe levels. Or bring back restore abilities potions 
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Nov 27, 2015 15:26
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I like the idea of Abyss being a survive X rounds in the place, based on the severity of the banishment. Like, you always get transported out after a while unless you entered voluntarily.
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Nov 27, 2015 15:41
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If you dive down to abyss 5 there should always be a rune vault, right there at the bottom where you enter.
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Nov 27, 2015 20:35
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Someone Awful! posted:I should definitely have used mana sap/the AOE mana drain thing more because they were very strong and would have saved me some grief, but with the amount of rods I was juggling I honestly forgot they were options a lot of the time. That's on me, though.
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Nov 27, 2015 21:03
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Can Of Worms posted:I used it once in the Elf:3 end vault with about 4 high tier elves with full MP. I got so much contam from it that quaffing 4 potions of cancellation left me in red contam. Okay that's legitimately hilarious but maybe a touch over-tuned on the contam. 
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Nov 27, 2015 21:14
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You hear a distant slurping noise... So jellies can spawn inside the treasure vaults? I never knew that  Edit: vvvvv On Zigs. This is exactly what I just did. I had cleared out everything short of extended and found exactly 0 level 9 spells and had mediocre equipment. So I dove the Depth Zig and came out with a bunch of books I was missing and a few artefacts that definitely helped. And I did have to blink chain out of a mummy floor by the skin of my teeth
Fhqwhgads fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Nov 27, 2015 |
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Nov 27, 2015 23:10
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I don't know if I like the zig change. I think it's fun to jump into them when you're seriously not ready for it to skim a few items off the top floors and then escape. If you're smart you escape after clearing an easy floor, but if you're like me, you get in over your head and then try to teleport near the exit and get out with 20 hp. That's fun stuff to do, but I wouldn't do want to do anything like that if I can get locked out of trying to clear zigs later on. It sucks to not be able to bail on a zig you're trying to clear (more than once), too.
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Nov 27, 2015 23:12
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Fhqwhgads posted:You hear a distant slurping noise... After TRJ is dead, can't you teleport in there? I'd guess a Jelly hit a tele trap and got put there.
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Nov 27, 2015 23:28
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odiv posted:After TRJ is dead, can't you teleport in there? I'd guess a Jelly hit a tele trap and got put there. Ah that could be it. I did find some tele traps lying around. I had a Shia LeBeouf "nononononononono" moment when I was nowhere near the middle and I started getting those slurping messages
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Nov 27, 2015 23:38
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I had a similar moment recently. I left Maud with a dangerous branded weapon on a floor only to turn the corner and run into her the next floor down. I figure she must have gone down a shaft.
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Nov 27, 2015 23:48
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At one point it was possible for TRJ itself to step on a teletrap and end up in the treasure vaults, locking you out forever.
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Nov 27, 2015 23:50
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I liked the one where if a player choose the name "shaped Royal Jelly" the vaults would unlock when the player's ghost was killed
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Nov 27, 2015 23:53
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wowowow did encounters ever get an overhaul. Found a vault on Elf 1 that was as hard as the one on Elf 3. It had: 10 Deep Elf Knights 16 Deep Elf Fighters 13 Deep Elf Conjurers 8 Deep Elf Priests 11 Deep Elf Mages 4 Deep Elf Summoners (thank god) 5 Shapeshifters 4 Enchanted Weapons (short swords) Lotta dudes in one room for Elf 1 right? Oh it gets better: Azrael the Boundless Flame w/ entourage (Salamanders, Fire Elementals, Hell Hounds) Aizul the Neglectful Guardian Frances, Duchess of Pandemonium Donald the Adventurer That was probably the hardest Elf 1 I've ever seen. Got about halfway through using a corridor and then the uniques showed up and I was all "ok this is getting ridiculous I am murderholding this poo poo". Depths has been tweaked quite a lot too, or the same design change is affecting Depths. I had to stop on Depths 2 because every fight was turning into a slaughter and thought that Elf would be easier(!). One problem that remains with Depths though is the monster selection: Trolls, Ogres, Necros, Wizards, Giants, repeat ad nauseum. Did find 1 Juggernaut so far; they hit kinda hard.
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Nov 28, 2015 00:37
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Did the vault have a bunch of dragons trapped in glass? I've seen that one a few times.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:13
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After exploring I'm not even sure it was a vault, there wasn't any treasure or anything in it. It was just a big round room with six pillars in a circle, and one pillar in the middle. Elf2 and Elf3 were absolute walkovers after that crazy Elf 1. I think I went from XL19-XL21 and got three different Oka gifts in just that one fight.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:35
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Look at me double posting like a pro: I'm doing a 15 rune GaFi and have lucked across 2 zigs in Pan, and took both to lvl 14 (I ain't crazy). In the meantime, I've been finding a lot of Rods, and I just grabbed this one which is a +8 Rod of Ignition. Thanks to XP potions my evo is at lvl 7 already, is this worth hanging onto and using? I'm embarassed to say it but I've almost never used evocables until now. I'm going to train up evo anyway since fighting/flail/shield are already at 27. EDIT-Holy poo poo this thing is frickin awesome I'm spurtin flames all over the place here got up to a zig 20 with this and having 25 Invo for Zin's recite. Double Edit-Got to Zig 25 in fifth zig try, for the first time with a melee character. This rod stuff is ok, but more importantly Zin recite/vitality Scaramouche fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 28, 2015 09:01
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Ignition is a great rod. Iron and lightening are my favorite direct damage though. Destruction and Cloud are nice but unreliable. Shadow is stupidly powerfull. Swarm is the first I toss when my inventory gets full cause it is trash.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:51
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Scaramouche posted:
Rod of Ignition is my favorite to use. You have discovered why.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:54
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quote:9985781 Fhqwhgads the Petrodigitator (level 27, 172/199 HPs) Finally turned this one around and got a 15-rune spellcaster! Took Chei to heart though and was very slow and steady, scumming Pan for a bit to bring up some skills once I realized I was pretty untouchable. Except for Lom Lobon, jesus. That was the first time I just apported a rune and got the gently caress out of there. Something I didn't realize was that Shatter works on all the Tomb walls. "Accidentally" used it on Tomb:1 and bit off a whole lot more than I thought I could chew. Got the Zig Fig at the end of Tomb but since it was the last rune I needed I decided not to press my luck. http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Fhqwhgads/morgue-Fhqwhgads-20151128-052503.txt
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Nov 28, 2015 15:40
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World Famous Whore posted:Ignition is a great rod. Iron and lightening are my favorite direct damage though. Destruction and Cloud are nice but unreliable. Shadow is stupidly powerfull. Swarm is the first I toss when my inventory gets full cause it is trash.
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Nov 28, 2015 19:25
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Haifisch posted:Clouds is great, you just need medium-high levels of evo to make it reliable. I'm talking at least 14-ish evo to consistantly get freezing/fire/negative energy clouds, and even higher if you want acid clouds. I guess I also forget to mention Rods of Inaccuracy, which are great to wander around with in hand and blast sleeping enemies with.
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Nov 28, 2015 19:41
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I found a Rod of Shotguns on a DDNe and used it for a whole of Lair:1 before getting killed by a freezing cloud in an ice cave but for that one floor my boomstick was really fun. Just figured I'd share that.
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Nov 28, 2015 20:50
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World Famous Whore posted:I guess I also forget to mention Rods of Inaccuracy, which are great to wander around with in hand and blast sleeping enemies with. Also quite good against curse skulls and other very-low-EV enemies.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:27
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Inaccuracy and Iron are amazing as hell rods to keep in reserve, since the former rules at pulverizing really scary low-EV enemies and the latter rules at shredding groups of low-AC enemies. Probably the best all-purpose rod is Shadows imo, since just making GBS threads a bunch of strong summons everywhere is a great panic button, but Iron is my favourite because it's literally a goddamn shotgun. FR: bring back the Rod of Striking or whatever that awful lovely melee one was, but give it an Evo-based chance on hit to cast that one Force conjuration spell that knocks stuff back, and let the wielder evoke to manually cast and target it. I'd use a Rod of Oh God Get Away for sure.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:53
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I had one game where I found inacc on d4 and I can say confidently that you can use it against everything and it will murder them good, even if they have ev. Inacc is the exception to my general stance of "rods are too tedious to bother with, just throw a javelin/spell" Inaccuracy is a misleading name, it should be a rod of death lasers.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:57
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PleasingFungus posted:Also quite good against curse skulls and other very-low-EV enemies. The tiny Christmas hat on your avatar is amazing, fyi
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Nov 28, 2015 22:49
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Angry Diplomat posted:Inaccuracy and Iron are amazing as hell rods to keep in reserve, since the former rules at pulverizing really scary low-EV enemies and the latter rules at shredding groups of low-AC enemies. Maybe it should get a tile update!
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Nov 28, 2015 23:06
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I ascended that Gargoyle eventually. That was the first time I think, where I felt I was just kicking the poo poo out of the game. All my other ascensions have been like "ok that was pretty nuts but I barely made it, run for Zot now", but that one was kind of "jeez, I could keep going, maybe do some zigs/pan/abyss diving". I never finished a Zig (too chicken) but I'm still amazed I was consistently able to do Zig 25 with a melee character (did this three times). Zin's recite at 27 Invo was amazing for mummy/undead/hell levels, and the rods got busted out for Slime/Snake/Lair levels. With Vitalisation up I think I had 90 AC, 40 EV and 40 SH. I eventually had to stop picking up enchant armour/weapon scrolls since I had nothing they were applicable to any longer. Its totally changed my view of Zigs, in that if I have an ascension worthy guy I'll probably check out at least Zig 1-10 to see if I can get lucky.
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Nov 29, 2015 03:39
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Scaramouche posted:I ascended that Gargoyle eventually. That was the first time I think, where I felt I was just kicking the poo poo out of the game. All my other ascensions have been like "ok that was pretty nuts but I barely made it, run for Zot now", but that one was kind of "jeez, I could keep going, maybe do some zigs/pan/abyss diving". I never finished a Zig (too chicken) but I'm still amazed I was consistently able to do Zig 25 with a melee character (did this three times). Zin's recite at 27 Invo was amazing for mummy/undead/hell levels, and the rods got busted out for Slime/Snake/Lair levels. With Vitalisation up I think I had 90 AC, 40 EV and 40 SH. I eventually had to stop picking up enchant armour/weapon scrolls since I had nothing they were applicable to any longer. Its totally changed my view of Zigs, in that if I have an ascension worthy guy I'll probably check out at least Zig 1-10 to see if I can get lucky. Yeah, dipping into Zigs is always a good idea if you don't feel fully prepared for Zot:5 and want to gamble on a bit of extra gear. That is, until you get a Fire/Pan Lord floor and eat it before you know what happened.
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Nov 29, 2015 03:45
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Scaramouche posted:I never finished a Zig (too chicken) but I'm still amazed I was consistently able to do Zig 25 with a melee character (did this three times). The difference between floor 25 and floor 27 is actually pretty minor. What type of floor you get matters a lot more. Especially if you did multiple zigs in one run, Zig3 floor 25 is a much bigger step up from Zig1 floor 25 compared to Z1F25 -> Z1F27. Besides, if you don't get that zig completion note you can't brag about it properly. It's my sage wisdom for completing zigs and/or overextending horribly: "Well, the next level isn't really any harder than this one, and I definitely won't get a Chaos floor this time..."
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Nov 29, 2015 04:47
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Got a DDNe up and running in Lair without dying to stupid poo poo. Finding three acceptable randart armors, two rings of MR and Wizardry each, a randart +7 holy whip with Str+5, and a cheap randart buckler with MR++, Stlth+, and +Fly all before even entering Lair are definitely helping things along. Sublimation of Blood is a useful if a little dicey spell to use on a DD, especially in those instances when I get ~20 mana and take off a third of my life, but that's just more fuel for draining! It'll kill me eventually but whatever. Is Death Channel worth using over Animate Dead at all? According to the wiki the spectres are somewhat comparable to zombies, but they are temporary and the spell is a higher level, so I don't see the point. Also, can Kiku brand artefacts? The Necronomicon doesn't seem too useful for a 3-runer but I may just go for it if I can't rebrand that holy whip, which is serving extremely useful for player ghosts and general anti-undead duty until I get Dispel Undead.
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Nov 29, 2015 07:38
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Death channel doesn't use corpses and creates the spectres passively as you're fighting. They're both really good spells, but I would probably hold off on death channel until later once your defenses are solid and you have reliable melee damage. Kiku can't rebrand artefacts, but I'd still go for the pain brand anyway. Try acquiring a weapon if you have 10+ m&f and a scroll. You stand a fair shot of getting an evening star or demon whip (obviously the best choice) since the scroll tends to give you a type you haven't seen before and the other m&f weapons are quite common. Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 08:07
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Heh, found a randard mace in Crazy Yiuf's collection of former hammers. First time I've actually got a usable weapon off him I think
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Nov 29, 2015 08:14
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Locke Dunnegan posted:Is Death Channel worth using over Animate Dead at all? According to the wiki the spectres are somewhat comparable to zombies, but they are temporary and the spell is a higher level, so I don't see the point. Also, can Kiku brand artefacts? The Necronomicon doesn't seem too useful for a 3-runer but I may just go for it if I can't rebrand that holy whip, which is serving extremely useful for player ghosts and general anti-undead duty until I get Dispel Undead. If you can get Death Channel before orc/lair branches, it will absolutely roflstomp those. Only greater nagas, emperor scropions and turtles in numbers put up any kind or resistance. It drops in usefulness fairly sharply in depths and zot, as monsters kill the specters too fast for a critical mass to form.
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Nov 29, 2015 08:56
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I found Death Channel continues to be great in Depths/Vaults/Zot. When you're fighting a group you get many more undead (every kill - not just the ones that left a corpse) joining the fight throughout, rapidly turning the tide in your favour. In addition, you still get the corpses at the end for animate or embrace or food or whatever. Also, zombies are temporary too (but I stand by my answer even for versions where that's not the case).
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Nov 29, 2015 09:04
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code:Pakellas is a pretty fun god, basically the god of infinite teleport/haste/heal wounds one you get to the endgame, plus rods and evocables. The MP conduct is less harsh than it sounds, as long as you don't lean into spells further than basic hybridizing. The inventory cost is real though, I wore the hat of the Alchemist despite better options just to have all my resists on a single item to free up space. I also tried Dis out with the Iron Giants and holy poo poo are they dangerous. They're tanky and can hit hard, and Hell effects drop them fairly often. I got 5 packs of them on Dis:7 and burned a ton of haste/blink to handle them. Getting petrified against one would be a death sentence.
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Nov 29, 2015 11:44
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 A fellow HEAE fell to Ziggurat greed 
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Nov 29, 2015 12:29
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apple posted:
She lost that one to pain mirror of all things, I remember I was talking to her at the time and I couldn't stop being amazed at it. The zig danger is real. 
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Nov 29, 2015 12:37
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Someone want to give a rundown on Pakellas? Sounds interesting but I don't know much about it.
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