|
Amun Khonsu posted:Regarding this comment, it is wrong. Arabs didnt write the Qur'an, which is the beginning subject of this discussion. The Qur'an is God's Word and the primary source of the religion of Islam. He holds no prejudices except in matters of Good verses Evil. The Qur'an contains good things about Jews and criticisms about Jews, good things about Christians and criticisms about them, Good things about Muslims and criticisms about them. So, on this-- is it pretty much accepted that Muhammed got the literal word of God correct in the Qur'an, and that it's stayed unchanged since they wrote it down soon after his death? I hear that's an issue with the christian bible, since it's other dudes writing about Jesus talking about what God says. (I am not very learned about religion, if that was unclear.)
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 01:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 11:30 |
|
|
Patrick Spens posted:Everybody in the thread knows what semite means. If you want to be convincing, I would recommend that you find evidence that people actually use the phrase "anti-Semitic" to refer to hatred of Arabs in general, and not just when defending Arabs/Muslims against accusations of anti-Jewish prejudice. I dont need to give any more evidence than I have. As I stated, it has nothing to do with Islam and I stated it as "my opinion" a number of times with the tag "IMO". Not all Arabs are Muslims. Some are Jews, Christians, and others. Again, IMO, based on my conversatations in with even some of my Jewish friends and some reading up on it (links given), although "antisemite" is commonly used to refer to Jew hatred, to be an antisemite, one does not have to be only a Jew hater. Good points have been made in this thread on the topic that I have taken into account. I appreciate the evidences provided for me to grow on the topic. However, Im done making the thread about "Jew hate". Lets just end hate of all semites, as well of all other people. Amun Khonsu fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Nov 28, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 16:23
|
|
|
surc posted:So, on this-- is it pretty much accepted that Muhammed got the literal word of God correct in the Qur'an, and that it's stayed unchanged since they wrote it down soon after his death? I hear that's an issue with the christian bible, since it's other dudes writing about Jesus talking about what God says. (I am not very learned about religion, if that was unclear.) Yes, the stance that Islam takes on the holy books is that we believe in the Jewish Torah and the Gospel of Jesus (not of Paul, any other person or the story narrators) in their original forms (as revelations from God) which no longer exist because they were not written until a very long time after. The Qur'an was written down immediately by the companions of the Prophet but not put in its "canonized" version until 18 years after the Prophet's death and cross references with his personal secretary, Zaid Ibn Thabit. We believe that the Torah was tainted by mainly Jewish nationalism (as well as ascribing sins to the Prophets, such as King David's adultery and murder, etc) and the Gospel of Jesus was tainted by pagan ideology and philosophy (mainly due to the teachings of Paul). Though certain writers are ascribed to the books of the Torah and Gospel by scholars of these Scripture, there is no solid or independent evidence to support that those are in fact the people who wrote the books. So, we believe that they still have some truth in them but the truth of them has been tainted by human prejudice, foreign ideology and human memory failings that naturally happen when people pass down stories from generation to generation. Therefore they cannot be trusted and should be filtered through Qur'anic understanding. Because these books are revelations from God that the Jews and Christians have attempted to preserve them (even though they haven't successfully done so) we believe that Jews and Christians are special people among all others (People of the Book) and have protected status in Islam. We are allowed to intermarry with them, encourage them to attend their services, help maintain their churches and synagogues, etc. Amun Khonsu fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Nov 28, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 16:42
|
|
|
Amun Khonsu posted:help maintain their churches and synagogues, etc. these guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nusaybah_clan
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 16:53
|
|
|
HEY GAL posted:which you do; the keys to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem were turned over to a Muslim family to administer in Ottoman times, probably because the Ottomans knew they couldn't trust us not to be massive douchebags to one another over the church But at the same time in the Hagia Sofia they painted over a lot of the frescoes depicting Jesus, so as usual there are examples of both. There are lovely people in every religion. Often those lovely people end up in positions of authority and power. It sucks. The whole anti-Jewish sentiment is the same way. Most versions of the Bible actually have a lot more antisemitic (Yeah I said it, shutup) stuff in them than the Quran, and Muslims were actually living rather peacefully with Jews in what is now Israel for almost a thousand years. It wasn't until Ottoman rule that there was forced resettlement of Jews, and even then there wasn't that much tension. Most of it is from the last 200 years and is purely political in nature, if you actually look at the religions in terms of a continuum (Monotheism 1.0 - 3.0) Islam and Judaism are closer to each other than either of them is to modern Christianity. It's like Judaism is Windows 98 and Islam is XP. Christianity was ME. If God was Microsoft, he made a good thing, then tried something a little different that ended up being a little too different, so then they converted it back to something much more like the first iteration. Yes I realize this is a dumb analogy but I'm half asleep and on a phone.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 17:22
|
|
|
Fuzz posted:Christianity was ME. That's kind of mean.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 20:54
|
|
|
Fizzil posted:a war niqab  ashgromnies posted:I think it's hard for western agnostics and atheists to understand. The texts obviously weren't metaphorical in the time of Mohammed -- the ugly parts of the Quran, like chopping the hands off thieves, were reality in those times. So the prevailing and earliest historical precedent is non-metaphorical, but now people are expected to pick and choose parts that should be read as metaphorical. And yeah, you're right. The problem with any text as generalized as religious texts usually are is that you can basically take away any point of view you want to support; I'd be lying if I said that the views more progressive schools of Islamic thought hold were the majority, we are by far the minority. Al Baghdadi is a Muslim. To me, anyone who believes in the shahada is a Muslim. Are there standards to meet in order to be a "good" or practicing Muslim? Yeah, there are, though what they are is going to depend on who you talk to. But the core belief of Islam is encompassed in the shahada: There is no god but God (this concept encompasses the essential belief in tawhid, etc as well), and Muhammad is His messenger. That is my take on it. Someone who believes that is a Muslim, no matter how they specifically practice. Muslim does not necessarily mean good person, unfortunately. Just like someone like Al Baghdadi would see me as being a horrible loving degenerate, I see him as being the same. I'm about as likely to be convinced otherwise as he would be about me; the only real difference in the belief about our beliefs is that while he's interested in forcing them on other people, I am not. Even someone's beliefs about that are going to vary widely, so it comes down to hair-splitting but of a sort that is actually pretty important. I'm convinced I'm right, they're convinced they're right. That doesn't legitimize their position (or mine to them, I suppose), but to say they're not Muslims when from what I can see the leaders are generally pretty devout vis a vis the core beliefs in the shahada is disingenuous and pretty dangerous. In short, he's a real Muslim, but also a piece of human garbage. Those things aren't mutually exclusive, sadly. Amun Khonsu posted:People declare other people "not-Muslim" far too easily.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2015 00:45
|
|
|
Tendai posted:Many of the scholars I've read have basically said that accusing someone of this is basically the most heinous crime one can commit in terms of harming another person in a non-violent way, because of the consequences that can come from it in the most orthodox interpretations of Islam and simply the fact that it's attacking what's probably a very essential part of who a person is. I admittedly wince internally whenever I see that poo poo being tossed around on Islamic forums and such, it's kind of a Serious loving Thing in my opinion, not something that should be tossed casually at people. The spiritual equivalent of accusing someone of being a pedophile, you could say. Yes. And though I take the hadith with a "grain of salt", there is a Sahih hadith (there are many of them) that says, "The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "When a person calls his brother (in Islam) a disbeliever, one of them will certainly deserve the title. If the addressee is so as he has asserted, the disbelief of the man is confirmed, but if it is untrue, then it will revert to him." (Sahih Bukhari and Muslim) Since only Allah knows the hearts of mankind, the scholars unanimously agree that it is forbidden to declare someone a hypocrite or disbeliever unless a reputable shari'ah court demonstrates there is a clear violation of the First Pillar of Islam or they declare it themselves. "And thy Lord knows all that their hearts conceal and all that they reveal." Qur'an 28:69 Amun Khonsu fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Nov 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2015 04:16
|
|
|
What are muslim funeral customs? What is the "correct" way to tell someone you are really sorry their dad died. Am I offending anyone if I send her flowers like I would any other friend who lost their father?
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2015 13:25
|
|
|
BattyKiara posted:What are muslim funeral customs? What is the "correct" way to tell someone you are really sorry their dad died. Am I offending anyone if I send her flowers like I would any other friend who lost their father? Typically, the family mourns in private for the first 3 days and only close family members visit them at their private home. During this time the body is washed and prepared for burial. It will then be taken to the Mosque where a special prayer service (Janazah) will be held after one of the formal prayer times. Immediately afterwards the body will be brought to the graveyard and buried. The family typically invites people (can be anyone) to the burial. There is nothing wrong with sending flowers or offering condolences to the family after the Janazah, sent to the families home or given to them after burial. It is customary to hold a more open "dinner" gathering to invite a larger group of family and friends at the home of the family and read Qur'an or talk about the life of the person. Anyone the family invites can come. In addition to this, some cultures hold a special Qur'an reading called a Khatam and they invite anyone the family wishes to those. The important thing to remember is that the family has the right to mourn in private for the first 3 days. This basically means that people that are not close family should not try to contact them during that time. After that, then its okay. Amun Khonsu fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Nov 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2015 13:51
|
|
|
Amun Khonsu posted:Typically, the family mourns in private for the first 3 days and only close family members visit them at their private home. During this time the body is washed and prepared for burial. It will then be taken to the Mosque where a special prayer service (Janazah) will be held after one of the formal prayer times. Immediately afterwards the body will be brought to the graveyard and buried. The family typically invites people (can be anyone) to the burial. Thank you. It's a co-worker posting on FaceBook that she just lost her dad and is sorry she can't go back to the funeral. I know they were quite close, so I guess she is pretty down right now. I'll give it a few days the call her.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2015 14:03
|
|
|
I've always really liked Muslim death rituals/customs. There's a practicality to it for me -- let the family have a few days to grieve and kind of get their poo poo together enough to deal with people who aren't family, then invite people to the burial and finally have a time to remember the person who's died and get some comfort if possible. Islam as a whole is pretty big on "natural" burials too, without all the preservatives and ten thousand dollar boxes or whatever; just a shroud and a burial in the ground. A couple years ago my mom actually asked me about it on the random chance that I die before her or my sister, and she was kind of startled at how simple it was. Mostly the hard part in the U.S. might be the relatively fast burial time depending on autopsies and things like that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2015 16:12
|
|
|
Yeah, you're actually supposed to bury them before sundown of the next day, officially speaking. It's literally exactly the same as it is in Judaism, and a Khatam is really similar to sitting Shiva.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2015 16:52
|
|
|
Amun Khonsu posted:Typically, the family mourns in private for the first 3 days and only close family members visit them at their private home. During this time the body is washed and prepared for burial. It will then be taken to the Mosque where a special prayer service (Janazah) will be held after one of the formal prayer times. Immediately afterwards the body will be brought to the graveyard and buried. The family typically invites people (can be anyone) to the burial. Huh, in Singapore, everything happens in a day. Everything is supposed to be done the day after the passing, by sundown. This includes (in order) the wake, the prayer, and then the burial. Word spreads really quickly, and whoever wants to turn up at the wake is welcome - no restrictions on whether you're Muslim or not, or whether you're direct family. I've been to funerals for relatives of coworkers, classmates, distant cousins. Mainly its sitting around chatting, offering your condolences when you get the chance (the hosts are likely to be swamped). I've never actually witnessed any heavy grieving during the wake or the funeral. Emotional grieving seems to only occur at the deathbed, assuming there is an opportunity. I think the rituals and the work that needs to be done preparing the deceased keeps your mind off things. I know that when my grandmother passed a few years ago, I was kept busy running errands and greeting guests. By the time the burial was done (around 3pm), we'd all resumed laughing and joking again. Typically the day after the funeral, everyone is more or less back to normal. It might be a reflection of our work culture in Singapore, though, I'm not certain. EDIT: Also, it's kinda viewed as your duty as a responsible Muslim to engage in Janazah prayers when you have the opportunity. So sometimes I drop by funerals of distant family friends (at my parents request), just to pray. Most times I don't even get to see the host or pass on my condolences. Arrive, hang out a bit, pray, leave. Zakmonster fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Dec 3, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2015 09:50
|
|
|
Also to chime in on the topic of literal vs metaphorical: It's going to be a long and arduous process to determine what is literal and what is metaphorical, and figuring out how reform can happen. It's not just looking at the hadith and trying to figure out RAI vs RAW. It's also ensuring that the religion and its practices as commanded by God is not tainted by negative foreign influences. Modern progressive views on human rights and equality is all fine, but that doesn't mean the laws of the religion can be changed on a whim. For example: God says marriage is for a man and a woman, and butt stuff is a sin. Doesn't make being gay a sin, it just means you can't have gay sex. Is this fair to a gay person? No, definitely not, but a large part of the religion is denying yourself certain pleasures (I hear sex is amazing), because God said so. We can only assume that our rewards for being disciplined is commensurate, once comes the afterlife. Also look at a lot of these popular 'barbaric Muslim practices'. Almost all of them are cultural practices shoe-horned into the religion, and just carried forward generation to generation because of poor education and general ignorance, and the desire of too many authority figures to abuse their power and influence. A lot about Islam has already been tainted by negative foreign influences, and before any progressive ideas can be included, we first need to rid the religion of such influences, and divorce cultural practices from religious practices. That's the reform that needs to happen. The problem is going to some small village in India or Sudan or Indonesia and telling them that 'hey this thing you've been doing for 15 generations isn't actually an Islam thing, you need to stop' and good luck with getting that to happen.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2015 10:07
|
|
|
Zakmonster posted:Huh, in Singapore, everything happens in a day. Everything is supposed to be done the day after the passing, by sundown. This includes (in order) the wake, the prayer, and then the burial. Word spreads really quickly, and whoever wants to turn up at the wake is welcome - no restrictions on whether you're Muslim or not, or whether you're direct family. I've been to funerals for relatives of coworkers, classmates, distant cousins. Mainly its sitting around chatting, offering your condolences when you get the chance (the hosts are likely to be swamped). ofc, you are supposed to bury asap (that can be immediate or a number of days), but this varies from country to country depending on local laws and restrictions. I'm speaking generally and from my experience with Islamic institutions in the US and EU. Also, local customs can vary slightly as you have indicated.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2015 13:45
|
|
|
Are wild boars halal? I mean this kind of animal. On one hand, pink pigs are a relatively recent breed, so that animal is probably closer to what the ancient Jews and Mohammed were thinking about when they forbade "pork". On the other hand, I went to look at a wild boar enclosure while on a hike with a muslim friend, and she was all about how cute they were. We didn't touch or eat them, though, so 
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2015 10:01
|
|
|
pidan posted:Are wild boars halal? I mean this kind of animal. No, they would not be halal. Allah says in the Quran (2:173), "He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, [b]the flesh of swine]/b], and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." So, this would include all species of swine since there is no distinction made. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2015 11:10
|
|
|
It ends up basically being anything that's carnivorous or omnivorous. You can eat herbivores, that's it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2015 15:53
|
|
|
Fuzz posted:It ends up basically being anything that's carnivorous or omnivorous. You can eat herbivores, that's it. Did you know that beavers are dogs of the sea? So don't eat beaver. That one has always bewildered me a little bit. Other variations in Islam include "yes if it has scales but no if it doesn't," and "everything but squid and frogs."
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2015 16:19
|
|
|
Fuzz posted:It ends up basically being anything that's carnivorous or omnivorous. You can eat herbivores, that's it. I have some bad news for you about most bird species
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2015 20:44
|
|
|
religious dietary laws always rest on rules lawyering and dubious science, i can eat invertebrates during Lent but not meat (if I refrained from eating meat when I should, which I don't) because they aren't "animals" according to what people believed in the Byzantine empire in the 6th century AD
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2015 20:46
|
|
|
Unrelated to food but this was a really, really well-done write-up on the progressive Islam Reddit sub. It deals with the afterlife and how none of us really know who's going where or what the ratio is. It's written by someone who's fairly devout from what it seems like, so it's definitely a bit more "Wow, Allah!" than what I'd usually throw up here BUT all the same it's a pretty good exploration of why the whole "only people who truly believe right now will go to heaven, all you infidels are going to hell" mindset is so antithetical to what many of us more moderate types believe. The overall question is from someone struggling with belief in the face of the orthodox view on who goes where after death, essentially, and rather than parroting the common line of "good disbelievers just didn't try hard enough, they're still a sinning kafir" this lady wrote a response talking about the unknowability (gently caress you that's a word) of the afterlife:quote:Surah Al Baqara refutes certain Jews' claim that "the fire shall touch us only for a few numbered days" with the very certain "Yes! Whosoever earns evil and his sin has surrounded him, they are dwellers of the Fire (i.e. Hell); they will dwell therein forever." Tendai fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Dec 5, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2015 23:05
|
|
|
Why is green such an important colour in Islam? Are there other colour symbolisms as well?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2015 11:53
|
|
|
Zakmonster posted:
Is it common to believe God is unfair? Christians tend to believe either God is fine with homosexuality or being gay is a choice, I've never come across one who would even consider God is unjust. Are there particular passages in the Koran that unambiguously condemn being gay or having gay sex?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2015 16:07
|
|
|
BattyKiara posted:Why is green such an important colour in Islam? Are there other colour symbolisms as well? It is a colour worn in Paradise as a reward for good deeds Quran 76:20-22 "And when you look there [in Paradise], you will see pleasure and great dominion. Upon the inhabitants will be green garments of fine silk and brocade. And they will be adorned with bracelets of silver, and their Lord will give them a purifying drink. [And it will be said], "Indeed, this is for you a reward, and your effort has been appreciated.""
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2015 16:19
|
|
|
BattyKiara posted:Why is green such an important colour in Islam? Are there other colour symbolisms as well? That is all my psychological conjecture though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2015 16:33
|
|
|
bitterandtwisted posted:Is it common to believe God is unfair? Christians tend to believe either God is fine with homosexuality or being gay is a choice, I've never come across one who would even consider God is unjust. I wouldnt go so far as to say Christianity is fine with homosexuality. I know there is a hell of a lot of heated debate on that and bible verses that fly back and forth. Qur'an says this: "And [We had sent] Lot when he said to his people, "Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds? Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people."" Quran 7:80-81 "Do you approach males among the worlds. And leave what your Lord has created for you as mates? But you are a people transgressing." Quran 26:165-166 "Do you indeed approach men with desire instead of women? Rather, you are a people behaving ignorantly." Quran 27:55 "And that He creates the two mates - the male and female" Quran 53:45 "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful." Quran 4:16
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2015 16:43
|
|
|
bitterandtwisted posted:Is it common to believe God is unfair? Christians tend to believe either God is fine with homosexuality or being gay is a choice, I've never come across one who would even consider God is unjust. I wouldn't go so far as to say God is unjust. He will judge people fairly on their choices and the circumstances that brought them to those choices. What I was trying to say is that life is not fair for everyone - people should be treated equally, but not everyone's circumstances are equal.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2015 16:54
|
|
|
Zakmonster posted:I wouldn't go so far as to say God is unjust. He will judge people fairly on their choices and the circumstances that brought them to those choices. God as not totally just is a Gnostic idea and that whole movement was heavily suppressed by all the monotheistic religions.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2015 18:51
|
|
|
bitterandtwisted posted:Is it common to believe God is unfair? Christians tend to believe either God is fine with homosexuality or being gay is a choice, I've never come across one who would even consider God is unjust. My understanding of the official Catholic position on homosexuality is that people with homosexual desires (people who identify as gay and bisexual, but presumably also anyone with those desires who identifies as straight) are as God made them, and you should love them, but they still shouldn't have gay sex because it's wrong (like any sex outside of marriage, or masturbation). More generally, I think God/Allah being unfair (or giving certain people additional challenges) is preferable to a world where people deserve whatever bad things happen to them. Even if we take homosexuality off the table for the moment, there's still the issue of certain people being born with birth defects or disabilities, myself included. It's pretty lovely to say that an all-powerful God let that happen because we deserve it. To actually ask a question in this thread, instead of rambling on about things: what is the general understanding of people with handicaps in Islam?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2015 22:38
|
|
|
PT6A posted:My understanding of the official Catholic position on homosexuality is that people with homosexual desires (people who identify as gay and bisexual, but presumably also anyone with those desires who identifies as straight) are as God made them, and you should love them, but they still shouldn't have gay sex because it's wrong (like any sex outside of marriage, or masturbation). Its a core principle of Islam to care for the handicapped and visit them regularly. Allah greatly rewards us for caring for them. Being handicapped (or ill in any fashion) is considered a "trial" from Allah. As a result, handicapped people (and the sick) are forgiven by Allah for their sins more easily than people without the challenge or trials associated with it. Depending on severity of the handicapped the consensus is that they may not be held accountable for any "sins" and go to Paradise (Jennah) when they die. Their handicap or illness is their jihad (struggle) and if they die as a result of their handicap they get the reward of martyrdom.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 01:08
|
|
|
Amun Khonsu posted:Its a core principle of Islam to care for the handicapped and visit them regularly. Allah greatly rewards us for caring for them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0yA2Mi0NLo There is a growing movement to end the stigma, however, it's a pretty personal thing, changing the perceptions of people with family members who are disabled.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 03:30
|
|
|
Tendai posted:That being said, the lack of this in a lot of predominantly-Muslim areas is a huge issue. I think I posted this talk Dr. Nakshawani did, dude legit made me cry as a person with a disability, when he talked about how it hurts a mother's heart to see how people treat their child. The whole thing was good but that just wrecked me when I got there. For anyone who might have missed it: Yeah, unfortunately there are a lot of a$$holes too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 08:58
|
|
|
Amun Khonsu posted:Yeah, unfortunately there are a lot of a$$holes too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 14:24
|
|
|
Religion can't change lovely cultural mores. Film at 11.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 17:27
|
|
|
Tendai posted:Sort of. Until you go in the water, then it turns into the usual argument. Most people think the carnivores-are-haram thing doesn't apply to ocean creatures, so people can eat crab, tuna and the like. Then there's the subset of the Shafi'i school of jurisprudence that believes that every terrestrial animal has an aquatic counterpart and you can eat only those things that have a halal terrestrial version. It's worth noting that Iranian scholars adjusted their scales-related justification for the sort of fish that produce most Iranian caviar, because when it was forbidden for a bit the Iranian fishing industry lost a ton of money.  I love technicality arguments in religion, not least because some of them are totally not rooted in economics and it's mean to say they are.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2015 02:04
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:It's worth noting that Iranian scholars adjusted their scales-related justification for the sort of fish that produce most Iranian caviar, because when it was forbidden for a bit the Iranian fishing industry lost a ton of money.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2015 02:11
|
|
|
How do you feel about the Obama administration's plea to American Muslims for self-policing and self-reporting of people believed to be flirting with radicalism?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 16:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 11:30 |
|
|
ashgromnies posted:How do you feel about the Obama administration's plea to American Muslims for self-policing and self-reporting of people believed to be flirting with radicalism?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 19:52
|
|