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Zarick posted:Someone want to give a rundown on Pakellas? Sounds interesting but I don't know much about it. God centered around evokable/wand use, experimental branch on CBRO. Written by Grunt, I think? Worshipping Pakellas stops natural mana regen, and conduct forbids using channeling to restore mana (CBOE, Staff of Energy/Wucad Mu, others?) though potions of magic and ambrosia are fine. You regain mana by killing enemies or using Pakellas' active abilities. At 1*, Pakellas gives you an ability to empty your mana pool in order to recharge a wand or rod; the amount of charges scales witn (iirc) piety, the size of your mana pool/how full it is, and evoc skill? Maybe? Mana isn't hard to come by so I think you can imagine how good of an ability this alone is. You can use it to recharge your combat rods to keep nuking things, or to keep your HW wand going for days. Or, you know, whatever! Other Pakellas stuff includes mana drain (starting with one target, then expanding to multiple at (i believe) 4*?) which does what it says on the tin, but contams you based on mana drained vs mana you can hold, I think. You can get contammed really bad if you use it at full mana around a bunch of casters, so be careful, but it's pretty good if you don't do that. You can also put a "mana sap" on an enemy but I never did that so I don't know wtf it does. At 6* Pak will supercharge a rod, putting it at +10 and giving it a bunch more charge space and just generally making it better. (He can also do... something? to a wand if you for some reason are a Felid worshipping Pakellas.) Pak starts gifting evokers/rods/wands at 4*. Which owns. I'd recommend wearing Faith with him if you're using the actives heavily, they can be pretty piety-hungry. I never found it on my DD though and I was recharging my /HW all the dang time so maybe it's not as necessary as I'm making it sound. Overall I think he's a fun and different god, though I have to wonder why Nemelex needs to exist when Pak does the evoker-god theme so much less, uh... clunkily. I guess we'll see.
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Nov 29, 2015 14:46
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Pakellas is the god of non deck evocations. At 4* of piety you get gifted any evocable (and your first gift will always be rod if you're not a felid) except decks and crystal balls (more on that in a bit.) The rate is currently slower that Trog gifting, but by the endgame you'll get wands of hasting and heal wounds. The two main abilities you get are recharge on demand (drains 2/3 of your MP to recharge a wand or a rod, but you can't increase the max charges of a rod this way.) The other ability applies up to 3 enchancers to one use of an avocable. I haven't tried it other than on wands so I can't say how good it is. Finally you can have Pakellas boost the max charge of a rod or wand as the 6* one time deal (you either get a +10 18/18 rod or a wand with 150% max charge capacity.) From my playtest it takes a while to hit it for the first time and you end up bouncing between 5* and 6* a lot, like with Okawaru. Following Pakellas has one major downside, which is no MP regen, so heavy spellcasting is basically impossible with Pak. Instead you get MP on kills like with Vehumet. Because of this you get penance for any form of channeling, including crystal balls, staves of energy/wucad mu and sublimation of blood. The MP on kills is still relatively high enough that you can recharge wands on a frequent basis even when lesning on them more than usual, and cast some basic support spells like Rmsl or Regen once in a while. The other weakness with Pakellas is no god panic button like Zin or Chei, if you get in trouble you need to use that rod you got as a gift with Device Surge. Inventory management is also a bit of a hassle when you start getting dulicates of good wands. To sum it up Pakellas starts off as the god of extra wand charges, then eventually lets you use evocables as a main source of damage and what is effectively infinite haste/heal wound/teleports. Can Of Worms fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 14:53
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He seems cool and fun, eagerly awaiting him getting bumped from 0.18 in favour of Caustic Ancient Liches
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Nov 29, 2015 16:02
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Bring back Singularity as a level 9 translocations/hexes that doesn't hurt things out of your LoS.
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Nov 29, 2015 16:47
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Stoat posted:He seems cool and fun, eagerly awaiting him getting bumped from 0.18 in favour of Caustic Ancient Liches "Pakellas it up Igni Ipthesailures" will be my 0.18 clan name when he makes it in. You wait.
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Nov 29, 2015 16:58
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Someone Awful! posted:God centered around evokable/wand use, experimental branch on CBRO. Written by Grunt, I think? The Drain Magic and Sap are removed now and Quick Charge now only uses 2/3 of your mana available to make it a little less OP. Also Device Surge is awesome. At 27 evoc, I one shot a Pan Lord with a Iron Rod using the surge ability. World Famous W fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 17:12
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Pakellas sounds super cool. I can't wait to splat dozens of Ogre Batmans in the 0.18 tourney 
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Nov 29, 2015 17:43
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Nice to see Crawl still going strong. As someone who have not touched the game for more than a year (after the greed god appeared I think), what cool stuff should I try/be aware of when I dip into it again?
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Nov 29, 2015 18:43
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Do not gently caress around with Death Cobs, they will eat you alive.
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Nov 29, 2015 18:44
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Jeek posted:Nice to see Crawl still going strong. As someone who have not touched the game for more than a year (after the greed god appeared I think), what cool stuff should I try/be aware of when I dip into it again? LoS/range is a square instead of a circle, which is wonderful.
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Nov 29, 2015 19:57
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Angry Diplomat posted:Pakellas sounds super cool. I can't wait to splat dozens of Ogre Batmans in the 0.18 tourney Just remember, Ogre Batman would never use a Shotgun rod. 
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Nov 29, 2015 20:16
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Zaodai posted:Just remember, Ogre Batman would never use a Shotgun rod.  If Batman would use a shotgun on owls, Ogre Batman would use a shotgun on caustic shrikes
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Nov 29, 2015 21:05
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The Minotaur gave me two +4 Rods of Clouds and a +3 Rod of Iron so once again I'm a Shotgun Necromancer. I dropped a potion of experience and all my other experience for a level or two on evo to get it from 3 to 15 and I'm laying down negative/fire/cold clouds and blowing holes through people while my zombies walk into the clouds and die. It's chaotic and stupid and I love it. I also found Boots of the Assassin for cheap in Orc:4 so now I'm one + from the max Stlth in the player sheet with only 10 points into Stealth, and I'm holy whip-stabbing people to death. Also earlier on I killed Natasha with her own reanimated corpse a couple times. This game is weird and I love it.
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Nov 29, 2015 21:54
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Zarick posted:Someone want to give a rundown on Pakellas? Sounds interesting but I don't know much about it. the bastard child of Pikel and Fedhas
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Nov 29, 2015 23:28
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Floodkiller posted:
And probably get his poo poo wrecked just the same. C'mon Batman, you can aim better than that!
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Nov 30, 2015 00:32
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Why. Just why.quote:Regeneration amulet rots on removal I feel like this is attacking something few people actually did, and then overcorrecting for it. The main use of regen is in-battle, who gives a poo poo if people swap it in after fights to heal a bit quicker. E: Basically you're not going to use regen at all now once you're in parts of the game where clarity/rmut/rcorr/warding are important. Tactical jewellery swapping? Why would we want that? Haifisch fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 05:34
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For what it's worth I see people do it all the time. Less now that it's an amulet but that's just because every other amulet is trash except faith and you can't swap faith. Of course the real problem is that the whole concept of health regenerating over time is awful and there's basically no way to fix that. megane fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 05:38
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Reading down the commit list more:quote:Turn the amulet of warding into the amulet of dismissal quote:This is the first step in a series of amulet changes. The first aspect of Same dev. Why the gently caress does he hate tactical swapping so much? Does he think everyone should just pick an amulet and use it forever? What the gently caress are people supposed to do against mutations now? Are rings going to get a bunch of penalities for swapping next? How much of this poo poo is getting reverted in the next week once people realize it was a bad idea?
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Nov 30, 2015 05:41
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so who decided amulet reform was a good thing and when do we get to throw him in a ditch e: seriously, if this stays is tactical ring swapping on the chopping block next? Aka that thing that is actually kind of super-important for juggling resists and stuff, and which (I assumed) is why jewelry was so quick to swap? I thought amulets being quick-swappable was part of that too but apparently I have no loving idea what tactics are acceptable in DCSS design anymore so 
someone awful. fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 05:43
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Okay yeah those are some of the dumbest loving changes I've seen in ages. The new amulet of warding is hilariously terrible. Teleporting enemies away 10% of the time is not a useful effect unless you're speed running or something. Imagine getting a dangerous unique down to low health, then having it teleport away because it hurt you. Now you'll probably have to fight it from full health again. Something that random and unreliable is not going to be used by most players. The fact that it gives yellow glow on removal just makes this even worse. The single pip of rN+ alone made the old amulet far better. Removing rMut is unbelievably dumb and is just going to make the game a huge pain for characters that don't fight primarily with magic. Or if you just get bad RNG. The commit saying "more people should use tactics now" is so stupid. What tactic am I supposed to use in Pan if I get dropped into a level in sight of several mutators at multiple angles? Or I get hit with contamination from a hell effect and don't have tons of cancellation to chug? Gonna go ahead and guess this dev literally never plays extended. Or only plays as blaster mages that can reliably one shot every mutator they see.
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Nov 30, 2015 05:55
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From what I gather the idea is to make it so rings are tactically swappable but amulets aren't, and move amulets that don't make sense under that scheme (like rCorr) to rings.
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Nov 30, 2015 05:56
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megane posted:From what I gather the idea is to make it so rings are tactically swappable but amulets aren't, and move amulets that don't make sense under that scheme (like rCorr) to rings. how is rMut not in the same class as rCorr though? What makes rMut more problematic that it needs to not exist
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Nov 30, 2015 06:00
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So are we getting a ring of rmut eventually? I know that you can do mut-heavy branches with no rmut, but it's sketchy business and can gently caress you over a lot if you don't have curemut. Either that or make curemut a lot more common to compensate. And agreed on the new warding being hilariously bad for the same reasons few people use distortion: It annoys more than it helps, and removing can gently caress you over. e: Also, maybe this should have been an experimental branch first? This is a lot of huge changes to just dump into trunk. Bigger than adding Pakellas or tweaking elf/orc. Haifisch fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 06:01
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I probably don't want to be teleporting monsters randomly so they can come at me from another angle. So when are they going to get rid of corridors that are only 1 space wide?
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Nov 30, 2015 06:05
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"Bunch of people complaining about stupid changes? Bet it's Lasty!" I love how 95% of the time my assumption that Lasty is behind any change that actively makes things more annoying is correct. EDIT: Like seriously, is anyone surprised that the dude behind the death cob buffs, caustic shrikes (remember them in their original form?), entropy weavers, and juggernauts has added other obnoxious poo poo? The Mattybee fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 06:12
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There should be only one amulet, it should start equipped automatically on all characters as soon as you enter the dungeon. It should be unremovable by any means and start a timer where it slowly strangles you to death, periodically lowering your maximum HP until you die. This will discourage use of carrying around things to use in the future, and encourage you to use them immediately because otherwise you're going to loving die, son. Think tactically about how hosed you are, it's important so you play things the right way.
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Nov 30, 2015 06:18
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Zaodai posted:There should be only one amulet, it should start equipped automatically on all characters as soon as you enter the dungeon. It should be unremovable by any means and start a timer where it slowly strangles you to death, periodically lowering your maximum HP until you die. Also make sure there is only one 'right' way, and nerf any tactics that lead to deviance from this. 
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Nov 30, 2015 06:20
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Someone Awful! posted:Also make sure there is only one 'right' way, and nerf any tactics that lead to deviance from this. The right way is my way, and the rest of you assholes playing your single player game wrong is why we have to make these changes. You're the ones ruining crawl, not me!
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Nov 30, 2015 06:22
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And make sure that if you have to keep nerfing tactics for a challenge, it's always the player's fault and not the challenge's design. (I'm looking at you, V5. Pretty much every nerf is skirting around the fact that doing anything but staying in the initial ambush is the best way to go. Same with the Elf 3 killholing saga.)The Mattybee posted:"Bunch of people complaining about stupid changes? Bet it's Lasty!"
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Nov 30, 2015 06:22
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Haifisch posted:Reading down the commit list more: Ha ha, what? Yeah, I'm done playing until this gets reverted, this is going straight into 'not fun' territory (rot if I wear-ID an amulet, lovely no rmut, lovely random tele-away).
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Nov 30, 2015 06:23
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The Mattybee posted:"Bunch of people complaining about stupid changes? Bet it's Lasty!" He's also the guy who added a bunch of the new negative randart properties (*Confuse! *Corrode! *Drain! So fun!), so, yeah. Not exactly surprising.
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Nov 30, 2015 06:25
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What kinda Crawl game is that guy playing anyway? Regeneration is super powerful, you basically never swap out of it because it gives you a ton of extra HP in combat and the swapping occurs only to cover resists that would otherwise make a combat situation lethal (paralyze sources, rMut because gently caress teleportitis, etc., though anything can happen with randarts). Regeneration also acts as a ghetto amulet of faith with gods that have piety decay which is even more reason to keep it always on. You're punishing players way more for being forced to swap out of amulet of regen, not punishing players who swap-in regen to rest. Amulet of dismissal is a terrible item, I'd put it on the same tier (or worse) as inaccuracy.. Edit: Hauling rMut or other stuff to swap in tactically tends to create interesting scenarios in and of itself. There's already a cost for swapping amulets: time. You get to decide whether you'd rather get malmutated or potentially eat a bolt of draining when your only source of negative resist came from your previous amulet. With no rMut there's actually less interesting scenarios for tactical swapping, even if it means the neqoxec rMut gear check is removed (and I think the neqoxec enemy is the problem there, not rMut). apple fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 06:25
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The rot on removal of regeneration is just pathetic. Hey, want to actually keep the player from just equipping it to heal fast and taking it off? Have it not do anything until the player reaches full health once. There, problem solved without giving it an obnoxious downside that will make people just throw it away as soon as they find it.
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Nov 30, 2015 06:26
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Haifisch posted:And watch it get handwaved away as whining instead of calling out legitimately bad changes. In all seriousness, I honestly can't wait to see how it gets justified as not being retarded. The insane explanations are always my favorite part. Every commit should just be "WHY YOU GOTTA MAKE ME HIT YOU? YOU THINK I LIKE DOING THIS?!"
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Nov 30, 2015 06:27
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I am pretty sure the number of times I get annoyed about a monster teleporting away is way, way higher than the number of times I'm thankful. It was easily the most annoying part of playing Abyssal Knights with distortion weapons. I'm glad Lasty has opted to give EVERYONE the chance to experience it. (pee pee doo doo he is a bad dev)
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Nov 30, 2015 06:29
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wait are they actually removing rMut? what the gently caress
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Nov 30, 2015 06:30
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Luceid posted:wait are they actually removing rMut? what the gently caress Already done in trunk! Have fun! :iamafag:
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Nov 30, 2015 06:32
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God, those amulet changes are awful.Haifisch posted:I'm looking at you, V5. Pretty much every nerf is skirting around the fact that
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Nov 30, 2015 06:33
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I like how the commit says warding was the least interesting amulet. Rather than gourmand, which gives the exciting effect of EAT MORE FOOD.Luceid posted:wait are they actually removing rMut? what the gently caress Just use tactics lol *spawns 5 cacodemons*
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Nov 30, 2015 06:33
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Internet Kraken posted:I like how the commit says warding was the least interesting amulet. Rather than gourmand, which gives the exciting effect of EAT MORE FOOD. Just wait until his food overhaul, then you'll see. Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, motherfucker. [EDIT] And then I remembered Death Cobs and was sad.
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Nov 30, 2015 06:34
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