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What the gently caress is going on?
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Nov 29, 2015 00:14
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Rexroom posted:What the gently caress is going on? An argument between two people who have a history of getting probated in suomiketju.
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Nov 29, 2015 00:57
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Ligur posted:This is what happens when people figure out they are unable to vote to affect things. aahahahahhahahahahahhaa
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Nov 29, 2015 01:49
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quote:you are a loving jew and i am going to kill you. BrienneGetsHanged posted:I was probated in this thread for ironically threatening to kill someone so now I guess I am just going to have to say that in the true spirit of aikido I am going to kick your rear end minkä takia sinä ja muut halla-ahon kaltaiset henkilöt selittelette kirjoituksianne ironialla
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Nov 29, 2015 07:14
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Hogge Wild posted:minkä takia sinä ja muut halla-ahon kaltaiset henkilöt selittelette kirjoituksianne ironialla I'm not sure BGH has written anything serious in this thread yet. He's mostly being a parody of people.
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Nov 29, 2015 08:23
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Valiantman posted:I'm not sure BGH has written anything serious in this thread yet. He's mostly being a parody of people. trying to parody people here is only going to get you mistaken for the genuine article thanks, poe's law
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Nov 29, 2015 09:52
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Ligur posted:IIRC some punk wanted to meet me in this thread for a beer so he could properly observe how cowardly I am, but didn't like his options after learning I teach people how to kick and punch. That was me and offer still stands. We live in a different parts of the country so of course setting this event is difficult. And I am tougher guy than you because I dare to walk streets at night even though I can't kick or punch for poo poo. Ligur posted:I just don't give a poo poo. Like the world's biggest  Hopefully you have donated hefty sum for womens turvakoti, oh defender of women?So how about some Finnish politics? Why our current government gets away with all their enormous lies and gently caress ups? How we have come to this point? Jäätteenmäki and Ike had to leave for much less incompetence.
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Nov 29, 2015 16:22
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To be honest the real problem is once again Kauhava.
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Nov 29, 2015 16:32
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What does this Hallintarekisteri do in practice? They keep talking about it and mentioning it every day on news articles but none of them put in any info on what it does or how it works, besides that all sensible officials are against it and it supposedly helps tax evasion.
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Nov 29, 2015 16:38
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Gortarius posted:What does this Hallintarekisteri do in practice? They keep talking about it and mentioning it every day on news articles but none of them put in any info on what it does or how it works, besides that all sensible officials are against it and it supposedly helps tax evasion. Hides ownership information of various financial products, a good way of not paying tax and hiding conflicts of interest.
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Nov 29, 2015 16:54
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Stubi has a massive stiffy for the hallintarekisteri, which is all you need to know about it
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Nov 29, 2015 17:09
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Bensa posted:Hides ownership information of various financial products, a good way of not paying tax and hiding conflicts of interest. So what the hell sort of excuse do they have for trying to implement it?
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Nov 29, 2015 17:22
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Gortarius posted:So what the hell sort of excuse do they have for trying to implement it? I suppose not having to pay tax could contribute to improving tekemisen meininki or something. It's part of the talkoohenki we have going on.
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Nov 29, 2015 17:24
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Gortarius posted:So what the hell sort of excuse do they have for trying to implement it? Seriouspost: KANSA ON VALINNUT
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Nov 29, 2015 17:24
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Fish of hemp posted:So how about some Finnish politics? Why our current government gets away with all their enormous lies and gently caress ups? What's the alternative?
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Nov 29, 2015 17:29
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Hob_Gadling posted:What's the alternative? Communism
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Nov 29, 2015 17:38
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Friendly Tumour posted:Communism No, I asked what the alternative was?
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Nov 29, 2015 17:39
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Gortarius posted:So what the hell sort of excuse do they have for trying to implement it? It supposedly will make the rich invest in Finland more and create jobs. That's how Kok sells all their policies.
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Nov 29, 2015 18:07
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doverhog posted:It supposedly will make the rich invest in Finland more and create jobs. That's how Kok sells all their policies. Foreign investors already have a hallintarekisteri though? This one only affects finns. Why would Stub deceive us like that?
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Nov 29, 2015 18:17
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Hob_Gadling posted:What's the alternative? Government that doesn't lie and gently caress things up. If you think that is impossible then I have to ask: why haven't you committed suicide? An honest question. If everything is going to be poo poo forever and communism is an impossibility, what is the point of living? You know it is just going to get worse, why wait that.
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Nov 29, 2015 18:58
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Fish of hemp posted:
Seeing all this poo poo unfold is pretty funny to be honest. You'd miss that if you killed yourself.
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Nov 29, 2015 19:05
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Fish of hemp posted:Government that doesn't lie and gently caress things up. dsyp
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Nov 29, 2015 19:12
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Fish of hemp posted:If everything is going to be poo poo forever and communism is an impossibility, what is the point of living? D&D.txt I still have beer and they don't serve that in heaven.
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Nov 29, 2015 19:17
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Hob_Gadling posted:No, I asked what the alternative was? Look at Canada.
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Nov 29, 2015 19:33
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SnowblindFatal posted:Look at Canada. Are you suggesting we murder all the Saami people?
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Nov 29, 2015 19:35
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Fish of hemp posted:An honest question. If everything is going to be poo poo forever and communism is an impossibility, what is the point of living? You know it is just going to get worse, why wait that. Me ollaan kaikki samassa veneessä, mutta me kaikki kuollaan yksin. Jos et oo lukenu Kershaw'n The End:iä, niin spoiler: Jopa Hitlerin Saksan viimeisinä päivinä aika moni asukki päätti olla tappamatta itteään. Toki moni tappoi ittensä, varsinkin naiset idässä koska punainen peto jee än ee, mutta moni oli tappamatta. Asioiden pitää olla aika paskasti että "yleisten syiden" (LOL) takia käy itteltänsä henkeä riistämmään. Joo, Alex Schtubbbbb on liskoihminen pahimmasta päästä, elää muiden kärsimyksestä ja tulee kuolemaan varakkaana ja onnellisena. Sibis vie tasavallan vessanpönttöön ja saa palkinnoksi viran Brysselistä. Soini kuolee veritulppaan. Siitä huolimatta elämä valtaosalle immeisistä jatkuu. Ja he haluavat sen jatkuvan. Ei se ole Irman elämässä niin justiinsa valehteleeko joku valtioneuvostossa, Irmaa huolettaa lastenlapsien koulutie ja eläkkeelle lähtö. Oot aika sekaisin jos meinaat että kaikkien pitäis tappaa ittensä koska asiat ei tästä paremmaksi muutu. LOL, vitsi vitsi, tappakaa ittenne, kaikki on paskaa
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Nov 29, 2015 19:55
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Bensa posted:Hides ownership information of various financial products, a good way of not paying tax and hiding conflicts of interest. You haven't actually explained what they do, you've just repeated a common media complaint about it. How is ownership hidden by organisations that track/register/transfer ownership rights? How come in many systems where this has been done under a system that allows competition for years (pretty much everywhere except Finland) people still go abroad to hide taxes (i.e. Swiss bank accounts, Cayman shell corporations) instead of just "using a dodgy hallintarekisteri"? Do you think the US, Germany and Britain's tracking of individual stock holdings is any worse than Finland's? Basically, instead of being lazy and just repeating what the media and Li Andersson's twatter account tells you, how about you actually break it down for me to show you understand what a hallintarekisteri is: 1) What is the current system for registering share ownership? 2) What is the proposed system for registering share ownership? 3) How does the proposed system facilitate tax dodging? 4) What safeguards can be taken against the system facilitating tax dodging?
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Nov 29, 2015 20:58
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Geriatric Pirate posted:You haven't actually explained what they do, you've just repeated a common media complaint about it. How is ownership hidden by organisations that track/register/transfer ownership rights? How come in many systems where this has been done under a system that allows competition for years (pretty much everywhere except Finland) people still go abroad to hide taxes (i.e. Swiss bank accounts, Cayman shell corporations) instead of just "using a dodgy hallintarekisteri"? Do you think the US, Germany and Britain's tracking of individual stock holdings is any worse than Finland's? Could you please explain the reasons why we should move to a hallintarekisteri in the first place? Our government certainly hasn't done that
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Nov 29, 2015 21:18
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It's a no-brainer. If a proposed law is so awful that Stubb finds it necessary to lie the teeth out of his mouth, then it must be hilariously bad and is only serving EK's interests.
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Nov 29, 2015 21:41
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Gortarius posted:So what the hell sort of excuse do they have for trying to implement it? "Everybody else is doing it too!"
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Nov 29, 2015 22:06
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Geriatric Pirate posted:Do you think the US, Germany and Britain's tracking of individual stock holdings is any worse than Finland's? 90% of the civil servants in whose area of expertise this thing falls sure seem to think so.
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Nov 29, 2015 22:12
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I forget: is Geriatric Pirate an actual lahtari or just stupid?
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Nov 29, 2015 22:29
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Jerry Cotton posted:I forget: is Geriatric Pirate an actual lahtari or just stupid? An actual lahtari
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Nov 29, 2015 22:32
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Geriatric Pirate posted:How is ownership hidden by organisations that track/register/transfer ownership rights? The ability of law-enforcement to track criminal financial patterns depends on having access to a broad dataset. With hallintarekisteri not all information is immediately available and would need to be specifically requested in an investigation (this varies on the implemented system), but if you would need that data to get to the point where you can show probable cause you're in a catch 22 situation. So its a great way to stop shady business being detected unless something else pops up elsewhere that can be used to justify data requests. And it won't stop there, you can bet if it goes through that further obfuscating measures will follow which will also serve the interests of the same people. If you've happened to visit a bank recently you should know that anyone with an ordinary bank account needs to tell the bank all sorts of information about incoming and outgoing transactions, possible values and countries for foreign transfers etc. If the government is leaning so hard on the banks to collect information from low net-worth individuals to cut down on the grey market, money laundering etc, then why shouldn't investments be subject to such data collection? The amounts of money involved and the ability of those involved in concealing dealings are far greater. The justification for this is the same as the government cutting down the funding of the financial investigation division, which is efficient enough to actually turn a profit so its not an actual cost cutting measure. Its not about business or a financially sound systems, its purely ideological/cronyism/corruption. Edit: And whats the possible benefit? Less paperwork for banks? Bensa fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 22:33
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Jerry Cotton posted:I forget: is Geriatric Pirate an actual lahtari or just stupid? false dilemma he is both
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Nov 29, 2015 22:42
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El Perkele posted:false dilemma 
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Nov 29, 2015 23:03
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Andrast posted:Could you please explain the reasons why we should move to a hallintarekisteri in the first place? Our government certainly hasn't done that There are basically no good reasons other than "everyone else has done it and the EU sort of wants us to do it", but it doesn't make a big difference either way. Here are some potential reasons though: https://www.fkl.fi/ajankohtaista/tiedotteet/Sivut/Miksi_finanssiala_kannattaa_hallintarekisteria_I.aspx (for the lazy/people who can't read, they are 1) useful for large investors who need to offer their shares for collateral / shorting 2) compliant with EU rules 3) helps small Finnish banks) Herman Merman posted:90% of the civil servants in whose area of expertise this thing falls sure seem to think so. Yeah and the Bank of Finland, most banks and Finance Ministry are for it, but do you know what it actually is? Bensa posted:The ability of law-enforcement to track criminal financial patterns depends on having access to a broad dataset. With hallintarekisteri not all information is immediately available and would need to be specifically requested in an investigation (this varies on the implemented system), but if you would need that data to get to the point where you can show probable cause you're in a catch 22 situation. So its a great way to stop shady business being detected unless something else pops up elsewhere that can be used to justify data requests. And it won't stop there, you can bet if it goes through that further obfuscating measures will follow which will also serve the interests of the same people. edit: I should say I mean hallintarekisteri as it's currently proposed in Finland, where the data would still be made public 4 times per year quote:If you've happened to visit a bank recently you should know that anyone with an ordinary bank account needs to tell the bank all sorts of information about incoming and outgoing transactions, possible values and countries for foreign transfers etc. If the government is leaning so hard on the banks to collect information from low net-worth individuals to cut down on the grey market, money laundering etc, then why shouldn't investments be subject to such data collection? The amounts of money involved and the ability of those involved in concealing dealings are far greater. quote:The justification for this is the same as the government cutting down the funding of the financial investigation division, which is efficient enough to actually turn a profit so its not an actual cost cutting measure. Its not about business or a financially sound systems, its purely ideological/cronyism/corruption. Geriatric Pirate fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 23:17
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Let's consult dear leader.quote:Tääkin on taas semmonen tärkeä asia, että meidän täytyy saada Suomeen pääomia, täytyy saada Suomeen sijoituksia ja me ollaan niinku vähä investoinneissa oltu sellaisessa pullonkaulatilanteessa, täytyy tehdä sellainen järjestelmä jolla asiat saadaan sujumaan. Lähde
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Nov 29, 2015 23:36
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Also, why would anyone try to illegally avoid taxes or something using a hallintarekisteri when you can legally avoid taxes and registering your share ownership through financial products that are advertised on the main webpages of our biggest banks: OP https://www.op.fi/media/liitteet?cid=151671410&srcpl=4 Nordea http://www.nordea.fi/henkiloasiakkaat/saastot/sijoittaminen/capital-sopimus.html There we go, park your savings in those, avoid capital gains tax until you take out the money (or avoid it totally by moving to Sweden for 6 months to take it out) and do all your trading even more anonymously than a nominee registration would allow you. If you've actually got savings worth poo poo, you can even do this with higher customization and almost 0 fees. Jyppe posted:Let's consult dear leader. This is actually a good article, other than when the guy starts injecting his own opinions, especially about how we should be "a leader" by having our own system.
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Nov 30, 2015 00:09
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Geriatric Pirate posted:Also, why would anyone try to illegally avoid taxes or something using a hallintarekisteri when you can legally avoid taxes and registering your share ownership through financial products that are advertised on the main webpages of our biggest banks: Hmm, perhaps the best way to deter tax avoidance isn't to create new vehicles for it but rather outlaw existing ones? Just an idea.
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Nov 30, 2015 00:37
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