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Klades posted:The problem is, to actually have more options they need to come from things like good class design. On the other hand, "Here, everyone can staple their favorite ability to another job" just means everyone picks up Hallowed Ground or Scourge. I'd think fight or flight would be the preferred option, at least for non-casters.
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Nov 30, 2015 16:01
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kafziel posted:While I can certainly get where you all are coming from, I'm always baffled by how contradictory the community is on things. People are always complaining that they want more options, then whenever an idea is discussed that relates to granting more options, they start complaining that more options are pointless because of the BiS nature of the raiding community..... It's almost as if The Community isn't a single hivemind with the same opinion about everything...
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Nov 30, 2015 18:10
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Chyea posted:What they really should do is Legendary Traits quest chains - modifications to abilities every X number of patches so things get shaken up just a little. That's a really dumb idea. Save that poo poo for expansions.
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Nov 30, 2015 18:12
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New relic atma 3.0 will be random drops from Crystal Tower and Coil trash. Edit: Please look forward to it.
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Nov 30, 2015 18:17
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Boogalo posted:New relic atma 3.0 will be random drops from Crystal Tower and Coil trash. Somewhere in Japan an area designer put their heart and soul into a glorious descent through a space ship's primary engine shaft. Blood, sweat, and tears. Then they were subjected to two years of people complaining, ridiculing, and dismissing Turn 3 as a useless bit of filler content. He will have his revenge, in due time.
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Nov 30, 2015 18:24
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New relics are upgrade-able to 255 but only if you are able to find the hidden invisible chest at 3:27am in Coil 3 that has a 0.02% chance to spawn for 17 seconds.
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Nov 30, 2015 18:28
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Lant posted:New relics are upgrade-able to 255 but only if you are able to find the hidden invisible chest at 3:27am in Coil 3 that has a 0.02% chance to spawn for 17 seconds. You jest but this is basically how all chests worked in FFXII e: I think the Zodiac Spear chest in that game had something like a 10% chance of spawning, then a 10% chance of it containing an item and not 20 gil, then a 10% chance of it actually containing the spear. Something absurd like that e2: not to mention for that chest specifically there were 4 other chests throughout the game that you had to leave untouched, otherwise the Zodiac Spear chest wouldn't spawn at all. The game gives you absolutely zero indication of which those 4 chests are. All 4 appear in normal areas where you would automatically assume to open them. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 18:35
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Bring back XI-style coffers.
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Nov 30, 2015 18:36
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drunk asian neighbor posted:You jest but this is basically how all chests worked in FFXII I remember there was a theory that those 4 chests all appear in cutscenes, being the only thing that might possibly indicate they were in any way important. IIRC it fell apart since one of the chests wasn't really visible in the cutscene it was supposedly in (I think it may have been the Phon Coast one?).
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Nov 30, 2015 18:41
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drunk asian neighbor posted:You jest but this is basically how all chests worked in FFXII Nah, those are two different ways of getting the Spear: The 4 magic chests you don't open and then go to that Goblin dungeon and a chest with the 10%/10%/10% in the mines. Now let me tell you about the invisible chest that randomly spawns on one of the airships that has some super low chance of containing an invisible super bow in the IZJS version! 
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Nov 30, 2015 18:47
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Yeah we get it. 12 is a bad game.
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Nov 30, 2015 18:50
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Hey so I just came back to the game after playing poo poo tons of XI and a good bit of XIV in ARR (after playing the 1.0 beta and saying 'gently caress this') I'm just about to hit 40 on my WAR, considering if I should switch to DRK when I hit 50 or what. It seems like the class I always wanted to be playing. But DRK doesn't have AF armor or a relic weapon? That's pretty lame. I guess everybody is using end-game raiding weapons and armor now and relics mostly don't matter? I'd still like to have one for cosmetic reasons though.  Or are people still using relics, its just that they're so upgraded that new players shouldn't bother trying to catch up? I'm kinda confused on the state of end-game.I've got awhile before my WAR will be 60 or even longer if I switch to DRK, but I'm kinda curious like what the status of everything is. Are there new relic weapons coming soon? Looks like I was pruned from PBC for inactivity so I guess I'll re-apply, seems like where the cool kids are. Are tanks needed or should I consider switching to dps?
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Nov 30, 2015 18:50
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drunk asian neighbor posted:You jest but this is basically how all chests worked in FFXII In original ff12 it was a chest in the optional section of Henne Mines (which was also on the way to Zodiark) OR you could just not open the 4 chests. They changed it in international to be a reward from hunting rares. Although they did add Seitengrate which to get is exactly what I described. Belzac posted:Yeah we get it. 12 is a bad game. I will fistfight you to the death over this.
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Nov 30, 2015 18:51
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Belzac posted:Yeah we get it. 12 is a bad game. Sorry Belzac I'll get right back on talking about how bad and dumb Diadem is wouldn't want to bring up a topic that you can't spam your opinion on to death
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Nov 30, 2015 19:00
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Scrublord Prime posted:Nah, those are two different ways of getting the Spear: The 4 magic chests you don't open and then go to that Goblin dungeon and a chest with the 10%/10%/10% in the mines. That's right, it was 2 different ways, each equally asinine. I think you have to move 2 map screens away from the 10/10/10 chest each time to get it to respawn, too (which also respawns all the mobs in the area IIRC) Don't even get me started on the IZJS. Great concept, dismal execution, especially since you can very easily gently caress yourself out of even a half-decent party composition if you don't do your homework beforehand. e: FF12 is a good game with some bad mechanical decisions thrown in, see also every other FF game Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 19:02
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Zaphod42 posted:Hey so I just came back to the game after playing poo poo tons of XI and a good bit of XIV in ARR (after playing the 1.0 beta and saying 'gently caress this') There's a new set of artifact gear at 60, which you buy with Esoterics tomes, the new weekly-gated timestones earned from all the various L60 content. So DRK does have an artifact set, it's just not with the level 50 sets. Similarly they didn't bother with relic weapons for the three new jobs because they're adding in a new kind of relic weapon in like 2 weeks which will cover it. As for the tank jobs WAR is arguably King poo poo of Tank Mountain at the moment but they're more or less sharing the spotlight with DRK. This is because right now the ability to do DPS while also being a Tank is pretty important for a few pieces of content and pretty useful for all pieces of content and WAR's post-50 skills all revolve around boosting their DPS - a new stance, new tools for that stance, etc. Of the three tanks they do the most damage but are the least durable; PLD is the opposite (lower damage higher durability) and DRK is smack in the middle, more or less. Because you generally don't bring two of the same tank job if you can help it a lot of groups are defaulting to WAR and DRK because of this. PLDs are having less of a good time. If it matters to you DRK is also a more complex job to play due to how it uses it's MP bar to fuel basically everything important that it does, while WAR is pretty simple beyond "Do I have my stacks yet? I do? COOL  ", normal tank responsibilities of proper cooldown use and raid awareness notwithstanding.All of that aside Tanks are still needed by all, and loved by all, except Void Ark but gently caress Void Ark. You'll have fast queues no matter which one you pick.
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Nov 30, 2015 19:04
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Chyea posted:I'd grind so many loving atma to have a trait that lets me get 1 Chakra charge everytime GL3 is refreshed, Yes please. They can even take away one ilm punch, since it's worthless outside of PVP and lol PVP in FF14. e: Lant posted:New relics are upgrade-able to 255 but only if you are able to find the hidden invisible chest at 3:27am in Coil 3 that has a 0.02% chance to spawn for 17 seconds. This was literally a thing for the Miragent/Fenris PVE sets at 50 in Aion.
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Nov 30, 2015 19:05
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Meiteron posted:Somewhere in Japan an area designer put their heart and soul into a glorious descent through a space ship's primary engine shaft. Blood, sweat, and tears. Then they were subjected to two years of people complaining, ridiculing, and dismissing Turn 3 as a useless bit of filler content. Alex 2. It wasn't very impressive revenge, but it was revenge.  Also FF12 had the best Greg. The BEST Greg.
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Nov 30, 2015 19:05
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Thyrork posted:Also FF12 had the best Greg. The BEST Greg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XsQIHGSNhs
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Nov 30, 2015 19:09
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Meiteron posted:There's a new set of artifact gear at 60, which you buy with Esoterics tomes, the new weekly-gated timestones earned from all the various L60 content. So DRK does have an artifact set, it's just not with the level 50 sets. Similarly they didn't bother with relic weapons for the three new jobs because they're adding in a new kind of relic weapon in like 2 weeks which will cover it. Sweet, dunno why the wiki doesn't mention the 60 AF sets then. And new relic weapons coming soon sounds cool, they'll probably be out before I hit 60 on DRK. Yeah I saw the differences between the tanks and while I like the style of paladins I was attracted to WAR so I could facesmash poo poo but now DRK seems even more satisfying. WAR does seem to edge out a bit but I like the style of DRK more, I may end up playing either, hard to say. I'll get WAR to 50 at least to unlock Ishguard and then try out DRK at 30 and see if I like it better or not. I also kinda like the idea of being more balanced as a tank than pure DPS, although I prefer DPS-leaning to the super-tanky PLD.Funny enough I think PLD were top tank when I stopped playing because their pro-active cooldowns were stronger than WAR's reactive cooldowns? Not sure. I don't mind the class being complex, if anything I kinda want it to be complex. Who has the longer combos or the more branching combos between WAR and DRK, or is it about the same? And which classes have the longest combos in the game period? Monk? Ninja? Gun-gamesh.
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Nov 30, 2015 19:13
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drunk asian neighbor posted:Don't even get me started on the IZJS. Great concept, dismal execution, especially since you can very easily gently caress yourself out of even a half-decent party composition if you don't do your homework beforehand. You cant lose the IZJS story mode no matter what classes you pick, they made the game way easier. You have to try to fail pretty bad also since you get to take half the classes. Only 4 of them are kinda meh, the rest break the game. It also let status affects land on bosses, the breaker class can literally break the game by making the hardest hitting bosses hit for nothing. The shame about FF12 is Basch didnt test well so they made Vaan so he could be the teenager main character whose lines include "yay" and "ok guys". While Basch is only one talking about the retelling of star wars that FF12 is.
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Nov 30, 2015 19:20
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Oh my. 
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Nov 30, 2015 19:20
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The farther I take DRK the more slow and clunky PLD feels. gently caress, I completed Excalibur Zeta last weekend just to finish up since the process was nerfed so much but I just don't know how much I will continue to PLD once I get the last five levels of DRK. I have been hesitant to spend Esos on any tank upgrades at this point since I now feel like there is a potential wrong choice to be made. I dug the Paladin aesthetic and the flow of the combat skills fits me better than Warrior ever did but they just feel like a beta test for the release of DRK. DRK is a good class even if they lack the usual l45/50 quest drops and the like. They do have primal weapons and poetics gear though so they didn't completely get overlooked in pre-HW content though.
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Nov 30, 2015 19:42
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Tenzarin posted:You cant lose the IZJS story mode no matter what classes you pick, they made the game way easier. I didn't realize any of that. Makes sense that they make the game a little easier when you can only designate 1 person each to cast the stronger magicks in the game. The original version of Yiazmat was like a 3-4 hour fight with all your characters' License Boards unlocked fully, and thinking about trying that fight with only 1 person each who can cast Full-Raise/Full-Cure and Flare/Scathe/whatever BLM spells gave me a mild stomachache. Also you forgot that as bad and one-dimensional of a character Vaan was, they pushed so hard for him to be the protagonist that they gave him an even more one-dimensional support piece in Penelo. What a pair of worthless characters. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 20:20
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Should I be opening with Plunge or Unleash on DRK? Assuming Plunge so I can get my AoEs going before the BLM gets smashed e: Wasn't Vaan something they added late in to the development? A lot of cutscenes feel like Basch/Balthier are supposed to be carrying the story because characters react more to them than Vaan. Plus there's a lot of scenes where it hard cuts to Vaan and he does the movie equivalent of going "I'm still here, guys!" Robo Reagan fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 20:27
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You should be opening with both.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:29
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Zaphod42 posted:Sweet, dunno why the wiki doesn't mention the 60 AF sets then. And new relic weapons coming soon sounds cool, they'll probably be out before I hit 60 on DRK. I've hit 60 on PLD and DRK, and am working on WAR right now (level 32, mainly to help my friend who's DPSing get through dungeons), and I can say that both DRK and WAR are infinitely more fun than PLD. DRK's managing of MP is pretty fun, and they hold aggro so well that you can play around with your DPS combos. PLDs essentially are predictable. A rage of halone combo, then a goring blade combo, and then a royal authority combo if you're holding aggro pretty well, then repeat, while throwing in the occasional oGCD of Spirit's Within and Circle of Scorn (oh I guess shield swipe is oGCD too). PLDs attract the worst kind of players, too - if you ever do an official forum safari and read the tank threads where people have legit gripes about PLD, the staunch defenders of PLD usually have the worst opinions of all.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:30
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I like all three and have the worst time trying to decide what I want to main. Though warrior is my least favorite.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:31
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Robo Reagan posted:Should I be opening with Plunge or Unleash on DRK? Assuming Plunge so I can get my AoEs going before the BLM gets smashed I generally start off with Unmend, plunge oGCD, then unleash. I've not had issues with grabbing AoE aggro on enemies unless a healer preemptively casted regen on me or something.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:34
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Err, whoops yeah meant to type Unmend/Plunge. I get Unmend and Unleash mixed up.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:36
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I had a mostly complete save of XIII-2 but never did the DLC. Now I'm going to dust it off when I get home.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:39
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Warrior is my favourite and my main..to the point that since I've really played nothing else and did so little on the other classes I have no idea how to play them and soon return to the comfort of the Warrior. I really want to level a DRK too though.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:42
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Zaphod42 posted:Sweet, dunno why the wiki doesn't mention the 60 AF sets then. And new relic weapons coming soon sounds cool, they'll probably be out before I hit 60 on DRK. Because wikis are community updated? Anyway, for job-specific designs, there's a level 50 design (in three versions: original, dyeable original, and recolored; recolored has higher ilvl/stats since it was from the very first round of weekly limited tomestone) for jobs that existed in 2.x (read: everything but DRK AST MCH), and a level 60 design for jobs that exist in 3.x (also from this expansion's very first round of weekly limited tomestone). While these are nice for looks purposes, they tend to be more of a pain for gearing - and glamour - purposes than shared sets (like the usual PLD WAR DRK all-tank sets). (parentheses)
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Nov 30, 2015 20:43
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drunk asian neighbor posted:I didn't realize any of that. Makes sense that they make the game a little easier when you can only designate 1 person each to cast the stronger magicks in the game. The original version of Yiazmat was like a 3-4 hour fight with all your characters' License Boards unlocked fully, and thinking about trying that fight with only 1 person each who can cast Full-Raise/Full-Cure and Flare/Scathe/whatever BLM spells gave me a mild stomachache. A single archer can solo Yiazmat in 2 mins in IZJS. BLM is actually a power house because the damage cap is removed also, but casting in general still has a cap because in FF12 only one spell can be casted at once by anyone on the screen.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:49
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Vil posted:Because wikis are community updated? Anyway, for job-specific designs, there's a level 50 design (in three versions: original, dyeable original, and recolored; recolored has higher ilvl/stats since it was from the very first round of weekly limited tomestone) for jobs that existed in 2.x (read: everything but DRK AST MCH), and a level 60 design for jobs that exist in 3.x (also from this expansion's very first round of weekly limited tomestone). Why are they more of a pain for glamour than shared sets? More expensive to do so or something?
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Nov 30, 2015 20:50
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What's the overall opinion on ASTs these days? I resubbed over the weekend, and have been exploring the content that's new to me. I read up on the class changes. AST has had a few nice tweaks, but I'm bouncing between WHM and AST and it still feels like WHM is playing easy-mode. And out of curiosity, how are SCHs? Mine's still 51 or something, and I never had a ton of experience with it at 50. I imagine the ideal healing duo is still WHM/SCH.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:52
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Zaphod42 posted:Why are they more of a pain for glamour than shared sets? More expensive to do so or something? edit: nevermind I misread the discussion, my response doesn't make sense.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:03
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Zaphod42 posted:Funny enough I think PLD were top tank when I stopped playing because their pro-active cooldowns were stronger than WAR's reactive cooldowns? Not sure. In order: Warrior has always required that the player be more mindful of when they need to pop mitigation anyways. IB only has a 6 second duration, and you have to make the decision whether you want to pop it now for the damage/healing/whatever, or hold it for the parry/cooldown. You get one bailout in the form of Infuriate, but even then Deliverance means you have to make a decision on whether or not you want to blow it for Triple Cleave. So yeah, your average player is lazy and doesn't want to think and gravitates towards PLD. I want to say that DRK is the more complex one, but that may be purely due to being less-familiar with it than WAR. I know WAR like the back of my hand, DRK are the crib notes I've scribbled on the palm. Technically MNK never ends a combo. It just chains into itself unto oblivion, going from stance to stance, faster and faster until the game jerks you around with an enforced movement period and GL drops. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 21:10
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:What's the overall opinion on ASTs these days? I resubbed over the weekend, and have been exploring the content that's new to me. I read up on the class changes. AST has had a few nice tweaks, but I'm bouncing between WHM and AST and it still feels like WHM is playing easy-mode. Don't really know about the overall opinion, but of the limited group of people clearing the hardest content in the game some of them are using ASTs to do it which is really the only metric that matters in the long run. I only really have experience doing the content with WHM/SCH, and my secondhand anecdotal reports from people trying to use AST is that it's more effort/more difficult to do the same overall job as a WHM, but it's certainly possible. I don't know of anyone who have seriously tried to use AST as a SCH replacement, so I can't comment on that, but my gut feeling is that it's doable but harder. AST has a couple of nice tricks and features you can do, but the class feels like you have to John Madden it up more to use it to its full potential. SCHs feel like they're super common; a fair chunk of people who were playing WHM seemed to have jumped ship long-term to AST and now SCH seems to be the most prevalent healer out there, which fits in with it being the easiest healer class in terms of half-assing it and still doing okay for passing dungeons. Selene at 51+ doesn't contribute nearly as much as Selene at 50, and SCH got some interesting toys mainly based around bringing their AOE healing a little closer to being up to par, which range from occasionally handy to nearly essential for your sanity depending on whether or not you're running double SCH for the content. Deployment Tactics is my favorite unnecessary overkill but it's fun, even if there's really no content where using it is particularly helpful outside of maybe saving some mana on AOE heals.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:46
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Robo Reagan posted:Should I be opening with Plunge or Unleash on DRK? Assuming Plunge so I can get my AoEs going before the BLM gets smashed The specifics behind a lot of the backroom issues of FF12's development are still kind of hush-hush. The general idea seems to be that Vaan was added fairly early into development, but the actual script for the main story wasn't terribly rewritten from Matsuno's original vision. The game starts off with Vaan wanting to be a sky pirate and then as soon as everyone leaves Rabanastre, it goes full into the Princess Ashe storyline, turning Vaan into a completely ancillary character. He quips up here and there like you said, but he never actually does anything to strengthen his own character development... and Penello just gets kidnapped, that's the extent of her character. Then, at some point Matsuno had a physical and mental breakdown, forcing him to leave the project. Hiroshi Minagawa and Hiroyuki Ito stepped in after that, but it's hard to say how much they changed of the game's actual story. They are both very competent people though: Minagawa, having worked on every other Ivalice title but Revenant Wings, and Ito being the creator of the ATB and one of the driving forces behind FFs VI and IX. At the end of the day though, I would really have liked to have seen what Matsuno's original plan for XII was before the draft was changed and he was forced from the project due to extreme pressure. For what it's worth, I really like Vaan. Not so much because of XII, but because of Final Fantasy Tactics A2, in which he actually has a plot presence and is represented to be pretty cool. They also give him a shirt, which makes him more bearable.
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