Bast Relief posted:That said, there is no excuse for the esoteric devination that is going on in that Pepsi document. I don't like the logo, but it works. Why didn't the designers just speak to that? Well, it goes back to people's gut reaction that simplicity is worth less than elaboration, and it's not like CEOs know any better. You ever have one of those math teachers who would mark your grades down if you didn't "show your work"? I did, even if all our grades were right if we didn't have step by step proof of how we did every equation we would get an F on our papers even for something as simple as 10x1. It's kind of like that, if someone is paying you a lot of money for a dumb logo they want to see why they should use it, the reasoning behind it and all the fancy buzzwords and art logic you can come up with for it even if you have to bullshit most of it just to say "This is the design I'm submitting, take it or leave it".
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Dec 2, 2015 04:22
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Humboldt Squid posted:Especially viral marketing people it's not viral marketing because I'm smart, and people who fall for viral marketing are dumb, ergo me posting a literal marketing document five years later has nothing to do with marketing because -farts-
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Dec 2, 2015 04:45
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Nuebot posted:You ever have one of those math teachers who would mark your grades down if you didn't "show your work"? I did, even if all our grades were right if we didn't have step by step proof of how we did every equation we would get an F on our papers even for something as simple as 10x1. It's kind of like that, if someone is paying you a lot of money for a dumb logo they want to see why they should use it, the reasoning behind it and all the fancy buzzwords and art logic you can come up with for it even if you have to bullshit most of it just to say "This is the design I'm submitting, take it or leave it". Exactly, and keeping with the metaphor, if you have a decent teacher they'll call you out on your bullshit explanation if that's what you put out. However, if the teacher hands off the grading to a TA who doesn't know what they're looking at, a bunch of esoteric nonsense will look good to them and so you'll get your points. What I'm saying is, though the logo is simple, there most certainly lies within legitimate design decisions and justifications for those decisions. That reasoning, written up, just isn't gong to wow a dumb CEO, hence the bizarre narrative.
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Dec 2, 2015 04:55
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That Pepsi .pdf is absolutely bananas. A couple of guys came up with that after blowing it off for nearly the entire length of the project and doing a bunch of drugs over about 4 or 5 days.
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Dec 2, 2015 05:44
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You can kinda see the point in the document where they go from "See this logo is good because it further streamlines the Pepsi design while keeping certain recognizable features" to "bullshit bullshit bullshit how many pages are we at? Seriously? Dammit just keep typing." Of course part of advertising is also convincing/reassuring the client so the more you throw bullshit at them the sooner you can go home.
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Dec 2, 2015 06:00
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I'd be more interested in seeing the reports that led them to do the rebranding in the first place. The logo itself cost them a million, but that's a pittance compared to the cost of their entire industrial arm adjusting to support the changes. Was it just based on panic at a sight decrease in the rate of acceleration of the rate of acceleration of the growth of income or did they actually have some kind of studies that said people disliked the old logo?
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Dec 2, 2015 06:24
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That kind of poo poo is really common in sports, too. The NHL spewed all this deep, flowery garbage about what it meant when their logo changed from code:code:
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Dec 2, 2015 06:55
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Sentient Data posted:I'd be more interested in seeing the reports that led them to do the rebranding in the first place. The logo itself cost them a million, but that's a pittance compared to the cost of their entire industrial arm adjusting to support the changes. Was it just based on panic at a sight decrease in the rate of acceleration of the rate of acceleration of the growth of income or did they actually have some kind of studies that said people disliked the old logo? You have to re-brand every so often, or people might buy slightly less pepsi. They're already addicted to the point where they swell up to 300+ lbs and guzzle it by the liter, pepsi is probably desperately looking for more market share that simply isn't there.
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Dec 2, 2015 07:24
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I can see why $1,000,000 can be spent doing through market research and testing to determine a new logo. However, $1,000,000 shouldn't get you that. Considering coke probably spent untold bajillions just getting rid of the shadows and faux-embossing and whatever off their logo, there's a reason I consider Pepsi my #2 choice.
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Dec 2, 2015 08:36
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I remember reading about Steve Jobs paying $100,000 for the Next logo design and thinking that was crazy. Graphic designers have a good racket. e: yeah I shouldn't have said all graphic designers. I mean the handful of guys that design logos for everyone. Mu Zeta has a new favorite as of 10:14 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 08:40
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Mu Zeta posted:I remember reading about Steve Jobs paying $100,000 for the Next logo design and thinking that was crazy. Graphic designers have a good racket. Yes and no. If you can actually get your name out there to the point where people are willing to pay for it, then gently caress yes it's great. Hell even now I basically get paid a hundred bucks for every hours worth of work I do in photoshop or illustrator. The hardest part is keeping up that flow of clients.
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Dec 2, 2015 09:52
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Just saw a piece about a Singapore clothing brand that on Black Friday put on their site a photo of a passed-out model and the click button to shop said "rape us now." Oh, and the model's make up was very reminiscent of the 70s "Baby Soft" ad. They rightfully got a ton of blowback on social media. The creative director's somewhat non-apology claims "I failed to review my graphic designer's work" but I don't buy it. Multiple people from marketing on up had to discuss this, plan the shoot, makeup, etc. My guess is either employees didn't care or stayed ashamed and silent because they were scared to lose face (and potentially a job). Before anyone handwaves this as an English translation issue I have a really tough time believing a company that advertises and sells in English would misunderstand the connotations of the word they chose.
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Dec 2, 2015 11:03
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ElwoodCuse posted:That kind of poo poo is really common in sports, too. The NHL spewed all this deep, flowery garbage about what it meant when their logo changed from Or last year, where the Cleveland Browns had a huge marketing campaign about how they were using a slightly lighter shade of orange on their uniforms this year.
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Dec 2, 2015 12:02
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I think the current pepsi logo looks good and the old one looks like poo poo.
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Dec 2, 2015 12:19
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:Before anyone handwaves this as an English translation issue I have a really tough time believing a company that advertises and sells in English would misunderstand the connotations of the word they chose. You know what the really dumb thing is? English is one of Singapore's national languages, and in my experience, those rebs speak better English than they do Chinese and Malay (their other official languages). They're also one of the most Westernized places in Southeast Asia, so there's really no excuse.
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Dec 2, 2015 13:30
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Logos are actually pretty complicated. You want it to be recognizable, evoke something (hopefully positive, like movement or happiness or something). Simple is good, but too simple ends up unrecognizable and generic. If you have text (like coca cola) and plan on selling in markets that have different languages, you need to consider how to handle it. And then there's things like color and design from a printing perspective. Presumably you are going to put your logo on things. If it has a billion colors, that makes it a billion times more annoying to label your cans or whatever. Company I worked at (made networking equipment) went through a major logo redesign a few years back. I liked how the old one looked, but it turns out it was a horrible nightmare to print, the colors it used couldn't match rgb to cymk, and customers associate networking equipment with blacks and blues, not the weird color the company had. It made the product stand out, but that happened to be in a bad way. And yes the new logo and branding stuff cost an absurd amount of money.
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Dec 2, 2015 13:35
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Yeah, Singapore was part of the UK for a long time, it even uses British common law, IIRC.
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Dec 2, 2015 13:36
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Y'all are neglecting the best Pepsi branding:
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Dec 2, 2015 14:17
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AlphaKretin posted:There are these ads on the radio here going about how "beautiful" it is that all your favourite beers are ~99% sugar free~ because it's used up in the manufacturing process. If their point is supposed to be "fermentation is a thing" then that applies to drat near any alcohol and tooting beer's horn is somewhat disingenuous, but more importantly I don't think sugar is the substance in beer that people are worried about having too much of. Uh, no, residual sugars are a thing, beer yeasts are going to die off at a relatively low alcohol concentration no matter how much sugar is in the starting product, they're incapable of eating it all. High-gravity beers have a lot of sugar in them. Obviously a lot of wines do as well, especially fortified ones to which grain alcohol is added to kill off the yeast while they're still capable of fermenting the sugars. There are also nonfermentable sugars that yeast can't eat, these are present in varying amounts depending on the mashing process, and are often added to beers to generate a particular flavor or feel.
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Dec 2, 2015 15:56
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You Are A Elf posted:Y'all are neglecting the best Pepsi branding: To me Coke is clearly winning the mindshare game because whenever I see a Coke in a tv show its like whatever, but anytime I see a Pepsi in a show or movie its like "welp that's clearly a paid ad". Not like the coke appearing wouldn't be paid-for either, but coke just feels more like something a writer would naturally use while nobody would say "pepsi" unless they had to. Not that I have anything against pepsi, and I don't even really like coke. Just feels that way. Like it'd be pretty natural to just say "get me a kleenex" or "get me some jello" but if you said "get me some X brand gelatin" I'd be like 'that's an ad'. I wonder if Coke would ever risk losing their brand name to being too generic. Lots of people do say "a coke" when they mean a soda. Course they've got lawyers for days to battle over keeping their brand.
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Dec 2, 2015 17:46
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I don't have anything to back it up, but I bet the biggest advantage is that the brand allows for a single syllable nickname (with a hard "k" sound no less), I'm sure if someone ordered a Coca-Cola in a show rather than a coke it would sound even more unnatural than Pepsi
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Dec 2, 2015 17:51
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Phanatic posted:Uh, no, residual sugars are a thing, beer yeasts are going to die off at a relatively low alcohol concentration no matter how much sugar is in the starting product, they're incapable of eating it all. High-gravity beers have a lot of sugar in them. Obviously a lot of wines do as well, especially fortified ones to which grain alcohol is added to kill off the yeast while they're still capable of fermenting the sugars. There are also nonfermentable sugars that yeast can't eat, these are present in varying amounts depending on the mashing process, and are often added to beers to generate a particular flavor or feel. There are some older and newer beers on the market that have killed of residual sugers down to a level where it's safe for diabetics. But they're usually either marketed as such, or they're a gueuze.
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Dec 2, 2015 17:54
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Coke has always operated more conservatively so their logos are mostly unchanged and all their bottles share a similar design language. They also made a huge push in chain restaurant fountain sales, so you see Coke being drunk in every part of the country whereas most sodas are regional in popularity. Pepsi might get the last laugh since soda sales have been declining over the last decade. PepsiCo can still sell you a taco or some fried chicken. All Coke has is sugar water.
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Dec 2, 2015 17:55
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Zaphod42 posted:To me Coke is clearly winning the mindshare game because whenever I see a Coke in a tv show its like whatever, but anytime I see a Pepsi in a show or movie its like "welp that's clearly a paid ad". Not like the coke appearing wouldn't be paid-for either, but coke just feels more like something a writer would naturally use while nobody would say "pepsi" unless they had to. anecdotally, i started playing Parasite Eve 2 recently and the first time i saw a Coke vending machine I laughed and was immediately reminded of Terminator 2 with all of the conspicuous Pepsi vending machines
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Dec 2, 2015 17:58
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Krispy Kareem posted:Coke has always operated more conservatively so their logos are mostly unchanged and all their bottles share a similar design language. They also made a huge push in chain restaurant fountain sales, so you see Coke being drunk in every part of the country whereas most sodas are regional in popularity. People buy a whole drat lot of that sugar water though. Its a pretty good racket. But yeah health issues are getting people to slow down a bit. Alaois posted:anecdotally, i started playing Parasite Eve 2 recently and the first time i saw a Coke vending machine I laughed and was immediately reminded of Terminator 2 with all of the conspicuous Pepsi vending machines Ads in videogames are a weird bunch. Most of the time its blatant and awful, but a few times it seems to make sense and even enhances the game. Jet Moto had Mountain Dew which was kinda cool and whatever, made enough sense. The best was Crazy Taxi actually having like KFC restaurants and poo poo in the neighborhoods you drive around and drop people off at. Its like the perfect in-game ad, because it makes the game more realistic while also being an ad. Didn't feel intrusive at all.
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Dec 2, 2015 18:00
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I have the Android version of CT, and I think they removed all the brand places like Pizza Hut, KFC, Levi's, and Tower Records, which sucks. What I am curious about is whether or not a place called "Popcorn Mania" ever existed.
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Dec 2, 2015 18:12
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Takoluka posted:I have the Android version of CT, and I think they removed all the brand places like Pizza Hut, KFC, Levi's, and Tower Records, which sucks. What I am curious about is whether or not a place called "Popcorn Mania" ever existed. Yeah I have a later re-release of it and they definitely removed all the brands, which is lame but makes sense.
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Dec 2, 2015 18:15
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Takoluka posted:I have the Android version of CT, and I think they removed all the brand places like Pizza Hut, KFC, Levi's, and Tower Records, which sucks. What I am curious about is whether or not a place called "Popcorn Mania" ever existed. Popcorn Mania
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Dec 2, 2015 18:24
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Alaois posted:anecdotally, i started playing Parasite Eve 2 recently and the first time i saw a Coke vending machine I laughed and was immediately reminded of Terminator 2 with all of the conspicuous Pepsi vending machines Cokes are one of the better healing items in that game. Peace Walker also had a bunch of commercial products as healing items in the Japanese version. In the US version, the mercenaries make their own MSF brand of instant curry, tortilla chips, soda, and body spray.
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Dec 2, 2015 18:30
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Non intrusive product placement in games is cool, but keeping with the theme of the thread...who the hell greenlit the marketing abomination that threw Stride Gum all over everything in Shaun White Skateboarding?
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Dec 2, 2015 18:50
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Ryoshi posted:Non intrusive product placement in games is cool, but keeping with the theme of the thread...who the hell greenlit the marketing abomination that threw Stride Gum all over everything in Shaun White Skateboarding? STRIDE GUM HATES THE MAN TOO!
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Dec 2, 2015 18:50
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I remember renting and playing Enter the Matrix and it was weird seeing Intel, Nvidia and Creative EAX ads plastered all over the place. EDIT: Also, as far as Coke vs Pepsi marketing goes. Coke absolutely DOMINATES the third world. About a decade ago I did a road trip across South Africa, and every few miles was the same Coca-Cola designed billboard for "so and so's general store and fresh biltong." Coke in the third world will happily market "so and so's corner shop" as long as they only sell Coca-Cola products. Instant Sunrise has a new favorite as of 18:57 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 18:54
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Instant Sunrise posted:I remember renting and playing Enter the Matrix and it was weird seeing Intel, Nvidia and Creative EAX ads plastered all over the place. Hah yeah. And its kinda funny because you hack the poo poo out of the computers in Enter the Matrix too, so its like Intel isn't secure  I saw a lot of Coke and Monster in Japan, but I don't recall ever seeing any Pepsi, yeah. And that's not even 3rd world. Or like The Avengers all running on Oracle servers. Its easy to miss but if you look for it, there's advertisements for everything Oracle does all over The Avengers. I think I read the CEO is a fun and dumped a ton of money on it? And I just came across this bullshit: http://www.oracle.com/us/theavengers/index.html quote:IT Super Hero: Agent John Smith This is a real official Oracle website advertising Oracle services using a top secret superhero agent named John Smith. And holy poo poo look at the picture they used for "John Smith"'s ID badge. I mean, I guess Oracle knows their customers 
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Dec 2, 2015 19:00
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There's actually a LOT of product placement in movies. People just only notice the more blatant examples where a company pays a shitload of money to have it feature prominently (cue that scene from wayne's world)
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Dec 2, 2015 19:09
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I'm sick of Big Shawerma trying to force itself into every aspect of my life
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Dec 2, 2015 19:17
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Instant Sunrise posted:that pdf is definitely worth $1,000,000 I love that PDF, it is terrible. But I mean $1 million for the logo that will be used globally for Pepsi doesn't seem that ridiculous. Every other aspect is ridiculous, of course...
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Dec 2, 2015 20:05
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lol $1 million, that's dumb I can get a six-pack of 12oz cans of Pepsi for $4.87 and three six-packs of Pepsi for just $12!
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Dec 2, 2015 20:19
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Intrusive but still pointless ads in games, you say? Seriously, what kid has influence over which brand of banana is purchased?
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Dec 2, 2015 20:29
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Sentient Data posted:Intrusive but still pointless ads in games, you say? it's called brand recognition . Gotta plant the seeds early
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Dec 2, 2015 20:45
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Sentient Data posted:Seriously, what kid has influence over which brand of banana is purchased? The same kid who has influence over what game system and games get purchased. You might as well say cereal ads during Saturday morning cartoons were dumb marketing.
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Dec 2, 2015 20:50
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