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Subjunctive posted:It looks like someone tipped it forward before it had set, and everything shifted. MrOnBicycle posted:I really want a good looking electric sedan. I absolutely hate all cars that have that raised back look that seems to come from the crossover / SUV cars. Actually the weird fish-shaped van thing form factor is common in electric vehicles because it's aerodynamically the best way to shape a box full of stuff (especially if you don't really care about downforce). For instance, see the Mercedes fish van:  Tesla doesn't have this shape because it's a pretty impractical car. It has four doors but the rear seats are tiny and have a low roof so it's pretty much a 2+2 coupe. I can't even sit in the back without my head touching the roof. Also, the Tesla approach of brute-forcing range makes it less sensitive to packaging and aero concerns. The Bolt's design brief is very different - deliver an electric car for "normal" people. So it has to have a range of 200 miles, cost $30-40k, and fit 4 adults. That means very aggressive engineering to keep costs down while maximizing range and usable space. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 15:20
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Mange Mite posted:Actually the weird fish-shaped van thing form factor is common in electric vehicles because it's aerodynamically the best way to shape a box full of stuff (especially if you don't really care about downforce). The most impressive thing about the design of the Model S is that it has the lowest drag coefficient of any production car and still looks attractive. I'm also pretty sure it has the most cargo space of any electric sedan. It is also seats those under 6 feet comfortably in the back row. Pretty sure if you're over 6 feet you're going to feel cramped in a lot of back rows. Edit: I've only owned Model S's with the panoramic roof which supposedly adds an inch or two of clearance in the back. Were you sitting in the back of once with a solid (non-glass) roof? eeenmachine fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 15:40
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eeenmachine posted:The most impressive thing about the design of the Model S is that it has the lowest drag coefficient of any production car and still looks attractive. I'm also pretty sure it has the most cargo space of any electric sedan. It's not the lowest for a production car, and is pretty much the same as a Prius. Which is to say that it's good, but far from unique code:OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 15:42
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Mange Mite posted:It's pretty much the same as a Prius. Slipperier or the same? I was going off this wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S
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Dec 2, 2015 15:44
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Mange Mite posted:It's pretty much the same as a Prius.
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Dec 2, 2015 15:47
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eeenmachine posted:Slipperier or the same? I was going off this wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S The new Prius is supposed to be the same, as is the S-class, etc. The reason you see so many luxury sedans on that list is probably because they're riding on airbags and can lower the car on the highway. In that way, the Prius is probably superior because it achieves similar c/d without air suspension.
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Dec 2, 2015 15:50
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ExecuDork posted:What is it about a drag co-efficient of 0.24 that's so hard to get past? The only cars noticeably better are essentially prototypes. Are the engineers running into fundamental limits of painted-metal-in-air? I bet it's more of a high-speed handling issue. Most cars due to their shape just inherently generate lift, so you need to generate enough downforce to keep the car planted at whatever your projected top speed is, and downforce creates drag. Edit: other possibilities off the top of my head are ride height and the fact that people hate wheel well covers OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 15:53
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drag coefficient only matters so much since actual drag is a function of frontal surface area as well
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Dec 2, 2015 18:59
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Boten Anna posted:Bolt looks like a pretty generic vehicle to me idk. I am a huge fan of the Volt even though I would never buy one because they purposefully designed it to be a rather masculine look that is good enough to prevent the hordes of car people with fragile male egos from making GBS threads on it for being too cute/foreign/nontraditional yet it's still pretty distinctive. Automakers also know EVs are still niche vehicles, and while you want to appeal to as broad an audience as possible, they need to still appeal to those in the market for EVs. They also know that EV shoppers want to flaunt their purchase and stand out in the parking lot. Hence, mass-market EVs tend to look more unique than their gasoline powered equivalents. Does the Bolt look good? I like hatchbacks and the shape of the i3 (but I loathe the tricolor scheme) so it appeals to me. It looks different enough to say "I'm not your usual car" but also not too far into i-Miev territory.
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Dec 2, 2015 19:03
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ExecuDork posted:What is it about a drag co-efficient of 0.24 that's so hard to get past? The only cars noticeably better are essentially prototypes. Are the engineers running into fundamental limits of painted-metal-in-air? It's an annoying function of needing to fit humans inside comfortably.
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Dec 2, 2015 22:31
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Thwomp posted:They also know that EV shoppers want to flaunt their purchase and stand out in the parking lot. Yeah. The Prius is a well-made car, but a lot of the reason it so massively outsold the other hybrids on the market is because it was the first one to look like a weird little space pod so you could show off your eco-consciousness to your neighbors. Honda has had a hybrid Civic on sale for the last 15 years, but you'd never know it because it looks just like a regular Civic, and that's the last thing somebody wants when they've spent a premium to get a hybrid.
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Dec 2, 2015 22:38
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Sagebrush posted:Yeah. The Prius is a well-made car, but a lot of the reason it so massively outsold the other hybrids on the market is because it was the first one to look like a weird little space pod so you could show off your eco-consciousness to your neighbors. I'm not disagreeing that that is a big factor, but what it doesn't take into account is the practicality of both cars. The civic is extremely hampered by the compromised trunk space and lack of split fold seating. It simply would not work as a family car, whereas that is precisely what the Prius is designed for. So looks aside, you get better fuel economy and more useful space for about the same money with a Prius.
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Dec 2, 2015 22:51
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People put solar panels on the wrong side of their house so people can see it. People are dumb.
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Dec 3, 2015 05:04
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Yep, there's a part of the market to whom the fact that a vehicle's design screams "I'm electric!" is a positive. They want people to know its something different. There's another part that really doesn't like that Prius/Leaf/Insight style and just wants electric cars to look like normal cars (myself included). Then there are some in the middle who really couldn't care less.
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Dec 3, 2015 05:27
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:drag coefficient only matters so much since actual drag is a function of frontal surface area as well Yeah and nowadays as even small cars get wider and wider frontal area is becoming mostly a function of how tall the roof is. Having a hatchback also helps in terms of places to hide batteries without making the trunk too small, particularly with hybrids
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Dec 3, 2015 06:11
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:drag coefficient only matters so much since actual drag is a function of frontal surface area as well This is part of the reason the Prius’s cd is so good: it’s relatively tall, so it needs a low coefficient to counter its high frontal area.
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Dec 3, 2015 06:18
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wolrah posted:Yep, there's a part of the market to whom the fact that a vehicle's design screams "I'm electric!" is a positive. They want people to know its something different. There's another part that really doesn't like that Prius/Leaf/Insight style and just wants electric cars to look like normal cars (myself included). Then there are some in the middle who really couldn't care less. I actually found that the Leaf isn't that bad in terms of looking different from a normal car. Short of a Tesla, which is just way out of my price range, the only car that I found which looked normal enough to consider driving. I've had her for the last few months (2012 model) and I've been happy with it so far.
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Dec 3, 2015 06:36
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Mange Mite posted:Yeah and nowadays as even small cars get wider and wider frontal area is becoming mostly a function of how tall the roof is. Mange Mite, I always thought you hated Tesla and the Model S as your posts read very negative on electric cars and Tesla in particular, but it seems you own one. Do you like your car? Am I right that you are down on the electric car thing? Presumably, if so, that happened after you bought one. What changed your mind? Apologies if this comes off as stalking, I'm just generally interested in your opinion as an owner who seems at least sceptical if not downright negative about the whole thing.
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Dec 3, 2015 06:53
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:drag coefficient only matters so much since actual drag is a function of frontal surface area as well Exactly. CdA is more important than Cd, and the Model S has a pretty large CdA.
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Dec 3, 2015 23:39
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borkencode posted:The Chevy Bolt has been spotted http://www.autoblog.com/2015/12/01/2017-chevy-bolt-spy-shots I like this. It's pretty much what I
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Dec 4, 2015 10:45
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Beffer posted:Mange Mite, I always thought you hated Tesla and the Model S as your posts read very negative on electric cars and Tesla in particular, but it seems you own one. I don't really own the Tesla anymore but basically I'm not actually skeptical of electric cars so much as marketing hype and also Tesla's business practices in particular. They do some pretty shady stuff financially (no worse than many other overblown tech startups of course) and I'm not a fan of the cult of personality Elon Musk inspires. From a technical standpoint, too, people seem to buy into the marketing without looking at the concrete stuff versus all the future possibility fantasies they spin. That factory, for example, they were throwing out overtly optimistic projected dollar numbers, and touting investments from potential partners even when said partners hadn't even committed anything yet. And in general, be suspicious of any company that refuses to follow GAAP. It's not a bad car (except for that godawful touch screen) and, although you'll never actually save money, if you want one it's actually being subsidized by the tech bubble so go ahead and get one if you want it. I wasn't really blown away but then again maybe it's because I'm comparing it to similarly priced conventional cars. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Dec 4, 2015 |
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Dec 4, 2015 15:27
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MrOnBicycle posted:I absolutely hate all cars that have that raised back look that seems to come from the crossover Sucks to be you because crossover designs have been wildly successful in America.
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Dec 4, 2015 16:58
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Michael Scott posted:Sucks to be you because crossover designs have been wildly successful in America.
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Dec 4, 2015 17:24
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Linedance posted:I'm not disagreeing that that is a big factor, but what it doesn't take into account is the practicality of both cars. The civic is extremely hampered by the compromised trunk space and lack of split fold seating.
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Dec 5, 2015 01:37
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MrOnBicycle posted:I really want a good looking electric sedan. I absolutely hate all cars that have that raised back look that seems to come from the crossover / SUV cars.  
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Dec 5, 2015 06:25
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Michael Scott posted:Sucks to be you because crossover designs have been wildly successful in America. So were minivans. The average American is loving stupid.
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Dec 5, 2015 06:27
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Godholio posted:So were minivans. The average American is loving stupid. Minivans are less dumb than SUVs, though, crossover or otherwise.
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Dec 5, 2015 06:35
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Porsche has announced the Mission E, an electric car which will do 0-62 in 3.5 seconds. http://qz.com/566584/porsche-is-going-after-tesla-with-an-electric-sports-car-that-will-get-to-100-kmh-in-3-5-seconds/ Not as fast as the P85D in ludicrous mode, then. The article also opines on VWs electric future, which I find more interesting. I too think VWs only way out of their cheating mess is to take the lead on EVs. Electric SUV, Transporter and LT perhaps? A van for the professional market seems perfect for EV, a flat slab of a battery with a cargo box on top.
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Dec 5, 2015 15:09
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I wonder if it'll pass emissions.
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Dec 5, 2015 20:19
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Godholio posted:I wonder if it'll pass emissions. Four electric traction motors, an 80kwh li-ion battery pack, and seven hundred liters of pressurized carbon monoxide and NOx, just because.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:21
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Godholio posted:I wonder if it'll pass emissions. It passed it by a letter already
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Dec 5, 2015 22:30
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Jealous Cow posted:People put solar panels on the wrong side of their house so people can see it. People are dumb. I should put fake solar panels on my south roof because I'm at the end of a N-S cul-de-sac and I keep getting PV salesmen cold call doorknockers.
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Dec 7, 2015 04:36
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Make them really, really obviously fake and see how many fewer doorknockers you get.
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Dec 7, 2015 04:53
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Ola posted:I too think VWs only way out of their cheating mess is to take the lead on EVs. Electric SUV, Transporter and LT perhaps? A van for the professional market seems perfect for EV, a flat slab of a battery with a cargo box on top. They're already selling an electric Golf in select markets. I wonder if they'll start by expanding that.
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Dec 7, 2015 05:27
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And an electric up. The E-up. Literally a Yorkshire greeting
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Dec 7, 2015 08:26
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Cockmaster posted:They're already selling an electric Golf in select markets. I wonder if they'll start by expanding that. Yeah, the e-Golf and e-Up are selling like hotcakes in Norway. But it's a converted ICE car, basically, and not an original platform. VW is apparently designing a new platform for EVs, which should be better laid out. http://evobsession.com/new-volkswagen-ceo-new-platform-specifically-electric-vehicles/
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Dec 7, 2015 10:57
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On the launch of the new S90, the Volvo CEO teases a battery EV in the near future. Link in Norwegian but the important stuff is that it probably won't be an electrified S90 and the target range is 500 km. http://www.dn.no/privat/dnBil/2015/12/07/1432/Elbil/-vi-trenger-en-helelektrisk-bil
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Dec 8, 2015 13:58
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Ola posted:Yeah, the e-Golf and e-Up are selling like hotcakes in Norway. But it's a converted ICE car, basically, and not an original platform. VW is apparently designing a new platform for EVs, which should be better laid out. http://evobsession.com/new-volkswagen-ceo-new-platform-specifically-electric-vehicles/ I was under the impression that the MQB platform was somewhat made for fully electric cars also? I have a 2016 e-golf myself and it's really no different from the regular golf except there's a lot of unused space under the hood. The floor and trunk looks identical, so I guess the batteries are just crammed in wherever the exhaust, gas tank and other normal car stuff would be...
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Dec 9, 2015 12:59
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VonWigg posted:I was under the impression that the MQB platform was somewhat made for fully electric cars also? I'm sure they had electrics at the front of their minds when designing it, but part of the compromise was making most of the parts fit both types of car so they didn't need two different production lines - or at least, as little difference in production as possible. As you say, they appear quite similar inside. The nature of the electrics give them much more freedom of form, so you'd want to avoid the compromises of an ICE drivetrain. The e-Golf has the gearbox tunnel for instance, while the Tesla has an almost flat floor. People are actually adding a center module to gain more storage. Compare insides:     A flat slab with a wheel in each corner could basically be a Phaeton, a Transporter, a Lamborghini, an A7, a Golf...just depends on the size of the main bit and the attributes of the added bits. The e-tron Audi Quattro concept looks like this. If you consider talks about a Combo charging system capable of 150 kW (faster than Teslas Superchargers) as well, pretty amazing things might come out of the VAG. *ahem*  http://longtailpipe.com/2015/11/16/german-automakers-pushing-combocharging-system-to-150-kilowatts-for-future-proof-dc-fast-charging/
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Dec 9, 2015 13:37
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Sounds like they need to throw a bench seat in there 
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