Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
rkajdi
Sep 11, 2001

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

zoux posted:

That and stuff for after It Finally Happens. Decades worth of emergency canned food, water and air filtration systems, gold, etc.

That latter stuff I expected. The cock pills even make sense since the demo for infowars is pasty white losers, who undoubtedly are worried about being too small or a one pump chump with whatever idiot make the poor decision to sleep with them. But the seeds thing is just the dumbest thing ever. Considering most of these losers are sitting on a year's salary in metal cock replacements, couldn't they just go all warlord on people and steal the food someone else grows? They're planning for the U.S. to turn into Somalia but haven't even spent a second thinking about what that would entail.

The more I see it, the more it obvious to me that prepper culture is one of these fake consumerist cultures built around what you buy. Like gamers, or what hipsters and hippies ended up turning into.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

JT Jag
Aug 30, 2009

#1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

zoux posted:

Reminder that the Oprah military industrial complex sells just as bad and way more stuff to gullible white women.
And HuffPo is a notorious peddler of quack science and anti-Vax editorials.

Rhesus Pieces
Jun 27, 2005

zoux posted:

Reminder that the Oprah military industrial complex sells just as bad and way more stuff to gullible white women.

Patent medicine never actually went away, it just got way more careful with its language.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

rkajdi posted:

That latter stuff I expected. The cock pills even make sense since the demo for infowars is pasty white losers, who undoubtedly are worried about being too small or a one pump chump with whatever idiot make the poor decision to sleep with them. But the seeds thing is just the dumbest thing ever. Considering most of these losers are sitting on a year's salary in metal cock replacements, couldn't they just go all warlord on people and steal the food someone else grows? They're planning for the U.S. to turn into Somalia but haven't even spent a second thinking about what that would entail.

The more I see it, the more it obvious to me that prepper culture is one of these fake consumerist cultures built around what you buy. Like gamers, or what hipsters and hippies ended up turning into.

I imagine gullible conspiracy minded morons make for a pretty good customer base.

If you believe in chemtrails, how much of a leap are miracle pills.

Fix
Jul 26, 2005

NEWT THE MOON

Rhesus Pieces posted:

Vegetarian capsules! 100% vegan!

For all we know they're capsules filled with lawn clippings going for almost ninety dollars a bottle.

I know, a fool and his money, etc. but someone should really go to jail for this poo poo.

Nah, you're thinking of the ones sold at GNC

quote:

At GNC, for example, the agency found that five out of six samples from the company’s signature “Herbal Plus” brand of supplements “were either unrecognizable or a substance other than what they claimed to be.” In pills labeled ginkgo biloba, the agency found only rice, asparagus and spruce, an ornamental plant commonly used for Christmas decorations.

Fried Chicken
Jan 9, 2011

Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

gradenko_2000 posted:

The idea behind this is based on historical hindsight: the industrial revolution would have changed up economics and manufacturing so much that slavery would no longer have been a feasible backbone for the Southern economy and they would have had to either adapt or collapse.

It's also largely BS, as the Southeners only ever had plans to expand slavery at the time.

Also because productivity from the slaves was being increased throughout and was at its peak when the system was destroyed.

The Half Has Never Been Told goes into a lot of detail about this and about how the North's economy and our Western expansion were tightly tied to the slave trade. Basically slave backed debts served the same role as mortgages do today as the underpinnings of financial instruments

Fried Chicken
Jan 9, 2011

Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

McDowell posted:

Didn't the CSA have aspirations of conquering Mexico/South America and establishing a White Supremacist Empire?

Yes. They were quite explicit about this

sit on my Facebook
Jun 20, 2007

ASS GAS OR GRASS
No One Rides for FREE
In the Trumplord Holy Land
"Wake Up, America!"-brand coffee is legitimately awesome though

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

zoux posted:

Is there any truth to the Lost Causer/States' Rights claims that the South was on the verge of abolishing slavery themselves? Seems to me like you wouldn't go to war over a thing you're about to get rid of anyway.

Ahahahaha, no. Southerners were never going to abolish slavery ever.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

McDowell posted:

Didn't the CSA have aspirations of conquering Mexico/South America and establishing a White Supremacist Empire?

Not even the CSA, some southern democrats issued the Ostend manifesto in the early 50s saying Cuba should be annexed ASAP to expand slavery to it.

Bryter
Nov 6, 2011

but since we are small we may-
uh, we may be the losers

Unzip and Attack posted:

4.7 stars out of 5, with 179 reviews. loving unreal man.

I know, right, can't believe I've never seen this stuff before! I'm buying as much as I can, it can't possibly stay at that price.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Popular Thug Drink posted:

another problem with the continued existence of the CSA is that it was unpopular, like all of the slaves would have found very good reason to escape to the north asap but many white southerners rejected secession as well and the 1864 southern landscape was rotten with deserters, bandits, and military police militias all sniping at each other, so there would almost certainly be a large exodus of southern whites from the border states to the north if not the unsecession of chunks of states like tennessee triggering civil war 2

Georgia's governor threatened to secede from the Confederacy several times during the war. Most hilarious were the ones from during Sherman's Georgia campaign.

"Please save us from this red haired Ohioan, oh and also we're gonna take our ball and go home"

Fried Chicken
Jan 9, 2011

Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!
Speaking of the Confederacy, let's talk Lincoln

How Lincoln Played the Press (a review of Lincoln and the Power of the Press: The War for Public Opinion by Harold Holzer)

quote:

On one occasion, in 1841, that happened—and it involved not only Lincoln but his fiancée Mary Todd. The two had collaborated on a series of scurrilous letters from a fictitious “Rebecca” that vilified James Shields, a rising candidate in the Democratic Party (he would later be elected a senator three times from three different states). The fake Rebecca, who claimed Shields was a former beau, mocked his Irish origin and declared him “a fool as well as a liar…. With him truth is out of the question, and as for getting a good bright passable lie out of him, you might as well try to strike fire from a cake of tallow.”

Shields stormed into the office of the Sangamo Journal, demanding that the editor, Simeon Francis, tell him who was behind the Rebecca letters. When Francis asked Lincoln what he should do, Lincoln, in order to shield his Mary, took sole responsibility (without admitting he wrote anything). Shields challenged him to a duel, and they actually met on the dueling ground—but Lincoln, as the one receiving the challenge, had the right to choice of weapons. When he called for broadswords, this gave him, with his long and strong right arm, a ludicrous advantage, and the fight was called off. Though Mary liked to recollect how her own beau had stood up for her, Lincoln cut off any later attempts to remember this episode—perhaps (though Holzer does not mention this) because Shields, vilified by “Rebecca,” became a Union officer when Lincoln was president, and was wounded at the Battle of Kernstown. There was a real duel after all.

This guy really was our best President

Unzip and Attack
Mar 3, 2008

USPOL May
Had a lecturer (Eric Foner)at my University a couple years back tell that same story about Lincoln and the duel, except that he said he chose wood axes. Either way it's still next level poo poo.

Fried Chicken
Jan 9, 2011

Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Unzip and Attack posted:

Had a lecturer (Eric Foner)at my University a couple years back tell that same story about Lincoln and the duel, except that he said he chose wood axes. Either way it's still next level poo poo.

I originally heard it as Mary Todd wrote the letters herself, Lincoln took the heat because women weren't supposed to work at the time (Abe gave no fucks) and he picked Scottish claymores.

But yeah, next level poo poo

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

So they just had swords sitting around in mid 19th century America?

Rhesus Pieces
Jun 27, 2005

I always thought he requested a duel with sledgehammers in six feet of water, but apparently that was a different tale with completely different people.

JT Jag
Aug 30, 2009

#1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

zoux posted:

So they just had swords sitting around in mid 19th century America?
It was only by the Civil War that rifling was popularized and guns became reliable arms for both short and long range. Swords were still seen as a legitimate sidearm.

Gin and Juche
Apr 3, 2008

The Highest Judge of Paradise
Shiki Eiki
YAMAXANADU

zoux posted:

So they just had swords sitting around in mid 19th century America?

Of course they did.

Now authentic Japanese steel on the other hand...

Islam is the Lite Rock FM
Jul 27, 2007

by exmarx
I spent far too long today explaining that agave nectar is basically HFCS sold at like 10-20x the price.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005



That's no way to talk about maybe Bill Hicks

MariusLecter
Sep 5, 2009

NI MUERTE NI MIEDO

Now I want a glass with a BioHazard symbol on it.

Morrow
Oct 31, 2010
quote is not edit

Morrow
Oct 31, 2010

zoux posted:

So they just had swords sitting around in mid 19th century America?

Right to bear arms.

The story I heard told was that he had a pit dug, where the fight was supposed to take place. Then, right before it started, he took the broadsword and (while standing in the pit) cut a branch off a nearby tree. And then the duel was called off.

Ashcans
Jan 2, 2006

Let's do the space-time warp again!

zoux posted:

So they just had swords sitting around in mid 19th century America?

Cavalry regiments were issued with sabers all through the civil war and I think through to the end of the century, so yes.

Fried Chicken
Jan 9, 2011

Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

zoux posted:

So they just had swords sitting around in mid 19th century America?

Do you not?


anyways, after that anecdote about Lincoln, here's one about Christie

quote:

But fueled by voter fears about ISIS after the attacks in Paris — and a subsequent boost from the largest paper in one of the key early primary states — New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie is focusing on terrorism.

At a standing-room only town hall inside the firehouse in tiny Loudon, N.H., the crowd took the Pledge of Allegiance facing a poster of firefighters raising the American flag at the World Trade Center site on Sept. 11, 2001. And it was fear of another such attack that hung heavy over Christie's 36th town hall meeting here.

"Our world war is happening right now, has been happening," said Christie as he opened the town hall. "You and I all in this room all know, all understand, that a couple of weeks ago this campaign changed dramatically."

Jesus, what has the GOP come to? You know, I don't like them, but I still want to see the party recover if for no other reason than eventually they will win again and I'd rather the country not burn to ashes as a result. Eisenhower wasn't that long ago guys.


Here, have a really good article about struggling southerners trying to organize a Chinese factory in Alabama

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES

Unzip and Attack posted:

Had a lecturer (Eric Foner)at my University a couple years back tell that same story about Lincoln and the duel, except that he said he chose wood axes. Either way it's still next level poo poo.

Jacobin has a lovely rep on these forums but they published a fantastic interview with Foner in their Civil War + Reconstruction issue.

Bryter
Nov 6, 2011

but since we are small we may-
uh, we may be the losers

zoux posted:

So they just had swords sitting around in mid 19th century America?

Decades after that, even.

greatn
Nov 15, 2006

by Lowtax

Wasn't this the plot of The Campaign?

Wraith of J.O.I.
Jan 25, 2012


Fried Chicken posted:

Do you not?


anyways, after that anecdote about Lincoln, here's one about Christie


Jesus, what has the GOP come to? You know, I don't like them, but I still want to see the party recover if for no other reason than eventually they will win again and I'd rather the country not burn to ashes as a result. Eisenhower wasn't that long ago guys.


Here, have a really good article about struggling southerners trying to organize a Chinese factory in Alabama

I'm trying to picture a crowd of people at what is essentially a political rally saying the Pledge of Allegiance to a poster of 9/11, and it seems incredibly creepy

Wraith of J.O.I. fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Dec 2, 2015

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

Raskolnikov38 posted:

Georgia's governor threatened to secede from the Confederacy several times during the war. Most hilarious were the ones from during Sherman's Georgia campaign.

"Please save us from this red haired Ohioan, oh and also we're gonna take our ball and go home"

well when there's an army rampaging through your countryside and the national forces are more or less letting him to it that's a great time to raise grievances

georgia was a deep south state though and firmly fixed in the confederacy. a post-victory CSA certainly would have had to deal with appalachian parts of tennessee, north carolina, and a bit of georgia trying to secede themselves shortly after the end of the war

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Swords used by someone who believed he was a reincarnation of ancient warriors don't count.

Also, QOTD candidate:

"And I remind them that I’m a former soldier and I make sense, I think, because soldiers really have to live in the real world, we have to be reality-based, because bullets rip through flesh." --Rep. Chris Gibson (R-NY), on why he supports action on climate change.

derra
Dec 29, 2012
I've always read broadswords for the duel. They had to go to Missouri since dueling was illegal in IL, and Lincoln WAS a state representative.

There is a Lincoln axe story though - on at least one occasion he would hold one fully extended without his arm quivering to impress troops.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Popular Thug Drink posted:

well when there's an army rampaging through your countryside and the national forces are more or less letting him to it that's a great time to raise grievances

I always felt Joe Johnston got the short end of the stick but maybe that's just the effect of the disaster that was John Bell Hood.

Fried Chicken
Jan 9, 2011

Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

GalacticAcid posted:

Jacobin has a lovely rep on these forums but they published a fantastic interview with Foner in their Civil War + Reconstruction issue.

Eric Foner is fantastic and everyone should read his books and articles

Gin and Juche
Apr 3, 2008

The Highest Judge of Paradise
Shiki Eiki
YAMAXANADU

Fried Chicken posted:

Do you not?


anyways, after that anecdote about Lincoln, here's one about Christie


Jesus, what has the GOP come to? You know, I don't like them, but I still want to see the party recover if for no other reason than eventually they will win again and I'd rather the country not burn to ashes as a result. Eisenhower wasn't that long ago guys.


Here, have a really good article about struggling southerners trying to organize a Chinese factory in Alabama

That was an interesting read.

I recall during my holiday back in SC a bunch of billboards in North Charleston went up for Boeing urging employs "Don't sign [union cards] without knowing the facts!"

Hopefully it catches on.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

zoux posted:

Is there any truth to the Lost Causer/States' Rights claims that the South was on the verge of abolishing slavery themselves? Seems to me like you wouldn't go to war over a thing you're about to get rid of anyway.

No there isn't. There are multiple speeches and official state declarations by states in the CSA that make it clear they were not giving up slavery and they were doubling down on it. It's revisionist garbage by people incapable of admitting their ancestors were slavers or apologists for it. Even the "common man" argument is bullshit. John Q RandomSouthernBoy wasn't fighting for some noble cause of freedom from the North.


I really wish some health company would just start selling Snake Oil branded supplements and watch how many idiots still buy them.

Toph Bei Fong posted:

I first read that as "help energize midichlorian function", which, I guess, it has just about as much a chance of actually doing...

Glad to know I'm not the only one who did this.

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

Raskolnikov38 posted:

I always felt Joe Johnston got the short end of the stick but maybe that's just the effect of the disaster that was John Bell Hood.

yeah davis was looking for a scapegoat, johnston rebuilt the morale and fighting capacity of the army of tennessee but after failing in the peninsular campaign and losing vicksburg johnston was On Notice with confederate high command. so when he got continually pushed back to atlanta by sherman davis was just fed up. johnston's problem was that he was a good general but not a great general, who had to square off against the best generals the north had. kind of a wrong place wrong time guy

there really wasn't much johnston could do about atlanta, sherman had more dudes and was excellent at dislodging and outflanking. at best he could have held atlanta through the election of 1864

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


gradenko_2000 posted:

The idea behind this is based on historical hindsight: the industrial revolution would have changed up economics and manufacturing so much that slavery would no longer have been a feasible backbone for the Southern economy and they would have had to either adapt or collapse.

It's also largely BS, as the Southeners only ever had plans to expand slavery at the time.

that's not even true, it never would have become financially unfeasible. brazil only dropped slavery because the british threatened to stop buying their stuff if they didn't. and then the british in their own caribbean slave colonies only ended it in theory and replaced it with subcontinental indian indentured labor

icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Dec 2, 2015

  • Locked thread