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Pavlov posted:Is there any point to all the (D) ships sold on the market? Does anyone ever buy those? Yeah I hope some feature of hull upkeep/upgrading is added in the official Industry update, whenever it comes. We've got examples of Degraded, Normal, and Advanced hulls now. It fits!
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Dec 3, 2015 04:07
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Pavlov posted:Is there any point to all the (D) ships sold on the market? Does anyone ever buy those? They might be theoretically useful for hauling cargo in a pinch or acting as a decoy. But no I've not bought one. e: ^^^ yeah that's it, all part of the bigger puzzle.
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Dec 3, 2015 04:18
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.7.1 is supposed to make them flood the markets less. I wish you could get a fully functional version of that Mule with the medium universal turret.
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Dec 3, 2015 04:29
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If you're not actually going to use them in combat, Cerberus (D)'s are a solid light freighter - good cargo bay, cheap, fast, highly available. Of course, the fixpatch making (D) hulls into giant sensor blips will probably make that less attractive.
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Dec 3, 2015 04:30
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Pavlov posted:Is there any point to all the (D) ships sold on the market? Does anyone ever buy those? They exist so pirates, the low-level generic enemy, will be flying inferior ships. Theoretically, a new player will be more able to find a fight that he can win if any "even" fight is against a slightly inferior foe. More experienced players who already have good skill can start a new game and fight huge battles and go up several levels at a time. This lets them skip the early game if they find that boring.
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Dec 3, 2015 05:59
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dis astranagant posted:You can rid up an SO Sunder that can fire a plasma cannon for all 150 seconds of peak performance and then some. It's glorious. Only ship I've used with SO so far is my medusa, combined with augmented engines so it can hunt down that 200k bounty retreating in some piece of poo poo frigate.
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Dec 3, 2015 06:49
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I would really like to see (D) ships just get moved to easy difficulty, so that they can have some degree of an affect on the world beyond player fodder. They can't even threaten merchant fleets because those fleets are at least faster and are almost always better equipped.
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Dec 3, 2015 07:28
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The only problem is that the AI cannot comprehend the majesty of the dickship and refuses to use the plasma cannon if you give it any other weapons. Even point defenses will cause it to hang back forever away from everything if there is so much as a single missile on screen.
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Dec 3, 2015 07:28
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Lprsti99 posted:You are mixing up BRDY and Shadowyards. And shame on the rest of you for not noticing. Ahh I was wondering why some of the ships didn't seem to match the colour scheme. I'm used to playing them in SS+ with both installed.
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Dec 3, 2015 07:40
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Gobblecoque posted:I would really like to see (D) ships just get moved to easy difficulty, so that they can have some degree of an affect on the world beyond player fodder. They can't even threaten merchant fleets because those fleets are at least faster and are almost always better equipped. I really don't like the idea of (D) ships anyway. I'd much rather see them get rid of the junk class and instead make things about tradeoffs. For example there could be a (P) which would be a pirate version which has bigger engines but is really easy to detect on sensors.
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Dec 3, 2015 21:23
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Making Pirates faster is absolutely the wrong thing to do. The early game is hard enough, especially for newcomers. If pirates were not only not slower, but actually faster than everyone you can kiss everyone who's not a tactical combat master goodbye, because they'll have to be to survive anything at the start. Imagine if the basic enemies in Mount and Blade were cavalry instead of peasants - it'd be like that. Edit: Not there isn't room for a couple of special Pirate-brand pursuit ships, but there would have be safeguards in place to make sure every pirate fleet contains at least 1 D ship to slow the fleet down on the strategic map. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 21:32
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I really don't like the idea of (D) ships anyway. I'd much rather see them get rid of the junk class and instead make things about tradeoffs. For example there could be a (P) which would be a pirate version which has bigger engines but is really easy to detect on sensors. It is likely that there will be some integration with hull types and industry, so when that rolls around the D-type hulls might make more sense. But right now the straight downgrade is extremely unappealing and I basically never utilize a D-type hull. Maybe if he made them consume significantly less supplies or deployment points they would be worth it.
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Dec 3, 2015 21:36
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DatonKallandor posted:Making Pirates faster is absolutely the wrong thing to do. The early game is hard enough, especially for newcomers. If pirates were not only not slower, but actually faster than everyone you can kiss everyone who's not a tactical combat master goodbye, because they'll have to be to survive anything at the start. So, starting with the Khergits or Sarranids, then.
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Dec 3, 2015 21:42
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I think you guys are missing the point of the D class ships. The in game blurb literally states that these are ships that would be completely written off in normal times, and only the truly mad or desperate would consider taking one into combat. The player should be avoiding them unless they fit those criteria. With that in mind they are perfectly fine as an enemy class of ship that give new characters an enemy to bully. Pirates do get the short end of the stick in game but the only viable way to help them I could think of that wouldn't also shaft the player would be to lower the number of military patrols in game but then the game world starts to feel empty. Anyways, anyone else notice with new update that a pretty large area of north and west hyperspace is partitioned out similar to the traversable areas in the south and east? I'm curious if its extra space for modders or maybe perhaps Alex leaving himself room to add more factions down the line? There's enough room for at least 2 more major factions up there without feeling cramped and I don't feel like it would be more of the same since the Hegemony is supposed to be one of if not the largest faction and they are already pretty well penned in to the south-east.
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Dec 3, 2015 22:12
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I think I've made a huge mistake trying to play for the first time in two major versions with the Interstellar Imperium mod. My biggest problem is less finding weapons for them (though that's also an issue, since I get real spergy with faction mods and try to play almost exclusively with faction ships+faction weapons when I can) and more finding duplicates of those weapons. Babylon, the so called "Interstellar Bazaar" only has about one gun of each type, and it's the only military market that they have. I briefly installed another mod--Diable Avionics--and had no issues finding their poo poo, even in the civilian and black markets. How do shops get more weapon stock, exactly? The last time I played it usually came from giant supply fleets spawning in system, but that obviously doesn't fly anymore.
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Dec 3, 2015 22:15
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The problem people have with (D) hulls is mostly how much the black markets are flooded with them instead of useful hardware, which is supposed to be changing for .7.1
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Dec 3, 2015 22:25
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AtillatheBum posted:I think you guys are missing the point of the D class ships. The in game blurb literally states that these are ships that would be completely written off in normal times, and only the truly mad or desperate would consider taking one into combat. The player should be avoiding them unless they fit those criteria. With that in mind they are perfectly fine as an enemy class of ship that give new characters an enemy to bully. Pirates do get the short end of the stick in game but the only viable way to help them I could think of that wouldn't also shaft the player would be to lower the number of military patrols in game but then the game world starts to feel empty. Run down pirates using them make sense. The original question was about why there were so many available to the player though. There just never seems to be a good reason to buy them (besides the odd mentioned cargo hauler). They seem almost more like a liability than an asset. It would be interesting if there was a reason to run fleets of cheap, disposable D ships, but that doesn't ever seem to be a good idea.
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Dec 3, 2015 22:38
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Pavlov posted:Run down pirates using them make sense. The original question was about why there were so many available to the player though. There just never seems to be a good reason to buy them (besides the odd mentioned cargo hauler). They seem almost more like a liability than an asset. It would be interesting if there was a reason to run fleets of cheap, disposable D ships, but that doesn't ever seem to be a good idea. See the 0.7.1 patch notes, it is unintended that so many (D) hulls are showing up in the markets.
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Dec 3, 2015 22:46
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I did once buy a D class ship to give myself that little extra bit of cargo space to haul a huge procurement contract, then immediately sold the ship when I got to my destination. Did I save money by buying/selling the ship even while using more fuel to get to my destination? Did it work out over the extra supplies I would have burned by being over my cargo limit? (until I consumed enough supplies to get under it on the way..) I have no idea! 
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Dec 3, 2015 22:52
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I really don't like the idea of (D) ships anyway. I'd much rather see them get rid of the junk class and instead make things about tradeoffs. For example there could be a (P) which would be a pirate version which has bigger engines but is really easy to detect on sensors. That's the luddic path variant. It's ridiculously deadly.
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Dec 3, 2015 23:25
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OwlFancier posted:That's the luddic path variant. It's ridiculously deadly. Can't wait to see less (D) class in the markets though. The assholes that try to sell that poo poo should be shot. There's just no reason to ever want to buy them.
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Dec 3, 2015 23:36
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Kenshin posted:See the 0.7.1 patch notes, it is unintended that so many (D) hulls are showing up in the markets. I've heard. That just changes the problem from "they're useless, why sell so many" to "they're useless, why sell any at all". Making due with busted up junkers is pretty thematic for the game, so I'd rather see them present and with a purpose than ignored and marginalized.
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Dec 3, 2015 23:48
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AtillatheBum posted:Anyways, anyone else notice with new update that a pretty large area of north and west hyperspace is partitioned out similar to the traversable areas in the south and east? I'm curious if its extra space for modders or maybe perhaps Alex leaving himself room to add more factions down the line? Pretty sure it's explicitly room for modders to add systems. Somebody complained about mods not having space for their own systems without jamming them uncomfortably close to already-existing systems and Alex or the art guy, don't remember which, said, "good point, here's a new galaxy map 150% larger with lots of space for mod systems".
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Dec 4, 2015 00:13
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McGiggins posted:Some mod or another does (did?) offer the ability to refit them to full performance for a price. Yep, it is Tiandong indeed and I will be updating it right after SS 0.7.1a drops. Though to be more specific, it converts the ship into their modified version and this works on (D) and standard hulls.
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Dec 4, 2015 00:27
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I hope .7.1 comes out soon because I haven't played SS since just before Thanksgiving week and now I'm wanting to play again but not before .7.1 drops.
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Dec 4, 2015 00:49
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Would it be possible to add the (D) to Normal conversion option as well, as a basic refit and repair service? Thematically, it'd be a huge economical service to offer (and help explain how Tiandong keeps economically powerful), and for the player, it would give a purpose to all the (D) ships. They're not trash, they're fixer uppers!  I don't know the difficulty involved, merely my uninformed submission.
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Dec 4, 2015 01:15
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McGiggins posted:Would it be possible to add the (D) to Normal conversion option as well, as a basic refit and repair service? I'd like to see this as a use for low levels of the industral skill branch, especially if another one increases the chance of getting salvagable/boardable craft.
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Dec 4, 2015 01:26
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Wait, I think I have asked that before.  If so, ignore the suggestion.
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Dec 4, 2015 02:52
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Nexerilin I finally get to see some sort of meat to the campaign and see huge empires try to take plane- oh wait nevermind the invasion fleet's gone off chasing a pirate contact consisting of a single shuttle.
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Dec 4, 2015 09:01
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McGiggins posted:Would it be possible to add the (D) to Normal conversion option as well, as a basic refit and repair service? The only way to allow conversion to the standard model and not THI ones would be to just add an entirely different submarket. Due to how this rig works, you can have more than one ship convert into something, but the end result can only be a single type of vessel. CONVERSION_TABLE.put("conquest", "tiandong_xu_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("atlas", "tiandong_xiakou_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("ii_eagle_i", "tiandong_shouren_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("eagle", "tiandong_shouren_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("venture", "tiandong_dingjun_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("gemini", "tiandong_tianshui_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("ssp_bull", "tiandong_chengdu_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("buffalo2", "tiandong_chengdu_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("buffalo", "tiandong_chengdu_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("ii_hammerhead_i", "tiandong_hujing_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("hammerhead", "tiandong_hujing_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("enforcer", "tiandong_hanzhong_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("roidertarsus", "tiandong_tuolu_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("tarsus", "tiandong_tuolu_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("ssp_camel", "tiandong_guan_du_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("mule", "tiandong_guan_du_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("vigilance", "tiandong_wujun_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("brawler", "tiandong_nanzhong_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("ssp_venom", "tiandong_luo_yang_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("hound", "tiandong_luo_yang_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("lasher", "tiandong_lao_hu_Hull"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("warthog_wing", "tiandong_hefei_wing"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("mining_drone_wing", "tiandong_armoredminingdrone_wing"); CONVERSION_TABLE.put("talon_wing", "tiandong_yiling_wing"); The issue is the station that offers this service already has the max number of markets, and honestly I would rather not have the faction offer the option to fix (D) ships in any manner besides conversion to their own model as it would water down one of the purposes of the mod. Already being able to repair (D) ships / convert normal ones to their version is incredibly powerful, and in the end it would not be terribly hard to create an alternate version of this retrofitting submarket rig for a different station that works in a different manner though I will not be doing this.
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Dec 4, 2015 09:02
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A separate mod that adds a repair shop to the abandoned station (or replaces it with an abandoned Shipyard or something) would probably be incredibly popular.
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Dec 4, 2015 14:43
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DatonKallandor posted:A separate mod that adds a repair shop to the abandoned station (or replaces it with an abandoned Shipyard or something) would probably be incredibly popular. The scripting's just java right? I'm kind of tempted to do this. Meso do you know if the (D) attribute for ships is stored uniformly, or would this take manual conversion tables too?
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Dec 4, 2015 18:45
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If you haven't tried it, assembling a large fleet of the first and cheapest ships you can find and going after big bounties ASAP is loads of fun. My lovely flagship was an Enforcer(D) with an assault chaingun, autocannon, three thumpers, and four rocket launchers. With safety overrides in place, it could keep shooting every barrel for all 200ish seconds of its operational life, and with frequent burn drives it could keep up with my lovely frigate fleet. That rusty bullet bucket claimed at least twenty times its value in bounties before being lost to a pirate Eagle(D)'s dying explosion. When you pick up a steady pile of lovely cheap frigates, you have a lot of casualties, and a fair amount of logistical overhead, so it's very much worth getting some Leadership & CrewXP skills, so that your Green-padded rosters get competent. Going full murder-hobo with a third-hand black-market crapfleet is maybe more entertaining than having to fret about every lost Wolf, and I would be sad to see shitps go.
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Dec 4, 2015 19:11
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I'm getting constant null crashes 
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Dec 4, 2015 19:22
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StringOfLetters posted:If you haven't tried it, assembling a large fleet of the first and cheapest ships you can find and going after big bounties ASAP is loads of fun. My lovely flagship was an Enforcer(D) with an assault chaingun, autocannon, three thumpers, and four rocket launchers. With safety overrides in place, it could keep shooting every barrel for all 200ish seconds of its operational life, and with frequent burn drives it could keep up with my lovely frigate fleet. That rusty bullet bucket claimed at least twenty times its value in bounties before being lost to a pirate Eagle(D)'s dying explosion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKKOPIvXEHU but a little shittier
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Dec 4, 2015 19:32
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Annihilator Rockets are the loving best, especially on Enforcers where you get four of them at once.
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Dec 4, 2015 19:36
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-Troika- posted:I'm getting constant null crashes I assume you play with mods and one of them have a misspelled reference somewhere. Sometimes mod authors miss these things since they need to be triggered by player interaction/world generation.
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Dec 4, 2015 19:36
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Patch is out http://fractalsoftworks.com/2015/12/04/starsector-0-7-1a-release/
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Dec 4, 2015 20:11
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Now we just need BRDY ASAP!
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Dec 4, 2015 20:26
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I played the campaign for the first time, after a maybe 2 hours of missions to figure out the controls and it was just as difficult as I'd expect. After losing my starter ship several times, I ended up successfully trading hundreds of units of heavy machinery for huge profits, and ended up buying a fast carrier with 3 fighter wings. I easily destroyed a bunch of wimpy fleets in hyperspace only to jump to a system with no market or fuel and starving to death. 5/5
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Dec 4, 2015 20:33
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