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Not denying Japan is hosed up, but it's still always cool to see purestrain orientalism about the true nature of the cruel, inscrutable fascist JapaneseRekinom posted:multicultural nation ... France France: notably successful at assimilating minority ethnic groups, as we've seen in the news lately icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 22:06
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It isn't exactly an ode to inscrutable orientalism to suggest that Japan would rather eat all the dicks than have immigration. There is a reason you can (well Japanese can) still tell whose family immigrated from Korea a couple of centuries ago.
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Dec 2, 2015 23:38
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No but implying there is only one way of thinking about it is.
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Dec 3, 2015 00:04
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ocrumsprug posted:There is a reason you can (well Japanese can) still tell whose family immigrated from Korea a couple of that's all japanese though 
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Dec 3, 2015 00:10
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ocrumsprug posted:There is a reason you can (well Japanese can) still tell whose family immigrated from Korea a couple of centuries ago. Some Japanese like to think they can tell, but turns out they're full of poo poo. And that's because: icantfindaname posted:that's all japanese though
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Dec 3, 2015 00:24
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icantfindaname posted:that's all japanese though What about the Ainu? Please think of the Ainu.
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Dec 3, 2015 00:25
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Has anyone actually successfully argued how they can immediately spot the differences between a Japanese and Korean person without it turning into a hyper racist rant?
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Dec 3, 2015 02:07
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Has anyone actually successfully argued how they can immediately spot the differences between a Japanese and Korean person without it turning into a hyper racist rant? Japanese don't have that much plastic in their face 
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Dec 3, 2015 02:16
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There are a ton of zanichi that have assimilated and you would never know until they tell you. The zainichi you know about are the ones who chose not to do so. For entirely legitimate reasons, I'd say; you shouldn't have to give up your heritage etc. However those people who say "zainichi" can never become Japanese!!! Are wrong; they can apply and get citizenship with no major problem; it's just sad that they have to, and have to give up any other citizenship at the same time.
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Dec 3, 2015 09:11
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Rekinom fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Dec 3, 2015 09:40
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Has anyone actually successfully argued how they can immediately spot the differences between a Japanese and Korean person without it turning into a hyper racist rant? Honestly, the easiest way to tell is subtle differences in their fashion, which you pick up on if you're around either for very long. 
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Dec 3, 2015 10:03
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Rekinom posted:Actually, I don't think Japanese people are racist or xenophobic. It's simply the only logical answer that consistently explains the overarching theme of their foreign and domestic policy over the last 100 years or so. Yeah you can tell a lot about a people by their leaders. It's why I think every American is a religious mass murderer.
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Dec 3, 2015 10:26
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Rekinom fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Dec 3, 2015 10:39
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Rekinom posted:Murder implies illegality, though. There's a gently caress lot of that, much like your orientalism.
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Dec 3, 2015 11:06
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Rekinom fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Dec 3, 2015 11:55
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icantfindaname posted:I'm not denying Japan is hosed up, but it's still always cool to see purestrain orientalism about the true nature of the cruel, inscrutable fascist Japanese If what they posted was "purestrain," you must be living in a world free of most forms of exaggeration, and I envy you. Stop being silly. Japan's not super friendly to immigration. Immigration on a much larger scale would solve a lot of problems. These things are facts. They are the most mainstream of mainstream opinons on this topic, and jumping all over them for stating them in a way you didn't care for is just stupid tone policing bullshit. LimburgLimbo posted:There are a ton of zanichi that have assimilated and you would never know until they tell you. The part where, "until they tell you," is pretty salient here since most of them survive by just letting everyone assume their family has been in Japan since the beginning of time. So if you mean, "people who can 100% become indistinguishable from Japanese people to Japanese people" have an okay time of it then yeah, I guess you're right. Rekinom posted:If I'm coming off as orientalist, then that's not my intention, as I haven't said or implied anything bad or wrong about Japan or Japanese people. Just wanted to have a public policy discussion, I guess. The "in a million years" kind of phrasing was probably an overstatement, but beyond that it didn't seem too off the mark. ErIog fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 12:37
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LimburgLimbo posted:However those people who say "zainichi" can never become Japanese!!! Are wrong; they can apply and get citizenship with no major problem; it's just sad that they have to, and have to give up any other citizenship at the same time.
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Dec 3, 2015 14:22
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Rekinom posted:Actually, I don't think Japanese people are racist or xenophobic. It's simply the only logical answer that consistently explains the overarching theme of their foreign and domestic policy over the last 100 years or so. Hmm, I wonder if there was a major shift in their policy less than 100 years ago.
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Dec 3, 2015 14:28
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ErIog posted:If what they posted was "purestrain," you must be living in a world free of most forms of exaggeration, and I envy you. Stop being silly. Japan's not super friendly to immigration. Immigration on a much larger scale would solve a lot of problems. These things are facts. They are the most mainstream of mainstream opinons on this topic, and jumping all over them for stating them in a way you didn't care for is just stupid tone policing bullshit. The idea that Japan, or the Japanese ruling class cares so much more about 'the Japanese way of life' than anything else that they would literally rather waste away into nothing than allow a single drop of non-Yamato blood on their island is a massive [citation needed] and also racist and orientalist yeah, sorry. You're talking about a country whose almost sole objective since 1870 has been development and catching up to 'the West' culturally, militarily and economically. You're already seeing Abe and friends desperately pulling on the lever to put more women to work to try to revive the economy, even with Abe being about as close to a cartoon fascist as you'll ever get. At the same time, obviously, they're also racists who would rather not have foreigners around and would rather have women stay at home making babies where they belong, but to say that they don't care at all about things like GDP is in direct contradiction to like 150 years of Japanese history and does in fact reek of orientalism, especially when you contrast it one sentence later to the rational, white Western Wall Street stockbroker quote:It's like asking who is more successful, a hedge fund manager on Wall Street, or an enlightened Buddhist monk. Two completely different value systems. icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 15:28
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icantfindaname posted:Japan hasn't actually literally been stagnant since 1990, they hosed up the response to the early 90s recession pretty bad but they did return to mild growth for a while in the late 90s and 2000s up to '08. Plus that's just GDP, incomes also continued rising faster than GDP growth for a while. 1990 is just when the US realized that they weren't magic Oriental supermen who were going to take over the world and the country dropped from the US consciousness to be replaced by bombing Arabs full-time Nah early 90s was when the whole East Asia figure out it was pretty easy to copy what Japan was doing. There is no reason why Japan has so much production trade revenue, being in the further part of the trade route.
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Dec 3, 2015 15:41
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Yet all those levers he is pulling don't appear to be connected to anything in actual Japanese society. The failure of Japan's experiment in cartoonish fascism will probably forever remain an inscrutable mystery.
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Dec 3, 2015 15:47
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icantfindaname posted:The idea that Japan, or the Japanese ruling class cares so much more about 'the Japanese way of life' than anything else that they would literally rather waste away into nothing than allow a single drop of non-Yamato blood on their island is a massive [citation needed] and also racist and orientalist yeah, sorry. This is a straw man. The point made was that they care more about preserving the status quo than increasing GDP. That's not controversial. The LDP is a conservative party. It's not shocking they want to preserve the status quo rather than institute real reforms that could end up changing the makeup of society in order to juice growth. icantfindaname posted:You're talking about a country whose almost sole objective since 1870 has been development and catching up to 'the West' culturally, militarily and economically. You're already seeing Abe and friends desperately pulling on the lever to put more women to work to try to revive the economy, even with Abe being about as close to a cartoon fascist as you'll ever get. This is hilarious. Abe isn't desperately pulling on anything. Womenomics is a cheap political ploy designed to make the electorate and the world think he cares about equality in some way. He has outlined some goals. He has done almost nothing to actually move Japanese society toward those goals. Even the most concrete of his plans, the day care initiative, falls well short of actually meeting demand for those services. icantfindaname posted:At the same time, obviously, they're also racists who would rather not have foreigners around and would rather have women stay at home making babies where they belong, but to say that they don't care at all about things like GDP is in direct contradiction to like 150 years of Japanese history and does in fact reek of orientalism, especially when you contrast it one sentence later to the rational, white Western Wall Street stockbroker It's very clear that GDP growth is linked to population growth. It's not some fringe theory. It's well understood that it's real hard to grow the economy if the population itself is shrinking. So there's a mechanism right there for them to increase economic activity that for some reason they seem reticent to make use of. I wonder what that reason might be! Sure, the Abe administration probably does care about GDP growth to some extent. However, to pretend they're working as hard as they possibly can to achieve it is pure fantasy. There's tons of people who would love to come to Japan that would be a boon to the Japanese economy. Japan is a safe rich country with many opportunities for people. A lot of those people, such as nurses, even work in the specific sectors Japan desperately requires at the moment. Still, again, for some reason that according to you couldn't possibly be motivated by any ill will, there's reticence to make use of those people. With all that on the table I don't understand how you can argue with the point that the current administration cares more about the status quo than they do increasing GDP. It's very clear. It's been true for a long time, and dumb bullshit about comparisons between stock brokers and Buddhist monks doesn't change that basic fact no matter how much you dislike the tone that accompanied it. Abe's pulling on all the levers except the one that's known to work pretty well. Maybe a different political party could open things up. Historically speaking, though, the likelihood of an opposition party getting its poo poo together to do that is low. So we're left with the situation we have now where the immigration policy is damaging the country, and there's no political will to change it. ErIog fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 16:37
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icantfindaname posted:The idea that Japan, or the Japanese ruling class cares so much more about 'the Japanese way of life' than anything else that they would literally rather waste away into nothing than allow a single drop of non-Yamato blood on their island is a massive [citation needed] and also racist and orientalist yeah, sorry. As it stands, nurses were one of the 'more skilled' laborers that Japan was importing and the retention rate on that was abysmal. Actually, I just recently saw this as well: Retailers, builders rely on foreigners to allay staff shortages. So Japan is even starting to import labor staff into more public facing jobs as well, even if it still amounts to indentured servitude: quote:Those who manage to get a job will study the Japanese language and technical skills over a half-year period in their home country and then head to Japan. Employers pay the brokering Japanese organization and workers receive 70,000 yen to 80,000 yen ($565 to $645) per month after subtracting fees for room and board.
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Dec 4, 2015 11:46
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I've never seen anything more wrong and racist about everything in my life than this thread.
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Dec 4, 2015 14:36
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hadji murad posted:I've never seen anything more wrong and racist about everything in my life than this thread. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3693893&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 ?
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Dec 7, 2015 09:12
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It's true anyone that has anything bad to say about the glorious Japan is a big racist
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Dec 8, 2015 03:05
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Was wondering if anyone has ever seen an alternate history story about Russia invading Japan? Seems like a northern communist Japan and Southern Allies Japan would be an interesting scenario.
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Dec 25, 2015 13:47
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Ran Mad Dog posted:It's true anyone that has anything bad to say about the glorious Japan is a big racist You've checked Hadji's post history in this thread, right?
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Dec 25, 2015 13:52
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nickmeister posted:Was wondering if anyone has ever seen an alternate history story about Russia invading Japan? Seems like a northern communist Japan and Southern Allies Japan would be an interesting scenario. Can't find anything. The Russo-Japanese War is sufficiently obscure and the Russians were sufficiently, uh, preoccupied with Eastern Europe throughout WWII that it doesn't seem to have been a plausible-enough scenario to ping any alt history writer's radar. But it'd still be really interesting to read. Chuck Dixon's Storming Paradise, Douglas Niles' Macarthur's War, Robert Conoy's 1945, and Alfred Koppel's The Burning Mountain all are all "What if the US invaded Japan" alt history, though, if an invasion is what you're looking for?
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Dec 25, 2015 14:02
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nickmeister posted:Was wondering if anyone has ever seen an alternate history story about Russia invading Japan? Seems like a northern communist Japan and Southern Allies Japan would be an interesting scenario. This was the exact setup of Ring of Red for Playstation 2.
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Dec 25, 2015 14:12
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Combed Thunderclap posted:Can't find anything. The Russo-Japanese War is sufficiently obscure and the Russians were sufficiently, uh, preoccupied with Eastern Europe throughout WWII that it doesn't seem to have been a plausible-enough scenario to ping any alt history writer's radar. But it'd still be really interesting to read. Yeah, I did see some "US invades Japan" type stuff, but I was wondering specifically about the "Russia and US divide Japan" scenario. I figured that sort of thing would be too obscure for any Western writer to care about. Personally, I think a lot of alt-history stuff is pretty implausible, but whatever, it's still interesting. BattleHork posted:This was the exact setup of Ring of Red for Playstation 2. Wow, yeah, exactly what I was thinking about. Have you played this game? Is it good, or just good ol' heavy-handed anime?
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Dec 25, 2015 14:24
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There were some proposals to divide Japan that way, but they were never actually what the allies wanted. Even then the Soviets would only get a fourth to a third of the country with the US, UK and sometimes nationalist China getting the other portions. I honestly don't know why you'd want to read alt-history anyway. Its almost always pap.
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Dec 25, 2015 14:46
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I remember that exact scenario being the setup for a pretty cute romantic anime movie called "The place promised to us in our early days", but it doesn't go too far into the world building.
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Dec 25, 2015 17:00
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Cliff Racer posted:There were some proposals to divide Japan that way, but they were never actually what the allies wanted. Even then the Soviets would only get a fourth to a third of the country with the US, UK and sometimes nationalist China getting the other portions. Can you post about this or links about this, here or in the milhist thread, because this is the first ive heard. Especially with Nationalist China getting a piece.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:22
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How much of a thing is this, actually? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/29/world/asia/comfort-women-south-korea-japan.html
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Dec 28, 2015 16:27
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Toshimo posted:How much of a thing is this, actually?
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Dec 28, 2015 16:46
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Toshimo posted:How much of a thing is this, actually? This article said the surviving comfort women were angry that the agreement didn't involve Japan taking legal responsibility. Can someone explain this because I don't really understand what legal responsibility would entail. All the people whose committed those crimes are surely long dead. What difference is there between ambiguously and unambiguously taking legal responsibility besides semantics?
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Dec 28, 2015 18:52
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Wittgen posted:This article said the surviving comfort women were angry that the agreement didn't involve Japan taking legal responsibility. Can someone explain this because I don't really understand what legal responsibility would entail. All the people whose committed those crimes are surely long dead. What difference is there between ambiguously and unambiguously taking legal responsibility besides semantics? Welcome to China/Korea/Japan politics.
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Dec 28, 2015 23:54
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ntan1 posted:Welcome to China/Korea/Japan politics. There is no apology that will ever be accepted, and Japan is running out of people concerned enough to keep trying.
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Dec 29, 2015 00:51
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Wittgen posted:This article said the surviving comfort women were angry that the agreement didn't involve Japan taking legal responsibility. Can someone explain this because I don't really understand what legal responsibility would entail. All the people whose committed those crimes are surely long dead. What difference is there between ambiguously and unambiguously taking legal responsibility besides semantics? I'm assuming it means they would prosecute the people who came up with and put the plan into action.
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Dec 29, 2015 01:00
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