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Mr Enderby posted:Trouble is, there's still far to much material to comb through by hand, for England at least, but whimsical spelling makes it very hard to automate, even if you transcribe it all. Well yeah, I don't mean 'the sum total of everything written in the 17th century' but more 'everything pertaining to my PhD subject <x>'. 
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Dec 4, 2015 17:00
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feedmegin posted:Someone (I think actually it might have been Dr Parrott!) told me once in a tutorial that this is why the early modern is the ideal period for a historian; before that, we don't have enough material (like, there might be one or two accounts total written down even about major events), and after that once modern bureaucracy gets invented there's often too much for any one human to really get a handle on. I have never heard a modern historian bemoan a surplus of sources, and I have heard many an early modernist lament how they have entire chapters hanging on only a handful of documents. Too many sources is never a problem. If you find that it is the real problem is that you haven't focused your research question down enough or don't have a handle on what, exactly, you are looking for. This isn't to say that projects don't change upon contact with the archives, but finding you have too few things is a much more crippling issue than having to come up with a way to sift through a larger than anticipated source base. edit: this gets doubly important if you are asking more narrow questions, in which case you might only have that small handful of documents even in the modern era.
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Dec 4, 2015 17:02
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Mr Enderby posted:Trouble is, there's still far to much material to comb through by hand, for England at least, but whimsical spelling makes it very hard to automate, even if you transcribe it all. https://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Wallenstein_Hilfegesuch_an_Pappenheim_1632 was found by accident in the early 19th century. it had just been...stuck, i guess, into the haus-, hoff-, und staatsarchiv speaking of something almost, but not quite, like latin and people whose family names are never spelled the same way twice edit: speaking of, I found a zdenko von waldstein in the rolls. a member of the Elector of Saxony's Hoff-fahne, so it's decently prestigious, probably the perfect spot for a young cousin of someone important who's just started shopping his CV around HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Dec 4, 2015 |
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Dec 4, 2015 17:03
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Cyrano4747 posted:Too many sources is never a problem. diaf
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Dec 4, 2015 17:04
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HEY GAL posted:gently caress you, cyrano, i just asked my advisor how many of the saxon state archives's 30yw muster rolls i should look at and he said all of them My point  No-one would consider that remotely practical for, like, the whole of the German army for the whole of World War 1.
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Dec 4, 2015 17:40
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feedmegin posted:My point There are tons of studies that use huge data sets to make statistical statements about the German army during that period. You also don't have to look through every last paper to get enough information to make a statistically significant conclusion, and - again - it all depends on what kinds of questions you are asking. Different types of sources compiled in different ways are needed for approaching different issues.
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Dec 4, 2015 17:45
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feedmegin posted:My point That just means that there's room for far more focused works to deliver a better foundation for the broad overviews. History isn't just a collection of sweeping overviews, and as Cyrano said, there's also room for huge amounts of data to allow stronger general conclusions.
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Dec 4, 2015 17:47
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the great thing is i'll be competing against people with barely any statistical data at all. for some reason, even though the world is full of this poo poo, nobody's really moved beyond looking at published military manuals and simplicissimus to talk about how 30yw soldiers' lives went, except like, ten people. and i know most of them.
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Dec 4, 2015 17:53
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Mr Enderby posted:A lot of manuscripts from the founding collection in the British Library will be termed something like "Cotton, Cleopatra, D, VI, meaning "from the collection of Sir Robert Cotton, on the bookcase with the bust of Cleopatra standing on it, shelf D, sixth book from the left". It's a perfectly functional system, but I find it quite charming. At least the references are somewhat self-explanatory without a reference chart. Compare that to the Library of Congress system.
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Dec 4, 2015 17:54
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100 Years Ago The French treat the suggestion that the British might be allowed to take men away from Salonika to freeze at Gallipoli with all the Gallic scorn that such a suggestion deserves; meanwhile, on the peninsula, the newly-arrived mortar batteries get to work creating disgusting and gory anecdotes for historians to wince at. General Townshend is in no mood to leave Kut, and Louis Barthas is trying to avoid getting grabbed by the Giant Hand lurking just underneath what we must call, for lack of a better word, the "ground" on Vimy Ridge, as General Niessel redeems himself somewhat by appearing to give a poo poo.
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Dec 4, 2015 18:56
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Cyrano4747 posted:There are tons of studies that use huge data sets to make statistical statements about the German army during that period. You also don't have to look through every last paper to get enough information to make a statistically significant conclusion, and - again - it all depends on what kinds of questions you are asking. Different types of sources compiled in different ways are needed for approaching different issues. The most frustrating part of my thesis research was trying to piece together what one document said from brief excerpts or tangential and elliptical discussions in related files. In an ideal world I could have just looked at the original document, but the Admiralty's archive selection system made that impossible. What was the system, you ask? Well they would take the old files and chuck them in a furnace, keeping a small number more or less at random. Then of that number a bunch more got burned later on, and after several more rounds of chucking files into various furnaces up and down the country whatever was left went to the Public Record Office. The surviving files at the National Archives, then, are pretty much a random assortment of whatever a succession of janitors and civil service workmen decided not to throw into a fire. So you have lots of important policy papers and war plans missing, but a one page submission from the King's Harbourmaster at Dunghaven about Able Seaman Smedley-Fuckknuckles accidentally dropping a piece of anchor chain over the side of Her Majesty's Garbage Barge Pinafore is there. Incidentally, we know what files are missing because the central Admiralty Register that listed all the various dockets and files created went to the Public Record Office intact. Although even then there's gaps because it was written in pen and ink by a few clerks and they missed things sometimes because, for example, there was an annoying war going on from 1914-1918 and wars generate a lot of paperwork very quickly. This, of course, excludes all the files and documents that stayed in the Admiralty Library at the Ministry of Defence. The latter collection got sent to HM Naval Base Portsmouth and stuck in an old brick warehouse some years ago that's run by the Naval Historical Branch. Their librarian is a wonderful woman who does all she can to find what you're looking for, except for when she can't because although most of the documents from the Admiralty Library have reference numbers, there's no loving catalog and, of course, no money to create one. Sometimes it's enough to make me envy people who write about the Dark Ages, because they can always shrug and say "dunno, there's no sources about it." Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Dec 4, 2015 |
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Dec 4, 2015 21:45
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for some reason, 30yw infantry is good at records, but cavalry is not. why? 
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Dec 4, 2015 21:57
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HEY GAL posted:for some reason, 30yw infantry is good at records, but cavalry is not. why? They got places to be, not books to write!
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Dec 4, 2015 21:57
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HEY GAL posted:for some reason, 30yw infantry is good at records, but cavalry is not. why? the peasants were unwilling to donate hay, so the horses ate the muster rolls
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Dec 4, 2015 21:58
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VanSandman posted:They got places to be, not books to write! Might be unironically true. If you need to spend extra time grooming your horse and generally taking care of it on top of the other wartime maintenance you need to take care of you might have less patience for paperwork.
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Dec 4, 2015 21:59
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Tomn posted:Might be unironically true. If you need to spend extra time grooming your horse and generally taking care of it on top of the other wartime maintenance you need to take care of you might have less patience for paperwork. Infantry roll: E von Gunterrode Company of Foot, '23. The officers are always on the first page, which is why they're called the "prima plana," which is Latin for first page. This is badly preserved, but well organized. Officers listed by rank, as usual. The pay is even reckoned in two different currency systems at once, which is unusual.  Cav roll: Oynhausen Company of Cuirassiers, '31. Look at this bullshit. This is terrible. However, I haven't gone through this yet but the little circles in the margin might be cool, the musterschreiber is counting something with them...but what?  Edit: Lol, the second trumpeter has under his name: "Has been chatting with the enemy, but is daily awaited back." The third trumpeter is hanging out with the enemy as well, and the Wachtmeister has no armor. how even do these people war HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Dec 4, 2015 |
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Dec 4, 2015 22:26
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clerical work is below that of aristocrats also, i guess consorting with the enemy is only a crime for commoners!
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Dec 4, 2015 22:46
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Do you guys sometimes get the idea that your history student grandkids will be totally hosed because all the documents you work with are now Excel files that'll be long gone?
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Dec 4, 2015 22:50
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HEY GAL posted:Well, one assumes the musterschreiber has someone to do that for him. But yeah, infantry records are (usually) written with good handwriting and they often track pay. Cav records assiduously track the number of horses they have at any given moment, but almost never track pay and sometimes don't even mention the dudes' place of origin. Also the handwriting is, on average, sloppier. well, you try to write while riding
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Dec 4, 2015 23:00
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Phobophilia posted:clerical work is below that of aristocrats Well duh, a man of high birth is gathering valuable intelligence.
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Dec 4, 2015 23:03
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HEY GAL posted:Edit: Lol, the second trumpeter has under his name: "Has been chatting with the enemy, but is daily awaited back." The third trumpeter is hanging out with the enemy as well, and the Wachtmeister has no armor. how even do these people war I'm trying to remember whether or not I posted the story from autumn just gone about the BEF unit that arrived on the Somme for the first time, and a day later a couple of German officers came strolling across No Man's Land, looking for their French counterparts with whom they'd been playing cards and shooting the poo poo most nights for the last three months...
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Dec 4, 2015 23:05
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Phobophilia posted:clerical work is below that of aristocrats Hans Jacob and Abraham Eberhardt
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Dec 4, 2015 23:11
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IXIX posted:Do you guys sometimes get the idea that your history student grandkids will be totally hosed because all the documents you work with are now Excel files that'll be long gone? Fortunately those Excel files will be backed up 1,000 different ways and they'll probably outsource the data-mining work to an AI. I mean anything government- or corporate-related is automatically backed up, and that practice is extending into our personal lives as well. The real trick will be compiling everything and generating deeper understanding when you've got 15 copies of every Facebook picture, credit receipt, and work invoice spread over a dozen different cloud storage devices. Kaal fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Dec 4, 2015 |
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Dec 4, 2015 23:17
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Trin Tragula posted:I'm trying to remember whether or not I posted the story from autumn just gone about the BEF unit that arrived on the Somme for the first time, and a day later a couple of German officers came strolling across No Man's Land, looking for their French counterparts with whom they'd been playing cards and shooting the poo poo most nights for the last three months... I think you did! It rings a bell, anyway.
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Dec 4, 2015 23:26
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Trin Tragula posted:I'm trying to remember whether or not I posted the story from autumn just gone about the BEF unit that arrived on the Somme for the first time, and a day later a couple of German officers came strolling across No Man's Land, looking for their French counterparts with whom they'd been playing cards and shooting the poo poo most nights for the last three months...
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Dec 4, 2015 23:27
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HEY GAL posted:those dudes are commoners, my friend so who pays for the horse???
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Dec 4, 2015 23:30
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You would be surprised. Retention of digital records for archvists is a real worry.
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Dec 4, 2015 23:40
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Phobophilia posted:so who pays for the horse??? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Circle according to this cav roll (Kreise-troops, 31), this is itemized to a hilarious level:  See the second entry, with the fractions? That's shares of a horse. "The Council of Bitterfeld: 1/2 from the estate Grappen 1/4 Hans von Weiße, for the estate Reude 1/4 Ludwig von Sterckendorff." The trooper they raised is named George Lange, he comes from dresden, but he's sick right now. multiply that procedure by 1000 and you have a cavalry regiment. Or not. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Dec 4, 2015 |
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Dec 4, 2015 23:44
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Cyrano4747 posted:You would be surprised. Retention of digital records for archvists is a real worry.  in terms of storage capacity.Some places are not legally able to use cloud services, so a lot of potentially useful government data could be lost to various disasters. VVVV Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 4, 2015 23:46
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Cyrano4747 posted:You would be surprised. Retention of digital records for archvists is a real worry. It'll be fine, just put it in the cloud.
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Dec 5, 2015 00:04
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Ensign Expendable posted:It'll be fine, just put it in the cloud. The issue is more "What file formats are people going to use in 200 years?" Say what you will for ink on paper, but the only thing you'll ever need to read it is a light source. Can't say the same for a .pdf or even a .xml.
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Dec 5, 2015 01:05
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ArchangeI posted:The issue is more "What file formats are people going to use in 200 years?"
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Dec 5, 2015 01:11
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HEY GAL posted:some of my files are buggy tho The files I had for my MA were scorched pretty heavily I never asked if that was because of 1677 or 1942
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Dec 5, 2015 02:55
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 (spider, 1628)
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Dec 5, 2015 03:07
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HEY GAL posted:
Probably the greatest battle that author's ever fought and won. Look at how straight that writing is, them ain't fightin' hands wot held that quill.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:10
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Hogge Wild posted:In 1913 Hitler, Stalin, Tito, Trotsky and Freud all lived in Vienna. Not in the same house unfortunately, but someone should still make a sitcom out of it. Someone came close. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf9jJx0NSjw
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Dec 5, 2015 03:37
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ArchangeI posted:The issue is more "What file formats are people going to use in 200 years?" Say what you will for ink on paper, but the only thing you'll ever need to read it is a light source. Can't say the same for a .pdf or even a .xml. Well the nice thing about a .pdf is that it is intentionally designed to contain all the information needed to print or display it. It's largely independent of hardware/software concerns. And an .xml file is essentially just code and structure - a future historian might have issues viewing it exactly like we do, but they could probably generate a near facsimile pretty easily. The real issues will be for proprietary, in-house formats, or opening documents that have been corrupted over time.
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Dec 5, 2015 05:37
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Kaal posted:Well the nice thing about a .pdf is that it is intentionally designed to contain all the information needed to print or display it. It's largely independent of hardware/software concerns. And an .xml file is essentially just code and structure - a future historian might have issues viewing it exactly like we do, but they could probably generate a near facsimile pretty easily. The real issues will be for proprietary, in-house formats, or opening documents that have been corrupted over time. Winrar will still look the same and they won't have updated their website either.
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Dec 5, 2015 07:06
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JcDent posted:Winrar will still look the same and they won't have updated their website either. The year is 3909, but WinRar's free trial period keeps working.
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Dec 5, 2015 07:25
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FAUXTON posted:Probably the greatest battle that author's ever fought and won. Look at how straight that writing is, them ain't fightin' hands wot held that quill. Somebody go back in time and tell the Officers to have better hand-writing, because their legacy depends on it. Would their family's legacy be something that the nobles cared about? I half remember something about houses being a way to get people to care about something greater than themselves, but killing their family to inherit is not unheard of.
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Dec 5, 2015 11:06
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