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sbaldrick posted:America does not have a diversified economy, I'm sure FIRE would be their largest economic sector if it wasn't basically run on slave labour. They have a healthcare system that's more bankrupt then ours and a massively worse poverty problem. This isn't true, America's economy is significantly more diverse than Canada's. I can confirm the healthcare system is a dismal mess, Canada does much better. Ccs posted:If they created a goddamn sovereign wealth fund like Norway maybe this country could use that money to diversify its economy. But NOPE. Politically Albertan oil royalties could never have gone to a federal SWF, only the provincial Heritage fund. The history of the Heritage fund in comparison to the Norwegian fund is an indictment of the Albertan government and economy. The fiscally prudent Albertan govt/Conservative dynasty were outsaved by actual socialists for decades, revealing a basic moral inferiority. Even if they had the same discipline and saved at the same rate as Norway (which they politically never could have), the Alberta fund would only be ~10% the size of the Norwegian fund. The oil sands have always been only borderline productive, and now the chance to make any profit may have disappeared: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...rticle27577715/ If people start taking global warming seriously, Albertan oil will remain undeveloped forever.
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Dec 4, 2015 15:26
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Nocturtle posted:If people start taking global warming seriously, Albertan oil will remain undeveloped forever. Good burn this loving province to the ground
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Dec 4, 2015 16:16
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Ccs posted:Oh, okay cool. Now i don't feel guilty about saying "gently caress you" to America, though I'm probably still retain dual citizenship. Yay for filing two tax returns every year... And paying an accountant far too much money to come up with the number zero. I probably need to find one who actually pays attention, but accountants who can do U.S. taxes are relatively rare. In other news, the U.S. gained 211,000 jobs and Canada lost 35,700 last month.
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Dec 4, 2015 16:42
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Marijuana Nihilist posted:Good burn this loving province to the ground I'm getting so sick of most of the people here that I agree with this sentiment more and more every day. Everyone's complaining about the fact that they can't find a job, yet so many objectively useless people still appear to have jobs. Are you worse than the cook that took 90 loving minutes to make my hot wings the other night? Because he has a job! I'm sure his boss would love to hire you at this point.
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Dec 4, 2015 16:55
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PT6A posted:I'm getting so sick of most of the people here that I agree with this sentiment more and more every day. Everyone's complaining about the fact that they can't find a job, yet so many objectively useless people still appear to have jobs. Are you worse than the cook that took 90 loving minutes to make my hot wings the other night? Because he has a job! I'm sure his boss would love to hire you at this point. Odds are that cook is making min wage doing practically slave labour in a kitchen under a boss whose only concern is profits and not a positive work environment or work safety. That saying "A happy worker is a productive worker" has scientifically been proven to be true, but because of the shrinking job market and increasing work force most companies dont give a poo poo because everyone that isnt upper management is replaceable. Is it really any wonder why youth unemployment is so high and their income to debt ratio even worse? A generation or 2 ago those lovely jobs were what you did during/after high school for a couple summers until you could take your uneducated rear end into a production factory or work your foot into some corporate job. These days youre lucky if you can find a job even with a doctorate.
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Dec 4, 2015 17:42
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Furnaceface posted:Odds are that cook is making min wage doing practically slave labour in a kitchen under a boss whose only concern is profits and not a positive work environment or work safety. That saying "A happy worker is a productive worker" has scientifically been proven to be true, but because of the shrinking job market and increasing work force most companies dont give a poo poo because everyone that isnt upper management is replaceable. He was the only cook on shift at the time, and the pub wasn't busy. His inability to judge that you could fry more than one order of wings at the same time really can't be explained away by poor employment conditions, even if I agree it's a poo poo job and he's likely not well paid.
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Dec 4, 2015 17:46
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Alberta is going to get brain drained and will never recover, I bet dollars to doughnuts, and whatever province I move to I'll be paying into equalization for Alberta, it never ends. 20 years from now alberta will be the worst off province. OPEC is increasing production, Iran oil is hitting the market soon, Indonesia is also increasing output. The oil sands will never be cleaned up. Do it ironically fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Dec 4, 2015 |
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Dec 4, 2015 17:49
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I'm so loving stoked about Iran finally reopening to the world market. Largest proven reserves in the entire middle east, baby! Aging infrastructure which will triple output once it's been upgraded with outside capital! A country which saw itself get hosed by BP once, and will make Norway look like a free market in comparison to how tightly they'll control revenues! Saudi Arabia is making GBS threads itself. Good riddance.
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Dec 4, 2015 17:57
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Rime posted:Saudi Arabia is making GBS threads itself. Good riddance. Saudi Arabia being driven into the loving ground is honestly worth whatever bad happens to Alberta as a result. The world will be a better, safer place once that hellhole is shuffled off to the dustbin of history.
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Dec 4, 2015 18:06
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PT6A posted:He was the only cook on shift at the time, and the pub wasn't busy. His inability to judge that you could fry more than one order of wings at the same time really can't be explained away by poor employment conditions, even if I agree it's a poo poo job and he's likely not well paid. I doubt it was stupidity and most likely a case of not giving a gently caress. I spent a good 10 years shuffling between lovely jobs before I went back to school and the amount of spite workers develop towards their jobs and employers literally has no bounds. Do it ironically posted:Alberta is going to get brain drained and will never recover, I bet dollars to doughnuts, and whatever province I move to I'll be paying into equalization for Alberta, it never ends. The entire country is going to be brain drained if things dont change any time soon.
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Dec 4, 2015 18:11
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Guys, the rural bubble is finally popping in BC. After nearly a decade without anything on the market under $30k, I load up MLS to find hundreds, thousands of properties across the province being offload at ludicrous prices. Double-wides for $18k. Victorian walkups for $50k. But that's just the bottom end, the number of active listings on MLS has tripled since I last had a cruise through. It's a goddamn silent firesale, and it must have started within the past three months. I don't know what sparked it, but holy gently caress you should check it out. 
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Dec 4, 2015 18:42
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Rime posted:Guys, the rural bubble is finally popping in BC. After nearly a decade without anything on the market under $30k, I load up MLS to find hundreds, thousands of properties across the province being offload at ludicrous prices. Double-wides for $18k. Victorian walkups for $50k. But that's just the bottom end, the number of active listings on MLS has tripled since I last had a cruise through. Keep us posted. You seem to look at rural BC poo poo a lot so I have no idea what anything is worth relatively.
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Dec 4, 2015 19:22
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Do it ironically posted:Alberta is going to get brain drained and will never recover, I bet dollars to doughnuts, and whatever province I move to I'll be paying into equalization for Alberta, it never ends. brain drain implies that has Alberta has brains worth draining Nocturtle posted:If people start taking global warming seriously, Albertan oil will remain undeveloped forever. More importantly in the current $35-$40 per barrel market the oil sands are hilariously unprofitable compared to other options.
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Dec 4, 2015 19:32
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Baronjutter posted:Keep us posted. You seem to look at rural BC poo poo a lot so I have no idea what anything is worth relatively. It's worth nothing, because most of BC has no economy and thus no incomes to justify a house being priced anywhere over $100k. I maintain that when BC suffers a collapse of the prices that bubbled outwards from the GVRD, say a 40% or higher correction, that will be the 6-18 month herald of a major correction in the lower mainland market. I'm seeing some greater than 40% corrections, but it's mainly in places like Grand Forks or the Slocan. It's the sheer volume of property that's hit the market this fall at any price which should be of concern, it's unprecedented and I've been watching regularly since 2008.
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Dec 4, 2015 20:02
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Perhaps people are feeling a liquidity squeeze and trying to sell second properties.
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Dec 4, 2015 20:27
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Usually in the bubble people who bought properties in less ideal locations got screwed over the most. Places which were close to big job center also recovered the fastest
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Dec 4, 2015 20:58
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http://www.therebel.media/encana_s_texas_plan_proves_alberta_s_notley_s_ndp How valid is this take by Ezra Levant on the reason Encana isn't choosing to operate in Alberta. This was posted on my Facebook by a rigger. E: the article posits that it is the NDP and their policies not global crude prices driving their motivations.
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Dec 4, 2015 21:22
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Killin_Like_Bronson posted:http://www.therebel.media/encana_s_texas_plan_proves_alberta_s_notley_s_ndp I think it's somewhat valid, I wish the government would make whatever changes they want to make and loving be done with it. The current state of uncertainty is worse than if they just came out and did whatever they want to do, because right now everyone involved with planning must assume the worst case scenario may come to pass. The PCs, abetted by the CPC, had a horrible record on creating uncertainty too, mind you, and it's not like the industry would be back to 2013 levels if the NDP weren't in power, so Levant is still a moron, he's just not completely wrong this time.
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Dec 4, 2015 21:28
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If shale gas extraction and oil sands extraction were the same, and it was an either/or choice, maybe. But they're not, and I am sure Encana isn't scrapping one for the other. There are so many things working against Alberta at the moment, that you could put the head of Shell Oil in charge of Alberta and it wouldn't make any difference at all.
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Dec 4, 2015 22:15
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ocrumsprug posted:If shale gas extraction and oil sands extraction were the same, and it was an either/or choice, maybe. But they're not, and I am sure Encana isn't scrapping one for the other. Right but if the head of shell oil was in charge of Alberta capital would feel less "uncertain" and they'd probably create a ton of currently unprofitable jobs because they felt so certain that creeping socialism wasn't going to lower the price of oil further.
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Dec 4, 2015 22:17
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lol the socialist government of the province of alberta is too uncertain *continues to do business in the third world
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Dec 4, 2015 22:29
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Are there any national banks in Canada that aren't utter bastards?
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Dec 4, 2015 22:45
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Baronjutter posted:Right but if the head of shell oil was in charge of Alberta capital would feel less "uncertain" and they'd probably create a ton of currently unprofitable jobs because they felt so certain that creeping socialism wasn't going to lower the price of oil further. You're being disingenuous and you're intelligent enough to know better. It's not a matter of some vague feeling of uncertainty, it's a matter of the fact that the NDP has explicitly said they will be changing regulations and the royalty structure. This has to be factored into the cost of any proposal, and at the moment, since we don't know which changes are going to be made, everyone's using worst-case scenarios for their projections. It's not some sort of paranoia about what the NDP might do, it's very real concerns about the degree to which the NDP will do what they say they intend to do. Better that the NDP should get it over with, so at least these pencil-pushers can play with real numbers as opposed to their worst projections. The current status of "sitting on fat rear end" isn't doing anyone any good at the moment.
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Dec 4, 2015 22:48
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flashman posted:lol the socialist government of the province of alberta is too uncertain *continues to do business in the third world Uncertainty is a cost, but only one of many. Bribes are another cost, labour is another cost, and so on and so forth. Given that there is a lot of uncertainty in the third world, and a lot of bribery too, you've illustrated very well why producers might choose to continue producing in Alberta, even if other costs are higher. I'm just saying we should remove the "uncertainty" element entirely, even if it results in a royalty increase or additional regulations. It's better that we should charge businesses higher amounts of money, but be a good and trustworthy partner in all our dealings. Sadly, we must also deal with the legacy of the PCs provincially and the CPC federally which were none too spotless on that account...
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Dec 4, 2015 22:53
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El Scotch posted:Are there any national banks in Canada that aren't utter bastards? The common answer to this is "whichever bank I've dealt with the least over the course of my life." So, no.
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Dec 4, 2015 22:53
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PT6A posted:Uncertainty is a cost, but only one of many. Bribes are another cost, labour is another cost, and so on and so forth. Given that there is a lot of uncertainty in the third world, and a lot of bribery too, you've illustrated very well why producers might choose to continue producing in Alberta, even if other costs are higher. I'm just saying we should remove the "uncertainty" element entirely, even if it results in a royalty increase or additional regulations. It's better that we should charge businesses higher amounts of money, but be a good and trustworthy partner in all our dealings. Sadly, we must also deal with the legacy of the PCs provincially and the CPC federally which were none too spotless on that account... alberta oil is poo poo
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Dec 4, 2015 23:05
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You're being disingenuous too by suggesting that 100% certainty in what the tax and royalty structure would matter at the moment as well. It didn't last winter and spring (when it was certain under the PCs) and it doesn't matter now.
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Dec 4, 2015 23:10
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ocrumsprug posted:You're being disingenuous too by suggesting that 100% certainty in what the tax and royalty structure would matter at the moment as well. It didn't last winter and spring (when it was certain under the PCs) and it doesn't matter now. I'm not saying it would fix everything, of course. I think it would help; I don't believe it would revitalize the economy single-handedly. This is why I said Levant is still a moron, but he still has a very slight point.
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Dec 4, 2015 23:24
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flashman posted:alberta oil is poo poo Yes. And? Would you like to address something I actually said?
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Dec 4, 2015 23:25
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At current prices no one is coming back regardless of how ~*~uncertain~*~ the NDP are making the oil companies feel. if prices go back up they will start investing regardless of the impending royalty review, it's a load of horse poo poo meant to drum up opposition to what they see as a threat to their profit margins.
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Dec 4, 2015 23:28
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flashman posted:At current prices no one is coming back regardless of how ~*~uncertain~*~ the NDP are making the oil companies feel. if prices go back up they will start investing regardless of the impending royalty review, it's a load of horse poo poo meant to drum up opposition to what they see as a threat to their profit margins. I don't understand this. I'm not even saying that you mustn't raise royalty rates, or that you mustn't introduce regulations. I'm saying it's better, in fact, to just loving do those things, rather than saying you'll do them in the future. Get it over with, rip the band-aid off, and deal with the consequences as they come. By and large, the NDP government has been much more business-friendly than expected, so I think it behooves them to simply execute and stop with the uncertainty, even if it results in things that the oil industry doesn't want. Try not. Do; or do not. There is no try. gently caress the royalty review. Either increase royalties or don't. poo poo or get off the pot.
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Dec 4, 2015 23:38
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The NDP raised royalty rates without so much as a review? Who's to say they won't raise them again.. too much uncertainty with the Notley regime to invest in this land locked sub par product..
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Dec 4, 2015 23:40
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flashman posted:The NDP raised royalty rates without so much as a review? Who's to say they won't raise them again.. too much uncertainty with the Notley regime to invest in this land locked sub par product.. You've correctly identified why the history both our provincial and federal governments have of reneging on their promises has been a very bad thing! Maybe we should try to break that cycle, instead of giving into it further.
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Dec 4, 2015 23:44
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PT6A posted:I don't understand this. I'm not even saying that you mustn't raise royalty rates, or that you mustn't introduce regulations. I'm saying it's better, in fact, to just loving do those things, rather than saying you'll do them in the future. Get it over with, rip the band-aid off, and deal with the consequences as they come. By and large, the NDP government has been much more business-friendly than expected, so I think it behooves them to simply execute and stop with the uncertainty, even if it results in things that the oil industry doesn't want. I Find it funny that you are arguing for a snap decision when this poo poo is super complicated. It's the last thing you want to rush. NDP are a victim of the economy in this situation, you can't push through a large change like this without some lead time. Granted we are getting to the point where we should start hearing some progress reports but short of getting all stakeholders sequestered to hash this poo poo out its going to be another 6 months.
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Dec 5, 2015 00:08
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When industry wants time for a review they just want time to lobby legislators outside of the system.
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Dec 5, 2015 02:52
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lmao OPEC couldn't agree on a output cap, which means nations can set their own production due to the lack of a agreement (gently caress alberta) http://in.reuters.com/article/us-opec-meeting-usshale-stocks-idINKBN0TN1Z020151205 As some of the earlier post-mortem energy articles pointed out, OPEC ended up being a pretty failed concept due a lack of trust and coordination between all the member states. quote:Fears low oil prices will persist for years sent shares of U.S. crude producers tumbling on Friday after OPEC failed to agree on a unified output cap, effectively letting its 13 members pump at will under a policy aimed in part at squeezing out U.S. rivals.
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Dec 5, 2015 07:50
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etalian posted:lmao OPEC couldn't agree on a output cap, which means nations can set their own production due to the lack of a agreement Everyone join me in pouring one out for our homies. Killed by the ANDP royalty review. RIP in petroleum
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Dec 5, 2015 08:06
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OPEC failed as a cartel for the same reasons the EU is failing as a good political concept.
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Dec 5, 2015 09:09
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etalian posted:OPEC failed as a cartel for the same reasons the EU is failing as a good political concept. A belief that the long-term gains of cooperation would surpass the short-term gains of bickering and strong-arming?
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Dec 5, 2015 10:00
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Neither opec nor eu members have any incentive to adopt policy that significantly benefits the institution more than themselves, and especially not when those policies would be individually harmful.sbaldrick posted:America does not have a diversified economy, I'm sure FIRE would be their largest economic sector if it wasn't basically run on slave labour. They have a healthcare system that's more bankrupt then ours and a massively worse poverty problem. The only thing keeping them going is the fact they have 300 million plus people who buy crap.
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Dec 5, 2015 10:39
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