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Then I don't know if it's the B-team or something, but the only two games I bought from them were the Deadly Premonition PC port (which I don't think there is any single way to defend as anything other than a debacle... gently caress's sake, it requires some real arcane workarounds to avoid consistent crashes), and Drakengard 3, which, like I said, had horrid issues from console to console without any rhyme or reason, and it's not for lack of people trying to figure out the consistency.
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Dec 4, 2015 10:22
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END ME SCOOB posted:Then I don't know if it's the B-team or something, but the only two games I bought from them were the Deadly Premonition PC port (which I don't think there is any single way to defend as anything other than a debacle... gently caress's sake, it requires some real arcane workarounds to avoid consistent crashes), and Drakengard 3, which, like I said, had horrid issues from console to console without any rhyme or reason, and it's not for lack of people trying to figure out the consistency. Why does this have load times? Like, 30 second plus load times? You used to be able to "skip" the load times by tapping alt twice but they patched the ability to do that out, somehow.
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Dec 4, 2015 11:52
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It's only fitting that DP Director's Cut is even more broken than the original game, really.
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Dec 4, 2015 12:09
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Incidentally, I have checked the backlogs of Watch Out For Fireballs at least twice because I felt sure they had to have done an episode of Psychonauts at some point, because it seems like something that would have happened by the fifteenth episode at least.
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Dec 4, 2015 18:28
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Incidentally, I have checked the backlogs of Watch Out For Fireballs at least twice because I felt sure they had to have done an episode of Psychonauts at some point, because it seems like something that would have happened by the fifteenth episode at least. We purposely didn't because it's been really covered in gameclubs previously. I bet we do it at some point, but we need to space it out away from other sacred cows because, shhhh, Doublefine doesn't make very good games. That said, Doublefine would make wonderful comics. They just make games for some reason.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:38
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Woffle posted:We purposely didn't because it's been really covered in gameclubs previously. I bet we do it at some point, but we need to space it out away from other sacred cows because, shhhh, Doublefine doesn't make very good games. How can you be so right about some things but so wrong about Fallouts.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:45
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Anybody who's listened to WOFF pretty much already knows how exactly a psychonauts episode would go anyways. Stuff like the humor and settings would be praised. The collect-a-thon elements (I'm pretty sure they detest stuff like that) and gameplay in general would be criticized. There's probably over a hundred games that would be more worthwhile to make an episode for in terms of having a discussion that isn't just repeating the standard zeitgeist.
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Dec 5, 2015 04:05
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Rorie is great.
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Dec 5, 2015 04:12
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I think there's some merit to Yellow Submarine but to be fair the Beatles basically aren't in that one.
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Dec 5, 2015 04:29
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zapjackson posted:How can you be so right about some things but so wrong about Fallouts. I'm so god drat right about Fallouts and we will do that debate.
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Dec 5, 2015 05:07
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Opposing Farce posted:I think there's some merit to Yellow Submarine but to be fair the Beatles basically aren't in that one. I enjoyed Magical Mystery Tour when that aired in the US for the first time recently, but that's probably due to it being my favorite album rather than the film being good.
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Dec 5, 2015 05:46
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Woffle posted:I'm so god drat right about Fallouts and we will do that debate. The only possible opinion is "they're all bad, except new vegas". I guess you could debate which of the 4 NV DLCs is the least good (it's dead money)
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Dec 5, 2015 08:51
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KoldPT posted:The only possible opinion is "they're all bad, except new vegas". I guess you could debate which of the 4 NV DLCs is the least good (it's dead money) Fallout 1 and 2 are great and I don't want to hear no lip. For the record, I'm on team New Vegas so hard it hurts. Zack, my esteemed friend and colleague, thinks Fallout 3 is a better game, which made me feel like I had met a flat earth society member. But then a bunch of people backed him up. It was like The World's End or something. Woffle fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 09:58
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Woffle posted:Fallout 1 and 2 are great and I don't want to hear no lip. Yeah, hearing that on VGHD made me do a double take
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Dec 5, 2015 10:24
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I played a good few dozen hours of Fallout 3 and enjoyed it, but got bored of New Vegas right around the time I actually reached New Vegas. At the time I just attributed it to Fallout fatigue, but I also didn't really see whatever the improvements were that people were so happy about. It just felt like Fallout 3, again, this time with a worse world map. Is all the good stuff in New Vegas proper?
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Dec 5, 2015 10:28
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KoldPT posted:The only possible opinion is "they're all bad, except new vegas" 
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Dec 5, 2015 10:34
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The good stuff in New Vegas is the writing and quest design. Essentially every quest line is tied into every other quest line, and the ways you enter into the quest and eventually resolve them are very open. Plus, there's four meaningfully different ways to end the game, with substantially different missions once you get past the point of no return. On the other hand, the world is rather boring and the Wacky Wasteland perk is a particularly egregious example of Obsidian not understanding why people like Fallout. Fallout 3 is a game where you can pick a direction and start walking and you're guaranteed to find something interesting or fun; a weird quest line, a fun to explore dungeon (of the cave, skyscraper, subway tunnel or utility corridor variety), some kind of interesting still life, a boat load of different random encounters, a unique one-off event, giant robots and super heroes and mad scientists and ridiculous minuscule dictatorships and hidden Lord of the Flies cities and crazy Vaults and whatnot. New Vegas doesn't have any of the fun stuff or one-offs and no random encounters; it's just well-written intertwined quest chains featuring a bunch of opposing factions that are all hateful and loathsome in their own way. The best part of New Vegas is Old World Blues, and that's because it is the most like Fallout 3.
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Dec 5, 2015 10:48
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I made it 20 minutes into New Vegas before it crashed and corrupted my save, and never loaded it up again. Well that's my fallout story, hope you enjoyed
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Dec 5, 2015 10:52
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To clarify, New Vegas is a game where you make ambiguously lovely decisions in a reasonably realistic post-apocalyptic world and Fallout 3 is a game where you role-play a paragon of virtue or a comic-book super villain in a Americana theme park. I make enough ambiguously lovely decisions in real life, spending my leisure time making fake ambiguously lovely decisions between a bunch of fictional people that I despise isn't the greatest experience. edit: Oh, and I don't think New Vegas is a bad game (if you ignore the constant crashing and auto-save corruption), I think it is probably the greatest achievement in quest design in the history of video games. It just isn't fun. pseudorandom name fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 11:05
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Woffle posted:Fallout 1 and 2 are great and I don't want to hear no lip. Fallout Tactics is cool too.. I mean, it's not awful, certainly
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Dec 5, 2015 11:32
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HMS Boromir posted:I played a good few dozen hours of Fallout 3 and enjoyed it, but got bored of New Vegas right around the time I actually reached New Vegas. At the time I just attributed it to Fallout fatigue, but I also didn't really see whatever the improvements were that people were so happy about. It just felt like Fallout 3, again, this time with a worse world map. Is all the good stuff in New Vegas proper? If the idea on a world that you never have to fight with an extensive dialogue option isn't your thing, I can see how Vegas is boring as poo poo. Games that are praised for things like "The NPC's have stories that progress as you go through the game!" don't appeal me one bit. I actually recently played Vegas like a month ago. Game is pretty much uncrashable, so people that are afraid from goons playing the game like 10 years ago don't have to be worried on PC.
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Dec 5, 2015 11:35
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I feel like New Vegas guiding you on a specific route through the main story doesn't necessarily stop you from just saying gently caress it and going to the strip right off the bat, you'll just have to deal with deathclaws and poo poo right out of the gate. My biggest issues with Fallout 3 is that it's super easy to run out of poo poo to do in that game, and while I enjoyed it a lot initially, I more or less 100%ed it on my first playthrough. I've gone through New Vegas 3 times since it came out and every time I've found a major sidequest chain or different chunk of the main story (or entirely different way of doing the main story) There's tons of one-off poo poo in New Vegas, though, It's either decently out of the way, or part of a sidequest. There's cool poo poo if you dig through PEPCONN, join up with the Khans so you can chill with raiders or wander off to a random mining town. You just don't have to walk through 20 minutes of nothingness or 5 subway tunnels that look exactly the same to get there so it seems like it's all part of the main trail. It's infinitely better written, not just from a perspective of "Everyone is lovely" but because there's more than just Brotherhood/Enclave for factions to care about, so you can actually have smaller storylines within a town. To say that there wasn't one off stuff just shows that you really didn't explore because there's waaaay more one off stuff in New Vegas. That was like, one of the biggest talking points when it came out. The basic gameplay is infinitely better because you're not scaled to everything out of the gate so there are places you actually have to tread lightly in, and making skill checks is actually based on your skill and not just how bored you get reloading a save until a percentage chance goes your way. The enemy variety is way more varied, the weapon variety is useful and goes beyond straight upgrades (all of which you could get within an hour of leaving the vault in 3) so different playstyles are actually a thing beyond melee/ranged. Even just accounting for your actions was way better in New Vegas. Take dealing with Benny for example: You can ask around goodsprings and follow the quest around to the strip, then go to house and have him make his plan, or you can bust in to the Tops and blow his head off on the floor. Or sweet talk him into taking you up to his room and letting you in on his plan. poo poo, you can beat the game without even talking to him. The writing in Fallout 3's main story quests get weird if you stumble across your dad early, which is super easy to do. I easily put 250 hours into Fallout 3 and loved the hell out of it at the time, but trying to go back after playing New Vegas is loving impossible. Even when I had both installed and the steam cloud bug on launch was eating my saves every 8 hours I still couldn't go back to 3. 3 is a fine proof of concept but fuuuuuuuuck it does not hold up E: anyone praising the metro system in 3 needs to be committed because it is the single worst part about the game. The only discovery i had in 3 after my first run was because i got turned around in the tunnels and ended up in the rear end end of DC, and then spent like 3 hours trying to leave until I gave up and fast traveled away. A Real Happy Camper fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 11:37
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pseudorandom name posted:The good stuff in New Vegas is the writing and quest design. Essentially every quest line is tied into every other quest line, and the ways you enter into the quest and eventually resolve them are very open. Plus, there's four meaningfully different ways to end the game, with substantially different missions once you get past the point of no return. All of those things are in New Vegas as well, and arguably done better.
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Dec 5, 2015 11:49
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I guess I should start up New Vegas again and try to actively focus on playing it like an Obsidian RPG and not like Fallout 3 and see if that ingratiates it to me a little more.
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Dec 5, 2015 11:55
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all of the bethesda fallout games are bad: the writing is bad (new vegas is a little better, but i still wouldn't call it good), the setting is steampunk-level irritating nerdbait, the engine is a janky, ugly piece of poo poo. they succeed as games only on the strength of the core gameplay, which IMO is more like 20 or 30 hours worth of fun instead of the 500 hours lots of people seem to think it is
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Dec 5, 2015 11:59
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If I have one big complaint with New Vegas, it's that it takes a while to really get rolling. Since you know the general route to Vegas it might be best to just zip through Primm and stuff since not only does the meat of the game start on the strip, it's also where you really start seeing weapon and quest variety. The stuff before you get there is pretty generic stuff.
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Dec 5, 2015 12:00
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I put something like 300 hours into Fallout 3 and somewhere around 200 into New Vegas, I'm very familiar with what there is to do in both of them. Nearly everything to do in New Vegas is somehow in service to the main quest line and involves bending some minor faction to you will, there aren't any sweet old ladies in need of a replacement violin or an abandoned orbital bombardment control tower that lets you nuke Michigan or a series of audio diaries featuring a family trying to come up with their own ad hoc Vault and then slowly succumbing to ghoulishness or a secret talking tree or a Vault full of Garys or budding tour guidebook authors or the abandoned camp site of a misguided scientist trying to tame ghouls or a camp full of named NPC raiders or mercenaries or a mad woman living in a shack or a bottling plant full of unique mirelurks or the covert headquarters of Chinese spy ghouls or crashed UFOs or Lovecraftian horrors or pilgrims and Mexican standoffs or any of the hundreds of big and little things to find and explore and surprise you.
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Dec 5, 2015 12:02
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pseudorandom name posted:I put something like 300 hours into Fallout 3 and somewhere around 200 into New Vegas, I'm very familiar with what there is to do in both of them. Nearly everything to do in New Vegas is somehow in service to the main quest line and involves bending some minor faction to you will, there aren't any sweet old ladies in need of a replacement violin or an abandoned orbital bombardment control tower that lets you nuke Michigan or a series of audio diaries featuring a family trying to come up with their own ad hoc Vault and then slowly succumbing to ghoulishness or a secret talking tree or a Vault full of Garys or budding tour guidebook authors or the abandoned camp site of a misguided scientist trying to tame ghouls or a camp full of named NPC raiders or mercenaries or a mad woman living in a shack or a bottling plant full of unique mirelurks or the covert headquarters of Chinese spy ghouls or crashed UFOs or Lovecraftian horrors or pilgrims and Mexican standoffs or any of the hundreds of big and little things to find and explore and surprise you. all of that stuff sounds cool in theory but then you find out it's implemented in the least possible effort way, and usually boils down to you killing a few enemies pre-placed in a funny way with an audiotape next to them basically this article https://www.somethingawful.com/news/fallout-storytelling-skeleton/ quote:Then I stumbled into environmental storytelling. I knew it was environmental storytelling because there was a skeleton next to a thing. icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 12:10
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pseudorandom name posted:I put something like 300 hours into Fallout 3 and somewhere around 200 into New Vegas, I'm very familiar with what there is to do in both of them. Nearly everything to do in New Vegas is somehow in service to the main quest line and involves bending some minor faction to you will, there aren't any sweet old ladies in need of a replacement violin or an abandoned orbital bombardment control tower that lets you nuke Michigan or a series of audio diaries featuring a family trying to come up with their own ad hoc Vault and then slowly succumbing to ghoulishness or a secret talking tree or a Vault full of Garys or budding tour guidebook authors or the abandoned camp site of a misguided scientist trying to tame ghouls or a camp full of named NPC raiders or mercenaries or a mad woman living in a shack or a bottling plant full of unique mirelurks or the covert headquarters of Chinese spy ghouls or crashed UFOs or Lovecraftian horrors or pilgrims and Mexican standoffs or any of the hundreds of big and little things to find and explore and surprise you. So the vault that's just the same dude over and over is the pinnacle of enterntainment, ok E: So I just looked at the wiki to make sure it was as I remembered: just a full vault with like 3 audiologs and 30 copies of the same dude. It sure is! Almost all the things I remember from that list are the same too (An almost empty location with 2 logs and some enemies), the only interesting thing is the tree dude. Aviron fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 12:28
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Fallout is the Destiny of Bethesda FPS-RPGs
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Dec 5, 2015 12:32
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Man goons just love this debate.
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Dec 5, 2015 14:42
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HMS Boromir posted:I guess I should start up New Vegas again and try to actively focus on playing it like an Obsidian RPG and not like Fallout 3 and see if that ingratiates it to me a little more. This is the big thing. Fallout 3 is a Bethesda RPG which means right out of the gate you're encouraged to pick a direction and wander around. New Vegas is structured like the original Fallout games. Technically you can go off anywhere on the map but you're encouraged to follow the storyline then branch off as options become available. Bethesda games are spiderwebs, Obsidian games are trees. I can understand getting frustrated expecting that same level of gently caress-offery then getting disappointed when Deathclaws lurk five feet off the main road but Bethesda's design philosophy precludes telling a tight narrative. I lose the sense of discovery in exchange for an area that feels lived in. And that's what's important about Fallout to me. It's hundreds of years after the bomb, the games are about society rebuilt. The world is supposed to be established but Fallout 3 it's like "We've lived in this town our whole lives and don't know what's outside its walls!"
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Dec 5, 2015 14:48
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Fallout 3 is one of the better Bethesda games, I'd probably put it just behind Skyrim (which is a ways behind Morrowind, but what isn't), but it is pretty poor compared to the rest of the Fallout games, only saved from the bottom of the pile by the truly terrible Brotherhood of Steel and Fallout 4. Fallout 3's Main Quest is garbage in every respect. The story is nonsensical, the characters range from unlikeable to palid blank slates of nothingness, and the tasks themselves (with the exception of Tranquility Lane) are largely rote and unmemorable. Away from the Main Quest there are some entertaining attractions, some fairly inventive and unique sections of the world which have no cohesiveness as a whole, stuffed with enough in-your-face wackiness to placate the lol-random section of the population. Fallout: New Vegas is to Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines as Fallout 3 is to Postal 2.
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Dec 5, 2015 15:42
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Man goons just love this debate. I blame the Johnny Five Aces skeleton
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Dec 5, 2015 16:00
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fatherboxx posted:I blame the Johnny Five Aces skeleton Goons are groggy and neckbeardy as poo poo about this and I'm not coming within five miles of this thread when the Fallout 3 WOFF happens.
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Dec 5, 2015 16:15
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New Vegas is basically just a mod for Fallout 3 made by a B team. Lacking the Howard touch that made the series an instant classic it relies on artificial difficulty and an over abundance of human enemies to pad its length. Significant amounts of content that was promised was cut before release. The most egregious evidence of their incompetence is the infamous physics defying Securitron vault elevator.
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Dec 5, 2015 16:23
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VocalizePlayerDeath posted:New Vegas is basically just a mod for Fallout 3 made by a B team. Lacking the Howard touch that made the series an instant classic it relies on artificial difficulty and an over abundance of human enemies to pad its length. Significant amounts of content that was promised was cut before release. The most egregious evidence of their incompetence is the infamous physics defying Securitron vault elevator. This is my favorite post in the whole wide world.
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Dec 5, 2015 16:28
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Fallout 1 and 2 own.
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Dec 5, 2015 16:41
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DrKennethNoisewater posted:Fallout 1 and 2 own. I'm going to link to the Cracked article where the dude says he marathoned the Fallout games, then it turns out he skipped 1 and 2. Not because I disagree, I just think it's hilarious.
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Dec 5, 2015 16:51
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Song For The Deaf posted:This is my favorite post in the whole wide world. this is mine Reddit posted:
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Dec 5, 2015 17:30
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