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I'm coming back to crawl after a loooong time not playing it. I last ascended in .8. I'm looking for some advice. I'm sitting at XL17 as a Minotaur Berserker. I've cleared out Orc and Lair, have gone to about DL20. I'm working on Snake, the world also has Shoals. I've got some solid mutations as well as a pretty bad one (not the screaming, that doesn't matter for this guy): horns 3, blink, clever 1, fire resistance 2, screaming 1, shaggy fur 1, electricity resistance, spit poison 1, teleportitis 1. Current inventory: quote:Hand Weapons My plan is to take this guy to the endgame, so I'll be looking to dump Trog at some point probably. The skills I've got right now: Fighting 18 Long Blades 20 (includes the +4 from the gloves... I trained to 16 to get the min delay on a double sword and then switched away) Armor 17 Dodging 13 Shields 15 I've tried to min/max the skills a bit for a melee heavy sword and board guy, but I'm not sure where I should start dumping my skill points. I'm also not sure what god I should flip to. It looks like there are some new options. So my questions are: 1) What are fun / good gods to do endgame with post-Trog? Skill distro is 29/6/24 so magic is out of the question probably. Minotaurs have decent invocation aptitude, so I was thinking maybe that Storm god. 2) What should I focus my skills on next? Where are the diminishing returns most prominent & what are the key levels where I get the most benefit from a skill (like min delay or removal of shield penalties). 3) What weapon is better? That Demon Blade looks pretty absurd, but if I managed to enchant the hell out of the double sword and get a better brand on it (is that possible?), would it eventually surpass the DB? 4) What's Trog's wrath like these days? I gather that you can't just sit in a tunnel with a stack of food and wait it out like I used to do.
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Dec 4, 2015 00:47
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megane posted:Oh, there is one Snake change I forgot: there's a new Snake end vault (which I had the misfortune to get on that felid, and imagine you probably got too) which has seven fricking guardian serpents in it. Horrifying.  This one? 
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Dec 4, 2015 01:00
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the Orb of Zot posted:Yeah, if you aren't a DD you'll want to quick charge other things more often since you aren't going to be reliant on the heal wounds HP to recover from damage taken. Is this really a matter of Pakellas itself being overpowered? Or is it just that Deep Dwarves were overpowered to begin with? Can Of Worms posted:
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Dec 4, 2015 01:13
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Can Of Worms posted:
Greater nagas don't look right without their crazy hair. Do naga warriors have a new sprite? They always looked really lame for how dangerous they can potentially be.
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Dec 4, 2015 01:18
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Jordan7hm posted:So my questions are: Skilling is fine. Consider wearing stasis on Zot 5 with that teleportitis mutation... cuz that will kill you dead. Playing endgame with Trog is perfectly fine, even extended is playable with Trog, though you need to have a really good way to handle line of sight and threats like Torment / Hellfire from range. I highly recommend -not- abandoning Trog. Unless suddenly having a bunch of berserk stone giants, deep trolls and Iron trolls show up for an impromptu pow-wow sounds is no sweat to you, you should stay loyal. Freezing is the ideal brand you can get normally for most of Zot, ancient Liches / curse toes being the exception. (Holy Wrath is good but situational, Antimagic is debatable, Speed is amazing but artefact only, none of them can be applied by brand weapon) That demon blade is beautiful and demon blades are actually faster than double swords and not much weaker. You're totally fine keeping with it. Shield of Resistance, Fencer's Gloves are ideal, your kit is fantastic. Grab Fire Dragon Armour probably and you'll be golden, boots of running and a ring to replace scavenger would be ideal bonuses. Shield of Resistance is a medium shield and is free from penalty at 15 for Minotaurs. Other than that, basically keep pumping more fightmans and defenses, you're at minimum requirements for everything current. Beyond that, skilling is your decision. A ranged attack is probably the next thing if you feel like you're already more swole than you need. Throwing works best with shields, so javelins probably. That or some evocations and grab Lamp of Fire / Phial of Floods / Fan of Gales. Triple Crossbows are disgustingly strong, but its a huge skill investment and you can't wear your shield with it, and shields take too long to use in combat, so you'd either be forced to use no shield when in switching from crossbow to the demon blade or get a triple sword running as well. If you really want to go extended though, I can't think of much more terrifying to Pandemonium Lords than a Minotaur with an antimagic triple sword and a Holy Wrath triple crossbow (with penetration bolts even).
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Dec 4, 2015 02:49
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Meet Doom Hounds, a Tartarus enemy that howls to create more doom hounds just outside of LoS. Hope you can make the MR check, or you'll be buried in infinite dogs!
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Dec 4, 2015 14:54
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Should have called them Night Mares instead. (yeah yeah, we don't have a line of horse creatures beyond the 'taurs so it wouldn't be cohesive with the tileset...but the pun) Are you revamping the Hells with more uniqueness, PleasingFungus?
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Dec 4, 2015 15:00
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ZeeToo posted:Meet Doom Hounds, a Tartarus enemy that howls to create more doom hounds just outside of LoS. Hope you can make the MR check, or you'll be buried in infinite dogs! Nooooooo, not spirit wolves again 
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Dec 4, 2015 15:11
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FR: Smaller doom hounds that have a silence aura around them called Hush Puppies
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Dec 4, 2015 15:16
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Dee Ehm posted:Skilling is fine. Consider wearing stasis on Zot 5 with that teleportitis mutation... cuz that will kill you dead. Playing endgame with Trog is perfectly fine, even extended is playable with Trog, though you need to have a really good way to handle line of sight and threats like Torment / Hellfire from range. I highly recommend -not- abandoning Trog. Unless suddenly having a bunch of berserk stone giants, deep trolls and Iron trolls show up for an impromptu pow-wow sounds is no sweat to you, you should stay loyal. Thanks for the advice! Gonna skip the crossbow just because of the heavy shield investment / the cbow investment that would be required to hit min delay on a triple crossbow. Alright so I've played some more, and I think I'm definitely set. I've played some monstrously good melee in the past, but this guy is something else. I tabbed through Elf 4, Vaults 5, and basically all of the depths. I've got a +12 GDA and am sitting on 61AC, 27EV and 22SH. I'm lacking in RN (though I have an amulet with rn++ and -tele that I can switch to if need be) and the only thing that really hurts me now is torment. Looks like I can't solve that with a god choice though. Just switched to Qazlal. Byebye Trog. Bring on the monsters.
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Dec 4, 2015 16:13
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I really want to get heavy shield Qaz user off the ground. It just looks like so much fun.
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Dec 4, 2015 16:24
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Fhqwhgads posted:I really want to get heavy shield Qaz user off the ground. It just looks like so much fun. It's hilarious. I'm gonna try to get a Centaur of Qazlal rolling for cloud kiting and javelin spam; that sounds downright unfair against some enemies. e: I might even use a demon trident for maximum "don't touch me" tactical dickery
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Dec 4, 2015 16:34
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qazlal is really fun, pakellas is also extremely fun to play
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Dec 4, 2015 16:37
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Trog's wrath is funny at this point. Poor Trog. He gave me the tools to succeed and now he gets to watch as I dismantle his minions.
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Dec 4, 2015 16:38
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DDFi of Palkallas is unfair until you get the wands cost MP mutation, at which point you die
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Dec 4, 2015 17:08
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Pakellas owns, glad he made it in finally. Now that he doesn't forbid magic anymore, i suppose he would be very interesting for all sorts of hybrids too. Nuke some badguys, kill some chaff to get magic back, repeat?
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Dec 4, 2015 17:09
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Humans Among Us posted:Pakellas owns, glad he made it in finally. Now that he doesn't forbid magic anymore, i suppose he would be very interesting for all sorts of hybrids too. Nuke some badguys, kill some chaff to get magic back, repeat? He gives less MP than Vehumet and his abilities that cost MP scale with how much you have, so I can't imagine you'd have a ton of spells available if you use Quick Charge a lot except in/immediately after very large fights. Out of sheer interest, what happens if a VS worships Pakellas, does anyone know? Do they get their antimagic bite but no MP from it? Spirit Shield sounds particularly dangerous under Pak.
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Dec 4, 2015 17:22
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Humans Among Us posted:Pakellas owns, glad he made it in finally. Now that he doesn't forbid magic anymore, i suppose he would be very interesting for all sorts of hybrids too. Nuke some badguys, kill some chaff to get magic back, repeat? I don't think there's a huge reason to cast attack spells when Pakellas is going to gift you a bunch of powerful rods. I've been steamrolling the regular game content with just clouds, iron, and ignition plus some basic utility spells. Device surge is pretty strong, although I guess we'll see how well it holds up in extended... Also, the Abyss really blows without access to rMut.
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Dec 4, 2015 18:44
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I made a quarterstaff TeGl with the intention of going Pakellas and either switching to polearms or using an evo staff in conjunction with evocables. Naturally I found the Staff of Wucad Mu. So I inscribed it with !v and now I'm going around beating everything to death with it
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Dec 4, 2015 18:51
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Floodkiller posted:Nooooooo, not spirit wolves again Speaking of infuriating monsters... we have caustic and ice shrikes, but no time/space variety? Because a blinking turbo-death-chainsaw with torpor effect would make for some Terrible idea? You're welcome.
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Dec 4, 2015 20:01
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silentsnack posted:Speaking of infuriating monsters... we have caustic and ice shrikes, but no time/space variety? Because a blinking turbo-death-chainsaw with torpor effect would make for some It also saps your hunger by turbocharging your metabolism. hth.
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Dec 4, 2015 20:48
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silentsnack posted:Speaking of infuriating monsters... we have caustic and ice shrikes, but no time/space variety? Because a blinking turbo-death-chainsaw with torpor effect would make for some So basically a Torpor Executioner? That would be horrendously bullshit to encounter randomly, but if you wanted to make Pan less tedious and more loving terrifying, you could replace the demonic rune with a fifth fixed rune found in the realm of Unpronounceable Jumble the Pandemonium Lord, who has no offensive magic at all but flies, is fast, casts haste, causes torpor, and is basically just a screaming unholy melee superbastard and a good reason to blow that giant pile of consumables you've been hoarding. Then just make the fixed levels a lot more likely to show up so that going to Pan almost never requires doing more than maybe ten "floors" of it before you have all the runes (or are hideously murdered by one of its lords).
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Dec 4, 2015 20:58
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Did the IRC chat die or something?
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Dec 4, 2015 21:29
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Stoat posted:FR: Smaller doom hounds that have a silence aura around them called Hush Puppies
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Dec 4, 2015 22:23
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Made a DDFi and went, I'll go Axes! Then realized that I should have gone maces for the +7 rod I got from god. 
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Dec 4, 2015 22:26
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How to make Pan suck less; get rid of the randomness in floors showing up. Instead, every 3 pan lords you kill causes the next floor you enter to be a rune one. That way you have a reason to clear pan levels rather than just dive through the nearest exit over and over again. Or something like that. Also get rid of all those dumb chaff monsters seriously why is Cerebov's realm full of Ynoxinuls???
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Dec 4, 2015 23:28
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Internet Kraken posted:How to make Pan suck less; get rid of the randomness in floors showing up. Instead, every 3 pan lords you kill causes the next floor you enter to be a rune one. That way you have a reason to clear pan levels rather than just dive through the nearest exit over and over again. Or something like that. ufetubus are terrifying and a major threat
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Dec 4, 2015 23:41
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FR: Ufetubi tiles should be replaced by some kind of cute demonic puppy tile
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Dec 5, 2015 00:19
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Shinino Kage posted:Made a DDFi and went, I'll go Axes! Then realized that I should have gone maces for the +7 rod I got from god. Why the hell would you use a rod to hit enemies with? apple posted:FR: Ufetubi tiles should be replaced by some kind of cute demonic puppy tile The existing "fat demon pigeon with no wings" look is already good.
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Dec 5, 2015 00:22
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ZeeToo posted:Why the hell would you use a rod to hit enemies with? I didn't. I did have to pass up a +13 sword artefact in the Bailey because I'm using axes tho. :P
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Dec 5, 2015 01:18
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ZeeToo posted:The existing "fat demon pigeon with no wings" look is already good. Ok, HD remaster of fat demon pigeon with no wings
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Dec 5, 2015 02:42
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FR: Replace all demons with dogs, implement Petting god.
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Dec 5, 2015 02:53
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ZeeToo posted:Meet Doom Hounds, a Tartarus enemy that howls to create more doom hounds just outside of LoS. Hope you can make the MR check, or you'll be buried in infinite dogs! There's no MR check. Embrace infinity dog. Sage Grimm posted:Are you revamping the Hells with more uniqueness, PleasingFungus? It's a long-term goal. Tartarus is usually called out as the most boring/easy hell, and I've always felt that spirit wolves were a fundamentally good idea with all of the wrong numbers*, so it seemed like a reasonable combination of birds and stone. *Their stats were far too low to be real threats at their depth, but their howl encouraged you to sit in one place until it ran out, and it lasted for 45-80 turns each time it was applied. The core idea of doom hounds is to have a dramatically lower howl duration and a much more reasonable threat level for their location. There are other differences too, of course.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:30
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Adding unique monsters is good but unfortunately the core problems for Hell and Pan lie in the layout of the maps. Too much poo poo you have to wade through before you get to the parts that are actually interesting and threatening.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:33
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On a related note, I would like to apologize to the player whose D:14 is currently filled with shapeshifting doom hounds. That should be less likely in future.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:37
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Can you drag them out to the vestibule and kill them for xp or any shenanigans like that?
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Dec 5, 2015 03:50
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PleasingFungus posted:There's no MR check. Embrace infinity dog. I am bad at reading Crawlcode. 
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Dec 5, 2015 04:32
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apple posted:Ok, HD remaster of fat demon pigeon with no wings done
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Dec 5, 2015 04:45
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The Rod gift from Pakelass is still 4*, right? I hit 5* and yet to recieve one. I have used the ctrl-f function to look for a rod but it doesn't see one. Current dump from trunk on cBro. I've got to stop bringing my bugs here and start using the mantis tracking thing.
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Dec 5, 2015 04:49
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World Famous Whore posted:The Rod gift from Pakelass is still 4*, right? I hit 5* and yet to recieve one. I have used the ctrl-f function to look for a rod but it doesn't see one. Current dump from trunk on cBro. Fixed already.
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Dec 5, 2015 05:04
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