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Snowglobe of Doom posted:He must have had so much insurance and OH&S paperwork to fill out after all those employee deaths in the workplace, it's no wonder he's miffed. Those forms probably didn't have a checkbox for 'alien invasion'. Bruce Wayne's insurance claim is denied, listing "Act of God(s)" as the reason. He pulls on his cowl and thinks to himself, "we'll see about that."
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Dec 5, 2015 18:36
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Sir Kodiak posted:Bruce Wayne's insurance claim is denied, listing "Act of God(s)" as the reason. He pulls on his cowl and thinks to himself, "we'll see about that." "Your insurance doesn't cover acts of god. He must be a god, he crashed through all those buildings and didn't shed a drop of blood." "Stay right there, I'm gonna go check something ..." /dons Bat-armor
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Dec 5, 2015 18:40
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"Jake from State Farm was found tied up and branded with bat symbols this morning" - Vicki Vale
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Dec 5, 2015 19:28
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Never lie to Batman about what type of pants you're wearing.
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Dec 5, 2015 20:03
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Xeremides posted:If he didn't experience empathy, or had a reduced ability to experience empathy, I don't think he'd be Batman. This is a guy who feels emotion so strongly that a single event has defined his entire life. He isn't trying to stop his parents from being murdered. He's trying to stop it from ever happening to someone else. This is a man who goes out of his way night after night to protect and save people, both directly and indirectly, quote:and he did it because he elected to not trust law enforcement to do it. quote:If someone can misconstrue that to mean Batman is being entirely selfish in his one-man war against crime, I think that says more about that person than a make believe character. quote:He's absolutely a crazy person, but his insanity has less to do with his inability, or a retarded ability, to empathize with others and more to do with his obsession and singular focus on the concept of justice. quote:Batman is crazy, and has a constant fear that his crazy will make him something like The Joker, and tries his best to maintain that line, while believe he can redeem people that have crossed it. The Joker is the opposite, on the other side of that line ,basically. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 20:21
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God, everything you've said is like a first year english/philosophy student trying to BS their way through their first midterm report.Snowman_McK posted:What do you think it says about someone that they mistrust a crazy person who dresses as a bat and uses ninja skills and a massive high tech arsenal with no oversight? The only difference between modern day law enforcement like the CIA and NSA and FBI is that they don't wear bat-outfits, and Batman's track record of hurting innocent people is much lower. They both have effectively no oversight, and at least the public doesn't pay Batman's salary. To the comic, Gotham is an extremely violent and corrupt place. Batman exists there because the government has violated its contract with the people it professes to serve. Batman as Bruce runs several charities and many other programs dedicated to help the lower-income elements, and to also restore the city. He's a tragic hero, not an anti-one. It's like you guys are thinking Batman and Punisher are the same character in different outfits. Drifter fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 20:37
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Drifter posted:God, everything you've said is like a first year english/philosophy student trying to BS their way through their first midterm report. quote:THE MIDDLE EAST is an extremely violent and corrupt place. THE CIA/NSA exist there because the government has violated its contract with the people it professes to serve/CEASED TO EXIST. THE CIA/NSA DONATES AID and many other programs dedicated to help the lower-income elements, and to also restore the UNSTABLE COUNTRY. quote:He's a tragic hero, not an anti-one. It's like you guys are thinking Batman and Punisher are the same character in different outfits. His no-kill rule is a leash he put on himself to keep justifying it to himself. The Punisher is honest about what he is. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 20:49
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Yes, everyone knows how the CIA&NSA are simply native to the Middle East. Growing up there and reacting to the ills of the area from the perspective of a native son, not an outsider.
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Dec 5, 2015 21:08
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Gyges posted:Yes, everyone knows how the CIA&NSA are simply native to the Middle East. Growing up there and reacting to the ills of the area from the perspective of a native son, not an outsider. Considering Wayne is a billionaire, living in a massive mansion barely in the city limits, or in a penthouse hundreds of metres above it, and the criminals of Gotham are primarily poor, this isn't the slam dunk you think it is. If you need a 1:1 analogue, because inference is hard, look at the terrible, lovely justifications for heavy handed policing in the US. Or the fact that those agencies operate, frequently illegally, against US citizens. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 21:12
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Drifter posted:The only difference between modern day law enforcement like the CIA and NSA and FBI is that they don't wear bat-outfits, and Batman's track record of hurting innocent people is much lower. They both have effectively no oversight, and at least the public doesn't pay Batman's salary. The FBI is a proper law enforcement agency, but they are at least constrained by the laws. If the FBI wasn't, it could have busted the Mafia and the Communists instantly. J Edgar Hoover would have only had to tell his agents to arrest them all just because he felt like it. Batman doesn't have to worry about things like warrants or standards of evidence when he wants to gently caress someone up. He fucks up whoever he feels like. Kurzon fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 21:13
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Snowman_McK posted:This is a very charitable view of why he's Batman. 1) You didn't fix poo poo. You're forgetting how corrupt the police department was when Batman first hit the scene. You're forgetting how much power the various mafia families had in the city prior to him donning the costume. A big part of Gotham's story is regarding cops being on the take, cops being untrustworthy, cops being unwilling to make the necessary moves because they want to go home to their families at night rather than end up at the bottom of the river. Then you have dirty politicians, dirty judges, the justice system being broken, etc. All huge incentives for Batman to say, "Alright, gently caress you guys. I'll do it." And then what happens? He does his vigilante thing, befriends Gordon, who then goes on to clean up the GCPD, and suddenly Batman and law enforcement are on the same side most of the time. Amazing. 2) You're not mistrusting "someone". You're mistrusting the motivations of a comic book character, who's motivations have been firmly established for over half a century. If you can't believe that Batman isn't a sociopath who feels nothing for people, that says to me that you're either an idiot, or projecting your sociopathic tendencies onto a comic book character. 3) Holy poo poo, no. He can chew bubblegum and walk at the same time. He's the goddamn Batman. He can be utterly consumed with administering justice, and still manage to care about the people of Gotham, or in the case of BvS, his employees in Metropolis. If anything, his obsession with justice only heightens his ability to empathize with the people of his city. 4) The Joker isn't Batman. The Joker is what Batman could become if Batman didn't have his crazy self-imposed rules. That's the entire point. The Joker wants Batman to break his own rules, to commit murder, and to give in to his psychosis. If they were the same, there'd be no conflict. And no, this isn't the goddamn Matrix. There is no equation balancing itself out. Xeremides fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 21:39
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Are we talking about The Dark Knight Returns, BvS, or Batman stories in general?
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Dec 5, 2015 22:06
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Snowman_McK posted:Considering Wayne is a billionaire, living in a massive mansion barely in the city limits, or in a penthouse hundreds of metres above it, and the criminals of Gotham are primarily poor, this isn't the slam dunk you think it is. Wayne is indeed a richass fucker from the isolated enclaves of power. That's still oceans apart from the CIA, NSA, or any Western, let alone American, intelligence agency operating in the Middle East. If you want to make a lovely comparison between Batman and the Intelligence apparatus go for something like the CIA in Canada or perhaps Mexico. Sorry that your usage of a foreign invasion of autonomy was a lovely rejoinder to Batman and Gotham, but that's really not others missing your wondrous point through lack of inference. Especially since Batman isn't an active agent of destroying Gotham for personal, short sighted gain, because he loves that sweet loving oil. Gyges fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 22:15
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Snowman_McK posted:The joker is Batman. He's his opposite. Just as random chance selected Bruce and made him Batman, random chance selected a nobody and made him the Joker. Batman directly created him, but also created him by existing. He's the result of an equation balancing itself. I would argue that what you're saying is really the Joker's point of view on the situation.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:18
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Kurzon posted:Are we talking about The Dark Knight Returns, BvS, or Batman stories in general?
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Dec 5, 2015 22:24
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Holy Christ, this discussion is dumb. Is this normal for CineD?
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Dec 5, 2015 22:48
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Kurzon posted:Holy Christ, this discussion is dumb. Is this normal for CineD? It's normal for Batman.
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Dec 5, 2015 23:27
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Kurzon posted:Holy Christ, this discussion is dumb. Is this normal for CineD? U could try reading a thread that isn't the Beavis thread
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Dec 5, 2015 23:46
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Kurzon posted:Holy Christ, this discussion is dumb. Is this normal for CineD? Lurk more.
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Dec 6, 2015 00:10
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Martman posted:I disagree. Random chance got Batman's parents killed, but beyond that (and being lucky to be super wealthy) I think the real fantasy of Batman is that he chooses to make himself into Batman. Lots of people have terrible things happen to them but Bruce Wayne decides to turn that experience into something good. The drive to become Batman, to master himself physically and pour resources into the task, comes directly from the death his parents. Otherwise, he would have been decent, probably altruistic man. The random murder directly leads to him becoming Batman. It's important that it's a random murder. It's also important that, prior to the accident, the joker is a nobody. He's not a super-soldier or a genius scientist. He's just some dude. Then he falls into acid and is turned into something terrible. Gyges posted:Wayne is indeed a richass fucker from the isolated enclaves of power. That's still oceans apart from the CIA, NSA, or any Western, let alone American, intelligence agency operating in the Middle East. If you want to make a lovely comparison between Batman and the Intelligence apparatus go for something like the CIA in Canada or perhaps Mexico. I didn't bring those agencies up. I used them because someone else did, as if their actual existence as terrible, oversight free entities somehow made Batman's existence as a terrible, oversight free entity beyond reproach. Xeremides posted:1) You didn't fix poo poo. You're forgetting how corrupt the police department was when Batman first hit the scene. You're forgetting how much power the various mafia families had in the city prior to him donning the costume. A big part of Gotham's story is regarding cops being on the take, cops being untrustworthy, cops being unwilling to make the necessary moves because they want to go home to their families at night rather than end up at the bottom of the river. Then you have dirty politicians, dirty judges, the justice system being broken, etc. All huge incentives for Batman to say, "Alright, gently caress you guys. I'll do it." And then what happens? He does his vigilante thing, befriends Gordon, who then goes on to clean up the GCPD, and suddenly Batman and law enforcement are on the same side most of the time. Amazing. quote:2) You're not mistrusting "someone". You're mistrusting the motivations of a comic book character, who's motivations have been firmly established for over half a century. If you can't believe that Batman isn't a sociopath who feels nothing for people, that says to me that you're either an idiot, or projecting your sociopathic tendencies onto a comic book character. quote:4) The Joker isn't Batman. The Joker is what Batman could become if Batman didn't have his crazy self-imposed rules. That's the entire point. The Joker wants Batman to break his own rules, to commit murder, and to give in to his psychosis. If they were the same, there'd be no conflict. And no, this isn't the goddamn Matrix. There is no equation balancing itself out. Even the guy who loving loves Batman and, more recently facism, Frank Miller, positions the Joker as an existential response. He has that theory put forward in story by a character who is a big dumb liberal idiot(tm), but the text of the story has the Joker go dormant once Batman retires, and has him awaken the very day Batman comes back. They justify each other and, while they hate each other, they also understand each other's drive. The Joker calls Batman his playmate, and means it. He's at least honest about their relationship. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Dec 6, 2015 |
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Dec 6, 2015 00:27
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Why does Batman have to be insane and not Green Arrow or Batgirl or Mr Terrific or Hawkeye?
Kurzon fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Dec 6, 2015 |
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Dec 6, 2015 00:39
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Kurzon posted:Why does Batman have to be insane and not Green Arrow or Batgirl or Mr Terrific or Hawkeye? Because he's the god drat Batman.
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Dec 6, 2015 00:46
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broken clock opsec posted:It's normal for Batman. And Superman, especially Man of Steel. This loving movie is, what, three or four months away? And already this thread is insane.
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Dec 6, 2015 03:00
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Kurzon posted:Why does Batman have to be insane and not Green Arrow or Batgirl or Mr Terrific or Hawkeye? Because in the case of most of those characters they are shown as being capable of having a normal life and not being utterly consumed by their role. (This may not apply to Arrow Green Arrow, I don't watch it.) Hawkeye is an exception in that he is kind of a human garbage fire a lot of the time
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Dec 6, 2015 03:09
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ImpAtom posted:Because in the case of most of those characters they are shown as being capable of having a normal life and not being utterly consumed by their role. (This may not apply to Arrow Green Arrow, I don't watch it.) Not if Dan Didio has anything to say about it, at least on DC's side of things. If you have Bat in your name, you have to be carbon copies of Batman. Period.
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Dec 6, 2015 03:55
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EDIT - Wrong thread. I'm hoping that they go whole hog with parademons and boom tubes and all the crazy Darkseid stuff in these movies.
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Dec 6, 2015 05:02
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Drifter posted:The only difference between modern day law enforcement like the CIA and NSA and FBI is that they don't wear bat-outfits, and Batman's track record of hurting innocent people is much lower. They both have effectively no oversight, and at least the public doesn't pay Batman's salary. Batman's "salary" is paid by the invisible hand of the free market via Wayne Enterprises. The justice he hands out to street punks is similarly unregulated and based on the supply and demand created by criminal activities in the local market after Batman chose to bypass the government's barriers to market entry on the justice exchange and brought the justice enterprise back into private ownership. This may have incentived certain supervillains to maximize productivity of injustice to meet the new demands but Batman almost always manages to return the market to equilibrium via aggressive headpunch trading. Superman represents a threat to the justice industry oligopoly in that he could gain a monopoly via unfair market advantages. Batman has no choice but to respond aggressively. Edit: I'm clearly talking bullshit but someone who knows what they're talking about could probably give a genuine Keynesian review of Batman v Superman.
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Dec 6, 2015 06:11
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DCAU Batman built the Justice League Watchtower (a loving space station) in secret using change he found in the R&D division's couch.
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Dec 6, 2015 06:29
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"If the sick were too dumb to buy health insurance even after I rƎVO˩utionized digital currency with BatCoin they may as well die in the streets." ~The World's Greatest Detective™
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Dec 6, 2015 07:14
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Drifter posted:The only difference between modern day law enforcement like the CIA and NSA and FBI is that they don't wear bat-outfits, and Batman's track record of hurting innocent people is much lower. They both have effectively no oversight, and at least the public doesn't pay Batman's salary. Detective No. 27 posted:DCAU Batman built the Justice League Watchtower (a loving space station) in secret using change he found in the R&D division's couch.
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Dec 6, 2015 08:03
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Kurzon posted:Why does Batman have to be insane and not Green Arrow or Batgirl or Mr Terrific or Hawkeye? Because there is an inciting incident for his tragedy, and because he's rich. Hawkeye and Batgirl are not rich, and Mr Terrific and GA had different reasons for becoming superheroes. The best comparison to him is probably Iron Man, but the main differences between the two are personality and the reason they became a superhero. Batman's reason for being Batman is ultimately about a random act, whereas Iron Man's was a direct result of his actions. Batman is obsessed with finding the most just answer to a random, cruel world, and because he is rich, has plenty of time to work towards that. Iron Man, on the other hand, was captured while selling war weapons, which is a direct result of his being a weapons manufacturer. So, his inciting incident is trying to right the wrongs that he caused. Batman is essentially trying to fight the random nature of the world, hence why The Joker is his arch nemesis. Not so much a mirror as a response; the world is telling Batman to gently caress off in human form. Also, you don't honestly think Batman wouldn't use his powers as much if not more than Superman if he had them? If he had those powers when his parents were killed, he would have essentially had the same response, but Batman with all the money in the world and superpowers would be a nightmare. He'd start by stopping smaller crimes, then eventually reason that the most just thing to do would be to stop all crime in Gotham all the time. And eventually he'd take it further, because you can't stop all crime, all the time, and of course there are random tragedies to think about. Batman isn't knowingly scared of Superman's power used by himself, but by an average person. Why should we think that he isn't an average person? He's rich, of course, but that's more likely to make you an rear end in a top hat. He's obviously got some sort of trauma, but again, that's more likely to make you an evil god-like fascist, not less. He can't fully see that, and would never admit it, but he knows it deep down. As you can tell, I have kind of a negative opinion of Batman. Call it a distrust of the rich and powerful, but Batman to me is constantly one slip away from being a super villain. If his idea of justice gets perverted in any way, he could very easily fall. Look at Dark Knight: He makes his crazy cell phone spying thing, but if he were just a little more unhinged, or got pushed a little further, who's to say he wouldn't keep using it?
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Dec 6, 2015 08:04
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Yoshifan823 posted:Because there is an inciting incident for his tragedy, and because he's rich. Hawkeye and Batgirl are not rich, and Mr Terrific and GA had different reasons for becoming superheroes. Yoshifan823 posted:As you can tell, I have kind of a negative opinion of Batman. Call it a distrust of the rich and powerful, but Batman to me is constantly one slip away from being a super villain. If his idea of justice gets perverted in any way, he could very easily fall. Look at Dark Knight: He makes his crazy cell phone spying thing, but if he were just a little more unhinged, or got pushed a little further, who's to say he wouldn't keep using it? Kurzon fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Dec 6, 2015 |
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Dec 6, 2015 08:08
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Wow, this looks horrible. I don't know which looks dumber: hipster Lex Luthor, autistic monster Zod, or another vaporization of an entire city killing millions.
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Dec 6, 2015 08:53
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I literally can't believe people try and use that last point as a flaw.
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Dec 6, 2015 09:39
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Immortan posted:Wow, this looks horrible. I don't know which looks dumber: hipster Lex Luthor, autistic monster Zod, or another vaporization of an entire city killing millions. Not teh frigging hipsters
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Dec 6, 2015 09:51
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Immortan posted:autistic monster Zod How can you post in CineD and not wish to see Superman punch this monster to death while crying?
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Dec 6, 2015 10:27
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Immortan posted:autistic monster Zod
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Dec 6, 2015 10:38
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Kurzon posted:What does autism look like? Wasn't Brainiac an autistic kid Superman had to kill in that one "pitch" posted here all those years ago?
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Dec 6, 2015 11:06
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"Tell me about the trains, Kal..... will there be trains?"
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Dec 6, 2015 11:10
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Corek posted:Wasn't Brainiac an autistic kid Superman had to kill in that one "pitch" posted here all those years ago? You might be confusing the "punch a retard to death" Bizarro story pitch with this promo for the recent animated movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYSxN4ezhO4
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Dec 6, 2015 11:10
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