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EatinCake posted:Cause started in a bad place and became a better person all around through her travels. Doctor gives them a bunch of money at the end I seem to recall, but the fact that she lost all that development was tragic. Yes, that was the point. It was supposed to be tragic. That it succeeded in being emotionally effective shows that it was good, not that it was bad.
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Dec 6, 2015 00:43
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Wheat Loaf posted:Just occurred to me - I might have misheard what Capaldi was saying but did they imply that Pop Tate's Choklit TARDIS was the same one the Doctor visited with Amy, Rory and River in "The Impossible Astronaut"? It was the same diner but was in a different place. I think the doctor must have worked out that the waitress was Clara at the end due to the disappearing diner and the picture of the waitress painted on the outside of his tardis. I don't really know what to think about that episode. On one hand I like the resolution to Clara's story, her going off on adventures with Ashildir is cool and leaves it open for her to return. On the other hand everything to do with Gallifrey and the other timelords was just terribly done and made no sense. The less said about the hybrid anti climax the better. What was the point of the angry old non timelord lady? She was there at the start of the season hiding the Doctor, then just appeared on Gallifrey - who exactly is she? The trailer for the episode (which I've probably seen about 2 dozen times this week as it's on all the time) was very misleading - it was edited in such a way to imply a very different type of episode to the one we got. Mr Beens fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Dec 6, 2015 |
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Dec 6, 2015 00:49
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So Clara is going to return next Christmas with Rusty, Jack, Me, Cyber-Brig, and Jenny, right?
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Dec 6, 2015 00:50
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Yes, that was the point. It was supposed to be tragic. That it succeeded in being emotionally effective shows that it was good, not that it was bad. People get weird about stories. Like with The Next Doctor when people thought it was some kind of mean trick because everyone knew there was an actual new Doctor coming.
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Dec 6, 2015 00:53
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Mr Beens posted:What was the point of the angry old non timelord lady? She was there at the start of the season hiding the Doctor, then just appeared on Gallifrey - who exactly is she? She's the head of the Sisterhood of Karn, keepers of the Flame of She's the one that helped a dying 8th Doctor regenerate into the warrior needed for the Time War.
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Dec 6, 2015 01:00
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Mr Beens posted:I don't really know what to think about that episode. They're never going to return.
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Dec 6, 2015 01:02
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Xelkelvos posted:They're never going to return. On television. You can bet Big Finish already has plans.
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Dec 6, 2015 01:06
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Jsor posted:So Clara is going to return next Christmas with Rusty, Jack, Me, Cyber-Brig, and Jenny, right? I am still mad we didnt get a Dalek as a companion
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Dec 6, 2015 01:09
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That episode was really good and made perfect sense while I was watching it. It kind of falls apart when you think about it, but that's fine. The emotional beats were spot on, and that's all that counts. PriorMarcus posted:He made it so the reason the Doctor left Gallifrey wasn't because he was bored and felt held down by the rot of their lovely society but because he was afraid of a silly prophecy he heard while in a silly prophecy tunnel. I can't believe Cobi was right about that. I'm sorry Cobi, I was wrong.  Honestly, I'm still not sure if that's actually what they said he did because the wording was odd, and the circumstances of everything established in this episode were vague and nonsensical. Also, my brain actively refuses to accept Moffat's attempts at retconning all of Doctor Who one series at a time. Jerusalem posted:The one thing I'm still unsure about is whether the season was linear or not. I still think there was something going on with the Doctor jumping back and fitting in new adventures with Clara around the ones he'd already had with her, as a way of still getting to hang out with her after her death (and later memory-wiped departure) but the finale didn't bear that out at all. Yeah, that was really misleading. Seems like the confession dial was just introduced in the first episode to establish the existence of confession dials because Moffat wanted to later turn one into a trap. The weirdness was probably a side effect of him writing the series from back to front. The whole hybrid thing was not a very typical Moffat plot twist, either. There was really no clever resolution. We still don't know who the hybrid is with certainty. The Doctor and Me were just sharing theories. It kind of reminds me of Listen from series 8, and how Danny's death is never really reconciled with what we see there.
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Dec 6, 2015 01:09
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Well that was a waste of an hour.
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Dec 6, 2015 01:18
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Burkion posted:Well that was a waste of an hour. This, except however long this season was
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Dec 6, 2015 01:20
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You're crazy. Heaven Sent was amazing.
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Dec 6, 2015 01:22
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And More posted:You're crazy. Heaven Sent was amazing. Which one was that?
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Dec 6, 2015 01:30
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Namtab posted:Which one was that? The one before this one.
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Dec 6, 2015 01:32
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And More posted:The one before this one. I didn't like it
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Dec 6, 2015 01:34
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egon_beeblebrox posted:On television. You can bet Big Finish already has plans. Briggs was writing the first script while he was talking into the ring modulator for his lines in this one.
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Dec 6, 2015 01:35
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And More posted:You're crazy. Heaven Sent was amazing. This except for the last bit on Gallifrey.
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Dec 6, 2015 01:36
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Fantastic follow up to last week's episode. Couple of like "yeah I get it he's a badass" moments but you have to expect that from a finale at this point. I've never been totally sold on the idea that the Doctor and Clara have such a legendary relationship (not so much a fault with this episode as the series leading up to it) but taking that as the premise going in, it was a pretty amazing ending (epilogue?) for Clara - the companion leaves the Doctor behind instead of the usual reverse. She gets her own Tardis too, the transformation is complete. I also appreciate (possibly not in the intended way) how they wrapped up the hybrid thing. They took 3 different candidates (Doctor, Doctor/Clara, and Me) and literally stood them on the remains of Gallifrey without actually having caused it, so the prophecy turns out to be some old waffle that doesn't matter, ie. exactly how it's come across the whole time. Tempo 119 fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Dec 6, 2015 |
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Dec 6, 2015 01:52
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I enjoy the poetry of the season starting with a mess of an episode that felt like it badly needed an editor and ending with a mess of an episode badly in need of an editor. I'm really getting sick of Moffat's wet fart of finales.
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Dec 6, 2015 01:58
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One nice thing about a truly stupid RTD finale is that there was always so much heart put into it. There was always something to focus in on and latch onto, some big stupid thing that you hated and loved at the same time. TINKERBELL JESUS DOCTOR! This was just Nothing. Two characters I do not like and one character I would like a lot more if he wasn't for some reason totally over the moon about one of those other two, just standing around and talking and throwing random bullshit words And the entire first chunk of episode is nearly pointless and utterly forgettable. I forgot Rassy was even in here and it was just Nothing Why was this an hour long? Nothing happened. Nothing was accomplished. It's just A waste of an hour. I'm not even angry or upset. Just confused about why Moffat thought this was a good idea to end season 9 on. Why this was what he was building up to. How was this what he was building up to And hey guess what Clara is the bestest companion ever and the most special person to ever live because now she too is the Doctor and so can you
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Dec 6, 2015 02:04
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Burkion posted:
This owned, though? I mean I loved it, and if I was a little girl watching the show with my parents? I would've flipped out and instantly tried to turn the kitchen into my diner TARDIS and stolen Dad's shades.
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Dec 6, 2015 02:08
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Gaz-L posted:This owned, though? I mean I loved it, and if I was a little girl watching the show with my parents? I would've flipped out and instantly tried to turn the kitchen into my diner TARDIS and stolen Dad's shades. It's largely undeserved because Clara does not have a consistent personality at any given point in time. Season 8 they were heading towards one but then they threw the breaks on it and just kind of repeated the same mistakes they did before, when she wasn't being insufferable or actually reckless and stupid. I mean I guess that was a plot point because it got her to become a super immortal time traveling person now but just... It's done with such a note of blandness and it just doesn't work for me.
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Dec 6, 2015 02:12
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I'm glad the sliders were in this episode, as well as my faves the statues, daleks and cybermen
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Dec 6, 2015 02:16
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jivjov posted:Watching the jackasses melt down about The General's regeneration is hilarious...although I would have been happier if the newly regenerated character hadn't had to make a snarky comment about it. Yeah this. On-screen regeneration into a woman? Great! Character immediately turns into Female Moffat Character #17 and starts reminding everyone around her that she's a woman in the most insufferable Whedon-lite way possible? poo poo!
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Dec 6, 2015 02:16
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White guy regenerating into black woman is just gonna get tumblr madder when the doctor doesn't do it when capaldis contract runs out
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Dec 6, 2015 02:17
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The Big Finish special offer was fittingly the Gallifrey series, which I've heard very good things about
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Dec 6, 2015 02:20
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Dabir posted:Yeah this. On-screen regeneration into a woman? Great! Character immediately turns into Female Moffat Character #17 and starts reminding everyone around her that she's a woman in the most insufferable Whedon-lite way possible? poo poo! In his defense, Moffat had already used up his best idea for a time lord regenerating into a time lady in The Curse of Fatal Death. What was he supposed to do?
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Dec 6, 2015 02:21
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Wheat Loaf posted:I liked the episode. It wasn't as good as last week's story but that was a very difficult one to follow. I did not feel bored watching it. There's only really been a couple of episodes I didn't really enjoy this season, so I think it has been pretty good on the whole. Same here. My Mum has been watching this stuff since it started in 1963, and the past half series episodes she's started saying to me how since these 'new writers' (she thinks they changed them all after Smith) it's been 'very intense recently, it used to just be light-hearted'. Worse, 'I've got no idea what's going on, it's not really aimed at kids anymore, is it?' I'm inclined to agree. She liked the Christmas trailer though. I enjoyed the series of pictures and sounds I saw tonight, I liked some of the Clara stuff this week, but it (like Clara) never came together as a cohesive whole. I could not look over Clara's character arc (or arcs?) and give you anything too solid about her character traits. Everyone acted the gently caress out of it though, even Maisie Williams who I normally find dull did well. PriorMarcus posted:It's a massive retcon, and at this point means that Moffat has written the entire Doctor's past as fact, whereas before he was in charge we only had brief hints. Also, this is something that's been bugging me about Moffat's stuff for years. He's never seemed content to just pick up the ball and run with it instead of changing the markings of the pitch to his liking.
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Dec 6, 2015 02:29
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I liked the episode, enjoyed the season in general. I seem to rarely get disappointed with Doctor Who but I suppose I don't really go in with a lot of expectations.
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Dec 6, 2015 02:30
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Stabbatical posted:Same here. My Mum has been watching this stuff since it started in 1963, and the past half series episodes she's started saying to me how since these 'new writers' (she thinks they changed them all after Smith) it's been 'very intense recently, it used to just be light-hearted'. Worse, 'I've got no idea what's going on, it's not really aimed at kids anymore, is it?' I'm inclined to agree. She liked the Christmas trailer though. My dad's been a bit cold on it since Tennant left, because he doesn't think Smith or Capaldi have as much gravitas. Make of that what you will. 
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Dec 6, 2015 02:42
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It was a bit of a non-ending, but I liked that in the same way as Listen. I've never liked it when they make Doctor Who too epic for a season finale by having the universe ending or thousands of Daleks. This was a story that flirted with the epic - time fracturing, Gallifreyan society, the end of the universe, etc - but tells a more personal one instead. There's no Doctor Jesus, or him being part of the big bang or whatever, he's just a Time Lord who just scraped a passing grade trying to make best of his situation and use it to save his friend. I even like that he lost the gamble at the end. I prefer a fallible, believable Doctor to a magic man I think. I wasn't sure about bringing Clara back, but in the end I think it worked quite well. I don't disbelieve his or her actions.
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Dec 6, 2015 02:48
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I think I liked that? I always like Time Lord shenanigans, and I loved the design of the Sliders. The hybrid stuff still makes very little sense, and I'm hoping it never turns up again. However many billions of years it was for the Doctor trapped in the dial counts for little, because from his point of view it was only a few hours/days. Eh, I kind of want to watch the first two eps again, and then these final back three, and see how it all hangs together. Or not, as I'm pretty sure. On the plus side, classic console, new sonic, back into the velvet frock coat, and Clara/Ashildr flying around the universe in the TARDINER.
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Dec 6, 2015 02:52
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Maisie was really good this week, and I think pretty much puts paid to the 'she can't act' crowd, considering she very clearly was playing an Ashildr who would see the Doctor as a true equal. Maybe even look down on him a little. A distinct, but not complete shift, from how we last saw her, and different from her first appearance, and how she is on GoT The superior-but-not-smug delivery when he asks her how she's maintaining the bubble was, fittingly, brilliant.
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Dec 6, 2015 03:00
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And More posted:In his defense, Moffat had already used up his best idea for a time lord regenerating into a time lady in The Curse of Fatal Death. What was he supposed to do? It's apparently a normal thing in time lord society for regenerations to switch gender so the two characters could've just treated it as unremarkable instead of a great big knowing wink to the audience in the form of stilted dialogue.
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Dec 6, 2015 03:03
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Wheat Loaf posted:My dad's been a bit cold on it since Tennant left, because he doesn't think Smith or Capaldi have as much gravitas. Make of that what you will. The man likes his RTD, I suppose. Can't blame him. Really, the last thing I know for certain she really liked was the banter between 12 and Robin Hood. She likes the Cybermen cameos which have shown up in the past few episodes too. I think she thought the Missy/Master reveal was clever? She'd forgotten about Danny by the time Clara mentioned him in Face the Raven. The_Doctor posted:I think I liked that? I always like Time Lord shenanigans, and I loved the design of the Sliders. The hybrid stuff still makes very little sense, and I'm hoping it never turns up again. I think this is the best possible assessment. The Sliders looked great.
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Dec 6, 2015 03:04
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Yes, that was the point. It was supposed to be tragic. That it succeeded in being emotionally effective shows that it was good, not that it was bad. Amy & Rory's ending was just the right amount of bittersweet for my books. Though everything about the show around that time was wonderful. Series 5 for life.
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Dec 6, 2015 03:08
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Why do they keep bringing Gallifrey back and then doing absolutely jackshit with it? Going back to Gallifrey has lost all meaning at this point.
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Dec 6, 2015 03:08
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What a strange season finale. I'm really curious about the episode ending--why are we getting this great moment of "be the Doctor"? That's an ending for season 8 where you had all that stuff about Capaldi wondering if he was the Doctor or a good man!
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Dec 6, 2015 03:18
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I think I liked the finale more than most of the fine goons I've seen comment on it so far, though it's certainly no Heaven Sent. That's a high bar though, since I have to imagine that'll stand well above any other single Capaldi episode once his time with the show is up. I would've liked Me to at least throw a quick comment about Jack in there, not necessarily saying that he's still around but aluding to them having met. Good grief there were a lot of Big Finish setups in this episode though. You have the obvious Clara and Me running around for awhile until they realize time really is for sure getting wrecked and go "welp, time to get you to Gallifrey so you can die Clara!" Then we get to hear Clara have big goodbye moment #4  . More impressive to me is that they've looped in an option for Eleven to have a wacky adventure with Clara, we do see him enter the diner through the same door Clara used to enter the diner-exterior Tardis. Heck, she even has a proven Doctor mindwipe device right in hand. I could easily see a handful of Clara and Me adventures, then Me exits one way or another, and right after that there's a knock at the door and Eleven cruises in. And it's the brief adventure or two or three that Clara has with him that give her the courage to face her death after being handed a chance to live again.Oh, and I was way off on those lamps on the Street coming into play and producing an illusion, though I nailed the obvious involvement of a memory wipe. And I also think this would've been a cooler finale if it revealed we've been seeing an out of order season, and that would've made a lot of tiny bits of the season make way more sense, but I guess they just cut straight to 'The Doctor thinks he can save Clara and does that plan" and didn't include the "Doctor and Clara super sad grief tour" that most of us were expecting to see. The big thing to take away from this is that Clara's gone and we're getting one last crazy adventure with River for Christmas, and since I've always liked River it should be a good time. Gaz-L posted:Maisie was really good this week, and I think pretty much puts paid to the 'she can't act' crowd, considering she very clearly was playing an Ashildr who would see the Doctor as a true equal. Maybe even look down on him a little. A distinct, but not complete shift, from how we last saw her, and different from her first appearance, and how she is on GoT I was watching some videos on the Who website in the leadup, and Moffat said that Me in her appearance would be WAY older than the Doctor and be more than his equal, and after billions of years the REALLY long way round it made sense to me that she has a brain that's working at or above the Doctor's level. I mean you have to figure she found a way to exploit or nullify her memory limitations after the first, say, hundred million years. I also liked that after living billions of years she's still not ready to die, and just casually strolls into the Tardis and chills on a railing to the side or whatever until it smoothly falls into her lap. Me after about a thousand years was begging the Doctor to take her with him. Me after billions of years becomes the only person to successfully steal a Tardis from the Doctor. When she's done, he doesn't even remember he had it in the first place  . And for those who think that she just got lucky, remember that it's her conversation with the Doctor that leads to Clara messing with the memory wipe device and the Doctor deciding that he has to end their time together one way or another. I could totally buy that she's manipulating both of them to get what she wants.
NowonSA fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Dec 6, 2015 |
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Dec 6, 2015 03:19
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Yannick_B posted:What a strange season finale. Because despite Clara's previous instructions he just spent 2 eps fuelled by spite and revenge, and pissed away all his goodwill on Gallifrey
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Dec 6, 2015 03:25
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