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Turok was the reason why I used inverted aim on dual-stick controls for years. I eventually forced myself to play standard because my aim wasn't that great.Rupert Buttermilk posted:You can't? Jesus christ, why not? Nobody really considered it back then. In flight games like Starfox you pull the stick back to go up and I guess that control paradigm kind of stuck. Honestly in my opinion Turok's biggest control crime was forcing lookspring and slope-look now that I think back on it.
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Dec 7, 2015 07:04
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have i told you that funky or odd looking shareware covers are my current aesthetic? no? well, here you go:   
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Dec 7, 2015 07:20
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This one rules.
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Dec 7, 2015 07:23
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newmans_owned posted:have i told you that funky or odd looking shareware covers are my current aesthetic? no? well, here you go: Holy poo poo, all these own.
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Dec 7, 2015 07:34
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and of course, doom level/content discs are another world entirely. some of them included the shareware releases, but their primary point was to just cram on as much content onto a disc as possible. i'm sure some of you know of the d!zone discs from wizardworks, but many other software publishers tried to take advantage of doom's craze and put out whatever they could. they didn't care about consent from mappers or developers most of the time (i remember seeing readme's from .WADs that explicitly say "please don't put this on a commercial disc, thank you"). let's start off with the most garish looking cover ever:  THE MAXIMUM DOOM BATTLE  this one is a doozy 
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Dec 7, 2015 08:03
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My dad had the whole spread of D!ZONE discs and while maybe 75% of the stuff on them was garbage, they had this weird front-end program that could combine WADs and convert maps between all the Doom engine games, amongst other things. I remember really wanting to play Hexen maps in Doom II for whatever reason as a kid.
mystic pimp fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 08:37
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site posted:I don't give two shits. I'll play it. Given that this is the old FPS thread, I'm pretty sure that statement was meant as a positive.  Also, it looks great.
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Dec 7, 2015 09:19
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newmans_owned posted:and of course, doom level/content discs are another world entirely. some of them included the shareware releases, but their primary point was to just cram on as much content onto a disc as possible. These also own. Maybe it's my own broke brain but I was able to follow that 3rd box cover with no problem. Welp, guess I know what I got to do next 
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Dec 7, 2015 09:31
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I kind of want to see a new compilation disk with a nice front end and everything, picked to be the best of the last two decades of Doom mods. ... and a single terrywad just to gently caress with people. I'm mean like that.
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Dec 7, 2015 10:08
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Ah yes, Maximum Heath, the British countryside mod.
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Dec 7, 2015 10:10
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Wamdoodle posted:These also own. Maybe it's my own broke brain but I was able to follow that 3rd box cover with no problem. Welp, guess I know what I got to do next  A lot of these shovelware compilations have awesome cover art. I always thought this one was gnarly.
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Dec 7, 2015 10:39
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Like most of the cool stuff Night Dive releases, I'm not waiting for a sale or discout of any sort. I'll buy Turok remastered both on GOG and Steam and:RyokoTK posted:Put "YOU DIED" at the bottom of the screen and it's pretty much Dark Souls, really. Pretty much this.
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Dec 7, 2015 12:33
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gullah jack posted:
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Dec 7, 2015 15:03
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Mak0rz posted:Nobody really considered it back then. In flight games like Starfox you pull the stick back to go up and I guess that control paradigm kind of stuck. Oh, I misunderstood, I thought you had said that it was non-inverted, and you couldn't fix it. But it was inverted? Good. God's chosen y-axis configuration 
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Dec 7, 2015 15:04
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Humans Among Us posted:I spend 45 minutes yesternite to finish the first mission of Operation Serpent, i think i explored the map in the worst possible order before i even found the first key after 30 mins or so. That said, i did enjoy it quite a bit. Glad you like it! I hope you get all the way to the end because the levels become more and more radical and add more and more features as they progress.
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Dec 7, 2015 16:06
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Oh, I misunderstood, I thought you had said that it was non-inverted, and you couldn't fix it. I recall seeing this Sega-made Star Wars arcade game at a Chuck E. Cheese's many years ago which also had inverted aim. This kinda-sorta made sense in the space stages (even though you weren't actually steering the vehicle, you were just aiming a turret), but made absolutely no sense when it came to the Darth Vader lightsaber duel bonus stage (aim your saber up? Pull the stick down! (???)).
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Dec 7, 2015 18:12
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Hail the king Holy poo poo look at those photorealistic textures 
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Dec 7, 2015 18:35
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Shadow Hog posted:Well, unless you like playing games with non-inverted analog aim. In which case, it's clumsy as hell. Forgot about the lookspring, though, that's also pretty naff. (I think the analog mode in Saturn Quake has similar issues - lookspring, inverted aim you can't change, and - I forget if Turok has this problem, though I'd imagine it doesn't - you can't look all the way up/down, despite non-analog mode letting you do so.) Yeah you can look nearly 90° in Turok, it just takes goddamn forever because y-axis look speed decelerates the more you crane Tal'Set's stiff neck.
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Dec 7, 2015 19:25
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Zaphod42 posted:Hail the king didn't someone edit in screenshots from that UE4 Doom remake onto one of these
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Dec 7, 2015 19:37
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Shadow Hog posted:Well, unless you like playing games with non-inverted analog aim. Of course not, why would I? I really don't understand you non-inverted people EDIT: VVV I know they are, I'm just joking around. Or am I? Rupert Buttermilk fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 20:15
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Of course not, why would I?
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Dec 7, 2015 20:33
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I did my twin-stick shooting with inverted y-aiming for years. Then one day it was like a switch just got flipped in my brain and it felt wrong. I jumped to default Y-aim with no real learning curve and never went back. It was weird.
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Dec 7, 2015 20:40
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Minidust posted:I did my twin-stick shooting with inverted y-aiming for years. Then one day it was like a switch just got flipped in my brain and it felt wrong. I jumped to default Y-aim with no real learning curve and never went back. It was weird. Yeah, I don't get why I need inverted aim, because I never used to when I was a kid, or when I played Goldeneye back in the day, at first. I just know that I absolutely cannot handle it otherwise. Oddly enough, and this is an argument that gets thrown at me for non-inverted players, is that I'm absolutely fine with left being left, right being right. By my inverted rules, it should be the opposite, but it's not, and I'm totally ok with that. So, yeah, I have no idea why it's different for different people. Also, Shadow Hog, I was just kidding around. S'all good, man.
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Dec 7, 2015 20:48
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Yeah I have always used an inverted y-axis in all FPSes and I can't really explain why. I imagine it must be from playing flight simulators??
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Dec 7, 2015 21:16
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Also, Shadow Hog, I was just kidding around. S'all good, man. That said, I have seriously gotten into arguments over inverted aim, elsewhere. (Although, the person I got into the argument with wound up earning a spot on my block list for that forum over insisting on badgering me about something totally different, even after I told him several times in no uncertain terms that I didn't want to hear it and wanted him to leave me alone, so I guess the guy just had a thing for getting into arguments in general.) Shadow Hog fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 21:21
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Just to make sure, we're all talking about console FPSes, right? Or do some of you actually invert the mouse?
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Dec 7, 2015 21:25
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Duke3d was the first FPS I played with a mouse and the default was inverted mouse aiming, so that's how I played until games started defaulting to non-inverted. Then I guess it was easier to get used to aiming the other way than to manually change the setting every time I started playing a new game 
Convex fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 21:40
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Mouse movements are translations (linear shifts) forward/backwards along one spatial axis, and FPS players map those to a field of view rotating around a different axis. There's no obvious/natural/inarguable way to do that mapping and people have different mental models for it, whether it involves how their neck works or whatever. I hate to just wander into the thread to say AAAARRRRRGH but this topic has been so thoroughly dead-horse-beaten over the years in gaming circles that whenever a Seinfeldian "what is the DEAL with those (non)inverted mouse guys" thing starts up, my eye gets to twitching.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:47
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Convex posted:Duke3d was the first FPS I played with a mouse and the default was inverted mouse aiming, so that's how I played until games started defaulting to non-inverted. I always got the impression that early mouse controls, much like early stick controls, took their first cue from flight sims and got the idea of (what we now consider) reversed inputs from there. It took a while before “reversed” even meant the same thing across games, IIRC, so you had to test each game to see whether “reversed” was the normal direction or not. Of course, while everything was 2D + height, it didn't really matter since the axis hardly even existed other than as a potentially (visually) ugly hack.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:50
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Linguica posted:Yeah I have always used an inverted y-axis in all FPSes and I can't really explain why. I imagine it must be from playing flight simulators??
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Dec 7, 2015 22:00
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Its just a matter of perspective. Normal controls follow the direction of the view, left looks to the left. Inverted controls follow the direction of the camera, it swings to the right to look to the left. In 3rd person you could tilt up to look upwards, but you could also tilt downwards to rotate the camera downwards thus giving you an upwards view. For me personally it always made more sense to use normal controls in FPS, but I used to use inverted in flight sims (and some games back in the day would make you) but its always just a matter of perspective. Its like that image of the dancer spinning where some people see it clockwise and some people see it counter-clockwise. If I look at it for a few seconds I can actually force it to reverse and see it the other way, there's no inherently right answer, its just perspective.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:05
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Personally I have two opposing thumbs, my right thumb which is mainly used for aiming in FPSs with a controller, is inverted, anything else feels terrible and unplayable, I've tried many times to reset my brain by forcing myself to play normal but it never works, I'd have to consciously think about the direction every time I moved, which isn't ideal at all. My left thumb however doesn't give a poo poo, it can be inverted, normal, even the X-axis could be backwards and I can play just fine, but that's mainly for games that have a 'stop and aim' mechanic, like RE4, or for rail shooters. With a mouse however it's always normal, I can't really get behind inverted mice aiming.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:18
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For me it's all inverted everything. Joystick, thumbstick, mouse, whatever. I just can't make my brain work the other way. Also the dress was white and gold.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:37
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Dec 7, 2015 22:43
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It took me until Wolfenstein: The New Order to learn WASD instead of the arrow keys 
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Dec 7, 2015 23:29
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:I'm absolutely fine with left being left, right being right. By my inverted rules, it should be the opposite, but it's not, and I'm totally ok with that. So, yeah, I have no idea why it's different for different people. Depends how you look at it. If you imagine like the stick represents your head, you tilt (turn) your head left to look left, but forward to look down.
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Dec 8, 2015 00:01
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That doesn't make any sense to me. A joystick is a steering device, so inverting the Y axis makes sense, whether controlling a plane's rudder or a human neck. A mouse is a pointing device, so ideally there should be a 1:1 correspondence between moving the mouse and moving the crosshair. Joysticks and mice do different things.
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Dec 8, 2015 00:49
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I invert everything. Even my trackball. 
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Dec 8, 2015 01:06
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:I invert everything. Inverted trackball? Isn't that just an awkwardly shaped mouse?
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Dec 8, 2015 01:06
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I think it's a normal trackball mouse, just held upside-down
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Dec 8, 2015 01:07
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