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YoshiOfYellow posted:The logical break points in my head for episodes would just be where the disc swaps are but I imagine that's a little huge for what episodic releases typically are. It's not really a logical point for FF7 because the last disc in FF7 is basically just "do some sidequests, go punch Sephiroth, we used most of this space for FMVs."
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Dec 7, 2015 20:05
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it's funny if you force the game to run disc 1 as Disc 3, you get FMVs like cloud jumping onto the train instead of the world core behind sephiroth
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Dec 7, 2015 20:18
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It makes more sense for Tifa to be confused about Cloud not being a SOLDIER because he's doing all this crazy poo poo that only SOLDIERs can do because, if I remember correctly (I may not, we are talking about FF7 after all) he underwent the same treatment all top tier SOLDIERs go through with mako to enhance their everything, only in extreme amounts because Hojo's a crazy fucker. So he's got the strength, speed, agility, endurance, everything a SOLDIER can do. He looks like scrawny failure Cloud, but he's got anime bullshit to back up his claims.
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Dec 7, 2015 20:25
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Official confirmation that FF7r is on Unreal 4.
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Dec 7, 2015 20:26
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Gologle posted:It makes more sense for Tifa to be confused about Cloud not being a SOLDIER because he's doing all this crazy poo poo that only SOLDIERs can do because, if I remember correctly (I may not, we are talking about FF7 after all) he underwent the same treatment all top tier SOLDIERs go through with mako to enhance their everything, only in extreme amounts because Hojo's a crazy fucker. So he's got the strength, speed, agility, endurance, everything a SOLDIER can do. He looks like scrawny failure Cloud, but he's got anime bullshit to back up his claims. I feel like the best thing this remake will do is finally clear up the vague and poorly translated story on who and what everything is. I feel like the general rule is most explanations of everything in that game almost work until someone points out one other scene that doesn't fit.
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Dec 7, 2015 20:37
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I feel like the best thing this remake will do is finally clear up the vague and poorly translated story on who and what everything is. I feel like the general rule is most explanations of everything in that game almost work until someone points out one other scene that doesn't fit. The problem with making everything crystal clear is that it completely removes the need for discussion and debate on the plot. People are STILL talking about the finer points of Souls games plots because they're interesting and obtuse. If you took everything in FF7 that people talk about, which is most of the confusing and/or mistranslated poo poo, then you have a very straightforward storyline that isn't very unique at all.
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Dec 7, 2015 20:42
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Platypus Farm posted:People are STILL talking about the finer points of Souls games plots because they're interesting and obtuse. It's also largely because DS 1 and 2's plots, outside of the main obvious poo poo, are more questions or vague references than actual stories. It has almost nothing to do with any problems with clarity the FF7 translation does or does not have? "Why was there a unique skull that looks like nothing else down here in the world with no time or death? Why was the Seethe scaleless? How did he know about lighting in a world where lightning didn't exist? What are the DK2 Giants and why are they nothing like DK 1 giants? Why is everything tree based in these games? Where the hell do other concurrent kingdoms fit into this stupid cycle of kings?" Are all questions the game's brings up and the answers with a shrug and an 'eeeeeeeeeh you figure it out I guess?' It's a writing style tailor made to grab the attention of the kind of person who wants to 'figure out' the lore or make up their own assumptions and fill in the game's holes with whatever makes them feel better about it. Usually that kind of person is the kind that really wants to tell others how they see it and figured out what's really going on (See: The million+ Lore videos for the Soul's game where some nerd tells you how they interpreted the 3 lines of item info that talks about the kingdom of Faroffandnotimporantia) Not saying it's a bad thing but by design there will never be solid concrete answers to most of it and that's why people still discuss it. Iffy translation aside, FF7 has answers for all its mysteries. It's a solved thriller, not he lore mad libs that Dark souls is, so obviously it's gonna have less discussion about it 18+ years later. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 20:57
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Platypus Farm posted:The problem with making everything crystal clear is that it completely removes the need for discussion and debate on the plot. People are STILL talking about the finer points of Souls games plots because they're interesting and obtuse. If you took everything in FF7 that people talk about, which is most of the confusing and/or mistranslated poo poo, then you have a very straightforward storyline that isn't very unique at all. Yeah, a totally straightforward story about a man getting stuffed into a tube full of alien juice to give him super powers, followed by him having a schizophrenic break and reconstructing his psyche from stolen and made-up memories, wherein the alien cells manipulate his mind to chase other hunks of the alien cosplaying as an insane super-soldier with mommy issues from the man's past whom he thought he killed. The man joins up with a cast of "heroes" that are actually civilian-killing terrorists and otherwise generally hosed up people. We've all heard this story a million times.
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Dec 7, 2015 20:58
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Platypus Farm posted:The problem with making everything crystal clear is that it completely removes the need for discussion and debate on the plot. People are STILL talking about the finer points of Souls games plots because they're interesting and obtuse. If you took everything in FF7 that people talk about, which is most of the confusing and/or mistranslated poo poo, then you have a very straightforward storyline that isn't very unique at all. I feel like in the 20 years between the original and the remake should be enough time for discussion. Now we can get a final and unambiguous time line of who and what sephiroth was at various points.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:01
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It is legitimately sort of weird to imagine that a game where the protagonists are heroic terrorists committing justified acts of mass destruction that kill civilians in order to fight capitalism in the year 2016. (or 2017 or 2025 but you get the idea.)
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Dec 7, 2015 21:02
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I'd actually imagine Midgar being the hardest part of the game to do in all honesty since it is so expansive and it does seem like they want to make the city fully explorable this time. The other settlements of the game aren't nearly as big or convoluted besides maybe the Gold Saucer or Junon so in theory, there wouldn't be quite so much to work on. Unless they're going to expand those places too, in which case it'll be nice to finally play this in 2030. I do kind of wonder how they'll do the world map though, since expanding that and making it much larger while keeping the scale of settlements in the distance like Midgar will be quite the undertaking. Owlofcreamcheese posted:(also please no one give me a time line of sephiroth I've read it in the wiki too, I mean as a comprehensible thing in the actual game that doesn't require you to read a wiki to know there is two separate sephiroths, but not more than that because copy/clone/duplicate isn't what they meant) Sephiroth Clone is a completely horrible word to use to explain what experiments who were infused with Mako and injected with Jenova cells are. I've no idea what the translators were thinking since for the longest time, I thought Cloud was a clone. There are only two Sephiroth's, the one you're chasing for most of the game is actually Jenova from the Shinra HQ, using shapeshifting abilities to look like Sephiroth while the real Sephiroth is the one in the Northern Crater who was there since the Nibelheim incident and summons Meteor. Selenephos fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 21:03
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Now we can get a final and unambiguous time line of who and what sephiroth was at various points. (also please no one give me a time line of sephiroth I've read it in the wiki too, I mean as a comprehensible thing in the actual game that doesn't require you to read a wiki to know there is two separate sephiroths, but not more than that because copy/clone/duplicate isn't what they meant)
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Dec 7, 2015 21:04
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It's more fun and interesting when it's ambiguous.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:04
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I do kind of wonder how they'll do the world map though, since expanding that and making it much larger while keeping the scale of settlements in the distance like Midgar will be quite the undertaking. well the cities weren't really "to scale" on the original overworld. they were very simplistic looking from outside
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Dec 7, 2015 21:06
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In Training posted:It's more fun and interesting when it's ambiguous. Yeah, but you got that for TWENTY ENTIRE YEARS and having it make sense this time might be a nice change of pace. It didn't really improve the game that lots of plot points are lost because they used the wrong word in translations.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:06
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It makes sense in the original release though? The only real ambiguity in the game is the relationship between Jenova and Sephiroth. Not the Mom son poo poo because that's 100% bullshit, but the idea of who's really in control? Is Jenova using the image of Sephiroth to strike fear into the hearts of people who might try and stop her from seeking revenge? Is Sephiroth pulling the strings from his materia tomb in the Crater and using Jenova's powers to gently caress poo poo up? Or are they working together? Cloud, given how personal the attacks to his psyche were, believes it's all Sephiroth's doing, but the story leaves it a little ambiguous since Cloud kind of see's Sephiroth everywhere to the point the game ends with an Idealized version of Cloud dream-killling an idealized version of Sephiroth. While the ambiguity is interesting, the ideas behind it, "which villain is REALLY in control?", aren't actually that important to the overall narrative or that character arc for the protagonist. Leaving it ambiguous doesn't hurt anything.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:11
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Excels posted:it's funny if you force the game to run disc 1 as Disc 3, you get FMVs like cloud jumping onto the train instead of the world core behind sephiroth This is really fun because the final fantasy games mixed real-time rendering into certain FMVs, so you could see popeye Cloud like dive into a train and then climb through the train or something.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:16
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It makes sense in the original release though? It makes sense if you read a bunch of websites. If you just play the game 99% of people will think there being multiple sephiroth's is just part of the sephiroth copy thing. Which is just some translation error.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:50
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It makes sense if you read a bunch of websites. If you just play the game 99% of people will think there being multiple sephiroth's is just part of the sephiroth copy thing. Which is just some translation error. Yeah.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:55
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What is this I'm hearing about the remake being an episodic release with each episode the length of a full game? That's unbelievable. As in, I literally don't believe it.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:59
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It makes sense if you read a bunch of websites. If you just play the game 99% of people will think there being multiple sephiroth's is just part of the sephiroth copy thing. Which is just some translation error. 8 year old me had it pretty figured out just from playing the game so I don't think it's as confusing as you found it to be? You spend the climax of the Temple of the Ancients, which you've spent the whole disc chasing a super scary extra magical version of Sephiroth from Shinra HQ to there, learning that Jenova's a shapeshifting lady Lavos that disguises herself as things to infiltrate societies to eventually eat them up. It might be ambiguous during the first part of the game but they solve that mystery right there. All the clues like him dropping pieces of Jenova behind him and the fact that he's nowhere near as strong in the flash back (Seriously, he phases through walls and poo poo during the game) fall together there. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 22:01
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8 year old me didn't understand that Cloud and Tifa hosed and everyone watched
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Dec 7, 2015 22:06
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slev posted:8 year old me didn't understand that Cloud and Tifa hosed and everyone watched Can't wait for all the cool racey bits like this to be cut from this apparently 2000-hour remake. I still can't trust Square not to filter the story through the "bland and soulless and depressed" filter like they did with like every other FF7 thing since release. I'm like a lover scorned, SE is offering me flowers but I just can't bring myself to trust them again. I'm skeptical about video games is what I'm saying.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:10
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A lot of people still don't accept that Cloud gave her one.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:11
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It makes sense if you read a bunch of websites. If you just play the game 99% of people will think there being multiple sephiroth's is just part of the sephiroth copy thing. Which is just some translation error. Do you have any examples? I haven't played FF7 all the way through in forever. I don't remember having any confusion about multiple sephiroths but what with Cloud/Zack I could see the dialogue being confusing.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:11
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I still don't recall that, after playing the game 20 times since 1997. Is the Sephiroth you see during the game just Jenova or some kind of mental projection? Also, chapters as I might optimistically suggest in terms of balancing development/modeling... 1 Midgar (develop combat and engine, generate lots of assets that will be reused, get foundation in place) 2 Kalm -> Costa del Sol prison escape (World Map, Chocobos, Junon, Saucer, ending with Barrett-centric portion & buggy) 3 Gongaga/Cosmo Canyon > Temple (rest of World Map, Tiny Bronco, ends on Aeris leaving) 4 Bone Village > Icicle Inn > Mideel (huge northern limits section, Aeris death, ends with comatose Cloud) 5 Huge Materia quest > Midgar II > End (underwater portion, Diamond Weapon, revisiting Midgar, Northern Cave, endgame) e: I guess if you ignore the amount of content in each chapter, it would ideal to end one on Aeris dying. But Discs 2 and 3 are just so short/irregularly paced compared to Disc 1 where you literally cross the plane.t Electromax fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 22:13
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slev posted:8 year old me didn't understand that Cloud and Tifa hosed and everyone watched I'm sorry wait when did this happen? I definitely don't remember this in the game.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:15
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Kingtheninja posted:I'm sorry wait when did this happen? I definitely don't remember this in the game. It is somewhat implied at the end before they go into the crater. Madmarker fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 22:18
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Electromax posted:I still don't recall that, after playing the game 20 times since 1997. Is the Sephiroth you see during the game just Jenova or some kind of mental projection? Huh? Sephiroth is Sephiroth. I think you misunderstood what he was saying exactly.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:21
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Madmarker posted:It is somewhat implied at the end before they go into the crater. But only if you have a high relationship score with Tifa, otherwise the script for that scene is slightly different and there's nothing to imply 
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Dec 7, 2015 22:22
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Electromax posted:I still don't recall that, after playing the game 20 times since 1997. Is the Sephiroth you see during the game just Jenova or some kind of mental projection? Sephiroth throughout the game is just Jenova pieces materializing as him IIRC
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Dec 7, 2015 22:24
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Zaphod42 posted:Huh? Sephiroth is Sephiroth. I think you misunderstood what he was saying exactly. The only real Sephiroth is the one at the crater. All the other Sephiroths you see during the game are just JENOVA parts, guided by both the cells' instinct to reunite and Sephiroth's will.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:25
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Zaphod42 posted:Huh? Sephiroth is Sephiroth. I think you misunderstood what he was saying exactly. I just saw people talking about the Sephiroth you see throughout the game (Shinra HQ, on the boat, in the Temple) and I always thought that was just him projecting an image of himself (that can stab) from his goo prison in the Crater. Thus the teleporting through walls and stuff. But I looked it up on wiki just now and I guess it's actually just Jenova who is shapeshifted to look like him? In any case, there could be some sweet Thing-esque shapeshifting horror if they do the Shinra HQ escape right. That part left me creeped out as a kid when I didn't know what the trail of blood led to.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:25
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Electromax posted:I just saw people talking about the Sephiroth you see throughout the game (Shinra HQ, on the boat, in the Temple) and I always thought that was just him projecting an image of himself (that can stab) from his goo prison in the Crater. Thus the teleporting through walls and stuff. But I looked it up on wiki just now and I guess it's actually just Jenova who is shapeshifted to look like him? Sephiroth, after Cloud through him into the lifestream, spent the whole game frozen in a block of materia in North Crater with Jenova's head with him. The Sephiroth you see is Jenova, who's escape you witness at Shinra HQ, trying to get back to Her head and Sephiroth, and doing all the poo poo she can to enact her revenge on the descendants of the people that hosed her up in the first place. Sephiroth is possibly pulling the strings (this is the actually ambiguous part) and working with her because he thinks he's her true heir since he got inject with her cells all throughout his life. She and Seph want meteor to wreak sweet vengeance on the people that hosed her up originally and to kick up the lifestream so she can eat it, heal up, and shoot back off into space, which was her original plan back in the day. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 22:33
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gently caress, that summary makes it sound as cool as it is. You guys really want to convince me to get the original on Steam when it isn't on sale, don't you. Again.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:35
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The White Dragon posted:gently caress, that summary makes it sound as cool as it is. You guys really want to convince me to get the original on Steam when it isn't on sale, don't you. Again. I mean, you are coming close to your last chance to REALLY relive what the game was like before Square ruins it with the remake.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:39
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The White Dragon posted:gently caress, that summary makes it sound as cool as it is. You guys really want to convince me to get the original on Steam when it isn't on sale, don't you. Again. Or on PS4  But PC is better since you can replace the map models with the battle models using mods. No more popeye cloud!
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Dec 7, 2015 22:40
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So keep in mind that when you see that the JENOVA body had secaped from its containment at Shinra HQ, that was likely it breaking from the inside out, after having been held there for over a year (presumably HQ had it transported from Nibeheim back to Midgar after Seph took the head). It probably only got its chance to escape thanks to the chaos caused by Cloud and co. breaking into Shinra HQ. This is also why the blood trail only starts from Floor 67, where the body was kept. After that, it drops off parts of the body along the way for Cloud to fight each time they encounter it (BIRTH, LIFE and DEATH).
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Dec 7, 2015 22:41
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ApplesandOranges posted:So keep in mind that when you see that the JENOVA body had secaped from its containment at Shinra HQ, that was likely it breaking from the inside out, after having been held there for over a year (presumably HQ had it transported from Nibeheim back to Midgar after Seph took the head). It probably only got its chance to escape thanks to the chaos caused by Cloud and co. breaking into Shinra HQ. It's also implied that contact with Cloud, who's been high on Jenova cells for quite some time, might have awakened JENOVA. When he looks into the containment pod there's a weird heartbeat noise that starts up and Cloud has a tiny little panic attack.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:45
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Zaphod42 posted:Or on PS4 But PS4 let's you go all Bravely Default and turn off encounters/multiply XP etc.
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