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Something you shouldn't play. But actually, Dragonborn Dragon Sorcerer using Ancient Soul to make Dragonbreath a Sorc power that recharges when you take the type of damage it does, optimised to either include itself in the blast using Hurl Breath or include allies in the blast and take the damage from it using Nusemnee's Atonement (or whatever that name is), and the Sensate theme to avoid taking actual damage because you get temps every time you use it. So your standard actions are normal sorcering, but you also get two minors per round which will do almost as much damage as most of your standards. Forever.
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Dec 7, 2015 09:56
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| # ? May 15, 2024 16:00 |
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what
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Dec 7, 2015 10:00
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Yeah, so you just spit out 3 huge AOE Dragonbreath moves, and with a properly optimized build, say with 21 Constitution? That means each round you do 3 blast 3 aoe, each one dealing 1d6+5 At level 2 (So Blast 3 3d6+15 total at level 2, every round.)
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Dec 7, 2015 10:05
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That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It's awesome 
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Dec 7, 2015 10:10
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Do not ever play this build unless you are at the highest of high-op tables, or you are a madcrazy optimiser at a low-op table and you need to make sure you have the ABILITY to kill everything forever without actually doing so most of the time. A rebreather can be a nice emergency button in that situation, as long as you basically never rebreathe unless you're the only one left standing.
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Dec 7, 2015 10:16
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holy poo poo now i'm thinking about how that would scale up and that would eventually become like 9d10+24 every round
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Dec 7, 2015 10:18
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My table has been playing this game for months and we still barely know how to play, so once my crocodile Slayer dude (Who stunned the entire table with his real ultimate power) inevitably dies I am very, very tempted to stat up a Rebreather and go "YOU THOUGHT THE LAST GUY WAS OP? YOU HAVE NOT EVEN BEGUN TO COMPREHEND" and then cackle maniacally as I murder everything.
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Dec 7, 2015 10:21
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alcharagia posted:That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Dragon Breath is one of like, two effectively at-will minor action attacks in all of 4e, and the other is Brilliant Recovery at level 27, which is still harder to use than Dragon Breath. Still broken, though. Make sure to be a Revenant, the actually broken race in 4e, for extra minors and invincibility while you vomit napalm on all your foes. Outside of DBs, I guess the best races are Tieflings for their mountain of racial feat support, especially the one that turns all stuns into dominates at epic, Half-Elves to poach Eldritch Strike or Twin Strike, and Pixies for limited flight. The coolest races are Changelings and Wilden. More interestingly, what are the worst races? I'm thinking Razorclaw Shifters, who are worse than Elves at everything, and that race from HoS that loses a healing surge for no reason.
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Dec 7, 2015 10:25
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Humans are generically good at basically anything, especially with their e-racial power, dwarves and eladrin have crazy amounts of support, and yeah, tieflings and half-elves are nuts. Worst races are the MM ones that never got full PC versions, and probably Bladelings.
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Dec 7, 2015 10:28
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alcharagia posted:My table has been playing this game for months and we still barely know how to play, so once my crocodile Slayer dude (Who stunned the entire table with his real ultimate power) inevitably dies I am very, very tempted to stat up a Rebreather and go "YOU THOUGHT THE LAST GUY WAS OP? YOU HAVE NOT EVEN BEGUN TO COMPREHEND" and then cackle maniacally as I murder everything. That really sounds like the sort of thing you would just describe conceptually and maybe bring in an alternate character sheet for, for one encounter. Something like a "hey guys check out this cool bug/exploit I found, but no I'm not going to do it all the time"
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Dec 7, 2015 10:30
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gradenko_2000 posted:That really sounds like the sort of thing you would just describe conceptually and maybe bring in an alternate character sheet for, for one encounter. Something like a "hey guys check out this cool bug/exploit I found, but no I'm not going to do it all the time" I'd stop the instant they said "no, gently caress you, no, I don't care how legal it is no" which would probably happen within instants 
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Dec 7, 2015 10:32
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The best races, in no particular order except dwarves, are these: Dwarves. These are my pick for D&D master race. Insanely good racial ability for just about any class, tons of gnarly support, ability score options that let them play just about anything. Half-Elves. Almost entirely good because of dilettante. Dragonborn. Very, very good racial abilities whether or not you pick the draconian subraces. Draconians can fly like, all the time. Your racial is seriously that difficult terrain means nothing. Only race with +Str and +Cha. Pre-splatbook kobolds. Shift as a minor was incredibly abusable. Pixies. Fly all the time and get some very interesting spacing tricks. Please keep in mind that the disparity between the best and worst races in 4E is much lower than it is for the best and worst classes. The only really poo poo races are bullywug and maybe orc. Everything else at worst has at least a couple of good "use cases" and most have lots of options.
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Dec 7, 2015 11:03
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And even Bullywugs and Orcs are just not good, rather than being outright bad. If you pick a class that matches the stats and has enough class feats that you don't need racial ones, they'll do fine.
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Dec 7, 2015 11:35
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Favourite for flavour is definitely the Bullywug though. You're a frog man that even existance is trying to snuff out. Played a Revenant Bullywug once who just barely tolerated his party, since they were the ones who killed him. I'm also a huge fan of the Dragonborn and Warforged as far as mechanically sound races to play. The real question is, why can't I play as a Wemic?
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Dec 7, 2015 17:02
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Alright, here's a quick question. I have a group trying to start up a new dnd campaign, but they are dead set on 3.5. What's the best way to try and turn them to the 4e side, in addition to offering to DM (which I already plan on doing). They are hugely resistant to 4e, and I doubt they ever tried it.
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Dec 7, 2015 17:06
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It depends on why they're resisting, but I would think that doing character creation for them (with their preferences and character concepts in mind) and/or providing pregens would lift a lot of barriers to play.
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Dec 7, 2015 17:08
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Yeah, finding out the reason for the resistance is key.
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Dec 7, 2015 17:10
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thespaceinvader posted:Yeah, finding out the reason for the resistance is key. I've had a hard time figuring that out. I don't really get straight answers. Best I can figure is that it isn't the system they grew up with and the more "simulationist" aspect of 3.5 design seems to appeal to them. They really like the idea of having a page and a half of skills that 90% of the time don't matter.
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Dec 7, 2015 17:15
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Then let them do that. For the most part, the 4e skill system lifts right out and you could drop the 3e one in, without really affecting anything much at all. The main thing 4e brings to the table is balance and ease of running. You could also make it clear that you won't run anything else...
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Dec 7, 2015 17:23
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Yeah the thing about the 4e skill system is that it's very similar to the 3.5e system. Instead of having to track skill ranks, you simply tag some skills as "did I dump all my ranks into this? Y/N" In fact, that's even already a variant rule from Unearthed Arcana. The only functional difference is the half-level bonus, which means your "untagged" skills aren't disastrously low.
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Dec 7, 2015 17:27
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So it's been a couple years since I DMed a 4e campaign and lately I've been getting inspirations to DM again. I'm not very good at story telling but I have a lot of fun designing, especially when it comes to monster creation, so I'm writing up a module that is pretty much mini-dungeons with potential loot where they must fight a baddie at the end. Sort of like a D&D version of Monster Hunter. It's an epic-tiered campaign, levels I've never had my players play at, but I think it'll make it a lot more fun. I've settled with 4e because I personally think it's the most balanced and most strategic battle system that's easily accessible to everyone. I've written up the character creation rules for it, anyone mind taking a look at it? 4e Character Creation posted:This is a 21st level module intended on taking players to the 30th level. It is balanced with the 3 Player’s Handbooks as well as the 2 Adventurer’s Vault books. None of the other extended guides were considered. If you wish to incorporate the other guides then that is fine, just know that this module doesn’t take those guides into account. The module is designed for 4-6 players with each role fulfilled by at least one player. Also not sure about mixing just a few feats from Essentials into this but I've seen people here and elsewhere say that they're pretty essential feats that are often given to players for free so I thought I'd add them in too.
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Dec 7, 2015 19:44
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Yeah, toss everything in there. MME is a generally good book.
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Dec 7, 2015 19:58
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Dragonborn. Very, very good racial abilities whether or not you pick the draconian subraces. Draconians can fly like, all the time. Your racial is seriously that difficult terrain means nothing. Only race with +Str and +Cha. Vryloka also had +str/Cha, I seriously wanted to play a Vryloka Cosmic Sorcerer just so I could be a half-vampire channeling the raw power of
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Dec 7, 2015 20:10
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For extremely powerful races, Deva are very much near the very top because they have one of the most powerful EDs in the game (on top of a superb racial ability and stats that cover a lot of ground). Genasi became maybe one of the best melee striker races period following the creation of a single real stupid item. If you're using a heavy blade, Genasi will probably do ridiculous things to your damage. As was stated previously though, none of the races are really bad. There's two or three that have stats that don't really match anything at all, but even they can probably be worked out. This isn't 3.x where select races are built to literally punish you for wanting to play them.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:02
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ProfessorCirno posted:For extremely powerful races, Deva are very much near the very top because they have one of the most powerful EDs in the game (on top of a superb racial ability and stats that cover a lot of ground). Again with an entry level question: Does this mean Encounter/Daily? Edition? Elemental Dong?
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Dec 7, 2015 23:25
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Noxin of Shame posted:Again with an entry level question: Does this mean Encounter/Daily? Edition? Elemental Dong? Epic Destiny
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Dec 7, 2015 23:26
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Noxin of Shame posted:Again with an entry level question: Does this mean Encounter/Daily? Edition? Elemental Dong? Deva have an Epic Destiny - Soul of the World - that let's them pick two races and count as those two races for the sake of racial feats and abilities, and likewise to pick a class and count as that class for the sake of feats and power choices. Go back and look through the list of "this race is great because it has these awesome feats" and consider that a Deva can cherry pick them at will. It even still gets the generic stat boosts and such on top of that. It's extremely good. Also I just kinda like the Deva fluff 
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Dec 7, 2015 23:31
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Hah, I knew it'd be obvious. Thanks. Holy poo poo, that's amazing. My friend is playing a Devan cleric in our campaign -- He's struggling with the time commitment at the moment, so he's going to love it when I point this out to him, and that in a few levels time, he gets to effectively read through everything to see what he likes.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:41
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I don't get Memory. Actually I don't get +1d6 abilities. I can't imagine people use it when they're short by 5 or 6 (our deva sure doesn't), so it seems like practically speaking it's a retroactive +2, maybe +3, that sometimes has a chance to fail.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:43
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Caphi posted:I don't get Memory. Actually I don't get +1d6 abilities. I can't imagine people use it when they're short by 5 or 6 (our deva sure doesn't), so it seems like practically speaking it's a retroactive +2, maybe +3, that sometimes has a chance to fail.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:46
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ProfessorCirno posted:As was stated previously though, none of the races are really bad. There's two or three that have stats that don't really match anything at all, but even they can probably be worked out. This isn't 3.x where select races are built to literally punish you for wanting to play them. I am confident that I could fit any race into any role and play it in a solid 90%+ of games without any problem at all. Hell, as long as the race/class combination can eke out a decent AC I don't even really care what the racial stats are. Starting 16's are viable with a +2 in the mainstat, so starting 18's are viable with a +0. Deva Fighter? 18s/10cn/13d/8i/15w/12ch, use Scale for AC. The only race/class combinations this is problematic for are classes that base their AC off of a high offstat paired with races that don't get that either of those stats, and there are a lot of ways around even that if you're willing to hybridize. It wouldn't have top-tier optimization but unless you're doing the hardcore LFR poo poo you don't need top-tier optimization. Honestly, I would argue that top-tier optimization is usually detrimental in most games. Khizan fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 23:54
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LFR was never specially hardcore except at Epic. And even then it was always optional.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:56
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ProfessorCirno posted:For extremely powerful races, Deva are very much near the very top because they have one of the most powerful EDs in the game (on top of a superb racial ability and stats that cover a lot of ground). Yeah Deva is very, very good also.
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Dec 8, 2015 00:04
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Khizan posted:I am confident that I could fit any race into any role and play it in a solid 90%+ of games without any problem at all. A "great" race in 4E is: -Good racial power -Usable incidental bonuses -Good support -Two skill bonuses (this is more important than people give credence) Most races get at least 3 of these things. The great ones are all 4 of those and then some. If you play the game as "take any 2 ability score bonuses you want" it also opens the game up hugely. Name Change fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 8, 2015 00:07
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Deva are good but I like Aasimar better 
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Dec 8, 2015 00:22
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Deva are a rad concept with rad fluff
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Dec 8, 2015 00:50
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NachtSieger posted:Deva are a rad concept with rad fluff Aasimar don't look like purple gits
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Dec 8, 2015 01:13
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sucks to your aasimar
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Dec 8, 2015 01:20
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Really Pants posted:sucks to your aasimar lol
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Dec 8, 2015 01:42
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Question about Avengers: does their damage as a striker just kinda suck til they hit Paragon and grab Painful Oath? Seems like before then they're basically banking on being a more "reliable" striker, but without any actual bonus damage mechanic.
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Dec 8, 2015 04:15
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