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I'd like to know what side quests you guys are doing where every dialog option through the entire conversation iscode:Cojawfee fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Dec 8, 2015 |
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Dec 8, 2015 08:46
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Away all Goats posted:If that's the same buiilding I'm thinking of I'm pretty sure you're supposed to nope out of there after grabbing a fusion core which unlocks a door. I've been using mines and traps to deal with deathclaws for the most part. But an hour or so ago I was running down to cambridge and came across a legendary deathclaw at the red rocket north of cambridge. I expected a big long fight but my modded armor-piercing automatic combat rifle kinda tore it to shreds before I even realized what was happening.
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Dec 8, 2015 08:46
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Cojawfee posted:Edit: Actually, I want to play that game. You take your guy off on a different adventure from the main quest but the entire time he's crying and asking where Shaun is while clearing out raider dens. Wouldn't that be the "Season 2 of Lost" RPG?
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Dec 8, 2015 08:49
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Pwnstar posted:The criticism is that the game is trying to have it both ways. So it's just like New Vegas. I don't know why everyone gets so loving anal about this backstory bit when every Fallout... no, every RPG out there does the same and have numerous assumptions about your past so your character can be part of the story, making it feel more personal. New Vegas forces you to go to New Vegas, Fallout 1 forces you to find the water chip and destroy the mutants, Planescape Torment forces you to find yourself... Or is this about not being able to play as a person in a functioning heteronormative relationship. This isn't just about the writing backstory or whatever, nearly every complaint I hear in this thread is the same forced bullshit. It's not like New Vegas, the only good and perfect Roleplaying Game in existence, therefore it's dumbed down thrash. Switch New Vegas to Morrowind and you'll get every Elder Scrolls complaint as well.
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Dec 8, 2015 08:52
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Cojawfee posted:Edit: Actually, I want to play that game. You take your guy off on a different adventure from the main quest but the entire time he's crying and asking where Shaun is while clearing out raider dens. sometimes it can be yes, sometimes it can be no, sometimes it can just be indiscernible grumbling or yeehaws give me the cowboy and raider war dlcs already gosh edit: "so, you gonna buy something?" "yeehaw pardner" *trade screen opens*
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Dec 8, 2015 08:57
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Bholder posted:So it's just like New Vegas. To be fair, the lack of gated checks (requires perk/stat blah to unlock option instead of rolling a random speech check) and the dialogue tree aren't very good and the main quest writing is pretty bad. New Vegas had much better writing and I did prefer their system where certain conversation options were unlocked by certain skill/perk/stat thresholds. Everything else is a lot better though, and I have had a lot of fun with Fallout 4.
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Dec 8, 2015 08:58
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The difference between the story in NV and the story in FO4 is that Obsidian anticipated a range of options that really (as in literally, substantively, empirically) covered almost all players' desired responses to developments in the story, such that they felt connected to it, and Bethesda on average did not, and apparently that's all it takes to make or break the narrative of an open world game for a lot of people.  It doesn't break the game for me, but I can see the lack of response range and how not representing my responses obviously makes me feel less connected to the world as a whole. But since we can't articulate the space of possible responses in any meaningful way, it's stupid to try and nail down what "the thing" that differs between NV and FO4 is in terms of concrete examples from the games, because that's not where the difference in game experience comes from.
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Dec 8, 2015 09:01
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Zodium posted:The difference between the story in NV and the story in FO4 is that Obsidian anticipated a range of options that really (as in literally, substantively, empirically) covered almost all players' desired responses to developments in the story, such that they felt connected to it, and Bethesda on average did not, and apparently that's all it takes to make or break the narrative of an open world game for a lot of people. but seriously though bring on the cowboy dlc "hello dad/mom it's me, shaun." "well tie my spurs ain't that a hoot and a holler *cowboy hat ejects off head with a bullet ricochet sound*" "yes, it's really me. your son."
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Dec 8, 2015 09:05
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Zodium posted:The difference between the story in NV and the story in FO4 is that Obsidian anticipated a range of options that really (as in literally, substantively, empirically) covered almost all players' desired responses to developments in the story, such that they felt connected to it, and Bethesda on average did not, and apparently that's all it takes to make or break the narrative of an open world game for a lot of people. This is a good post.
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Dec 8, 2015 09:08
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Not sure how is there an issue expressing your character when one of the issues with the dialog system is that you are given 3 different ways to say the same thing
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Dec 8, 2015 09:09
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Bholder posted:Not sure how is there an issue expressing your character when one of the issues with the dialog system is that you are given 3 different ways to say the same thing 
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Dec 8, 2015 09:11
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Zodium posted:The difference between the story in NV and the story in FO4 is that Obsidian anticipated a range of options that really (as in literally, substantively, empirically) covered almost all players' desired responses to developments in the story, such that they felt connected to it, and Bethesda on average did not, and apparently that's all it takes to make or break the narrative of an open world game for a lot of people. I think the design principles of the game have changed pretty radically and that has a lot to do with it. There doesn't seem to be more than one way to approach most quests. When you do get a choice it rarely makes a lot of sense for whatever you've imagined your character to be. Let's look at a quest like Big Dig. It's a quest where the only option is to walk away if you don't want to get involved in a heist. Bobbi never tells you what you're doing to the very end, presumably to preserve the 'twist' at the end of it, but there are like a dozen times where I should have been able to take some other kind of action. Given that on its face she's supposed to be breaking into the storehouse in Diamond City, there should be some way to turn her into the guards especially when she's sitting right loving there but nope, I'm apparently bought into this heist until the train pulls into the station. You finally get a choice at the very end but it's robbed of all impact because you've had gently caress all to do with getting there. Or take Cabot House. If you have hacking high enough you can discover the mystery of Cabot House in like the first 30 seconds but it doesn't really matter! You can't confront Jack with his obvious immortality. There's no option to take the artifact off of Lorenzo without killing him. There's no option to say gently caress it and kill both of them. The game doesn't take advantage of its opportunities - stories are a straight line affair with, at most, a binary choice at their apex. That's dull. Especially with something succinct like Cabot House. There's no danger of the story spiraling out of control and creating too many variables to control. It doesn't connect to any other plot threads. I like Fallout 4; I may even think it's one of the better games in my library! But there's a lot of missed opportunities. A game this open really should have a lot of different approaches to problems. Most dungeons are just boring ol' raiders and I guess the Charisma perks (Intimidation etc) are supposed to take the place of more diplomatic routes. Some of the dungeons are just straight shots - towers and buildings with a single entrance - that don't really encourage stealth in any appreciable way.
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Dec 8, 2015 09:19
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Wait, the baseball uniform can be worn under armor and gives a STR bonus? drat. That would've been useful for my continuously being 5 lbs. over carry limit and military fatigues/combat boots looking boring.Fereydun posted:where's the mod where i get a baby in the head instead of a bullet These shots are gorgeous and you should do more of them. They don't seem too high to me at all if you're trying to match them to the isometric games, but to be fair, I played both F1 & F2 with widescreen mods
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Dec 8, 2015 09:20
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You can respond however you want as long as you express the same basic idea, agreed.
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Dec 8, 2015 09:20
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Fereydun posted:what i do want to know is if the angle on these shots seems off. they feel like they're too high but i can't really tell Looks on-point to me. I want to be in that parallel universe.
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Dec 8, 2015 09:22
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The difference is that one has the player character voiced and the other doesn't. Doing that both changes the manner in which one develops story, and changes the narrative frame from being about your character to being about the character. This is why RP nerds are made while other people don't care, and there's no way around this problem without increasing the amount of recorded dialogue by an order of magnitude. NV is not comparable to Fallout 4 because the way your character interacts with others is fundamentally different. Argue the merits of that choice if you want, but talk about that choice, not about vague senses of how one is better. Most games with a voiced character have dialogue that is structured around response archetypes, and once you see the strings around this it gets harder to invest in any of them. You don't run into these problems when your character isn't voiced, or when there are a lot of different options which are interspersed. Fallout 4 has a problem because there are two common sets of response options that occur with enough frequency to be identifiable: the baby/spouse/more info set, and the noble/sarcastic/aggressive set. This was a bad choice by Bethesda because it becomes extremely predictable, and their frequency often is at odds with what a player is doing in the game (how is it that my character cares a bunch about their baby and yet is loving around with ceilings for a week).
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Dec 8, 2015 09:34
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Mendrian posted:I think the design principles of the game have changed pretty radically and that has a lot to do with it. There doesn't seem to be more than one way to approach most quests. When you do get a choice it rarely makes a lot of sense for whatever you've imagined your character to be. It's not missed opportunity or design philosophy, though. The other side of the coin to my point is that the story actually isn't bad, but the rest of the game and the world are so engaging that they demand an exceptional story, at least in terms of anticipated response space, which creates the feeling of missed opportunity. Especially if you played NV, since NV's narrative is really an exceptional open world narrative, probably the single best CYOA story ever written if we're being honest, but Bethesda basically did all the hard work for them, work they had years to familiarize themselves with before conceiving the story. A few years to digest the mechanics, the world and assets makes it a lot easier to dream up a large response space, probably more than most players really appreciate. Bethesda have to do all the expensive, so very expensive work making the game software and world assets too. It's really not fair to Bethesda to slam what's an essentially adequate story just for not being up to the same world class standard as the rest of their game, or to the other world class standard for story that NV set. It's part expectation management, part development constraints, but not design philosophy. The one thing I do think is unfortunate from a design point of view is the choice of a voiced main character, because 1) voicing increases immersion, but that's not what you want when your adequate story options often conflict with players' desired responses, and 2) it makes it impossible for players to fix the problem with mods. Coolwhoami posted:Most games with a voiced character have dialogue that is structured around response archetypes, and once you see the strings around this it gets harder to invest in any of them. You don't run into these problems when your character isn't voiced, or when there are a lot of different options which are interspersed. Fallout 4 has a problem because there are two common sets of response options that occur with enough frequency to be identifiable: the baby/spouse/more info set, and the noble/sarcastic/aggressive set. This was a bad choice by Bethesda because it becomes extremely predictable, and their frequency often is at odds with what a player is doing in the game (how is it that my character cares a bunch about their baby and yet is loving around with ceilings for a week). This is a good post. It doesn't have to be that way given infinite time and resources, but voicing puts extremely harsh constraints on story complexity for practical reasons. Zodium fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Dec 8, 2015 |
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Dec 8, 2015 09:36
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Bholder posted:Not sure how is there an issue expressing your character when one of the issues with the dialog system is that you are given 3 different ways to say the same thing This is it. You can be nice, not so nice, or inappropriately sarcastic...
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Dec 8, 2015 09:36
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So at level 54 I've just found the USS Constitution, but the lookout is dead and all I find is a bunch of robots that try to shoot me as soon as I get near. How do I undead that fucker and make them stop shooting at me so I can do the quest?
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Dec 8, 2015 09:40
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Friar Zucchini posted:So at level 54 I've just found the USS Constitution, but the lookout is dead and all I find is a bunch of robots that try to shoot me as soon as I get near. How do I undead that fucker and make them stop shooting at me so I can do the quest? Enter console, click corpse, type "resurrect"
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Dec 8, 2015 09:58
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Azhais posted:Enter console, click corpse, type "resurrect" Or I could just Fat Man the whole thing and get the hand cannon the boring way... but that's boring.
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Dec 8, 2015 10:07
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Friar Zucchini posted:If I do that, will the robots not be hostile anymore? They don't do enough damage to bother me, I just still get the feeling they oughta not be hostile if it's gonna work. Not sure. You could try stopcombat
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Dec 8, 2015 10:08
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Azhais posted:Not sure. You could try stopcombat stopcombat and probably setrelationshiprank player 2, but it'll be crazy annoying to do for all the robots. Use tai and tdetect while you do it. I'd do the top floor and see if that lets you talk to Ironsides or not first.
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Dec 8, 2015 10:13
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Zephyrine posted:Groundbreaking was Skies of Arcadia on the dreamcast where you could play a minigame on the memory card as a portable and then get items to use in the console game. Final Fantasy 8 did this first, didn't they? I remember buying a Pocketstation in Japan so I could play the chocobo mini-game back home.
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Dec 8, 2015 10:16
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Bholder posted:Not sure how is there an issue expressing your character when one of the issues with the dialog system is that you are given 3 different ways to say the same thing
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Dec 8, 2015 10:26
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Fuggit, that's too much work. I'm just gonna shoot the place up and see what happens, hopefully next playthrough it'll work.
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Dec 8, 2015 10:30
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Coolwhoami posted:You're aware you can set games to not automatically update in steam, right? More of a gripe with steam than FO4. I had to unfuck my FOV again, that's it. Not like I had some mod-data tied to a save that would be lost forever if I continued playing on the patched version, but that's exactly the problem I've had with other steam games in the past. What will happen a year from now when I start playing this again with 30 mods installed?
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Dec 8, 2015 11:02
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I tell my followers to head back to sanctuary but they're all missing. Is my game bugging out on me?
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Dec 8, 2015 11:07
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NutritiousSnack posted:I tell my followers to head back to sanctuary but they're all missing. Is my game bugging out on me? I figured that out when I was getting "MOMMY THE RAIDERS ARE BEING MEAN" missions from some settlement that had two residents cause I didn't give a gently caress about it. Tried to fast-travel to their place and to the pip on the map and couldn't find them for the life of me, and any time I fast traveled their map pip would move somewhere random. Figured it was a glitch, of course. But then I realized it was always somewhere in a certain region, which happened to be somewhere between the original settlement and Sanctuary, usually near a road. Turns out I'd assigned them both as provisioners and forgotten  and since fast traveling takes up in-game time, by the time I got to where the map marker had been they'd kept on walking and they weren't there anymore. So I had to pretty much guess where they were along the path and close the rest of the distance by foot.edit: Is picking who helps you build the teleporter the point of no return for which ending you get? Friar Zucchini fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Dec 8, 2015 |
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Dec 8, 2015 12:06
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Bholder posted:
Sounds like it's not just fans of New Vegas that make this complaint then. It's also fans of older Bethesda games.
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Dec 8, 2015 12:52
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I don't get the point of the mixed drugs, especially Psychojet. Why not just use the Psycho and the Jet seperately so you have the damage boost for 8 minutes instead of 15 seconds?
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Dec 8, 2015 12:55
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Speaking of Morrowind, they did a good thing with the main quest where questgivers would tell you to go away and train up a bit before you move onto the next step of the mission or they need time to prepare something, which gave you to reason to go gently caress off and do random sidequests or pick flowers.
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Dec 8, 2015 13:29
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Back Hack posted:Comparing a single element that is only required at the literal end of NV compared to something in F4 that you are constantly hounded by at every corner of the game is not a good comparison. I've taken a break from the main story quest after the Memory Den because I don't want to go to do the next step yet and I've just been doing sidequests and a little exploring and I don't think anyone has mentioned Shaun or it's been any kind of dialogue option for around 30 hours of playtime. Sometimes it feels like I'm playing a different game to a lot of people posting in this thread. Then again the game is 10/10 GOTY material for me and I'll probably play it for several hundred hours less than a lot of people in this thread who hate the game and Bestheda and all they stand for so I just chalk it up to 'people be crazy'... and that's fine.
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Dec 8, 2015 13:31
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Alabaster White posted:I don't get the point of the mixed drugs, especially Psychojet. Why not just use the Psycho and the Jet seperately so you have the damage boost for 8 minutes instead of 15 seconds?
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Dec 8, 2015 13:32
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Ugh I have so many issues with this game but I managed to get into a spot where I'm having fun. I'm literally just playing it like Diablo, running around on very hard mincing things with my explosive .308 combat rifle and exploring ruins, pretty much everything else is not great. I mean even combat is hilariously broken, the combat is better, but it's still a wet turd as opposed to a syringe laden mattress. Some of the enemies are interesting at least and it's fun VATsing everything into kibble. Also, still the jankiest game I've played this year. Strange to find so many weird defenders of the game here. Even if NV didn't exist as some kind of direct comparison it does so much to make me hate it, really user unfriendly, dumb design. The last video I posted, people told me to blow on my vents, like my PS4 was causing awful coding and buggy bullshit. Anyway, like I said I managed to have fun by treating it like Diablo:Wasteland. Have a video of me mincing a Legendary Alpha Deathclaw in about 4 seconds. https://youtu.be/8OQqjoK4UWw
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Dec 8, 2015 13:33
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:because then you can stack the psycho, jet, and psychojet separately Will Hancock idolize me if I do that? I'm really digging Hancock as a companion. I gave him a legendary sword and he's a complete badass. I won't give him armour though.
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Dec 8, 2015 13:34
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MY ABACUS! posted:I'm surprised they missed the opportunity to link the Fallout Shelter game in some way. It would be really neat to be able to link your game and then have people from your vault show up in the Commonwealth. Or, maybe you explore the vault and find all of your dead vault dwellers.  Only two suits of power armor, though.  MH Knights posted:Actually according to the scrapped dialogue you could have been able to take over the BoS and made Danse your second in command. Falken fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Dec 8, 2015 |
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Dec 8, 2015 13:42
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Magmarashi posted:I will never understand how 'You can gently caress off and ignore the quest to find your son to plant crops and babysit people for 250 hours like some sort of sociopath' and 'I don't like how the game railroads you into taking this specific path around the map, following the main story the entire way' are seriously criticisms of the same game franchise. They want the intro screen to say Obsidian instead of Bethesda.
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Dec 8, 2015 14:01
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RBA Starblade posted:They want the intro screen to say Obsidian instead of Bethesda.
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Dec 8, 2015 14:03
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:actually I just want it to say "Michael Kirkbride" Mama Murphy has achieved CHIM, but instead of seeing the Morrowind game disc that Vivec saw, she sees a swarm of bits in a digital haze. She learns to condense them into a familiar form, then huffs it.
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Dec 8, 2015 14:09
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