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Qwijib0 posted:If you are fine with slight wall modifications just get a regular blank, install it then mark around it , take it off then chisel/knock out a little depth of the wall there and reinstall the cover. Bam, recessed cover. I like this idea. I can use a small size cover for this then if I move it later replace them with oversized and you would never tell. Thanks.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:38
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Or things like this do exist: https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/Kramer-W-2BLANK-faceplate-blank-cover/3295658.aspx http://www.kyleswitchplates.com/flat-short-4-duplex-outlet-cover-plate/
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Nov 24, 2015 21:49
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Mobile Home Question regarding Wiring and Water Heaters: Place built around 1990 or so: The first water heater was replaced around 11 years ago and I'm replacing another one now. I was sort of so focused on the actual unit that when it came time to hook it up I'm looking at something I didn't think about before. The cable coming to the water heater looks like Romex-type labeled a E18679 10-2: Two solid insulated wires and a solid bare ground, all wrapped inside a thicker insulation. It's coming out of the floor via some plastic tubing (I'm pretty sure polybutaline, as it looks nearly identical to existing PB plumbing) but the final 3 foot or so of the cable is exposed before it actually connects to the water heater. However, when I was looking up stuff online to double check stuff, is this actually to code and/or code for a mobile home? It seems like I'm reading that I need to have the cable replaced with a more protected cable, or do I just have to sheath it more with something like the PB pipe?
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Nov 27, 2015 20:59
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That depends entirely on where the water heater is. Is it sitting in the middle of your living room or in a closet that is not a dedicated mechanical room/area? Yes, you need armored cable. Is it in a cubby/cabinet that is just for the heater? Then no.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:32
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What if it was in a cubby, but after that "small" pressure burst back in '97, it's been comfortably resting in the living room, and we just haven't bothered to put it back?
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Nov 28, 2015 01:38
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Bad Munki posted:What if it was in a cubby, but after that "small" pressure burst back in '97, it's been comfortably resting in the living room, and we just haven't bothered to put it back? That's an exception as of 2009, so it would be okay. But the water damage from the blow out would have to be able to be dated based on facebook posts or you don't qualify for the exemption.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:44
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Cool I'll just leave it where it is then
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Nov 28, 2015 01:47
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I'll sign off on that.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:50
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Motronic posted:That depends entirely on where the water heater is. A bit of both. Water Heater is too big to fit in the old heater's dedicated concealed cubby, so now it's just outside the cubby, sitting in an unused room that is pretty much just for storage. HOWEVER, I built up a bit of a platform for the WH as part of a plan to build up a frame to conceal the whole thing with some drywall, panels or something to isolate it from everything.
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Nov 28, 2015 07:42
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So it needs to be connected with armored cable or conduit.
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Nov 28, 2015 16:44
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Hey, if anyone wants to burn their house down, I'll mail you this box full of obsolete receptacles the previous owner of my house was nice enough to leave me All of them are rated at 15A, but if you cut the ground pin off of a modern 20A plug you can shove it in there - backwards! Fun for the whole family!
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Dec 1, 2015 21:32
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minivanmegafun posted:Hey, if anyone wants to burn their house down, I'll mail you this box full of obsolete receptacles the previous owner of my house was nice enough to leave me Looks like some of the ones I replaced from my house. A few of them completely fell apart down the metal prongs for the outlets when I took them out.
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Dec 1, 2015 22:27
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I'm closing on my first house on Friday and before we move all of our stuff in I would like to go through and replace all of the faceplates, outlets, and switches. This is because the "freshly painted" house has all of the faceplates and a good number of the outlets painted over with whatever color the room was painted in. I have a few questions though: Other than cost is there any reason not to just shove GFCI outlets everywhere that takes a normal outlet and is readily accessible? It seems like accidents can happen anywhere (something spilled etc) and that it would be safer just to GFCI protect the whole lot? There is currently no Ethernet runs in the house and I plan to add them (but not yet). In the past I've used Leviton faceplates with holes in them for different keystone inserts. If I want everything to match is there any reason not to use something like Leviton Decora everywhere? Is that a good brand? From reading the thread it seems like CAFCI breakers are a lot safer. Any reason not to just deal out all of the breakers for CAFCI ones?
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Dec 3, 2015 07:53
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For each circuit you want to protect with a GFCI, you only need to install a GFCI outlet as the first outlet on the circuit. The remainder will be wired to the "load" side of the outlet. Or do the breakers instead; depending on code you may be required to do so if you touch anything anyway. Motronic would be more knowledgeable on that (particularly the national code portion), but ultimately it's up to your local AHJ, what version of code they use, and what they consider to be enough work to force an upgrade to the entire circuit. Personally, I'd make sure there's GFCI protection in the typical locations (bathrooms, kitchen, outside outlets). I'm not sure when and where code requires AFCIs, as my house predates them (and there haven't been any real significant electrical changes in this house since AFCIs became a thing). I went with Monoprice for all of my keystone jacks and wall plates - they're far, far cheaper than Leviton (as in mere cents for wallplates and $1-$2 for most keystones). Keystone sizes are pretty standardized, so you should be able to mix and match in case you run out of a keystone and need to run to Home Depot or Lowe's (I had to do that a couple of times). Just make sure you get a decent punchdown tool, the one I got was  and is a piece of garbage. Also, if you happen to live next door to a ham radio operator with an antenna as tall as his/her house, STP would be a wise choice over UTP (shielded vs unshielded). I've learned this one the hard way.
randomidiot fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 10:10
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some texas redneck posted:For each circuit you want to protect with a GFCI, you only need to install a GFCI outlet as the first outlet on the circuit. The remainder will be wired to the "load" side of the outlet. Or do the breakers instead; depending on code you may be required to do so if you touch anything anyway. Motronic would be more knowledgeable on that (particularly the national code portion), but ultimately it's up to your local AHJ, what version of code they use, and what they consider to be enough work to force an upgrade to the entire circuit. Thanks for the reply! Mostly I'm considering ensuring everything is GFCI protected (assuming there isn't a reason not to) because I'm not particularly worried about doing the minimum to match code, but rather the safety of things overall and it seems to me that even in rooms without water in them, liquids get taken into them, leaks happen, etc where it'd be safer to ensure everything is GFCI protected. I'm also considering wiring all of the outlets to the line side and popping a GFCI in each (assuming there isn't a reason not to) so that if a GFCI pops It doesn't require figuring out which GFCI covers some specific outlet but instead just go straight to the outlet that we're attempting to use. That feels like a better, "UX" for lack of a better term. The house has things like a Master bathroom protected by a GFCI in the hall bathroom which just feels like it'll be annoying if the GFCI ever trips. Considering switching to CACFI everywhere is for similar reasons, it must be safer to have them and I'd rather spend some money now and get a safer house than just accept the minimum.
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Dec 3, 2015 13:25
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You'll be paying 20x more, per outlet, on the off chance somebody spills something in such a way that would trip the GFCI, so you can easily trace that cord back to its particular outlet to reset it...instead of either using one GFCI per series & learning where it is in the set (which you will likely be doing anyway via the which-breaker-makes-this-not-live process while you're replacing stuff) or putting in GFCI breakers & knowing you have to go to the box any time something trips.
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Dec 3, 2015 17:33
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some texas redneck posted:Personally, I'd make sure there's GFCI protection in the typical locations (bathrooms, kitchen, outside outlets). I'm not sure when and where code requires AFCIs, as my house predates them (and there haven't been any real significant electrical changes in this house since AFCIs became a thing). Look up the NEC codebook. It's available for free on the NFPA's website, but you do need to register an account and you can't print it. You want to read sections 210.8 for GFCIs and 210.12 for AFCIs. Those sections will tell you where they're required. The general rule is pretty much that wherever one is required, the other is not and vice versa. Edit: the main pain in the butt regarding swapping a regular breaker for a GFCI or AFCI one is that they require that circuit's neutral wire also attached to them. You basically need to follow the hot wire with your fingers from the breaker up to where it enters the box, then follow its neutral wire back down to the breaker bar. And then sometimes there are circuits sharing a neutral... kid sinister fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 18:37
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Steampunk Hitler posted:Thanks for the reply! Mostly I'm considering ensuring everything is GFCI protected (assuming there isn't a reason not to) because I'm not particularly worried about doing the minimum to match code, but rather the safety of things overall and it seems to me that even in rooms without water in them, liquids get taken into them, leaks happen, etc where it'd be safer to ensure everything is GFCI protected. I'm also considering wiring all of the outlets to the line side and popping a GFCI in each (assuming there isn't a reason not to) so that if a GFCI pops It doesn't require figuring out which GFCI covers some specific outlet but instead just go straight to the outlet that we're attempting to use. That feels like a better, "UX" for lack of a better term. The house has things like a Master bathroom protected by a GFCI in the hall bathroom which just feels like it'll be annoying if the GFCI ever trips. Cost/overkill issues aside, here is a counterpoint: If something happened that has caused your GFI to trip, it probably should be a mildly annoying "WTF why is there no power?" moment that forces you to take a minute to find the GFI for that circuit and reset it. Yes there may be "nuisance trips", but much like circuit breakers if it pops you should probably have to stop and think about why it did and resolve the issue before you re-energize it anyways. In that case, the "UX" difficulty is actually a feature not a bug. The GFI in your master bedroom should rarely if ever trip, and if it does it's probably for something you should take a few moments to investigate anyways.
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Dec 3, 2015 19:55
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Im looking for clarification on sizing branch circuit wires for an electric range: 40A breaker required. Two hots would be 8AWG cu. Can I size my neutral based on the low energy need of the 120v components in the range (clock, timer, lamp, etc)? The equipment ground should be 10AWG cu if Im not mistaken
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Dec 3, 2015 20:05
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Hubis posted:Cost/overkill issues aside, here is a counterpoint: If something happened that has caused your GFI to trip, it probably should be a mildly annoying "WTF why is there no power?" moment that forces you to take a minute to find the GFI for that circuit and reset it. Yes there may be "nuisance trips", but much like circuit breakers if it pops you should probably have to stop and think about why it did and resolve the issue before you re-energize it anyways. In that case, the "UX" difficulty is actually a feature not a bug. Okay fair enough, I'll replace like with like then (or more specifically I'll read the NEC code and replace GFCI anywhere it's required, and one per circuit). Is there any reason not to drop CAFCI breakers into all of the breakers rather than just where they are required?
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Dec 3, 2015 21:46
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dwoloz posted:Im looking for clarification on sizing branch circuit wires for an electric range: NEC 2014 posted:210.19 Conductors - Minimum Ampacity and Size. Is your unit over 8.25kW? If so, then you get 2 #8 and a #10. Otherwise, 3 #8 and a #10 ground.
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Dec 4, 2015 01:01
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Appreciate the reply (and citation!) So #10 it is. Seems wasteful considering there's probably less than 10A ever on the neutral but oh well
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Dec 4, 2015 02:42
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dwoloz posted:Appreciate the reply (and citation!) For you, right now, specifically with this unit. Not the case for any other unit plugged into that stove outlet until perpetuity, which is what the code is meant to protect. There are houses wired with the 1912 code that are getting stuff plugged into them undreamt-of at that time, and their edison-base fuses protect the knob-and-tube wiring.
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Dec 4, 2015 12:22
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:For you, right now, specifically with this unit. Not the case for any other unit plugged into that stove outlet until perpetuity, which is what the code is meant to protect. Also there's the possibility of a hot-neutral short somewhere along the circuit, right? I assume that's what the "70% circuit ampacity" clause is there for. Even if you are ONLY ever carrying 10A there, you are one installation/wear fault away from trying to put 40A on it.
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Dec 4, 2015 14:20
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Was wondering if one of you guys could give me a hand with some wiring in a bench grinder that i am rebuilding. Obviously i forgot to make a wiring diagram when i took it apart. So i have 4 wires coming out of the motor, 2 black and 2 white. I have a 40mf capacitor and an on/off switch. It is a single throw double pole switch. Could one of you fine people maybe draw me a diagram or explain to me where I have to splice. I can get a picture or two if needed.
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Dec 5, 2015 17:56
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I made some spaghetti today.   Title 24 sure makes things a lot more fun. Tomorrow I'll clean it all up. I hope posting like this isn't a problem for this thread, I just had to take these pictures anyway and really liked them. mr_selfdestruct posted:Was wondering if one of you guys could give me a hand with some wiring in a bench grinder that i am rebuilding. Obviously i forgot to make a wiring diagram when i took it apart. So i have 4 wires coming out of the motor, 2 black and 2 white. I have a 40mf capacitor and an on/off switch. It is a single throw double pole switch. Could one of you fine people maybe draw me a diagram or explain to me where I have to splice. I can get a picture or two if needed. I wish I could but I don't know enough about that. Mimesweeper fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Dec 6, 2015 |
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Dec 6, 2015 03:24
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House I'm buying in Ohio has a 100A main panel. It's about 1800sqft and has a gas furnace, a gas water heater, a gas range and a beat up old electric dryer. I'm thinking about just buying a gas dryer and not worrying about upgrading the service. Anything I should know or take into consideration? The panel was installed like 5 or so years ago, but only some of the outlets are grounded. Where I want to put the TV/HTPC and where I want to put my PC are both ungrounded. Any realistic options other than running some new wiring?
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Dec 7, 2015 18:13
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100A is a little on the small side for 1800 ft2. If it's only 5 years old, then they should have done AFCI breakers in the new panel. Are there any in there? I wrote a 3 prong upgrade post that should help. Cross your fingers: if you're super lucky, then you won't have to run any new wires. "No grounding prong" does not always mean "ungrounded". Read my post and do the tests to see if the boxes your 2-prongers are in are grounded. That post also lists methods for upgrading to 3 prongers if you don't have the ground wires.
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Dec 7, 2015 20:28
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I have an electric range, electric water heater, and an electric dryer. My peak electric draw over any 30 second interval in the past 45 days was 60 amps (20 of that was the dryer, 20 was the water heater). In August, when the 3 ton AC unit was also running, I hit 75 amps once or twice.
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Dec 8, 2015 04:51
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Out of sheer curiosity, how are you getting those readings?
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Dec 8, 2015 06:47
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From a Brultech Greeneye Monitor
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Dec 8, 2015 07:11
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kid sinister posted:100A is a little on the small side for 1800 ft2. If it's only 5 years old, then they should have done AFCI breakers in the new panel. Are there any in there? No AFCI breakers, and I checked the inspector's report again, he said the panel is about 10 years old, not 5 like I said originally. Is 100A service a deal breaker in your mind when shopping for homes? I'm thinking I might just get a quote to see how much it would be to upgrade the service and panel. Thanks for the link to your write up on 2 prong outlets. I will do that as soon as I take possession.
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Dec 8, 2015 14:43
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After many funny stories later, we think we're getting our dishwasher plumbed in today. The outlet under the sink where it would plug in isn't configured correctly to be switched+always-hot. Before I start work, I wanted to make sure these diagrams looked correct: http://ask-the-electrician.com/disposal-wiring-diagram.html They seem sane to me.
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Dec 8, 2015 16:33
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:No AFCI breakers, and I checked the inspector's report again, he said the panel is about 10 years old, not 5 like I said originally. Is 100A service a deal breaker in your mind when shopping for homes? I'm thinking I might just get a quote to see how much it would be to upgrade the service and panel. For a home with all gas appliances, 100A is probably OK. It'd be super nice to have everything grounded, but that's also not a dealbreaker. In a lot of places, if you touch the panel, you have to bring the whole house up to code. Replacing a 100A service with a 200A service when everything else is 100% OK is roughly $2000. If you need wiring re-run and AFCI breakers and more circuits in places that require them, don't be surprised to see quotes in the $5000-10000 range.
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Dec 8, 2015 17:07
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H110Hawk posted:After many funny stories later, we think we're getting our dishwasher plumbed in today. The outlet under the sink where it would plug in isn't configured correctly to be switched+always-hot. Before I start work, I wanted to make sure these diagrams looked correct: Disposal Wiring Diagram #2 needs a code update. All switch boxes must have dedicated neutrals now, including switch legs. That means you aren't allowed to tape off the only neutral wire to repurpose it anymore. The update to make that diagram legal is really simple though. The cable going from the outlet box to the switch box must be 3-wire romex. You'd need to cap off that new white wire at the switch, then join the white wire of that new romex to the one at the outlet. With only 2 white wires, just use both screws on the outlet.
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Dec 8, 2015 18:36
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kid sinister posted:Disposal Wiring Diagram #2 needs a code update. All switch boxes must have dedicated neutrals now, including switch legs. That means you aren't allowed to tape off the only neutral wire to repurpose it anymore. The update to make that diagram legal is really simple though. The cable going from the outlet box to the switch box must be 3-wire romex. You'd need to cap off that new white wire at the switch, then join the white wire of that new romex to the one at the outlet. With only 2 white wires, just use both screws on the outlet. The "must have neutrals" is only for switches that control lighting. Dedicated switched circuits like this don't need a neutral in the box. See 404.2(C).
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Dec 8, 2015 18:45
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Is electricians doing work with circuits live just a thing? I've got a couple guys working here, they didn't shut anything off, and talking to a few friends they've confirmed that their electricians never shut anything off either.
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Dec 8, 2015 19:58
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minivanmegafun posted:Is electricians doing work with circuits live just a thing? I've got a couple guys working here, they didn't shut anything off, and talking to a few friends they've confirmed that their electricians never shut anything off either. Given the option, I'll shut something off. If I'm just in someone's house doing something, I'll check the panel. When it's unlabelled, I'll ask the homeowner. When the homeowner is clueless, I'll make an educated guess if it's OK to shut stuff off. Then I'll just do it hot, since none of that worked. A lot of guys I work with stop trying after step 1. <sarcasm> We've all got reasonably-well insulated tools, and 120V stings a bit but it's not gonna kill you, and if you accidentally short something, you'll find the breaker easily enough that way. No major downsides, really. </sarcasm>
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Dec 8, 2015 22:31
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minivanmegafun posted:Is electricians doing work with circuits live just a thing? I've got a couple guys working here, they didn't shut anything off, and talking to a few friends they've confirmed that their electricians never shut anything off either.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:14
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I've got a friend living in the Philippines who's trying to ground his computer and can't figure out how. To start, absolutely nothing is grounded there. Wiring is always ungrounded, electrical sockets with ground slots are totally unavailable, and it's largely moot because electronics he buys in-country usually come with the ground plugs cut off by the retailers. He wants to jerry-rig his own grounding, but the plumbing is plastic so that's out, and he's not sure which, if any, structural parts of the building actually run clear into the earth. He's willing to go to the effort to pound a stake into the ground and run a dedicated ground line to his computer, except everything is 100% paved over for hundreds of metres around. What's his best approach here?
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Dec 9, 2015 00:41
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