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Sword and Sceptre posted:Define "we", a Trump presidency would be the greatest thing to happen to the left in the US in decades. Yeah but you have to survive two years of Republicans holding all three branches of government followed by two years of gridlock first. And that's before you count
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Dec 8, 2015 04:20
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Helsing posted:It's cool that the thread about Islamophobia is largely dominated by people arguing that maybe Muslims really are subhuman monsters and all, but back in the real world the political hysteria being whipped up over Islamophobia is driving some really frightening political developments. Honestly it's one of the more freightening things in politics I've seen. Neither Muslims nor terrorism are a primary threat to America and considering them to be a headline threat isn't even consistent with "American #1" sentiment. If America is a powerful nation then its policy cannot be dictated by terrorists which operate, by definition, from positions of weakness. Nevermind the minor event which spurred this announcement or the unconstitutional and completely impractical nature of the proposed policy. The only positive thing to be read from the recent and increasing republican insanity is that there is a chance it will die with angry irrational declining demographic that's fueling it.
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Dec 8, 2015 05:33
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Yeah but you have to survive two years of Republicans holding all three branches of government followed by two years of gridlock first. Apologies I'm an idiot, I thought for some reason the democrats have more seats on the court. I just assumed it would be 2 years of bullshit with trump and the court would keep any crazy policy in check, I guess that is not the case.
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Dec 8, 2015 05:53
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Dec 8, 2015 05:56
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Sword and Sceptre posted:Apologies I'm an idiot, I thought for some reason the democrats have more seats on the court. I just assumed it would be 2 years of bullshit with trump and the court would keep any crazy policy in check, I guess that is not the case. Yeah, no. We're already getting major decisions decided 5-4 based on whichever side of bed Anthony Kennedy wakes up on (good for gay rights and habeas corpus, but screw you if you want birth control, fewer abortion limits, or gun control; and keep in mind that he literally wrote the 5-4 decision for Citizens United). Losing one of the liberals (RBG being very likely the next to go on either side) would knock that balance to a firm 5-4 for conservatives on even those issues Kennedy sides with the liberals on.
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Dec 8, 2015 06:25
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8ldYUmX-bs
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Dec 8, 2015 06:47
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it would be funny if trump wins, turns out to have totally lied in his campaign and goes on to be a generally sane (for a republican) president
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Dec 8, 2015 09:28
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Mulva posted:I'm sure it's part of it, but I personally think we only care about that stability as far as it keeps the oil flowing. That said, in point to you we have invaded stable oil producing countries before, so who knows at this point. The sauds need to sell their oil at a little over $105 to sustain their current budget. Currently crude is going for <$40 a barrel -- OPEC failed to reach a consensus and will not be restricting supply. Saudi Arabia has less than 5 years worth of cash on hand to sustain their spending. Their economy is gonna be a massive clusterfuck real soon unless oil prices rebound (and it doesn't look likely)
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Dec 8, 2015 12:43
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blowfish posted:it would be funny if trump wins, turns out to have totally lied in his campaign and goes on to be a generally sane (for a republican) president A lot of people would try to assassinate him if this happened.
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Dec 8, 2015 13:30
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As a non-American I am watching all this with some amusement. A Trump win in the Republican candidacy would mean a massive Democrat win in the general election right? Surely all the fence sitters wouldn't flock to the far right?
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Dec 8, 2015 13:39
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You overestimate the sanity of the people.
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Dec 8, 2015 13:44
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When I visited friends in Germany last month nearly everyone asked me about Trump, mostly in the "I mean it's just a thing you see on the TV right?" tone. Oh boy.
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Dec 8, 2015 14:03
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Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:As a non-American I am watching all this with some amusement. Knock on wood, my friend.
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Dec 8, 2015 17:49
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So anyway, after some British politicians, including the Prime Minister, called Trump out on his bullshit earlier, Trump is now claiming London is "radicalised" and that the Police there live in constant fear for their lives. http://news.sky.com/story/1602135/trump-police-fear-for-lives-in-radical-london Has there ever been a presidential hopeful this batshit loony before?
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Dec 8, 2015 18:17
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Ross Perot? Then again, Sid Meir's Civilization always seems to list Dan Quayle as the most incompetent politician.
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Dec 8, 2015 18:27
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Ross Perot? The problem is that Trump appears to be far too competent, and also out of his freakin' mind.
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Dec 8, 2015 18:35
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Talking Points Memo posted:Trump Has His Riefenstahl
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Dec 8, 2015 19:31
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Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:As a non-American I am watching all this with some amusement. You're asking the forum of chronic alcoholics and cynics whether you should be pessimistic?
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Dec 8, 2015 19:36
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Almost no one thinks Trump can win. Of course no one thought he would rocket to the top of the primary and stay on top for months. There's this truism among politicos that a politician with high name recognition (and Trump's was very high before he entered the race) cannot dramatically change their favorable / unfavorable rating among voters. It's supposed to be much easier to define yourself when voters have never heard of you before; if you're someone like Trump or Hillary Clinton then, so the theory goes, your numbers should be relatively stable. So when Trump came along people looked at the very high percentage of voters, even within the Republican primary, who viewed him unfavorably, and concluded he had little room to grow. Turns out Trump isn't constrained by the normal dynamics of a regular politician, because the more racist poo poo he says the higher he rises in the polls. He transformed his numbers almost overnight with his "the Mexicans are sending their rapists to America" announcement speech, and since then he's been riding high. Something like one in four Republicans are deadset against him and plenty of other Republicans would prefer someone else to him, but it's clear a very large and solid block of the GOP base love Trump. More importantly, their love has less to do with any policy he proposes and more to do with the man himself. Republican pollster Frank Luntz claims, based on focus groups he conducted, that it's basically impossible to shake Trump's supporters. You can tell them anything about the man, mention any unorthodox or unpopular past position he's taken, any bad thing he's done, and they'll continue to say they support him. At this point he really could be the nominee, and almost by default Presidential races are close things. The right mixture of events -- a bad misstep by the Democratic candidate, an unexpected terrorist attack, etc. -- and who knows what would happen. And even if Trump losses, he didn't create the xenophobia he is exploiting. All he's done is reveal just how viable the xenophobia strategy is. The GOP might not take the Presidency but if they can hold onto a lot of state houses and Congress then not controlling the presidency really just frees them from the responsibility of even pretending to govern. And given that the Democrats are on the verge of nominating one of the weakest candidates in modern memory, I think there's genuine cause for concern.
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Dec 8, 2015 19:52
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Helsing posted:
Assuming the last 25 years is "modern memory", the Democrats have nominated a candidate 6 times, and have won 4 out of those 6 times (maybe 5 depending on Gore). So that's not exactly the most scathing indictment you can give, even assuming it's true.
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Dec 8, 2015 19:56
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The Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 Presidential elections, and Bush only won the popular vote in 2004 thanks to a highly unusual and manipulated set of circumstances... And yet the Democratic party is in crisis and most of it's followers seem to have trouble even acknowledging that fact. The party's probably got a firm hold on the White House in 2016, but even that isn't guaranteed, and it's position almost everywhere else is incredibly tenuous.
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Dec 8, 2015 20:00
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Helsing posted:And yet the Democratic party is in crisis and most of it's followers seem to have trouble even acknowledging that fact. The party's probably got a firm hold on the White House in 2016, but even that isn't guaranteed, and it's position almost everywhere else is incredibly tenuous. Which State legislatures that the Democrats control do they look tenuous in?
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Dec 8, 2015 20:03
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I'm not a close enough follower of state politics to comment intelligently on which Democratic controlled legislatures are currently the most vulnerable, but the overall numbers really speak for themselves.quote:If you want to understand how destructive the 2010 and 2014 midterm elections were to the long-term downballot prospects of the Democratic party, all you need to do is look at this chart via Pew's terrific Fact Tank site. Democratic control of the Presidency isn't sustainable in the long run if they are almost totally shut out of legislative power both federally and in the states. Also they're never going to regain control of the House of Reps if they are consistently shout out of most state governments. Meanwhile the Republicans, to counter their declining demographic base of support, will enact ever more overt forms of voter suppression, and they'll try to retain the loyalty of blue collar whites by making ever more racist xenophobic appeals. You'd better hope the Democrats don't lose control of the Supreme Court -- and that the Democrats can actually get a decent judge appointed when the new, take-no-prisoners GOP controls the senate -- or you guys are really hosed.
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Dec 8, 2015 20:38
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That doesn't really answer my question though. At best, all you've shown is that the Democrats had a coalition that was much weaker than it appeared to be, which everyone & their mother knows by now. What is also known is that Democrats have the reputation of being "spineless". This is partially due to them having a coalition that's not very strong. You'll notice that in the past 4 years or so, there's been a lot stronger coordination within the party. This isn't accidental.
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Dec 8, 2015 20:40
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I don't know what to tell you. For reasons that aren't clear to me you keep trying to act like it isn't a big deal that, in the aftermath of two disastrous wars and an economic crisis, all of which were direct byproducts of the modern GOP's unhinged ideology (an ideology that's been adopted by a number of Dems as well since the 1980s), the main result has been for the GOP to grow more radical and, for the most part, more electorally successful. And those GOP successes also put them in control of the ultra-important process of 1) nominating federal judges and 2) controlling how districts are designed for the House of Representatives. While you aren't quite saying it explicitly, you keep making posts that seem to imply you don't think this is a big deal. I don't know if you're just trying to be contrarian or if you genuinely don't think this is cause for alarm. But if the last decade wasn't enough to destroy the brand of the GOP then your country is hosed.
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Dec 8, 2015 20:46
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Helsing posted:The Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 Presidential elections, and Bush only won the popular vote in 2004 thanks to a highly unusual and manipulated set of circumstances... Actually the party has acknowledged it; hence the return to the 50 state strategy in 2016. The issue is that due to demo-graphical changes red states are getting redder and blue states are getting bluer.
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Dec 8, 2015 20:59
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Certainly Hillary wants to replicate Obama's / Howard Dean's strategy of having a strong grassroots army of door knockers and envelope stuffers in all 50 states but that's not going to solve the Democrat's bigger problems, which are 1) the fundraising infrastructure that the GOP has put in place to win state elections and 2) the fact that the Democratic party is riddled with contradictions, not least of which is their reliance on big money donors, which puts them at a structural disadvantage compared to the GOP. The fact Hilary is going to be the nominee is, in and of itself, a pretty clear indication of how poorly prepared the Democrats are. Hilary can win if enough frightened minorities and women turn out to elect her but she embodies practically every bad political decision the Democratic party has taken since the 1980s, painted over with a thin veneer of Sheryl Sandburg style Lean In feminism.
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Dec 8, 2015 21:35
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This thread is now about the US election.
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Dec 8, 2015 21:41
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Take a look at the first post in the thread. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3752544
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Dec 8, 2015 21:43
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Dazzling Addar posted:This is a curious assumption for a whole slew of reasons, not the least of which being that it renders the entire concept of a phobia meaningless. Emotions are not inherently irrational. I admit I'm not a linguist or a philosopher, but I was under the impression that emotions were like, the bare bones example of the irrational. As logic would be of the rational. I'm not saying emotions are necessarily wrong or bad (although fearing/hating a vast group of people because of the actions of a few obviously is). Phobos literately means "fear", I really don't see how I'm rendering it meaningless. Please explain some of the "slew", not intending to be snarky I'm legit interested to know if I'm understanding what is rational/irrational correctly.
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Dec 8, 2015 21:45
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Starshark posted:This thread is now about the US election. It's hard to maintain a clean division between a discussion of Islamophobia and a discussion of the US election, for reasons that should be clear.
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Dec 8, 2015 21:52
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blowfish posted:it would be funny if trump wins, turns out to have totally lied in his campaign and goes on to be a generally sane (for a republican) president Well, he did mention in one of his books that he always goes as far as he possibly can in a negotiation so he can bargain downwards to get what he really wants. So, I doubt his ultimate plans are to ban all Muslim immigration and build a giant wall along Mexico's border, but probably something down the line. I'm more worried by the fact that he's encouraging the racist elements of American culture.
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Dec 10, 2015 17:32
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ComradeCosmobot posted:"But the people you tortured are going to be in eternity in Heaven. You are very deceived by Satan," said a state worker identified as Denise Slader. "Your mind has been taken over, brainwashed, and you have nothing but hate." Fredericksburg is for lovers Cross-post Moltke posted:http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...04413.video.mp4
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Dec 10, 2015 17:39
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It's really amazing seeing people recycle the same horseshit racial and ethic hatred over and over, it's the biggest damnation of the information and social networking age that even in 2015 people can relive 1800's anti-Chinese/irish/whatever, 1930's anti-Semitism, 1950's Racism, cold war anti-Russian, and the cycle keeps repeating. I will say this and I will keep repeating it, the current climate of hate and insanity against american citizens who's chosen faith is islam in the US has been aided and abetted by unrestrained propagation of the media and entertainment industry against arabs and muslims in general. What we're seeing today Is the natural result of decades of political propagation and agenda driven targeting of muslims by the news cycles and Hollywood, who have gotten away with things they could've never gotten away with had their targets been African American or American jews. It's really unbelievable that a political frontrunner can spout what he's spouting in 2015 and not be immediately put away as a dangerous throwback, the fact that there's even a DEBATE is a huge political setback for the united states as a functional society.
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Dec 10, 2015 17:56
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I'll just repeat myself and say that people are, have always been, and always will be idiots and assholes.
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Dec 10, 2015 18:52
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Al-Saqr posted:It's really amazing seeing people recycle the same horseshit racial and ethic hatred over and over, it's the biggest damnation of the information and social networking age that even in 2015 people can relive 1800's anti-Chinese/irish/whatever, 1930's anti-Semitism, 1950's Racism, cold war anti-Russian, and the cycle keeps repeating. I will say this and I will keep repeating it, the current climate of hate and insanity against american citizens who's chosen faith is islam in the US has been aided and abetted by unrestrained propagation of the media and entertainment industry against arabs and muslims in general. What we're seeing today Is the natural result of decades of political propagation and agenda driven targeting of muslims by the news cycles and Hollywood, who have gotten away with things they could've never gotten away with had their targets been African American or American jews. I'm more worried than I have ever been about targeting of a minority in this country, all signs point to an uptick in vigilantism and targeted killing very soon.
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Dec 10, 2015 19:06
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SedanChair posted:I'm more worried than I have ever been about targeting of a minority in this country, all signs point to an uptick in vigilantism and targeted killing very soon. Agreed. It bothers me that I seem to be powerless to do anything about it but vote and argue with those close to me who agree with Trump's poo poo.
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Dec 10, 2015 19:09
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I agree that the uptick in racist rhetoric in both the US and Canada is worrying, and I'm afraid that the community may have gone a bit "boy who cried wolf" over supposed Islamophobia with things like the Charlie Hebdo cartoons. It's pretty clear that there is real, legitimate Islamophobia to deal with (drawing the prophet doesn't count, though) and it's sadly looking more and more likely that it will turn violent eventually.
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Dec 10, 2015 19:13
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White Supremacist Says His Website Traffic Spikes When Trump Makes News posted:White Supremacist Says His Website Traffic Spikes When Trump Makes News
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Dec 10, 2015 19:20
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