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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...campaign=buffer Virginia man is applauded for screaming ‘every Muslim is a terrorist’ during public meeting on mosque expansion plans http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/18/hate-crimes-against-muslims-rise-in-us.html Hate Crimes Against Muslims Rise In US A new FBI report says hate crimes against Muslims are on the rise. As Republican officials wring their hands about letting Muslim refugees in the country, hate crimes against Muslims in this country are actually on the rise in the U.S. While number of hate crimes against Muslims is relatively small, it has gone up over the last year, according to new data the FBI released this week. Hate crimes in all other categories went down; attacks on Muslims bucked the trend. https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...da0c_story.html Leading Candidates for president call for things such as a registry of Muslims, shutting down mosques, allowing in only Christian refugees, compared Muslims to dogs. http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/right-wing-pundit-muslim-refugees-are-human-garbage Pundits compare Muslim refugees to garbage http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/20/politics/paris-attacks-trump-carson-bush-muslims-refugees-mosques/ Muslim Americans: Current political climate worse than after 9/11 It was never this bad, not even after 9/11. That's what many Muslims and Arab-Americans are saying about the tenor of comments made by presidential candidates on down to local officials about how to treat members of their community in the wake of ISIS' rampage in Paris last Friday. Over the past week, GOP presidential front-runner Donald Trump said he would consider compelling Muslims to register in "databases" and that some mosques might be shut; fellow Republican candidate Ben Carson compared some Syrian refugees to "rabid dogs," and Democrat David Bowers, mayor of Roanoke, Virginia, evoked the internment of Japanese in WWII to explain his anti-refugee policy. "We are operating in an atmosphere of hysteria and fear," said Ibrahim Hooper, national communications director for the Council on American Islamic Relations. "I have never seen it like this, not even after 9/11." Muslim and civil rights activists attribute the charged environment not only to the horrific attacks in France and 14 grinding years of the war on terror at home and abroad. They also blame it on the fact that the latest attacks come during a political campaign that dovetails with years of strife and inflammatory rhetoric on the immigration issue. Today, with no one to unite the Republican Party and put a lid on its more outspoken elements, the loudest, and in some cases ugliest, voices are at times prevailing. quote:What the hell is wrong with us? I thought we were capable of being better than this. One violent incident (after hundreds of thousands of people in the middle east have been murdered by westerner's bombs and their drones) and we throw a massive parnoid tantrum, denying the Americanness and even humanity of American Muslims and falling in to the same trap we did with Jewish and Japanese during world war 2 with respect to Syrian refugees. It is truly heartbreaking to see more and more people defending this. I think its critical we point out that people have been running around gunning down school children in mass, shooting up theaters, and pumping church folk of historically black churches full of led and no one bats an eye. Yet this legislation and hostility from our trusted leaders comes with so little hesitation.
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Nov 22, 2015 01:31
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Mandy Thompson posted:What the hell is wrong with us? I thought we were capable of being better than this. One violent incident (after hundreds of thousands of people in the middle east have been murdered by westerner's bombs and their drones) and we throw a massive parnoid tantrum, denying the Americanness and even humanity of American Muslims and falling in to the same trap we did with Jewish and Japanese during world war 2 with respect to Syrian refugees. It is truly heartbreaking to see more and more people defending this. It turns out people are still assholes, and will act accordingly when slightly inconvenienced.
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Nov 22, 2015 01:36
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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My Muslim friend is currently so stressed out by the things people have been saying and doing that she hasn't eaten properly in days. 
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Nov 22, 2015 01:54
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Its so depressing. As a white, American Christian woman, I am never asked to answer for Christian terrorists like Matt Hale or Eric Robert Rudolph, the KKK or The Army of God. I am never asked to justify my American-ness, or have to face insinuations that I am more loyal to England than the united states. I am appalled that the GOP is getting so much clout out of this. They have shown again and again that they are the party of the bigoted. Half of America seems to consistently vote for bigotry: homophobia and Islamophobia. As someone who has dealt with hate myself, the Muslim community has my sympathies. If I wasn't living in a tiny apartment and facing homelessness I would open what home I have to a refugee.
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Nov 22, 2015 02:19
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Welcome to 'Murica. If we don't have something to hate, everything breaks down.
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Nov 22, 2015 02:45
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It's not Islamophobia if they're really out to get you.
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Nov 22, 2015 04:23
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blowfish posted:It turns out people are still assholes, and will act accordingly when slightly inconvenienced. "People are assholes" isn't very explanative. Why is it worse now than during 9/11? What have we been doing as a culture that led to this, and what can we do to combat it? Furthermore shrugging your shoulders and going "welp people suck," isn't an option some people have.
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Nov 22, 2015 04:38
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Wheeee posted:It's not Islamophobia if they're really out to get you. Fortunately, practically all of them are not.
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Nov 22, 2015 04:48
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For as much as conservatives love to masturbate and self-fellate over constitutional rights, I don't see many people standing up for the first amendment in this case. Funny, that.
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Nov 22, 2015 05:14
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Sharkie posted:"People are assholes" isn't very explanative. Why is it worse now than during 9/11? What have we been doing as a culture that led to this, and what can we do to combat it? A steady stream of terrorist attacks is what's happened. This isn't an American phenomena by the way.
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Nov 22, 2015 05:23
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What metric are we using to determine things are "worse"? I'm not denying things are bad (they are) but how much of it is because what's going on now is fresh in our minds in the moment and that post-9/11 hysteria was 14 years ago and a lot of it has washed from our memories?
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Nov 22, 2015 05:29
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Sharkie posted:"People are assholes" isn't very explanative. Why is it worse now than during 9/11? What have we been doing as a culture that led to this, and what can we do to combat it? since the 2009 recession the job market hasn't really recovered for dumb rural white people, so
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Nov 22, 2015 05:57
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Putting aside the fact that hating refugees and minorities that are considered 'other' has been a tragic tradition in the United States for centuries, ( see the laws passed against Chinese at the turn of the 20th century for example) the reason why it's still possible for this kind of old fashioned hatred to occur is due to the fact that Islam and Muslims ( more specifically Arabs who happen to be Muslim) have been targeted to an incredible degree In Blatantly racist and demoning propaganda from the media industries in the west ( especially Hollywood) for decades without any kind of blowback or reprimand that would have happened had they targeted others like for example African Americans or Asians, or even at one point Jews. The thing that is so dangerous about racist propaganda and demonising depictions in popular culture is that their poison seeps in slowly, given enough time enough people are going to have that poison inform their world views of their fellow citizens and if that racist trash isn't put under control or punished, sooner or later someone out of that pool of ignorance and hate is going to be someone who can actually make decisions in the country, in a country where popular opinion matters, that's an extremely dangerous position to be in if the masses are filled horseshit poison and hate. At the risk of beating a dead horse, It took DECADES for European anti Semitism, through uncontrolled fairy tales and racist trash being shoveled and insemenated into popular media, to build up to a point where hitler can have a willing audience for his monstrosity. When Americans are shoveled poo poo by Hollywood and the mass media for decades about a religion being portrayed as their literal enemy for decades, MUCH more than other flavor of the week foes, then you have a situation where you can find an audience for this insanity, because unlike other races and creeds, hating Muslims and being racist towards them is popularly accepted, what you're seeing today is the natural conclusion of having that insanity go unabated.
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Nov 22, 2015 06:03
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Wheeee posted:It's not Islamophobia if they're really out to get you. .....well, considering the majority of their victims are other Muslims...
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Nov 22, 2015 06:25
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:For as much as conservatives love to masturbate and self-fellate over constitutional rights, I don't see many people standing up for the first amendment in this case. It is their right to say this horrible poo poo, but it is also everyone's right and duty to call them out on the racist, hate speech. Nobody does that second part except on the internet or to their cat.
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Nov 22, 2015 07:05
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Mr Hootington posted:It is their right to say this horrible poo poo, but it is also everyone's right and duty to call them out on the racist, hate speech. Nobody does that second part except on the internet or to their cat. I suspect that in context Dunkle may be talking about the freedom of religion clause.
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Nov 22, 2015 07:13
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I suspect that in context Dunkle may be talking about the freedom of religion clause. Ah crap. I always forget those two biggies are actually one amendment. Change racist, hate speech to religious intolerance then.
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Nov 22, 2015 07:30
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Er, the First Amendment only protects against interference with the free exercise of religion. It doesn't guarantee you won't be discriminated against for belonging to a particular religion. It isn't my constitution, and even I know that. Jesus.
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Nov 22, 2015 11:46
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RagnarokAngel posted:What metric are we using to determine things are "worse"? I'm not denying things are bad (they are) but how much of it is because what's going on now is fresh in our minds in the moment and that post-9/11 hysteria was 14 years ago and a lot of it has washed from our memories? Presidential hopefuls were not openly calling for a specific database/ID'ing of Muslims, even immediately after 9/11. That is a fair bit worse.
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Nov 22, 2015 14:04
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Mandy Thompson posted:What the hell is wrong with us? Rather than think logically about the problems facing society, the path of least intelligence/greatest ignorance is to blame outsiders/'The Other'. Being inherently unknowable, it's very easy for them to appear monolithic and malicious, in the same way that you may see some threatening animal lurking in what is just a harmless shadow. Once this perspective is established, it is difficult to break, because of confirmation bias. You'll seek out what already confirms your suspicions and ignore those that contradict it. 'Muslims condemn paris attacks' Well that's just what they want us to think, secretly they support it, etc. This is just one expression of the same problem you see throughout human history, one what will continue so long as people fail to love & understand each other unconditionally. The fact that the main candidate being discussed here, Donald Trump, was able to transition seemlessly from degrading Mexicans to degrading Muslims should have been a tip-off about the psychology at play here.
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Nov 22, 2015 14:12
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:For as much as conservatives love to masturbate and self-fellate over constitutional rights, I don't see many people standing up for the first amendment in this case. Most conservatives have no problem keeping a straight face as they loudly beat their chest and espouse the freedoms and rights we all share. Except for those people. gently caress them.
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Nov 22, 2015 14:26
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Sharkie posted:"People are assholes" isn't very explanative. Why is it worse now than during 9/11? What have we been doing as a culture that led to this, and what can we do to combat it? People don't really handle well the idea that literally anyone around them, at any time, could possibly pull out a gun or a bomb and kill them, and neither they nor the authorities can do a drat thing about it. When combined with genuine fear, it's actually quite difficult to handle; either you spiral into deep paranoia, or you rationalize it somehow. And one of the most comforting ways to rationalize it is to imagine that only people with some kind of common factor that's easily distinguishable with minimal observation would do that, and that everyone who doesn't have that factor is safe. Once you make that assumption, you feel like it's possible to take control of your chances and avoid such attacks by avoiding people with that factor or focusing government surveillance and official discrimination against them. Who feels more comfortable with their world - the person who suspects everyone on the street as a potential mugger, or the person who crosses the street whenever they see a black person coming and lets out a sigh of relief whenever they see a cop arresting a black person but feels completely comfortable and safe around whites? The latter is a racist, but they feel more in control, because by racially profiling an entire race of people as probable criminals, they feel like they are more able to keep themselves safe by avoiding criminals. 9/11 was a one-time thing, and it it happened in a situation that was relatively easy to control - the inside of a plane. Beefing up airport security made up a considerable part of our coping mechanism for that. Attacks in theaters and malls cant be handled so easily, and terrorists conquering territory and forming their own state is something most people don't know how to contextualize, and Iraq being in such trouble so soon after our decade of freedom-spreading ended opens up a lot of finely-aged colonialist reasonings for racism as well. Also, it happened at a different phase of the election cycle - Bush was less than a year into his term, and by the time the 04 elections started we were already balls-deep in both Iraq and Afghanistan (and even then the R primary wasn't a massive clownshow like now). Also, I think you might be forgetting just how deep the effects of 9/11 were, after 14 years in the post-9/11 world. There was a lot of bigotry and racial profiling, major expansions of the surveillance state under the excuse that "we'll only spy on Muslims", non-judicial punishments like the no-fly list and drone bombings, and more.
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Nov 22, 2015 14:38
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Main Paineframe posted:People don't really handle well the idea that literally anyone around them, at any time, could possibly pull out a gun or a bomb and kill them What country are you from? Anyone who's in Somethingawful's typical age range and from the USA grew up in an age where every trip to school could end with a mass shooting. The vast majority of gen Y/millennials don't give a poo poo about the threat of a shooting any more than they care about the threat of rain.
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Nov 22, 2015 15:12
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rudatron posted:Rather than think logically about the problems facing society, the path of least intelligence/greatest ignorance is to blame outsiders/'The Other'. Being inherently unknowable, it's very easy for them to appear monolithic and malicious, in the same way that you may see some threatening animal lurking in what is just a harmless shadow. Once this perspective is established, it is difficult to break, because of confirmation bias. You'll seek out what already confirms your suspicions and ignore those that contradict it. 'Muslims condemn paris attacks' Well that's just what they want us to think, secretly they support it, etc. Very articulate description of all bad ideology. Including the left.
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Nov 22, 2015 15:38
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Smudgie Buggler posted:Er, the First Amendment only protects against interference with the free exercise of religion. It doesn't guarantee you won't be discriminated against for belonging to a particular religion. Discrimination and free exercise are not really compatible.
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Nov 22, 2015 15:48
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Noun Verber posted:What country are you from? Anyone who's in Somethingawful's typical age range and from the USA grew up in an age where every trip to school could end with a mass shooting. The vast majority of gen Y/millennials don't give a poo poo about the threat of a shooting any more than they care about the threat of rain. This isn't true at all. Even if all of the school shootings happened in (eg) the state of Colorado I don't think Colorado children would "not give a poo poo" about it happening.
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Nov 22, 2015 15:49
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Also, the current racist wave is building on top of the prior one. Once you've accepted religious profiling, spying in mosques, banning building of mosques in some locations, imprisonment without trial, and torture, there are only so many empty squares left on the fascist bingo card.
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Nov 22, 2015 15:52
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Smudgie Buggler posted:Er, the First Amendment only protects against interference with the free exercise of religion. It doesn't guarantee you won't be discriminated against for belonging to a particular religion. It depends on how the Supreme Court feels at any given time, but in general this really isn’t true.
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Nov 22, 2015 16:06
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Smudgie Buggler posted:Er, the First Amendment only protects against interference with the free exercise of religion. It doesn't guarantee you won't be discriminated against for belonging to a particular religion. Not according to established precedent: quote:The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion to another . . . in the words of Jefferson, the [First Amendment] clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between church and State' . . . That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.
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Nov 22, 2015 16:11
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Noun Verber posted:What country are you from? Anyone who's in Somethingawful's typical age range and from the USA grew up in an age where every trip to school could end with a mass shooting. The vast majority of gen Y/millennials don't give a poo poo about the threat of a shooting any more than they care about the threat of rain. School shooters are easy to rationalize away. They're not random strangers (except at colleges) so you know who doesn't fit in - the weirdoes, social misfits, and mentally ill, who the mind can section off as people to be avoided. And, naturally, racial profiling still works as a way to classify some kids as more potentially dangerous than others, as evidenced by the case of the homemade clock. Also, schools are fairly regimented systems where the number of people in one place at one time is carefully controlled, privacy rights are heavily restricted, safety drills exist and are regularly practiced, and authority figures are everywhere. Hell, some schools send people through metal detectors now. In a mall or a subway station, on the other hand, you're surrounded by hundreds of total strangers, with people constantly entering and leaving from every direction, no one knows what to do if there's a disaster, security is minimal, and so on. Even then, racial profiling reigns supreme as a coping mechanism. Just look at the recent terror wave in Israel, where at one point during a shooting attack, an angry crowd lynched an innocent person believing he was a terrorist (for no apparent reason other than that he was black).
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Nov 22, 2015 16:49
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Ddraig posted:Discrimination and free exercise are not really compatible.
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Nov 22, 2015 18:34
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https://twitter.com/ZahidArabFox4/status/668166456459157505
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Nov 22, 2015 19:44
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I think a lot of the rhetoric comes from: 1) the way that Fox and other right wing institutions have behaved ever since a black Democrat was elected to the White House has primed a large audience for hard Right xenophobia 2) bad economic conditions exacerbate everything else 3) The fact that these attacks occurred in the middle of the Republican primary with a Democratic administration in Washington. The institutional Right had more of an incentive to dampen racist or xenophobic rhetoric because doing so gave Bush more room to manoeuvre. 4) The success of ISIS, which is scarier than Al Qaeda since it actually holds territory 5) The GOP has undergone structural changes thanks to the Tea Party, Citizens United, the growth of right wing media etc. The result is that party elites are having a lot more trouble keeping out guys like Donald Trump and Ben Carson. The success of these candidates has put pressure on every other candidate to move rightward. Remember that before Trump there was no indication that immigration would be such a central focus of the GOP primary. Trump, even if he losses, has changed the terrain upon which the battle for the GOP nomination is being fought. asdf32 posted:Very articulate description of all bad ideology. Including the left. If you have axes to grind then why don't you start your own thread instead of trying to change the topic of this one?
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Nov 22, 2015 19:47
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rudatron posted:A weak organized left that has abandoned the working class as a foundation, in conjunction with a series of economic crises and failed recoveries ('jobless recoveries' are effectively failures). "Behind every fascism, there is a failed revolution". Do you think there is any hope, long term?
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Nov 22, 2015 22:50
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Presidential hopefuls were not openly calling for a specific database/ID'ing of Muslims, even immediately after 9/11. That is a fair bit worse. This may be a side effect, though. What I mean is that the problem is that crazy assholes are apparently legitimate candidates now. These same idiots would have said the same things then, they just weren't running for president. Not that you are wrong, and not that either is a good thing
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Nov 22, 2015 23:21
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While the title of this thread is "Islamophobia", it seems that the OP and several of the replies are very much focused on the US. Do you all want me to change the thread name to "Islamophobia in the US", in order to help newcomers realize this focus, or would you rather the discussion were more general?
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Nov 23, 2015 00:44
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computer parts posted:Not according to established precedent: That extract from Everson doesn't mean what you think it means. The Establishment Clause does not restrain government from discriminating against members of a particular religion unless the primary purpose of doing so is to inhibit the practice of that religion, or to aid another. Don't get me wrong: the US has other laws that do constrain government from discriminating against members of a particular religion in a general sense. But the First Amendment is not one of them.
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Nov 23, 2015 00:47
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Absurd Alhazred posted:While the title of this thread is "Islamophobia", it seems that the OP and several of the replies are very much focused on the US. Do you all want me to change the thread name to "Islamophobia in the US", in order to help newcomers realize this focus, or would you rather the discussion were more general? Hell people are burning refugee homes here, but at least they haven't started blocking the exits yet.
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Nov 23, 2015 00:57
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Absurd Alhazred posted:While the title of this thread is "Islamophobia", it seems that the OP and several of the replies are very much focused on the US. Do you all want me to change the thread name to "Islamophobia in the US", in order to help newcomers realize this focus, or would you rather the discussion were more general? the discussion can be more general. I posted US examples because they are in my backyard and I was thinking about them but Islamophobia anywhere is messed up
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Nov 23, 2015 01:08
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Mandy Thompson posted:the discussion can be more general. I posted US examples because they are in my backyard and I was thinking about them but Islamophobia anywhere is messed up Yeah, I think it's getting worse in Canada too and we don't have a lot of the specific aspects that Helsing pointed to as contributing to the current climate of Islamophobia in the US. Right now we have: 1) ISIS attacked a thing in Europe 2) Our new Prime Minister (who campaigned on helping refugees) wants to help refugees Thankfully, I don't think it's a majority opinion, but I'm guessing the election loss made the people who were already bigoted particularly angry and vocal about being racist. Even my parents are bitching a whole bunch about terrorists coming in by pretending to be refugees, and it's just such utter nonsense but I can't get them to see reason. I'm guessing the difference is I knew a lot of people from the Levant when I lived in Montreal, so I view them as normal, decent people instead of some sort of alien menace that hates freedom. Admittedly, I knew more Lebanese people than Syrians, but to be honest they seemed very culturally similar (more than they were with Persians or Gulf Arabs, let's say). Anyway, we've had a mosque set on fire, a few random assaults on women wearing hijab, and various other bullshit, and it's just very Not Good. I'm totally atheist and pretty vocal about it, but it's very wrong to take your disagreements with any religion out on the people who practice it as they wish to (unless they are doing something bad as a result, which the very, very great majority of Muslims are emphatically not).
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Nov 23, 2015 01:31
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