|
LividLiquid posted:You're arguing that the culmination of an entire season whose story culminates in The Doctor realizing he's gone too far involved The Doctor going too far, and that this isn't earned? I fundamentally disagree but it's midnight so I'll write it up tomorrow
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 00:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 18:53 |
|
|
And More posted:They establish at some point that he actually remembers all of it. I just watched it, I don't remember that bit. Must have missed it. (Hey! Perfect excuse for a re-watch! (Like an excuse is necessary.)) Now, are you sure he remembers it, or something he figured out? I can't see how the memory was transferred between any his "copies", since the vessel containing that memory was literally fried in bringing in the next "copy" (powering the transporter). And/or, could it be a False Memory? As in, he worked out what happened, tried to grasp the enormity of it, but now he thinks he remembered it (especially since "he" (his previous "him"s) lived through it.) I don't know if I'm being at all clear here. (It also doesn't help that his memory was altered drastically at the end of the episode.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:04
|
|
|
RunAndGun posted:I just watched it, I don't remember that bit. Must have missed it. (Hey! Perfect excuse for a re-watch! (Like an excuse is necessary.)) Eh, they once rebooted the universe and remembered some of it. Rory kinda remembered being a plastic roman for 2000 years. In DW there is more to memory than meat.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:08
|
|
|
My read on it was that he realised from his calculations he'd been there billions of years, but from his own personal perspective, it can only have been a few days. However, the weight of what he did for those billions of years still burdens him, even if he is unaware of it personally from his point of view.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:09
|
|
|
The entire situation in the confession dial was a metaphor.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:12
|
|
|
Finished listening to BF's Light at the End and goddamn, that was so much better than Day of the Doctor. I love multi-Doctor stories and I enjoyed DotD but hearing the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth Doctors all in one story was a lot of fun.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:15
|
|
|
CobiWann posted:
Very nice write-up. Just this bit - shouldn't Tumblr have shutted up before? We already had a male regenerate into a female. Yes, it was off-screen, but Missy is no minor character... Though, if we're counting, this was the first time it was gender/race regenerate into another gender/race, so there's that (again, for people counting...) RunAndGun fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Dec 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:15
|
|
|
Angela Christine posted:Eh, they once rebooted the universe and remembered some of it. Rory kinda remembered being a plastic roman for 2000 years. In DW there is more to memory than meat. True, but that Rory was the same Rory for the entire 2000 year span. There was no continuity break, unlike the Transporter Copies...
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:16
|
|
|
RunAndGun posted:I just watched it, I don't remember that bit. Must have missed it. (Hey! Perfect excuse for a re-watch! (Like an excuse is necessary.)) When he has his "can't I just lose?" freakout near the end: "But I can remember it, Clara. You don't understand, I can remember it all. Every time." Kind of ironic given how things ended up  EDIT: He remembers because the teleporter is fuelled by his energy! What is memory but energy flashing about in the brain? double edit: if you believe in the soul, the Doctor's soul is being transferred from the old one to the new one each time. Could not the soul have some capacity for memory? 2house2fly fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Dec 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:18
|
|
|
Oooh could he be pretending to forget Clara so he can play gotcha at the end of the universe? Y'know, so Moffat has something to do with the cake he's not eating yet?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:22
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Even that first 15 minutes looks fantastic and seems to be setting the stage for something very interesting. The fact it's a red herring that throws the typical,"WORLD ENDING PROPHECY" stuff aside in favor of an extremely intimate story of the Doctor/Companion dynamic is simultaneously maddening and refreshing. It throws the entire season into a new context, too, because with the benefit of hindsight we know that all the rather hamhanded series arc stuff was quite deliberately there to build up to the realization of just how far the Doctor and Clara were willing to go for each other. Doesn't make that stuff any less ham-handed, or retroactively make those individual stories any better, but it does add an interesting context to the entire season and this one episode in particular. And for that to happen, you do kinda need that first 15 minutes to happen the way they do. The thing I love about this is that, this is the first (that I can think of) multi-series Master/Missy plot, with her making sure these two stay together. (Yes, as hands off a plot that you can have, but to get on-screen credit for it, though...) RunAndGun fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Dec 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:22
|
|
|
He remembers because it was not literally happening to him, he did not literally die to fuel the creation of a clone.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:23
|
|
|
ewe2 posted:Oooh could he be pretending to forget Clara so he can play gotcha at the end of the universe? Y'know, so Moffat has something to do with the cake he's not eating yet? You are literally making up bad stories you think Moffat will write to prove your point that he's a bad writer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:23
|
|
|
Dabir posted:He remembers because it was not literally happening to him, he did not literally die to fuel the creation of a clone. Indeed he did not. In fact, he does not exist. The Doctor is a fictional character, played by an actor named Peter Capaldi.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:26
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:When he has his "can't I just lose?" freakout near the end: "But I can remember it, Clara. You don't understand, I can remember it all. Every time."  The only way a memory can exist is if it is a precise, specific pattern in the brain consisting of... blah blah blah. Or, maybe you're right.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:28
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:Finished listening to BF's Light at the End and goddamn, that was so much better than Day of the Doctor. I love multi-Doctor stories and I enjoyed DotD but hearing the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth Doctors all in one story was a lot of fun. I mean, it's GOOD, and fun, but the plot is traditional as all hell and the Doctor's don't bicker or interact nearly enough. Nick Briggs was not the right writer for a 50th Special but he did a very workmanlike job elevated by the performances and ceremony. The 1963 trilogy (5 and 6's parts in particular) were in my opinion much better stories than Light. And Day is a goddamn masterwork. It gets better every time I watch it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:32
|
|
|
I watched Enlightenment and enjoyed it. It had some great lines and ideas. It flubs the execution sometimes, but not enough to ruin anything. Eternals are a cool idea for a villain.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:47
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:I mean, it's GOOD, and fun, but the plot is traditional as all hell and the Doctor's don't bicker or interact nearly enough. Nick Briggs was not the right writer for a 50th Special but he did a very workmanlike job elevated by the performances and ceremony. I'm new to Big Finish audios and this is only the 3rd one I've listened to and the first time hearing any of the older Doctors other than Eight so that probably has something to do with why I was so jazzed after listening to Light. You're right about there not being enough inter-Doctor bickering! One of the things I can't get over during Day of the Doctor is how morose Tennant's portrayal of Ten seems at times compared to the energy of Smith.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 02:49
|
|
|
Dr. Gene Dango MD posted:I watched Enlightenment and enjoyed it. It had some great lines and ideas. It flubs the execution sometimes, but not enough to ruin anything. Eternals are a cool idea for a villain. The sailing ship reveal gets a lot of love (with good reason!) but the image that always sticks out to me from that story is the Eternal staring in creepy fascination at Tegan from the other side of the scanner 
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 03:09
|
|
|
The Keys of Marinus is not a very good story
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 03:14
|
|
|
CobiWann posted:
Yeah. A bit longer than fifteen minutes, I would say, but I agree. All of the Gallifrey stuff was background noise to the Clara stuff, and I wish it had been de-emphasized even more than it had been, but it's otherwise just a goodbye between two good friends as portrayed by two very competent actors. I also wish the Doctor hadn't shot a person into regenerating, but I like my goofy show about defeating violence with the power of love and a technobabble ball of string to be without its hero firing guns, and lots of people are just never going to agree with me. 2house2fly posted:Indeed he did not. In fact, he does not exist. The Doctor is a fictional character, played by an actor named Peter Capaldi. This joke is always going to be funny to me, like when during some panel when a fan asked "So why do you think the Doctor always comes back to Earth?" and Peter Capaldi just replied "Budgetary reasons." Bicyclops fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Dec 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 03:37
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:I also wish the Doctor hadn't shot a person into regenerating, but I like my goofy show about defeating violence with the power of love and a technobabble ball of string to be without its hero firing guns, and lots of people are just never going to agree with me. I'm always keen on The Doctor breaking his own rules. Unfortunately it's like when Superman starts killing people; It doesn't feel in character. It's reserved for rare defining moments. So in that way I feel like it's warranted because of the stakes. Bicyclops posted:This joke is always going to be funny to me, like when during some panel when a fan asked "So why do you think the Doctor always comes back to Earth?" and Peter Capaldi just replied "Budgetary reasons." That's pretty awesome/funny. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 04:06
|
|
|
josh04 posted:The problem isn't 'how to have a companion leave'. The problem is 'how to have a companion who is the Doctor's equal leave' and not compromising on that is pretty difficult. Saying "I love having adventures!" at the start of each episode doesn't make her the Doctor's equal.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 04:59
|
|
|
"Gonna spend the next hour getting owned relentlessly by the Master, wow I'm just like the Doctor!" "Oops, stuck in the wrong time zone for this entire episode. Guess I'd better sit here and wait for the Doctor to fix everything. We're equals btw" "I know, this time I'll actually try to do something Doctor-ish!" *commits suicide*
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 05:06
|
|
|
RunAndGun posted:Very nice write-up. Just this bit - shouldn't Tumblr have shutted up before? We already had a male regenerate into a female. Yes, it was off-screen, but Missy is no minor character... There's still a large group who refuses to believe that Missy is really the Master since we saw no on screen regeneration.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 05:08
|
|
|
Lottery of Babylon posted:"Gonna spend the next hour getting owned relentlessly by the Master, wow I'm just like the Doctor!" With the third doctor it was a couple of hours!
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 05:10
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:There's still a large group who refuses to believe that Missy is really the Master since we saw no on screen regeneration. Those people are dorks! 
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 05:22
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Those people are dorks! Stupid dorks! If Guy Gardner can be a woman ANYONE can.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 05:40
|
|
|
Mind Loving Owl posted:Also, references to new media will be punished by death. I want a mid-2000s companion who constantly makes references to myspace, yim and hotmail. Come on, Dr. Who, poke fun at yourself. The old show used to do that. IceAgeComing posted:The Keys of Marinus is not a very good story No, no it is not. But on the other hand it is easy to watch, even good stories (the Daleks, the Aztecs, etc) can get really boring when you have thirty minutes of Ian trying to crawl through a cave or Barbara trying to do something that everyone knows has no chance of working. The single episode nature of Marinus makes it an excellent candidate for modern viewing when compared to other early Who serials. Cliff Racer fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Dec 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 07:34
|
|
|
Lottery of Babylon posted:Saying "I love having adventures!" at the start of each episode doesn't make her the Doctor's equal. The Doctor disagrees.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 07:45
|
|
|
Yeah, Marinus is certainly not a good story overall, but I quite dig the multiple settings. There's also something wonderful about Ian getting arrested and the Doctor showing up out of nowhere to defend him despite: A. He's not a lawyer. B. He is completely unfamiliar with the law of the planet they're on anyway. C. He doesn't even know the details of the crime Ian has been accused of.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 07:59
|
|
|
Ooh, since I'm up for nerding about something, this will be a good opportunity to talk about what me and my friend have recently started. It's only recently that we've discovered we're both massive Who nerds, so we thought of this bright idea for every weekend or so to watch the ENTIRE series. And maybe Torchwood, if we've really gone crazy. We only started recently, so we're just reaching the end of Hartnell's 1st season, but for someone who's only watched the revival stuff about five or six times, this has been very fascinating, so I figured, hey, might as well give my thoughts. Overall, we've liked what we've seen, well, most of it. We love Hartnell, he's such a piece of poo poo to everyone and everything, it's amazing. Susan is alright, but most of the time she screams loudly and is used as the audience surrogate, so sometimes she'll just ask someone about something or other, have it explained, then just go "cool" and walk off screen. Very strange. Ian is a very typical science guy, quite enjoyable when he butts heads with Hartnell, but man, he's gotten pretty strong over the course of the season, must be all that walking in the desert. Or something. And then Barbara is there, I guess. Sometimes she does something, other times she falls over, or just isn't really in the story at all. Still, a good dynamic with Ian, but she's just there most of the time. I can give my thoughts on the individual stories as we go through them, nothing too substantial, I'm not really a reviewer, I've enjoyed most of what I've seen, especially of the new series, 12 and Clara have been amazing and I think it's a good time for her to leave. But overall, while nothing aside from Heaven Sent really sticks out, aside from the pretty bad Zygon episodes, this has been a really good series. Bring on the next one.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 08:26
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:That's a meaningless comparison. Want me to make a dozen where the opposite is true? knock yourself out, buddy. my point was that when writing something relatively short, like an episode of tv, the less elements you load into a story the more you can focus on telling the story beats you have in a good way. this isn't some crazy theory I came up with, but accepted on a general level. You can always find examples that disprove this, but as general writing advice it holds up. Moffat has a habit of throwing in plotlines or asides in his stories that don't add anything to the episodes at all. Also using Pynchon and Lynch to disprove the point is a bit off, since they are considered outsider masters of their crafts. rules don't apply to Lord Lynch & Pynch, man! Attitude Indicator fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Dec 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 08:50
|
|
|
Crosspeice posted:We love Hartnell, he's such a piece of poo poo to everyone and everything, it's amazing. Hartnell really was just utterly tremendous as the Doctor. Watching him change from a huge, selfish rear end in a top hat to a proactive force for good over the course of his three seasons was a real treat. Are you going to watch reconstructions of the missing episodes too? It should be somewhat easier than my own complete rewatch from a few years back since a number of missing stories have had animated reconstructions produced for DVD sets.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 08:58
|
|
|
Cliff Racer posted:I want a mid-2000s companion who constantly makes references to myspace, yim and hotmail. Come on, Dr. Who, poke fun at yourself. The old show used to do that. Upon watching Heaven Sent, and thoroughly enjoying it, my mum commented that if the episode were produced in the early 60's, we'd have seen every second it took the Doctor to dig that hole.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 08:59
|
|
|
I just watched Hellbent again and noticed that the prophecy says, "He will destroy a million, million hearts to heal his own". I guess only the doctor applies.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 09:18
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Are you going to watch reconstructions of the missing episodes too? It should be somewhat easier than my own complete rewatch from a few years back since a number of missing stories have had animated reconstructions produced for DVD sets. Yep, if freely available. We enjoyed Marco Polo quite a bit despite the screenshot nature, though the guy who did the reconstruction did put a lot of care into it. It's a shame there are missing episodes, but at least nothing was completely lost. Most of the stories we've seen have been pretty good, the ones that stick out are The Daleks (yeesh, spelunking and dalek politics are pretty bad) and The Edge of Destruction. Those 9 parts combined felt like so much more, it was really, really bad. Since then, things have been looking up, Keys of Marinas was a bit ehh, but the location changing kept things fresh. Next up, hopefully this weekend, is the Reign of Terror. And then maybe another story or two, it's pretty random how much we watch.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 09:25
|
|
|
Also liked how the Doctor asked, "Clara? Clara who?" Before she went and had her own adventures with a Tardis and a Sonic something, all she needs is psychic paper.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 10:13
|
|
|
Be warned, the animated reconstruction of Reign of Terror is.... not good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 10:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 18:53 |
|
|
Angela Christine posted:Eh, they once rebooted the universe and remembered some of it. Rory kinda remembered being a plastic roman for 2000 years. In DW there is more to memory than meat. The run through of the loop we see in Heaven Sent was very clear that was not the first, and that the Doctor had no memory of the previous thousands of loops.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2015 10:25
|
|
