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Tippis posted:Was that the guy who made a youtube play-through/commentary of EP1 with Romero? He also made a really good Doom map - Arcadia Demade e: the run button is important because there are some weird user made maps where you need to walk certain jumps, you can't run them.
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Dec 8, 2015 22:38
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newmans_owned posted:idk about you guys but i play thief gold with only gameplay and display resolution improvements from tfix. i keep the graphics as-is because i wanna preserve that early dark engine feeling Yes! Exactly! because the blocky environments coupled with th sound direction brings an amazing athmosphere! I would never trade that immersion for any newer hd remake ever. Same with deus ex too. I don't understand why hd remakes are necessary when the games (thief gold in particular) are almost timeless. sure the papier maché-like watchguards look wacky but there is more going on in thief than blocky polygons. The athmosphere is dense and the game brings out a feel that have yet to be replicated. It's one of my favourite games ever, not in spite of the blocky graphics but because of them.
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Dec 8, 2015 22:41
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Jordan7hm posted:He also made a really good Doom map - Arcadia Demade This just makes me sad because it reminds me of Bioshock 2 multiplayer which was actually pretty fun but such a loving massive pain in the rear end to find matches for because of loving GFWL  And now you can't even play it even if you own it because again, stupid loving GFWL. They should be required to release open-source server code if they take down their own servers or something, that's bullshit. 40 years from now you'll be able to play all the Doom or Quake you want but tons of games from like 2005-2010 will have lovely DRM that makes them unusable.
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Dec 8, 2015 22:42
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Curdy Lemonstan posted:Yes! Exactly! because the blocky environments coupled with th sound direction brings an amazing athmosphere! I would never trade that immersion for any newer hd remake ever. Same with deus ex too. I don't understand why hd remakes are necessary when the games (thief gold in particular) are almost timeless. sure the papier maché-like watchguards look wacky but there is more going on in thief than blocky polygons. The athmosphere is dense and the game brings out a feel that have yet to be replicated. It's one of my favourite games ever, not in spite of the blocky graphics but because of them. The thing about these early engine games is that visual technology has advanced so, so far in the last 20 years, but sound design really hasn't and overall composition technique and direction hasn't really gone anywhere. Doom has a brilliant soundtrack and some pretty good sound effects and a cool atmosphere overall, and that makes up for the low fidelity of the graphics, because imagination can fill in those details just fine. Conversely, you can have really amazing visual fidelity, but if you're sloppy on the scoring and sound effects and you have crappy direction then the game is going to be bland no matter how many polygons you throw in. One modern game that has absolutely phenomenal direction and atmosphere is Bloodborne, and that's a game that is so rooted in tiny details that at a lower graphical quality it actually wouldn't work as well. Modern games can still succeed through immensely thick levels of atmosphere, but they have to actually put the  in them to get there.Actually, bringing up Bloodborne (and From Software), one game that I actually think proves the opposite of this is Dark Souls. Dark Souls is, to me, a singularly hideous game. I hate how it looks. It's a fine game, I like it a lot, but it's such an ugly mish-mash of environments and visual styles and moods and they don't really mesh together well to me at all, even though it's a perfectly competently made game. To me, that's probably the chief modern example of how graphics don't make the game.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:00
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Zaphod42 posted:And now you can't even play it even if you own it because again, stupid loving GFWL. They should be required to release open-source server code if they take down their own servers or something, that's bullshit. Bioshock 2 uses Steamworks now. Multiplayer works fine iirc.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:03
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SwissCM posted:Bioshock 2 uses Steamworks now. Multiplayer works fine iirc. Well poo poo, I'll have to boot it up and try it out after work. I knew some games updated to rip out GFWL but I didn't think Bioshock 2 was. I swear I tried it awhile ago... Probably just nobody playing these days.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:05
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It's a good excuse to replay Bioshock 2, which is a genuinely Good Game.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:06
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Yep, the multi was never anything too amazing but I love the environments of Rapture. Also Minerva's Den is one of the best DLCs ever made.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:09
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BattleMaster posted:The speed and the fact that most monsters especially in Doom II fire slower projectiles inadvertently created beautiful gameplay that's more like a first-person bullet hell game in levels with some open space so lol at anyone who thinks the game is fast enough without running. Serious Sam is more of a first person bullet hell than anything. You cannot tell me that the end of Metropolis in TFE or the last maps in TFE and TSE are anything but a bullet hell game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVcVVN7AUGg
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Dec 8, 2015 23:18
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closeted republican posted:Serious Sam is more of a first person bullet hell than anything. You cannot tell me that the end of Metropolis in TFE or the last maps in TFE and TSE are anything but a bullet hell game. I get what you're saying, but watching that video I didn't see anything even approaching a proper 'bullet hell'. It just looks like a normal SHMUP. To be a Bullet Hell you've got to absolutely fill the screen with bullets so there's more bullets than there are blank space. There's gotta be so many bullets you can't even keep up with all of them and depending upon the pattern of the bullets is the only way to survive. Things like Gradius or Darius Gaiden are not bullet hells, which is what I would compare that serious sam footage to. That or like, Robotron or Geometry wars, like Doom.  That's a bullet hell. And frankly it just wouldn't work in first person. Robotron is a better comparison.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:24
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newmans_owned posted:idk about you guys but i play thief gold with only gameplay and display resolution improvements from tfix. i keep the graphics as-is because i wanna preserve that early dark engine feeling Yeah, I'm the same with a lot of older games like this. Some people seem to swear by using HD texture packs and models etc. but that just ruins the whole aesthetic. Thief in particular works well because your imagination just fills in the blanks, especially because the incredible sound design really puts you in a particular mindset the second the level starts. gently caress those spiders though. Jesus Christ between Thief and SS2 I never want to see another videogame spider ever again
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Dec 8, 2015 23:53
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Convex posted:Yeah, I'm the same with a lot of older games like this. Some people seem to swear by using HD texture packs and models etc. but that just ruins the whole aesthetic. Thief in particular works well because your imagination just fills in the blanks, especially because the incredible sound design really puts you in a particular mindset the second the level starts. eric brosius' work is a huge inspiration for me, but especially so in thief. the music and soundscapes he did still stands up to this day, and it does an excellent job of transporting you into thief's world.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:05
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spongeh posted:Yea that's the one i had in mind in specific, but I can't remember much of D2 past map01-07, downtown, and 30-32 so there are probably a couple more. I feel exactly the same about Doom 2, except add in Barrels of Fun.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:28
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I'm pretty sure you have to make a running jump in MAP13 ("Downtown") to get the yellow key, too.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:32
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Zaphod42 posted:I get what you're saying, but watching that video I didn't see anything even approaching a proper 'bullet hell'. It just looks like a normal SHMUP. Obligatory
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Dec 9, 2015 01:33
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Oh shiiiiiit I stand corrected, now that's a bullet hell fps (literally touhou lol) https://youtu.be/ypocx6IFRNI?t=3m43s https://youtu.be/BF2MBaXYRjQ?t=10m25s I'm surprised it works at all, but it kinda does. You can more or less see what's going on. Kinda wanna play this now Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Dec 9, 2015 |
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Dec 9, 2015 01:43
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All I know about Touhou Doom is TerminusEst13 playing through it with Demonsteele, from which I could glean that the writing is remarkably painful and level design generally unremarkable (except for this one bit where you're expected to flee from an implacable enemy in a pitch-black maze, which sounded like fun).
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Dec 9, 2015 01:47
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Shadow Hog posted:All I know about Touhou Doom is TerminusEst13 playing through it with Demonsteele, from which I could glean that the writing is remarkably painful and level design generally unremarkable (except for this one bit where you're expected to flee from an implacable enemy in a pitch-black maze, which sounded like fun). The whole point is the custom enemies that fling insane numbers of projectiles, so demonsteele would probably mess that up.
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Dec 9, 2015 01:53
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Zaphod42 posted:The whole point is the custom enemies that fling insane numbers of projectiles, so demonsteele would probably mess that up. Yeah, for all the gnashing and wailing about how Brutal Doom destroys the purity of [Insert map-pack here], that seems like an even better way to mess up balance.
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Dec 9, 2015 02:02
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Granted, although the stages still looked a lot like fairly linear corridors and the dialog is gonna be terrible even without extra mods clogging up the pipeline.
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Dec 9, 2015 02:06
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Oh man, I couldn't place why I knew the name Touhou, and then Shadow Hog reminded me of Term's Demonsteele playthrough. Got that wad seems like negative fun. I sat through the whole video, though. You guys made it so I had good company.
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Dec 9, 2015 02:10
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Zaphod42 posted:The whole point is the custom enemies that fling insane numbers of projectiles, so demonsteele would probably mess that up. Dominic White posted:Yeah, for all the gnashing and wailing about how Brutal Doom destroys the purity of [Insert map-pack here], that seems like an even better way to mess up balance. I assure you, it is incredibly bad even without DemonSteele. I didn't like it at all. Still, it's always best to judge for yourself rather than take someone else's word for it, so here. https://copy.com/hBPH9gZqbtyUhbcy - Load in GZDoom, author emphasized not ZDoom. Zaphod42 posted:That's a bullet hell. And frankly it just wouldn't work in first person.
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Dec 9, 2015 02:14
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Some of the custom Serious Sam 3 maps are pretty bullet hell already. They've added so many projectile shooting enemies that a few of the maps are walls of lasers and rockets.
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Dec 9, 2015 02:15
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TerminusEst13 posted:I'm combining this with the previous suggestion and taking it as a personal challenge. Bullet hell sanic WAD? Godspeed you good sir
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Dec 9, 2015 03:27
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Talking about bullet hell-esque WADs brings Stronghold: On the Edge of Chaos to mind and some of its enemies, especially fusion spiders and catharsi: The pink shots are way slower than most attacks I've seen in doom WADs and don't do a lot of damage if you only get hit by a couple so you can weave right through them at long range and it feels great. Things like that, the way infighting is turned off and Stronghold's nature as an invasion WAD give it a real shmup-ish feeling. Stronghold's pretty great but that isn't really what it focuses on, there isn't a lot of experimentation with super-slow-projectile enemies. I think it could look really nice if the shots were semi-transparent, larger than their hitbox, bright in the middle - it would really intuitively tell the player that they're fine as long as they stay away from the brighter parts of the attack pattern. Fusion spiders have some of that but it's still a little hard to read. The guy who made Touhou Doom posted it on some touhou forum way back when, and in my search for decent fangames I was one of the first to play it back when it was a 5 map proof-of-concept boss rush. There was a crazy fight with a bunch of fly-spheres so you got to helixstrafe as a whole bunch of projectiles flew by, it was alright! Then he made the first few maps of the actual WAD and I was out. TerminusEst13 posted:I'm combining this with the previous suggestion and taking it as a personal challenge. Basically what I'm trying to say is that there's possibly an untapped market for bullet hell wads so if you make Touhou Doom But Better (tm) or something like that you would make me very happy.
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Dec 9, 2015 05:39
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I'd settle for Hotline Phobos myself That's one game that needed a sanic button for sure
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Dec 9, 2015 05:42
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Do you guys recommend Return to Castle Wolfenstein?
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Dec 9, 2015 12:25
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Castor Poe posted:Do you guys recommend Return to Castle Wolfenstein? It's good
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Dec 9, 2015 12:26
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RyokoTK posted:The thing about these early engine games is that visual technology has advanced so, so far in the last 20 years, but sound design really hasn't and overall composition technique and direction hasn't really gone anywhere. Doom has a brilliant soundtrack and some pretty good sound effects and a cool atmosphere overall, and that makes up for the low fidelity of the graphics, because imagination can fill in those details just fine. Conversely, you can have really amazing visual fidelity, but if you're sloppy on the scoring and sound effects and you have crappy direction then the game is going to be bland no matter how many polygons you throw in. One modern game that has absolutely phenomenal direction and atmosphere is Bloodborne, and that's a game that is so rooted in tiny details that at a lower graphical quality it actually wouldn't work as well. Modern games can still succeed through immensely thick levels of atmosphere, but they have to actually put the Oh I totally agree, but I do think that dark souls is a beautiful game with all the impressive vistas. Demons souls has better color design though, and that makes the athmosphere even better than in dark souls. The dark engine was apparently a clusterfuck of a level design environment, where you subtracted small cubes from a larger cube instead of building a bunch of cubes from the ground up. Basically you start with a big cube and then carve out the level within the cube. I think that is very interesting, and it probably impacted the level design in meaningful ways. The levels are claustrophobic and wonky, there are seldom any perfect symmetri in the game (unlike skyrims perfect prefab-rooms dungeons), and I think it worls to the game's benefit. Nowadays you build a room and spend the rest of the time in 3ds max, building debris and chairs and what not. The incredible detail of these things makes it hard to decide where clipping ends and where it starts, and the result is drastically reduced freedom pf movement. There are many factors involved of course, but ill take sparse geometri-like levels made in gtkradiant any day over some over designed mess with barely any vertical movement like call of duty.
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Dec 9, 2015 12:32
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Castor Poe posted:Do you guys recommend Return to Castle Wolfenstein? Its major stealth section is a pain in the rear end, but other than that, it's a pretty good old nazi-shooting romp.
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Dec 9, 2015 12:33
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Castor Poe posted:Do you guys recommend Return to Castle Wolfenstein? Curdy Lemonstan posted:The dark engine was apparently a clusterfuck of a level design environment, where you subtracted small cubes from a larger cube instead of building a bunch of cubes from the ground up. Basically you start with a big cube and then carve out the level within the cube. I think that is very interesting, and it probably impacted the level design in meaningful ways. The levels are claustrophobic and wonky, there are seldom any perfect symmetri in the game (unlike skyrims perfect prefab-rooms dungeons), and I think it worls to the game's benefit.
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Dec 9, 2015 12:36
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Castor Poe posted:Do you guys recommend Return to Castle Wolfenstein? Hell yeah, three things to remember though: 1. The start is pretty bland and you ask yourself: "will there ever be another full auto rifle than the mp40?" Yes, many MANY more options, have faith. 2. Always aim for the head 3. Grenades are poo poo except for when ypu venture down into the catacombs, where you life will become infinitely easier if you pretty much use grenades as your primary weapon. 4. The flamethrower is great.
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Dec 9, 2015 12:37
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The Kins posted:It's a pretty fun game! Not perfect by any means, but for the most part it's enjoyable enough a romp. UE2 did the same. I think even UE3 gave you the option of using subtractive, but defaulted to additive. In many ways, this allowed the older UEs to do some pretty fancy tricks that were difficult to get right until the tech had moved forward and there was more GPU oomph to simply not care any more. If nothing else, it almost entirely removed the opportunities to create hall-of-mirror errors or to fall through the world. You could still do achieve both with some effort by effectively bugging out either the renderer or the BSP tree with bad brush placement. Fun times.
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Dec 9, 2015 13:26
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newmans_owned posted:eric brosius' work is a huge inspiration for me, but especially so in thief. the music and soundscapes he did still stands up to this day, and it does an excellent job of transporting you into thief's world. I love his work. Thief has one of the most memorable intros of all time and the ending buildup and final guitar riff made a strong and satisfying finale even better. I even liked his crazy drum 'n bass in SS2. It's a little offputting at first but the first time its frantic tunes connect with a mad scramble to escape a gibbering monstrosity it's moody as hell.
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Dec 9, 2015 13:28
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Castor Poe posted:Do you guys recommend Return to Castle Wolfenstein? It's surprisingly varied for a shooter from it's era, and also quite tough. The SS-ladies wih machine guns in the castle, though  And the mutants seem way too tough until you notice you have a lot of panzerfaust ammo to dispose
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Dec 9, 2015 14:02
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Thanks guys  I just reached the village and am really digging it so far! I never thought I'd play a game with a knife more ridiculously overpowered than the one from Code Veronica.
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Dec 9, 2015 15:46
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Return to castle wolfenstein introduced the best Nazi villain of all time though. 
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Dec 9, 2015 15:47
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Klaus88 posted:Return to castle wolfenstein introduced the best Nazi villain of all time though. Oh, Hitler was a real dude
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Dec 9, 2015 16:06
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Curdy Lemonstan posted:Hell yeah, three things to remember though: Ubersoldats are complete bullshit though and the first "proper" Ubersoldat marks the point where the game ceases to be any fun. E: Well I guess the dam and chateau are also pretty cool. gently caress the last unit though. Klaus88 posted:Return to castle wolfenstein introduced the best Nazi villain of all time though. Deathshead is just some rear end in a top hat in RTCW though, he only really gets interesting in Wolfenstein 2009 and (especially) The New Order. Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Dec 9, 2015 |
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Dec 9, 2015 16:07
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RTCW is a pretty great quake3-era shooter.The campaign was surprisingly decent and the multi was extremely good. I still haven't played that weird blue wolfenstein game yet.
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Dec 9, 2015 16:14
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