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Bolverkur posted:I've always had a big problem with how recent the Empire's uprising was and how Jedi were so prominent only a few decades ago. Which is why I'll run my campaign in a setting where the Empire has existed for centuries, as well as the Emperor, with the Clone Wars being something totally unrelated to how the Empire was formed. It puts the Old Republic and the Jedi Order in the very distant, mythical past, where it belongs in my opinion. The issue with that is that it doesn't hash with the fact that Luke's dad was a Jedi Knight (and openly about it too, as he fought as one in the Clone Wars per Obi-Wan in ANH), and that the Clone Wars happened before the rise of the Empire. That kinda forces a certain timeline on you. But yeah I agree, the Empire would seem like a much better badguy if it weren't so short-lived. The Old Republic stood for thousands of years, and the Empire as it's depicted in the movies really only ruled the majority of the Galaxy for like... 30? And continued to hold onto parts of it for maybe 130, in the form of the Remnant and then the Fel Empire, which were both more like successor states than anything else.
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Dec 9, 2015 15:44
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The Third Reich lasted a bit less time than the Empire, though. They are still the go-to "irredeemably evil regime".
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Dec 9, 2015 16:33
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homullus posted:- Darth Vader both "betrayed and murdered" Luke's dad, and is his dad Spoiler that poo poo dude! I actually do like the idea of exploring where the Jedi went wrong. If I ever start my campaign back up, the party had just met a Jedi who was not a fighter and he will have his theory that the Jedi got too involved in the Government and Politics.
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Dec 9, 2015 16:42
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I feel Lucas wanted to avoid telling the really obvious, elegant plot so instead we got this weird nonsense thing. Like, a massive army of clones show up, the republic is forced into more and more desperate measures to stave them off. The republic cannot maintain it's principles in the face of this and turns towards more extreme measures, with the jedi resisting and being eliminated except for the handful who turn evil. Darth. Eventually we find out that as per the existing plot the emperor was behind the whole thing. Boom, I'm bad at story.
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Dec 9, 2015 17:04
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ShineDog posted:Like, a massive army of clones show up, the republic is forced into more and more desperate measures to stave them off. The republic cannot maintain it's principles in the face of this and turns towards more extreme measures, with the jedi resisting and being eliminated except for the handful who turn evil. Darth. Eventually we find out that as per the existing plot the emperor was behind the whole thing.
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Dec 9, 2015 17:28
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Drone posted:The issue with that is that it doesn't hash with the fact that Luke's dad was a Jedi Knight (and openly about it too, as he fought as one in the Clone Wars per Obi-Wan in ANH), and that the Clone Wars happened before the rise of the Empire. That kinda forces a certain timeline on you. What am I misremembering from these movies, why is it so certain from the original trilogy that the Clone Wars happened before the rise of the Empire?
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Dec 10, 2015 02:47
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Luke says "My father didn't fight in the clone wars, he was a navigator on a spice freighter." Then Obi Wan says "I was once a jedi knight like your father, before the dark times. Before the empire." So that's probably where people were getting that impression.
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Dec 10, 2015 04:12
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I think the empire from republic in a short space of time can work, it just needed to be done differently. Things in the republic were never shown to be particularly bad. For the empire to arise out of the public it needed to either be completely on it's knees to the point that people would accept ANYTHING that could get them to some kind of stability, or the republic had to basically have become the empire without the name, probably both. You can still kind of declare that to be the case in the films as they exist, but it's never really shown since the films never really explore beyond coruscant where people are happily going to the waterball opera thing during a galactic apocalypse war. Basically the clone wars needed to be shown as a time of utter desperation and sheer galaxy spanning destruction, which is how I'll be playing it in my Fate starwars game - The empire was embraced because it brought some measure of stability and was able to bring about reconstruction where there had been a blasted hellscape before. Aggressive and punitive laws? People would be more likely to accept that if the stormtroopers are also bringing cranes and food shipments to the planet that was a rubblefield before. The rebellion comes after that, when the reconstruction is over but the punitive laws remain.
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Dec 10, 2015 14:50
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ShineDog posted:I think the empire from republic in a short space of time can work, it just needed to be done differently. Lucas had always cited the rise of the Nazis to power in Weimar Germany as an inspiration for the rise of the Empire, but he never really followed through with the background concept. For example, some of the key factors to the rise of the Nazis to power were: -Having lost a devastating war and having very harsh peace conditions foisted upon them - both the psychological and economical effects. -A government with very little popular support and legitimacy -A strong urban legend of the nation's rulers (and previous wartime rulers) as having "stabbed <the people> in the back" -A nationalist, racist, militarist, revanchist faction stirring up trouble and blaming the country's problems on a historically scapegoated minority -A charismatic figure leading said faction with no "real" counterpart from the mainstream factions, aside from... -...guy who is seen as the father of your nation, who dies with no similar statesmanlike successor. -A period of economic recovery followed by a dramatic downturn again (1929), overturning any progress and reinforcing the idea that the system is inherently broken. -Possible false flag terror operations (burning of the Reichstag) Contasted with the key factors to the rise of Palpatine: -Uh.... the galaxy is old and sorta corrupt, I guess? -A highly decentralized galactic government anyway, so who really cares how corrupt Coruscant is? -The previous chancellor is perceived as a weak, effete, establishment opera lover, and people want someone more Reaganlike? -Uh.... an invented enemy and a war that the Republic never really had a chance of losing anyway? -A senate that has to grant emergency powers to get stuff done instead of just writing legislation themselves? -Uh.... the galaxy is old and sorta corrupt, I guess? Somethingsomething trade disputes, somethingsomething taxation?
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Dec 10, 2015 15:05
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Beach posted:Luke says "My father didn't fight in the clone wars, he was a navigator on a spice freighter." Thanks, now I understand why I am interpreting this differently. Obi-Wan says: quote:"Your father's light saber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age. For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Empire. I always took this as something that happened far in the past, when the Old Republic existed. I never assumed that either Obi-Wan or Anakin lived during that time, and Obi-Wan's tone makes this feel like the distant past, not the recent one. It's a legend. Nothing in the original trilogy (as far as I can see) says that the Clone Wars happened before the Empire or that it somehow contributed to the Empire existing.
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Dec 10, 2015 16:23
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Bolverkur posted:Thanks, now I understand why I am interpreting this differently. Obi-Wan says: It's just more economical to have them connected. If you have a prequel trilogy that has to explain how the Empire came about, how the Clone Wars came about, and how Anakin became Vader without any of those things being related, you have a handful, and have to show a lot of story elements that simply have nothing to do with each other. They're just . . . happening at the same time. Like, yes, I am sure you can do it, especially if you have more than three movies' worth of space, but the original trilogy is all about the smallness of family and the connection to the Force. Your reading isn't impossible from a "Star Wars is a separate and infinitely-detailed universe" perspective, but it was very unlikely from a "Star Wars is three movies, with just three episodes before episode 4 to explain that episode" perspective.
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Dec 10, 2015 17:16
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Bolverkur posted:Thanks, now I understand why I am interpreting this differently. Obi-Wan says: "Your father" is the key bit here. Luke had to been fathered 20ish years ago, so his father had to be alive then, but not able to raise him. The words do suggest distance, but its a hard biological limit. Nothingtoseehere fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 17:21
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Luke's references to the Jedi and the clone wars sound like half-remembered legends, even though it's inarguable that the fall of the Jedi was only a generation ago. I think this is mostly explained by Luke being a farmboy raised in the middle of nowhere on a nowhere planet.
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Dec 10, 2015 17:54
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Halloween Jack posted:Luke's references to the Jedi and the clone wars sound like half-remembered legends, even though it's inarguable that the fall of the Jedi was only a generation ago. I think this is mostly explained by Luke being a farmboy raised in the middle of nowhere on a nowhere planet. That plus keep in mind that the average galactic citizen would know gently caress all about the Jedi. Even if there were 100,000 Jedi actively cruising around the Galaxy, the odds of ever running into one and seeing their Force use in action is infinitesimally small.
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Dec 10, 2015 17:56
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I see of it how people tell stories of the Navy SEALs or the Foreign Legion today. People know a bunch of tales about how amazing they are but almost no one ever sees them in action. All we know are stories and legends even tho they are an active force at this moment. Now expand that over billions of worlds and a generation of distance from active action.
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Dec 11, 2015 00:01
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  Goons Krysmphoenix and Neowyrm, keep out! This concerns the IRL game that you're a part of!Want some potential goon advice on my campaign: So I'm going to be running "Legends of the Hidden Jedi Temple" for my group tomorrow, need some suggestions for rooms or challenges, or ways to adapt the old Nick gameshow to a tabletop game! PM me or post it here under spoiler bars! jivjov fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 00:35
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jivjov posted:Goons Krysmphoenix and Neowyrm, keep out! This concerns the IRL game that you're a part of! The Shrine of the Silver Monkey Lizard
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Dec 11, 2015 00:39
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cptn_dr posted:The Shrine of the Silver Monkey Lizard Already planned that one, complete with it requiring an absurdly difficult check to complete. I was thinking like Difficulty 4 and burning a Destiny Point on it.
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Dec 11, 2015 00:41
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Just make it so they have to assemble it with force telekinesis.
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Dec 11, 2015 00:43
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LordNat posted:I see of it how people tell stories of the Navy SEALs or the Foreign Legion today. People know a bunch of tales about how amazing they are but almost no one ever sees them in action. All we know are stories and legends even tho they are an active force at this moment. Now expand that over billions of worlds and a generation of distance from active action. Maybe kind of like how a lot of people in the Roman Empire would have known about a particular mystery cult and invoked it from time to time, but a faction in the legions might have been serious worshipers. Idunno.
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Dec 11, 2015 00:52
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Alright, after nearly spoiling myself, I'm just going to unbookmark this thread until tomorrow's game then. It better be a good ones!
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Dec 11, 2015 01:12
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We need more Adversary decks. I want a Beasts, Creatures and Monsters deck, and maybe a Ships and Vehicles deck...
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Dec 11, 2015 01:13
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I think the fundamental problem with the prequels was that it was a whole lot of "tell, don't show." If we could actually see and experience the destruction that the clone wars were supposedly wreaking on the populace, then maybe Palpatine's consolidation would seem much more reasonable.
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Dec 11, 2015 01:18
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jivjov posted:
I'm assuming you already have plans for Temple Guards?  or maybe doing the whole medallion system they had on the show? Give them one for free, have a guard jump out and take it as a warning to watching out. Then maybe hide 2 halfs of another somewhere in your temple. This assuming you already have a map everything planned out as well?
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Dec 11, 2015 02:07
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HOOLY BOOLY posted:I'm assuming you already have plans for Temple Guards? I wasn't quite sure how to implement the Temple Guards...but I think I'll try to make Medallions work somehow. And yeah, I've got a full map and whatnot drawn up, working on individual rooms now. Basically trying to make all sorts of skill checks important somewhere in the Temple.
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Dec 11, 2015 02:22
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nothing to seehere posted:"Your father" is the key bit here. Luke had to been fathered 20ish years ago, so his father had to be alive then, but not able to raise him. The words do suggest distance, but its a hard biological limit. Yoda is something crazy like 900 years old and sustained by the force. Luke's dad could reasonably have been a couple of hundred years old when Luke was born. That's plenty of time for the clone wars and a lengthy collapse of the Republic if you need one. In terms of fitting it all into 3 pre-quel movies you could have the first movie have Anakin fighting in the clone wars as an adult or as an apprentice like Obi-wan was for Qui-Gon-Jin. That gives you two movies for the fall of the Jedi and spares everyone the horror of nine-year old Anakin hitting on barely teenage Padme. Best of all - no Gungans! (They get wiped out before this version of the first movie without Anakin to save them.) Edit: jivjov posted:I wasn't quite sure how to implement the Temple Guards...but I think I'll try to make Medallions work somehow. And yeah, I've got a full map and whatnot drawn up, working on individual rooms now. Basically trying to make all sorts of skill checks important somewhere in the Temple. You could do the Temple Guards like the Dagobah cave visions. Have whoever sends them in warn them not to kill stuff the way Yoda warns Luke and if the players fight them it turns out the Temple Guards are themselves. Hand out dark side points every time they fight to keep the medallions from the guards and/or have any wounds they inflict show up on their own bodies. LLSix fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 03:11
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LLSix posted:Yoda is something crazy like 900 years old and sustained by the force. Luke's dad could reasonably have been a couple of hundred years old when Luke was born. That's plenty of time for the clone wars and a lengthy collapse of the Republic if you need one.
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Dec 11, 2015 04:12
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Still say the best version I ever heard was the Star Wars prequels played like Space Cops. Have Annikin the new rookie and Obi-wan the existing Knight. Add some drama, done explosive, and maybe an honest to god love triangle. The movie makes itself.
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Dec 11, 2015 04:21
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Everblight posted:Yoda is of an unknown but presumably non-human species. Humans might still, even with Jedi enhancements, have normal-ish lifespans. It's irrelevant, though, because Amidala is not a Jedi (may not even be force-sensitive) and she meets Anakin when she is young and gives him children within 30 years. If I remember right, there's hardly anything about Luke's mom in the original trilogy.
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Dec 11, 2015 04:28
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She died when Leia was "Very young" . She was "Sad, mostly".
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Dec 11, 2015 04:31
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Halloween Jack posted:A caveat to that, though: At the end of the briefing before they attack the Death Star, the rebels say "May the Force be with you" together. Now, I can see how Jedi religion might have a much bigger influence on the Rebel Alliance than on the general population, but it implies that the Jedi philosophy is not totally secretive and obscure. I kind of see it as the same as them saying something like Semper Fi. It is just a saying they use. Bail Organa had ties to the Jedi in the past so he went with one that had meaning to him and resonates with the people oppressed by the Empire.
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Dec 11, 2015 04:46
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I just got a buddy of mine to record me an Olmec-alike intro for my game. Interesting fact: Dee Bradley Baker was the voice of Olmec, well before voicing the clones in Clone Wars
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Dec 11, 2015 04:46
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I'm thinking of grabbing my bud some Force and Destiny stuff for his birthday/Christmas and I had a question. Are the Specialization decks just cards of the talents from the trees in the main book? Would the beginner box, the core book, and some extra dice be a reasonable start?
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Dec 11, 2015 22:45
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Canopus250 posted:Would the beginner box, the core book, and some extra dice be a reasonable start? That's what I bought, and I'm running a F&D campaign now with no trouble. So it works pretty well in my experience.
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Dec 11, 2015 23:07
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LLSix posted:Yoda is something crazy like 900 years old and sustained by the force. Luke's dad could reasonably have been a couple of hundred years old when Luke was born. That's plenty of time for the clone wars and a lengthy collapse of the Republic if you need one. I think the key point is that Luke and Leia are just shy of twenty when Episode IV occurs; it doesn't matter whether Anakin was 25 or 250 when he and their mother conceived them, it was around twenty years before. Unless he was getting it on in the full Vader suit, and unless Obi-wan literally stole Vader's kids instead of taking Anakin's, that means the Empire's formation and Anakin's turn to the dark side was always about 20 year or a little less before episode IV.
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Dec 11, 2015 23:11
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Canopus250 posted:I'm thinking of grabbing my bud some Force and Destiny stuff for his birthday/Christmas and I had a question. Are the Specialization decks just cards of the talents from the trees in the main book? Would the beginner box, the core book, and some extra dice be a reasonable start? Don't get the specialist decks, but if you are a DM the adversary decks are totes boss.
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Dec 11, 2015 23:13
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Servetus posted:I think the key point is that Luke and Leia are just shy of twenty when Episode IV occurs; it doesn't matter whether Anakin was 25 or 250 when he and their mother conceived them, it was around twenty years before. Unless he was getting it on in the full Vader suit, and unless Obi-wan literally stole Vader's kids instead of taking Anakin's, that means the Empire's formation and Anakin's turn to the dark side was always about 20 year or a little less before episode IV. That is a very good point.
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Dec 11, 2015 23:45
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So a friend from back home started an online game and sent me the info so I could play. The setting was 'alternative universe where when Vader offered to rule as father and son, Luke took the offer. The empire is nominally less racist and horrible, but is still oppressive and totalitarian. You are part of the fractured rebellion two years after Vader and Luke's coup' So I asked what I should play to some friends, and they were like 'ask if you cna just play Leia and kick your dad and brothers rear end'. The GM said yes. So now I am playing Leia apparently.
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Dec 12, 2015 00:15
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KittyEmpress posted:So a friend from back home started an online game and sent me the info so I could play. The setting was 'alternative universe where when Vader offered to rule as father and son, Luke took the offer. The empire is nominally less racist and horrible, but is still oppressive and totalitarian. You are part of the fractured rebellion two years after Vader and Luke's coup' In the event that your brother shows up, be aware he is very likely to bring up how goddamn weird it was that you kissed him that one time
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Dec 12, 2015 05:56
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HOOLY BOOLY posted:I'm assuming you already have plans for Temple Guards?
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Dec 12, 2015 06:06
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