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I just wish they add some more medium ships. Not quite rich enough to do high risk stuff in a Python or Clipper, and the vulture and Asp have started feeling stale. We have plenty of low end, under 5 millions ships, a good selection of 20+ millions high end ships with the new ones, and literally nothing between 5 and 20 millions besides the Asp and vulture (actually vulture is 4 millions but you get the point) Especially considering that fitting costs easily skyrocket for the bigger ships, a good Asp will cost you 30 millions - a good clipper is about 70
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Dec 9, 2015 20:06
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Nah let's have like 10 ships with the same guns that cost ~500k or less, that seems fun and cool somehow
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Dec 9, 2015 20:12
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TorakFade posted:We have plenty of low end, under 5 millions ships, a good selection of 20+ millions high end ships with the new ones, and literally nothing between 5 and 20 millions besides the Asp and vulture (actually vulture is 4 millions but you get the point Yea, this range is dead and annoying. I wish there was more in this price range. All I use is the Vulture which is boring because you just pew pew laser and outturn everything.
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Dec 9, 2015 20:16
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The FAS is sort of in that class, 19 mil hull and around 90 mil (or even less) to A-rank.
Rectus fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Dec 9, 2015 |
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Dec 9, 2015 20:23
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Rectus posted:The FAS is sort of in that class, 19 mil hull and around 90 mil (or even less) to A-rank. Is the FAS any good? Especially when compared to the Vulture? I know the Federal Dropship is supposed to be meh.
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Dec 9, 2015 20:29
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Mitchicon posted:Is the FAS any good? Especially when compared to the Vulture? I know the Federal Dropship is supposed to be meh. I haven't tried it myself yet, but people have been saying that it's good. It's almost a straight upgrade from the Vulture apart from its lovely shields. It gets a lot of hull though, so with the hull tanking improvements and Bi-weave shields coming in 1.5 the defenses should be solid as well.
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Dec 9, 2015 20:33
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Rectus posted:It gets a lot of hull though, so with the hull tanking improvements and Bi-weave shields coming in 1.5 the defenses should be solid as well. What hull changes are being made?
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Dec 9, 2015 20:35
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Mitchicon posted:Is the FAS any good? Especially when compared to the Vulture? I know the Federal Dropship is supposed to be meh. I enjoyed mine when I stepped up from the Vulture. It's actually capable of getting out of it's own way- but the firing arcs are annoying. 3 under-slung, one on top- Its possible to have them all line up, its just annoying.
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Dec 9, 2015 20:38
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Mitchicon posted:What hull changes are being made? Smaller hull reinforcement packages are going to give more armor, so stacking them is going to be more viable. There might have been some mechanic changes too, but I can't remember. They are nerfing shield cells big time though, so ships relying on shields are going to have less of an advantage too.
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Dec 9, 2015 20:46
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TorakFade posted:I just wish they add some more medium ships. Not quite rich enough to do high risk stuff in a Python or Clipper, and the vulture and Asp have started feeling stale. gently caress 5-20mil, I want some expensive medium/small ships with better specialization. Give me a 100mil hull with 7/6/5/4/4/3 internals, L/L/M/M hardpoints, a class 6 FSD with good fuel efficiency and a paper mache hull that can jump further than an Anaconda. Or a Cobra V that's 60mil and combines the internals of the IV and the speed of a III. The Orca is a great example of a half-assed "expensive specialization" ship that they added before actually implementing the mechanic it's specialized for.
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Dec 9, 2015 21:24
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Mitchicon posted:Is the FAS any good? Not really, but at least I won't have to pay for any expensive schooling.
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Dec 9, 2015 21:36
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HiroProtagonist posted:Not really, but at least I won't have to pay for any expensive schooling. 
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Dec 9, 2015 21:48
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HiroProtagonist posted:Not really, but at least I won't have to pay for any expensive schooling. haha gently caress
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Dec 9, 2015 21:58
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Anyone have a recommended fit for a python? So far I've got this: http://coriolis.io/outfit/python/07A6A5A4D7A6A5C1e1e1e2a2a0404000n4f--------.AwRhrSumSA==.Aw18eQ== Most say just to fill the rest up with shield batterys but that seems pointless with the coming changes and I basically only do PvE - anyone have any ideas for this?
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Dec 9, 2015 22:48
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:gently caress 5-20mil, I want some expensive medium/small ships with better specialization. Give me a 100mil hull with 7/6/5/4/4/3 internals, L/L/M/M hardpoints, a class 6 FSD with good fuel efficiency and a paper mache hull that can jump further than an Anaconda. Or a Cobra V that's 60mil and combines the internals of the IV and the speed of a III. The Orca is a great example of a half-assed "expensive specialization" ship that they added before actually implementing the mechanic it's specialized for. But then you have the issue of having to grind hundreds of millions to get and operate them. Personally, not having much time to play, I'm not going for ultra expensive ships that would set me back significantly if I happen to get killed. Yes of course you can still have fun in the cheap ships but there's a noticeable gap between low end and high end, it doesn't make sense to me to be in a Cobra when I can easily afford an Asp, but I won't be able to afford an Anaconda anytime soon either. I just want more ships in my affordable range, and I can't be the only one out of the early game grind but unable to invest enough time to get the 100+ millions you need to run the bigger ships... Thus being stuck in an Asp or vulture forever. We need more ships with total fitting cost between 20 and 50 millions tops, is what I'm saying. TorakFade fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Dec 9, 2015 |
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Dec 9, 2015 22:51
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TorakFade posted:But then you have the issue of having to grind hundreds of millions to get and operate them. Personally, not having much time to play, I'm not going for ultra expensive ships that would set me back significantly if I happen to get killed.
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Dec 9, 2015 23:15
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TorakFade posted:But then you have the issue of having to grind hundreds of millions to get and operate them. Personally, not having much time to play, I'm not going for ultra expensive ships that would set me back significantly if I happen to get killed. I'm not going to say "don't add any lower-cost ships ever again", but with the addition of the Asp Scout and Keelback, we currently have: 9 sub-1mil CR ships (low-tier fighters, haulers, explorers) 7 1-10mil CR ships (mid-tier fighters, haulers, and explorers (but you won't get a better explorer lol)) 9 10-100mil CR ships (the best maneuverable fighting ships, high-tier scrappy and well-shielded fighting ships, hefty haulers) 3 100mil+ CR ships (tanky, huge, slow-rear end not-maneuverable frigates that double as haulers) It just seems unfortunate that they just kind of scrap the idea of doing anything but "large frigate, large hauler, or both" at higher price points.
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Dec 9, 2015 23:18
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So now that we know Horizons is 5-6 days away, is that the predicted date when Robigo will cease to be a fire hose of money? Because if so, I guess I'll stop waiting on an Asp and just hustle out there with my existing cobra right now.
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Dec 9, 2015 23:43
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Goredema posted:So now that we know Horizons is 5-6 days away, is that the predicted date when Robigo will cease to be a fire hose of money? Because if so, I guess I'll stop waiting on an Asp and just hustle out there with my existing cobra right now. I'd wager 5-6 days.
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Dec 9, 2015 23:43
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So if I have a kill mission that targets smugglers, is there any way to tell without a cargo scanner who's smuggling (plums)? I mean, it's a df mission so I'll likely just murder indiscriminately until I hit lucky, but just wondering in case that approach fails. Failing that, can I make any assumptions? E.g. favor smaller ships as targets, with bounty or without, etc.
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Dec 10, 2015 00:01
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HiroProtagonist posted:So if I have a kill mission that targets smugglers, is there any way to tell without a cargo scanner who's smuggling (plums)? You can look for the pitch black "MISSION TARGET" text on your hud when targeting someone. Hope your eyesight is good! Is this where I got "lmao  lmao" or
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Dec 10, 2015 00:08
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HiroProtagonist posted:So if I have a kill mission that targets smugglers, is there any way to tell without a cargo scanner who's smuggling (plums)? If you're not in a lawless system, smugglers are recognized by being wanted cargo ships. They often spawn at nav beacons. It shows a "Mission Target" text in the HUD for ships you need to kill, but it's in black so it's hard to see unless there is something bright behind it.
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Dec 10, 2015 00:08
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I'd wager 5-6 days. Is a Type-6 with 88 cargo capacaity viable for the Robigo money faucet? My trade rank is merchant and I've got $8.5 million to buy cargo with.
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Dec 10, 2015 00:10
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So rank grind is going to be at least a little easier in 1.5, right? I thought I read somewhere that they were improving faction experience rewards. I really hope so because that is the only thread of hope I'm clinging to before the poopsock abyss that may lie ahead.
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Dec 10, 2015 00:10
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They're adding progress bars for ranks, so at least you'll be able to tell how close you are to the next rank.
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Dec 10, 2015 00:18
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Capn Beeb posted:Is a Type-6 with 88 cargo capacaity viable for the Robigo money faucet? My trade rank is merchant and I've got $8.5 million to buy cargo with. It's missions so you don't have to worry about buying cargo but you will get interdicted by assholes so prepare to be shot at.
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Dec 10, 2015 00:18
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Rectus posted:If you're not in a lawless system, smugglers are recognized by being wanted cargo ships. They often spawn at nav beacons. Huh. Already killed one and saw absolutely no mission target sign. I'll keep an eye out for it though. Thanks.
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Dec 10, 2015 00:19
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:I'm not going to say "don't add any lower-cost ships ever again", but with the addition of the Asp Scout and Keelback, we currently have: I don't think it's super useful to group ships in price like this because it takes way the gently caress longer to get into the 100s of millions than it does to scrape together a few million for a specced out Cobra or whatever, also bigger ships have a higher cost to get them fully kitted out. If you mapped out a graph of number of ships that can viably be used against time they would be massively collected around the first few hours of gameplay. It doesn't help that the new ships are also mostly obsolete by design or extremely niche picks anyway, reducing the chance that people are actually going to fly them. Of the small ships the only 3 worth flying are the DBS, Cobra Mk III and Courier, with the Viper Mk III and Imp Eagle being notable as cheaper combat options but straight up worse than the others once you have more credits. In particular, the Viper Mk IV is almost straight up a worse Cobra Mk III (gaining a little shield and hull strength in exchange for a signficant drop in boost speed and turn rate) and the Asp Scout is a weird sidegrade to the DBS (gaining a little shield and hull strength and larger internals, and a better power distributor, which is great, but losing a ton of speed and being restricted with only 2 utility slots while being roughly twice as expensive to A spec). The Keelback is supposed to be justified by being the smallest ship that carries a fighter but at least until then it's 100% worse than the T6 for trading and worse than the Cobra for multirole. It's not just that the new ships fit into an already heavily populated part of the lineup but they're just not very good or interesting. And then all of these ships become 100% obsolete for combat once you can D-spec a Vulture which you can afford well before A-speccing anything larger than a Viper anyway, which says more about the Vulture probably being cheaper than its effectiveness would suggest than anything else, but it's also a major reason why adding any low end ships is going to be futile since I can't see anything ever beating out the Cobra for a cheap multi role ship. RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 00:27
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Actually, the Viper Mk. IV is better then the Cobra, since it not only has better armor and shields, but also higher jump range plus enough internals for an easy explorer-fit, including a landing vehicle. The DBS and the Asp Scout don't have enough internals to fit everything and the Cobra III and IV have less jump range. From my view point, the choice is clear. In the beta, I've already outfitted a Viper IV as my go-to ship for exploration inside the bubble. Apart from that, I agree fully. It's just from an explorers viewpoint, the ship flaws are basically reversed. Think about this for a moment: If you want a shield and a little bit of cargo in your explorer, you need at least six free module slots: Shield, Cargo, Fuel Scoop, SRV, Detailed Scanner, Advanced Scanner. From the line-up of exploration ships, the Asp Explorer is the only one with enough space. The only one! In all other exploration-ships, you have to make sacrifices just to do the role the ship was made for! It's kind of bad design if a combat ship like the Imperial Courier is technically a better explorer then almost every explorer-ship because it at least can carry around all the modules you need for exploration. I would like to hear what Frontier was thinking about this, they added all this crap explorers can find (on planets and in space) but made it so most exploration-ships can't fit cargo or landers.
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Dec 10, 2015 00:45
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Libluini posted:Actually, the Viper Mk. IV is better then the Cobra, since it not only has better armor and shields, but also higher jump range plus enough internals for an easy explorer-fit, including a landing vehicle. The DBS and the Asp Scout don't have enough internals to fit everything and the Cobra III and IV have less jump range. e: if you feel like wading through the brown sea, go bump this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=206696.
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Dec 10, 2015 00:52
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RabidWeasel posted:I don't think it's super useful to group ships in price like this because it takes way the gently caress longer to get from 0 to a few million than it does to go from 10 to 100 million, also bigger ships have a higher cost to get them fully kitted out. If you mapped out a graph of number of ships that can viably be used against time they would be massively collected around the first few hours of gameplay. Getting from 0 to a few million only takes awhile if you've walked into the game with no real bearing or point of reference. If you deleted your save and jumped back in a sidewinder, I don't think you'd take nearly as long to get to a few million as you did the first time around, even if you discount "log in for 2 hours, participate in a CG, wait for it to end and get 7.5mil in your pocket" types of approaches. But yeah, the split isn't perfect, there are outliers for all of them and really debating "prices" would require comparing minimally viable builds for everything (which is a lot more  than I want to put into this). My major issue is just the disparity between "best explorer hull" clocking in at a lowly 6mil and "best fighter hull" which could be debated between a maneuverable 21mil Clipper, tanky-but-steerable 56mil Python and just-a-tank 150mil+ Anaconda. When money is pretty much the only real "progression" mechanic in the game, the fact that for certain people playing the game the "endgame" comes at a comparatively trivial 15mil or so for an A-ranked Asp is unfortunate.To me, it really comes down to the equivalent of starting an MMO and saying "Okay, if you want to DPS or tank we'll let you get to level 100, but if you're healing you're capped at level 50. You can keep playing at 50, and if you keep playing we'll let you spend the experience points you're building up on another class that you can bounce instantly to 100, but you're not going to see any further benefit to your L50 healer. Ever. Have fun!" And it's not that they're not adding ships, they're just adding ones that are good for Trade and Combat and then not touching that whole "Exploration" category at all. 
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Dec 10, 2015 01:05
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Mercurius posted:There's a really good suggestion thread over on the frontier forums to make the detailed surface scanner a utility module rather than taking up an internal slot. It's a really simple change but it'd basically fix the problem of 'how do I balance shields, fuel scoops, cargo, SRV and scanners on a ship with only 5 internal slots' instantly. This is simple and fixes most explorers, I love it. (Even the Adder has 5 slots and is suddenly the newbie-explorer it is supposed to be.) Of course the Diamondback Scout is the one ship still boned, since it has only four slots. And the Asp Scout would need a third utility-slot to compensate, or a heatsink will be the only thing you can fit besides the detailed surface scanner.. But it's a step into the right direction.
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Dec 10, 2015 01:06
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It seems like Frontier is going to have difficulty adding more ships if they don't offer any obvious advantages over a ship that is already occupying a certain role.
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Dec 10, 2015 01:08
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:Getting from 0 to a few million only takes awhile if you've walked into the game with no real bearing or point of reference. If you deleted your save and jumped back in a sidewinder, I don't think you'd take nearly as long to get to a few million as you did the first time around, even if you discount "log in for 2 hours, participate in a CG, wait for it to end and get 7.5mil in your pocket" types of approaches. Somehow I wrote the first part of that post the exact opposite of what I meant, I meant to say that getting up to a few million only takes a short time even when you're new and loving around, but once you settle into "OK I want a sweet Python" territory you're 100% going to have to put in some dedicated farming time. Libluini posted:Actually, the Viper Mk. IV is better then the Cobra, since it not only has better armor and shields, but also higher jump range plus enough internals for an easy explorer-fit, including a landing vehicle. The DBS and the Asp Scout don't have enough internals to fit everything and the Cobra III and IV have less jump range. Yeah sorry I forget explorers exist, you guys get it even worse than everyone else what with all the stupid specialised modules you need and everything having less jump range than the Asp. RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 01:09
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RabidWeasel posted:Somehow I wrote the first part of that post the exact opposite of what I meant, I meant to say that getting up to a few million only takes a short time even when you're new and loving around, but once you settle into "OK I want a sweet Python" territory you're 100% going to have to put in some dedicated farming time. Or you just come back after 14 weeks of touring the galaxy and buy one from your exploration-money.  Ursine Catastrophe posted:My major issue is just the disparity between "best explorer hull" clocking in at a lowly 6mil and "best fighter hull" which could be debated between a maneuverable 21mil Clipper, tanky-but-steerable 56mil Python and just-a-tank 150mil+ Anaconda. When money is pretty much the only real "progression" mechanic in the game, the fact that for certain people playing the game the "endgame" comes at a comparatively trivial 15mil or so for an A-ranked Asp is unfortunate. This is spot on. Consider my experience: I'm an explorer, I have my Asp for exploration and that's all I need. If I want to get fancy, I can try out a cheaper ship inside the bubble, since lower jump range isn't as important if you don't want to cross the entire galaxy. But from a progression perspective, I'm basically a lv. 100 explorer. Just in case I've stored a FAS and an Imperial Eagle for times when I want to shoot something and I have a Python basically just to say "I have a Python" and to participate in trading-CGs. Now I've exhausted even all my non-main interests and my only long-term left is getting a Federal Corvette and trying to blast people with dual huge cannons or something. But that's more of a joke goal and I'm not planning on grinding for it. Objectively, I played the game for almost a year straight and put a godawful amount of time into it, but yeah, without any sort of in-game goal to reach, this is it. I've won Elite.  The Elite-endgame: Explorer: Asp Combat: Federal Corvette Trading: Imperial Cutter Pre-Horizons you could theoretically put an Anaconda intead of the Asp, but Horizons brings boosts to your jump range and really, why would you take a flying death trap if you can just squirt some chemicals into your Asp and jump even farther? Libluini fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 01:21
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RabidWeasel posted:Nah let's have like 10 ships with the same guns that cost ~500k or less, that seems fun and cool somehow And lets give most of them 2M/2S hardpoints with about a ~20-25 LY Jump range. Libluini posted:Actually, the Viper Mk. IV is better then the Cobra, since it not only has better armor and shields, but also higher jump range plus enough internals for an easy explorer-fit, including a landing vehicle. The DBS and the Asp Scout don't have enough internals to fit everything and the Cobra III and IV have less jump range. The Viper Mk4 only has 1LY more jump range than the Cobra Mk3 with equal fittings.
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Dec 10, 2015 01:25
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Xae posted:The Viper Mk4 only has 1LY more jump range than the Cobra Mk3 with equal fittings. At this level of difference I let my personal taste decide. And as nice as the Cobra is, I learned I can't stand sitting to the left instead of straight in the center of a cockpit. It may sound silly, but gently caress it, I go back to beta and try to bomb poo poo with the mine launcher on the underside of my Viper IV. 
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Dec 10, 2015 01:29
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RabidWeasel posted:Somehow I wrote the first part of that post the exact opposite of what I meant, I meant to say that getting up to a few million only takes a short time even when you're new and loving around, but once you settle into "OK I want a sweet Python" territory you're 100% going to have to put in some dedicated farming time. The 'problem' with explorers is they tend to be chilled out people, happy to gawp at the wonders of space, and take things easy, and are too busy playing (it is a time consuming thing to do!) to have time to constantly whine on the forums. And as we have seen, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Hence no meaningful changes to exploration mechanics, and one* relatively cheaply-fit ship that is the obvious best option. Also, the competition game-wise is basically Space Engine, which is free, so no real pressure on FD to do anything about it. That said, an incredibly easy fix would just be to give the Orca a class 8 FSD slot, and the corresponding 60+ LY jump range. It's not like that'll make the thing any more appealing for another role, and that would be a ship I could get behind seeing the stars in! *exploring in an Anaconda is painful, and a piss-poor reward for the effort it takes to afford it.
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Dec 10, 2015 01:32
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xiansi posted:The 'problem' with explorers is they tend to be chilled out people, happy to gawp at the wonders of space, and take things easy, and are too busy playing (it is a time consuming thing to do!) to have time to constantly whine on the forums. It's true, the Orca would make a sweet explorer with better jump range. Who knows, if the next six months don't see some kind of new high-end explorer coming. I'll probably make the Orca my new short-range explorer, just because I have no idea what else to spend my money on. Edit: Something like this. (The empty compartment is for the class 6 SRV-hangar. Because the space rich obviously need a huge space garage.  )
Libluini fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 01:40
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I hope the next expansion, patch or whatever they are calling it release a bunch of ships to fill out the ~10M, ~50M and ~200M price points. We're missing a multi-role and fighter for ~10M, and explorers at 50M and 200M.
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Dec 10, 2015 01:55
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