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Kalenn Istarion posted:Our kids' favourite ear cancer is Paw Patrol Actually Sydney and I's favourite game is making up new lyrics to Paw Troll while we walk to school. Paw Troll, Paw Troll, stop peeing on the carpet Paw Troll, Paw Troll, we'll throw you in a tar pit
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Dec 7, 2015 15:43
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flashy_mcflash posted:Actually Sydney and I's favourite game is making up new lyrics to Paw Troll while we walk to school. That sounds fun! My two year old's version is in screechy toddler voice and atonal The ohhhhh parts sound closer to Tarzan than the actual song
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Dec 7, 2015 18:15
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Volmarias posted:On that subject, as a part time single parent, what's the best way to entertain a pair of kids at this age when everything outside is too cold and the only alternative is the mall or Chuck E Cheese ( A favorite for both of my two (same ages as you) is a trip to the pet store. Older one will park herself on the fish tank aisle and ask employees her daily four-dozen questions. Younger one will squawk back at the parakeets. Good way to escape cabin fever. I'm very lucky to live in a city with a ton of free things to do. Zoo, science museum, history museum, and botanical gardens all have kids areas and are free at least on certain days of the week. We love going to the zoo in winter because it's not crowded and it's easy to duck from building to building - reptile house is always the warmest! Library story time is another good outing.
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Dec 9, 2015 05:52
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), and as a working dad there's no mommy friend support group? I can put on Netflix for the older one for a short break, but I don't want to rely on that and have her turn into a couch potato. Given the age disparity, it's really tough to find an activity they can both do together that doesn't turn into one of them losing interest and then damage control going from one to the other as someone needs to cry about something.
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Kitiara posted:I love this so much. They're such little smart-asses. My oldest hit her sister (which is a big no no), and so I told her to stop running and come apologise. Which of course made her run faster. So I caught her and gave her a gentle smack on her hand. So how is teaching your daughter not to hit by hitting her going?
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Dec 10, 2015 01:48
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GoreJess posted:So how is teaching your daughter not to hit by hitting her going?  Someone's feeling judgy today; besides me, of course.I mean, a gentle smack on her hand, come on. Kitiara might as well have slapped her across the face, the way you make it sound.
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Dec 10, 2015 03:57
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Well, is her kid allowed to "gently smack" her sibling? Because that is what she's teaching.
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Dec 10, 2015 04:07
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sheri posted:Well, is her kid allowed to "gently smack" her sibling? Because that is what she's teaching. I just want to preempt this by saying I do not advocate hitting or abusing your kid in any way. Now, first, nitpicking, maybe, but: quote:"So how is teaching your daughter not to hit by giving her a gentle smack on her hand going?" And then, I'm sure she's as allowed to "gently smack the hand" of her sibling as she's allowed to dictate her bedtime, decide what her sibling should eat, whether she should use a car seat or not; you know, anything her parents do.
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Dec 10, 2015 04:24
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rgocs posted:I just want to preempt this by saying I do not advocate hitting or abusing your kid in any way. Apes are apes.
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Dec 10, 2015 04:34
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Papercut posted:Apes are apes. Sure. Though there must be some distinction between "the big ape that takes care of me and keeps me from dying" from "the little ape that can't stop drooling all over my toys".
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Dec 10, 2015 04:39
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rgocs posted:
I mean if you're going to get pedantic about it, how can a kid judge the intensity of a smack? Kid hits younger sib. Parent calls kid over. "Stop running and apologize." Kid runs more, parent stops her with a "gentle smack on the hand." Kid thinks, "That smack sure felt more gentle than the way I hit my sister." ...except the kid doesn't think that because they don't have that sort of judgment. A hit is a hit, they can't tell degrees of how hard your hand hits versus their hand hitting. I just have to add that as a parent and someone who has worked in preschools, youth groups, classrooms, a wide variety of kids and ages - one of the unintended consequences of smacking your kid in that situation is that they're going to be the kid that runs when you tell them to stop, just like this example. They learn that they have nothing to lose. If they can escape your immediate reaction there's always the possibility it will blow over. But if they stop and come back, they know for sure they will be punished. You have to play the long con with kids and having them trust you will always be a better strategy. Otherwise you're setting them up to lie to protect themselves, run if challenged, etc. even when you're not trying to lay down the law.
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Dec 10, 2015 08:32
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hepscat posted:I mean if you're going to get pedantic about it, how can a kid judge the intensity of a smack? I get your point. My original response, however, was not about the kid judging the intensity of a smack, but more regarding the use of the word "hitting", which to me implies that the intention was to cause pain, which is not what was being referenced. An honest question though. Regardless of its effectiveness, or lack thereof, for discipline, from the child's point of view, rather than the intensity of the smack received, wouldn't the relevant thing be who is giving the smack and why? hepscat posted:I just have to add that as a parent and someone who has worked in preschools, youth groups, classrooms, a wide variety of kids and ages - one of the unintended consequences of smacking your kid in that situation is that they're going to be the kid that runs when you tell them to stop, just like this example. They learn that they have nothing to lose. If they can escape your immediate reaction there's always the possibility it will blow over. But if they stop and come back, they know for sure they will be punished. This applies to any kind of punishment though. Maybe not the running to escape the smack, but the lying to protect themselves or just getting sneakier about things. We've been wary of applying punishments for similar reasons. But what do you do when it looks like you have to spend an hour getting your 4 year old to wash his hands or eat his dinner. We've tried explaining to him that the longer he takes to do what he has to do (e.g. eat his dinner), the less time he has to do what he wants to do (e.g. play, story time before bed). Maybe it's not the best thing but lately it's worked telling him: if we have to tell you 5 times to do something, X toy is going away for a day. Usually by #3 he's doing what we asked.
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Dec 10, 2015 12:10
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rgocs posted:I get your point. My original response, however, was not about the kid judging the intensity of a smack, but more regarding the use of the word "hitting", which to me implies that the intention was to cause pain, which is not what was being referenced. From the child's point of view they are being hit by their caregiver, the person who is supposed to be safe. It erodes trust. The research is clear, hitting kids is bad. That being said, we need to educate people about that, not judge them. It's very ingrained in our culture and definitely needs to change, but change doesn't come through shame. On your question, you use natural and logical consequences coupled with reasonable expectations and follow through. At 4, for the hand washing I would say we need to wash our hands to stay healthy. Either you can do it or I can help you. If they still aren't doing it then repeat what you said and add you have 3 seconds to decide and then start counting. If they still aren't doing it then you say, "since you aren't washing your hands, that tells me you need me to help you" and then you hand over hand do it. They might resist a few times, but if you are consistent the battle will go away. For dinner, if the issue is staying too long, you put the food out then you set a timer for 30 minutes. You explain that 30 minutes is how long dinner is available and when the timer goes off dinner will be put away, even if you aren't done. Make sure you give reminders throughout the meal, i.e. 15 minutes left of dinner, 10 minutes, etc. At 30 minutes pronounce dinner is over and put the food away. Make sure that you don't give them food in 30 minutes when they complain. Hunger is the natural consequence. You can offer a snack later if that is your usual routine. They might fight it a few days and have a few days of being hungry, but they will learn quickly and the battle will disappear. You are setting clear limits and following through. It is much more logical to a child than taking away a toy because they are taking too long, which is a punishment and only builds resentment. In the situation I described, the child has the choice to eat at a reasonable pace and faces the consequence of their choice to do so (yay, I'm full) or not do so (dinner was put away and now I'm hungry). I always explain consequences to kids of all ages. We make choices and we have consequences. Good choices lead to good consequences and bad choices lead to bad consequences. Then give examples and apply it to the situation at hand. If you don't wash your hands, you get sick. If you do wash, you stay healthier. If you don't finish dinner, you get hungry and feel yucky. If you do finish your dinner, you feel full and good. This can be adapted to any age. I've had this conversation with toddlers and 8th graders. The reality of choices and consequences doesn't change in life. Teaching in these terms helps them learn to think ahead and self-regulate, an essential life skill.
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Dec 10, 2015 13:39
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A big trick I've found is to avoid unneccessary power struggles wherever possible. Small kids can't control much in their life, so they'll fight you tooth and nail over the things they can control, simply because they can. There is so much truth to "you can't make kids eat, sleep or go to the bathroom", and if you enter into a dumb power struggle in either of those areas, you're probably going to lose and you're all going to have a lovely time. If you have trouble at meal times, check out the Satter method, it's great. Very, very short version: Your job is to provide healthy and good food, their job is to eat it. Your job ends when you've done your part. If they don't eat, they suffer the consequenses, i.e. they feel hungry. No power struggles that make dinner suck for everyone. It's not a magic bullet, but it gives you tools and a way of thinking that makes mealtimes less stressful. We're not 100 % Satter, because the consequences of my kid not eating dinner/supper is that she sleeps like absolute crap, which becomes a consequence everyone else in the household suffers from, and she's a little too young to connect the dots properly, but I've found that she eats more and we all enjoy mealtime more when we go at it with a more relaxed attitude. Putting food on the table is our job, eating it is her job 
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Dec 10, 2015 14:41
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Getting back to the single parent thing, I don't say this to pat myself on the back or whatever, but, you... just kinda do it. I don't know. I am very fortunate to have family support, in that we live with my parents, but since we live with them I feel like asking them to babysit is too much to ask. As a result, everything I do, my son does with me. I went grocery shopping on my own the other day and it was GLORIOUS. He's 2.5 and in the "I'm gonna be a jerk ONLY to mom" phase and it's been really, really tough. I work nights, from home, so most people think I'm a stay at home mom, or give me the "oh you're so lucky to work from home it must be nice" which, gently caress yeah it is, but I also have pretty much no non-family adult interaction most days. I care for my son all day, when he goes to bed I go to work, till 11pm, 6 nights a week. He's up at 7 and we're off running. I left my son's father when I was 3 months pregnant and he's virtually a non-entity in our lives--I see him in court when he files motions for relief from child support, he's seen our son once in the past 10 months, and then once for the 8 months prior. I had an awesome partner for 2.5 years, we got together 4 months before my son was born, but we split up last March. He has been dad to my son and remains so. But he's got his own son and works crazy hours. I dunno. Phew. It's been a rough couple weeks, but we'll get through it, and he'll be doing some other maddening thing soon 
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Dec 10, 2015 17:50
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Oh man, you are a hero. If we didn't live on different continents, I'd have your kid over for playtime any day. I have no idea how things work in the US, but aren't there any cheap/free programs you could enroll him in, at least occasionally, during the daytime, so you can get a breather and he can hang with other adults and kids? At least you shouldn't feel bad about asking your parents for babysitting support - wearing yourself out by taking care of him all day, every day and working all night, isn't good for you, and by extension, not for him. Happier mom = happier kid
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Dec 10, 2015 19:49
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Sockmuppet posted:A big trick I've found is to avoid unneccessary power struggles wherever possible. Small kids can't control much in their life, so they'll fight you tooth and nail over the things they can control, simply because they can. There is so much truth to "you can't make kids eat, sleep or go to the bathroom", and if you enter into a dumb power struggle in either of those areas, you're probably going to lose and you're all going to have a lovely time. Thanks for this post, as it's been something we've been struggling with lately. I've been doing a modified version of this (after an allotted time to eat, about 30 mins, the food goes away) but am not really making much headway. Sydney likes to eat and will try just about anything, but keeping her focused on sitting at the table and eating is tough. She reacts very badly to the food being taken away and my wife tends to give in and return it to her (starting the cycle all over again) when she complains of hunger, but I recognize that I may not be being clear enough in communicating the time limit at the start. The reminders of 'ten minutes to eat, five minutes to eat' would probably help here.
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Dec 10, 2015 21:35
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Tom Swift Jr. posted:From the child's point of view they are being hit by their caregiver, the person who is supposed to be safe. It erodes trust. The research is clear, hitting kids is bad. That being said, we need to educate people about that, not judge them. It's very ingrained in our culture and definitely needs to change, but change doesn't come through shame. Thanks for this post. I've read similar things, but it's always good to have a concise refresher. Our reasoning behind the "if we have to ask 5 times, X toy goes away" strategy, and the way we explained it to him, was that the punishment is for not listening to us/not doing what he's told, rather than not doing the actual thing (never skipping over the explanation of why the thing needs doing). It came up from frustration when there are no clear consequences of not doing the thing we asked, or they just don't affect him. For example, it is us parents who can get into trouble at work for arriving late because he refused to collaborate during the morning routine, stretching every little action for as long as possible. It doesn't affect him. Don't get me wrong, we have explained it to him and we think he sort of gets it; but still, sometimes the actual consequences for him are none, other than make his parents cranky, which all kids his age seem to like. And yes, we do also praise good behaviour and we show him we are happy and appreciate when he does things right. Still, sometimes it doesn't go that way. Sockmuppet posted:A big trick I've found is to avoid unneccessary power struggles wherever possible. Small kids can't control much in their life, so they'll fight you tooth and nail over the things they can control, simply because they can. There is so much truth to "you can't make kids eat, sleep or go to the bathroom", and if you enter into a dumb power struggle in either of those areas, you're probably going to lose and you're all going to have a lovely time. Yes, we do this as much as possible. We try to do what Tom Swift Jr. said, taking the washing hands example: "since you aren't washing your hands, that tells me you need me to help you", but it's not always that straightforward and sometimes he'll resist even that, I'll go to the washroom and he'll try every trick and distraction possible to keep me from washing his hands. D: Here, I'll help you wash your hands. S: I don't want to wash my hands. D: You need to wash your hands or you can get sick. S: But I don't want to. D: I get that, but you NEED to wash them, or you can get sick. *explanation of why he could get sick and what could happen* S: But I peed without touching anything. D: You think you didn't but I just saw you; in any case, when we go to the washroom, we wash our hands. S: Look at this dad! D: Oh, nice, come here and let me wash your hands. S: *grabs a plane bath toy* Did you know I flew on one like this? D: Yes, *some related comment*. Can you please come here and let me wash your hands? S: I'm going to show mom the plane. etc etc etc I could: - Let it go and let him face the consequences; which with bad luck might send him to the hospital and if all goes well there are no consequences. - Stay there in that cycle and let the dinner burn in the stove, be late for work, and ignore any of the other things that need to get taken care of. - Forcefully grab him and wash his hands, triggering a nasty power struggle. - Or I can tell him, I've asked you several times to wash your hands, I've explained why you need to wash them; if I have to ask you one more time, your firetruck goes away for X days. I get that consequences can be more proximal, like "you can't eat dinner", but it doesn't always apply. Taking the toy away for not doing what he's told is seems to break the cycle. Even mentioning a number is often met with "no, stop counting, I'm doing it now". rgocs fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 21:53
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Our two-month-old absolutely hates car rides. She's usually ok if she's in the carrier but being carried, I think because of the swinging. But within five minutes of driving, she's apoplectic. Any ideas to calm her down? Really not looking forward to driving from Michigan to San Antonio next summer if this keeps up.
hooah fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 23:27
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hooah posted:Our two-month-old absolutely hated car rides. She's usually ok if she's in the carrier but being carried, I think because of the swinging. But within five minutes of driving, she's apoplectic. Any ideas to calm her down? Really not looking forward to driving from Michigan to San Antonio next summer if this keeps up. Our two-month old (exactly today) used to go through the same. Sometimes she'd end up crying herself to sleep in the car. When trying to figure out if there was something wrong we noticed the attachment to keep her head steady was a bit too tight. We changed it for a makeshift one that's a bit less tight and the car rides became calmer.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:38
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I'll check that out, thanks.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:49
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Also, we try to feed her right before we get in the car, to get the most out of that milk-induced drunk-like state, increasing the chances of her falling asleep right away. This worked best after we changed the head-rest thing, of course.
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Dec 11, 2015 00:11
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We're at 3 months and dealing with the same thing, Just this week I switched his seat for a convertible seat (diono radian rxt) and so far it's been amazing. I don't know what was the issue with the bucket seat, he wasn't using the head padding so not that. I can only assume that since the radian has such open sides he wanted to see more/was feeling claustrophobic in the bucket? Just a guess though.
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Dec 11, 2015 01:45
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When our kid was that young the only way to keep him from crying and freaking out in the car was driving with the front windows down. It really sucked in the winter.
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Dec 11, 2015 03:10
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lady flash posted:I don't know what was the issue with the bucket seat, he wasn't using the head padding so not that. I can only assume that since the radian has such open sides he wanted to see more/was feeling claustrophobic in the bucket? Just a guess though. In our case the head padding being tight also limited her ability to look around, so yeah, besides discomfort it could've also been some claustrophobic effect.
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Dec 11, 2015 03:13
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hooah posted:Our two-month-old absolutely hates car rides. She's usually ok if she's in the carrier but being carried, I think because of the swinging. But within five minutes of driving, she's apoplectic. Any ideas to calm her down? Really not looking forward to driving from Michigan to San Antonio next summer if this keeps up. I see you've gotten suggestions for solving the immediate problem, but I just wanted to address the last bit - she's two months old. Whatever she freaks out about now, is not going to be the same thing she freaks out about by next summer. She might love driving! Or she might still hate it, but for an entirely different reason. If she does, she'll at least be easier to interact with and thus distract - I once spent 45 minutes (I watched the clock!) making exaggerated pretend sneezes for our 8 month old, because we were stuck in traffic and it was the only thing that would stop her from screaming her head off.
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Dec 11, 2015 11:06
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I don't think the head support is very tight - it looks like she's got maybe an inch on each side to wiggle. Maybe it's the thing about wanting to look around, but I already bought the car seat for the next stage, and we're too poor to afford trying out however many different options (plus we have a travel system so we'd need a new stroller too). Thanks for the reassurance about the summer, though.
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Dec 11, 2015 13:48
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GoreJess posted:So how is teaching your daughter not to hit by hitting her going? I hate comments like these because a. they're extremely judgemental and b. provide nothing of help and c. they immediately set the other person (in this case me) into a defensive tone which nearly always leads to arguments. As rgocs said, I am not hitting my daughter. I gently smacked her. And it's going really well actually, thank you for asking. I tend to combine it with this: Tom Swift Jr. posted:I always explain consequences to kids of all ages. We make choices and we have consequences. Good choices lead to good consequences and bad choices lead to bad consequences. Then give examples and apply it to the situation at hand. If you don't wash your hands, you get sick. If you do wash, you stay healthier. If you don't finish dinner, you get hungry and feel yucky. If you do finish your dinner, you feel full and good. I never smack her at random or out of anger (this is better important). If she does a bad thing, like hurting her sister or something that would hurt her (like running onto the road), I remove her from the situation, explain why that is not a good thing to do and ask her to not to that again. If she does it a second time, I repeat the same explanation but warn her that she will get a smack next time she does it again. At the third time, I give her a gentle smack. Every child is different, but I have found that this approach really works for us. I may be doing it wrong and it will come to bite me in the rear end later, but at least with this daughter it is going fantastic and I feel like I am raising a really great girl. I know she is a child, and I make sure she understands that I am the parent and yes I do know that it is time for her to go to bed better than she does. However, I have always had conversations with her. As much as I can given her age at the time. Always explain the reasoning behind things and the consequences of their actions, and it has made her so very reasonable. It's awesome. Tom Swift Jr. posted:From the child's point of view they are being hit by their caregiver, the person who is supposed to be safe. It erodes trust. The research is clear, hitting kids is bad. That being said, we need to educate people about that, not judge them. It's very ingrained in our culture and definitely needs to change, but change doesn't come through shame. The whole "the person who is supposed to be safe. It erodes trust." is why I didn't do the cry it out method until my daughter was over 10 months. I was scared of scarring her at a young age when she couldn't understand that I was coming back. I agree that hitting kids is a very bad thing. I experienced it growing up and yes, it erodes trust. If violence is all it shows. We have few solid rules in my house, but the biggest ones are: We don't yell. Ever. And we don't hit out of anger/annoyance/emotion. My daughters only get smacks (usually very gentle and either in the hand or in the butt) after being warned that it would happen and explained the reasons and consequences. I always hugged them before and after the smacks. I explained that I don't like smacking her, but she did something after I told her she shouldn't and so she had to have the consequence for it. I am not saying my method is perfect, but it is working for us. I have a great relationship with my daughter, and she is a very happy little girl. Please don't assume that every cookie comes from the same cutter.
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Dec 11, 2015 15:09
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So, if you aren't hitting out of anger/annoyance/emotion....you are hitting your kid for the sake of hitting your kid? I'm not trying to be snarky, but I honestly don't understand. sheri fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 15:43
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I just read you bookend the hitting with hugs. Uh....my parents "smacked" me on the butt when I was, in their eyes, being naughty and I can't even imagine how more hosed up it would have been in the mind of child me to have my parents hug me, then hit me, then hug me again. Your whole post of explaining that the consequences of not following the rules = getting hit to a child is weird. It seems in the same vein as what an abuser would tell his victim (I love you why do you make me do this to you). I'm not saying you are abusing your kids, as i dont think you are, but really I think the underlying mindsets seem very similar. sheri fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 15:46
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sheri posted:I just read you bookend the hitting with hugs. Uh....my parents "smacked" me on the butt when I was, in their eyes, being naughty and I can't even imagine how more hosed up it would have been in the mind of child me to have my parents hug me, then hit me, then hug me again. We get it. You don't agree with her parenting style. If you aren't going to offer some sort of alternative or actual helpful advice, then all you're doing is coming off like a judgemental rear end in a top hat and inciting an argument.
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Dec 11, 2015 15:50
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I don't agree with hitting kids and I know other people are ok with it.... but to bookend it with hugs seems super hosed up. Imagine the conflicting messages a kid gets. My alternative would be don't hit your drat kids and then find a different consequence or if you do hit your kids don't do the creepy "I'm hitting you because I love you" thing
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Dec 11, 2015 15:56
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sheri posted:I don't agree with hitting kids and I know other people are ok with it.... but to bookend it with hugs seems super hosed up. Imagine the conflicting messages a kid gets. I mean, I agree with you, but you just have an absolutely terrible "bedside manner" when it comes to actually encouraging parents to seek different avenues of punishment. We get it, you're an awesome parent who has a kid that responds to whatever punishment you dole out... but it's not that easy for every parent and you just come off as a monumental rear end.
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Dec 11, 2015 16:11
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Haha. My kid is far from easy. He's been super challenging since day one. I'm not a perfect parent at all, but I do believe in finding punishments and consequences that don't involve hitting tiny humans. And I spend time working on finding consequences and punishments that do work for my kid, its an ever changing thing we work at. I'm not sure how to sugarcoat or make things more palatable for people in this situation. Maybe someone that is better at that and has more time could but I have brief bursts of time with which to post and can't spend a lot of time massaging my normal tone go make it 'better.' Sorry. sheri fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 16:16
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Everyone set for Christmas? The Norad santa tracker used to be pretty cool on Christmas eve but these days I imagine there's probably loads of similar, sugary twee ones. Back when it was first introduced it was a very basic blip like a satellite tracker moving round the globe. My over two and a half year old won't talk. She says maybe 40 words, half of which aren't really clear enough to know what she's saying unless you know her. I've done what I can as far as official intervention goes - spoke to the health visitor who referred me to the speech and language therapist, who then called for a chat 4 months later and put her on a waiting list telling me not to expect anything before the new year. That's pretty much how it goes here (in the UK), if I lived in a city I could maybe look for private options but we're up in the arse end of nowhere so that's not really an option. Her development apart from the not speaking seems okay. She's completely dry during the day and considerately saves her poo until she has a nappy on at bed time which while not as good as doing it in the toilet is better than her pants. She can get her wellies and coat on and off, point to all her body parts and pictures in books of things like cars and flowers, and plays with her dolls pretending to feed them and tuck them into bed (and occasionally getting attacked by dinosaurs). Height and weight are normal, she can run, jump, kind of hop and loves to dance. I'm kind of stuck. I just have to wait for an appointment to come through and do things at home to try and help in the meantime. So this is just a kind of 'reassure me it will be fine' post, because I keep dwelling on what if it is something more? Edit: Her hearing has been tested and is fine. hookerbot 5000 fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 16:38
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Edit: ^^^ The fact that she understands language at an age-appropriate level, she just isn't speaking much herself, is a big positive indicator. It's great that you're getting her checked out, either you'll be reassured that she's just taking her time with talking, or you'll get an intervention started early, if one is needed. Cheerful anecdote - my littlest cousin hardly spoke a word until she was three, then she suddenly went from nothing to perfectly formed words and sentences. Apparently she just needed to make sure that she had everything right before she started talking. I get Sheris reaction. It's the whole "Dear child, I am now calmly and lovingly going to (gently!) smack you for something you did five minutes ago"-thing. If you have the time to have a long talk and explain why you're (gently!) smacking your kid, it seems there would be time to devise a punishment/consequense for unwanted behaviour that isnt', well, (gently!) smacking. I have much more understanding for smacks given in the heat of the moment, on rare occasions when your kid does something really, REALLY wrong/possibly dangerous, where you're desperate as a parent to show them the seriousness of the situation, rather than having (gentle!) smacks as an integrated, thought out and deliberate part of your parenting style. (And to show that I'm not some holier than thou parent - I was feeding my daughter when she was around a year old, and had turned away, and she just leaned forward and bit down on my finger as hard as she could (she had LOTS of teeth already!). On simple reflex I basically smacked her on top of the head and she let go immediately in pure surprise. She was totally unfased afterwards, didn't even start crying, but my husband was staring at me from across the table in shock, and he still brings up the time "you hit our baby!" to tease me. I felt like crap, but the actual bloody wound on my finger from her teeth made me feel slightly less guilty.) Sockmuppet fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 16:44
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sheri posted:I don't agree with hitting kids and I know other people are ok with it.... but to bookend it with hugs seems super hosed up. Imagine the conflicting messages a kid gets. Well, to look at it another way - I am perfectly content to watch my child hurt themselves doing something they shouldn't be (assuming it won't actually lead to injury) even if I plan on comforting them afterwards. Actual physical pain is not actually a big deal for most people, even children, and a gentle smack hardly even hurts. So like you say, it's all about the message being sent. I'm not "letting him fall and bump his head because I love him", I'm letting him discover the consequences of his actions. I, personally, don't plan on hitting my child unless immediate physical pain is the best recourse to avoid an actual immediate injury (slapping his hand away from the fireplace or something), but so long as it's a situation where the child can expect the outcome, the outcome does no real lasting harm, and the situation is completely within the child's control... I'm having trouble seeing how that's super hosed up. I don't see a child getting rapped in the hand with a spoon every time they reach into the cookie jar to steal a cookie causing psychological damage, especially if there isn't a big deal made out of it. You're "hurting" your child just as much putting them in time out as you are smacking them on the hand, even if the wounds are less likely to be visible. But like a gentle smack, the real harm won't come from the punishment - it would come from inconsistent, unpredictable punishment, or punishment with the primary goal of placating the parent rather than improving the child. Sockmuppet posted:I have much more understanding for smacks given in the heat of the moment, on rare occasions when your kid does something really, REALLY wrong/possibly dangerous, where you're desperate as a parent to show them the seriousness of the situation, rather than having (gentle!) smacks as an integrated, thought out and deliberate part of your parenting style. Physical punishment is much less of a bad thing than making your child actually scared of you or giving them reasons not to trust you.
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Dec 11, 2015 17:19
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I don't know why you're singling out sheri. I'll go ahead and categorically state that I'm judgmental about hitting, spanking, gentle smacking, love tapping, whatever you want to call it. This is not a hugbox and spanking is a parenting choice. It's a very BAD choice. Everyone can do their own google-based research but I think this article sums it up well: http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx One of the psychiatrists quoted there wrote a book that my son's psychiatrist required us to read. Yes, you read that right - my son has a psychiatrist because he has a disorder that affects his behavior. But the concept is the same for all children. IIt boils down to - inflicting physical pain may stop a kid in the short run but in the long run it has very negative unintended consequences. If you are old enough to know that you're going to get a little smack for doing something, it becomes an all-or-nothing situation. That's why kitiara's daughter ran away when caught hitting her little sister, even though a parent told her to stop running. If she stops running and comes back, she knows she's not going to like the punishment. So she does the opposite of what the parent wants, runs away, because the one thing she knows consciously and unconsciously for sure is that if she goes back she will get hurt. If she runs away, maybe dad/mom will forget about it in a few minutes. Or more immediately, she's not getting hurt. It's pretty much a textbook reaction. The book we read was The Kazdin Method is positive reinforcement and even though it's for kids with behavior problems, the methods would work for behavior in every kid. Plus, it's evidence-based! Not based on old wives tales, anecdotes, "I was smacked and I turned out just fine" crap. (I don't know any sciencey stuff about hugging before and after a spanking but holy crap, that sounds exactly like an abusive relationship. You know I love you, I just have to hurt you because you did something bad, you're making me do this - are you kidding me?)
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Dec 11, 2015 19:09
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I think you're just over interpreting smack in the most negative possible way. Like, politely clap your hands for a guest speaker coming to a podium. Now clap the back of your hand instead, once. There, light smack. It's not a punishment or painful, it's just to grab attention. It's not hitting.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:16
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greatn posted:I think you're just over interpreting smack in the most negative possible way. Like, politely clap your hands for a guest speaker coming to a podium. Now clap the back of your hand instead, once. There, light smack. It's not a punishment or painful, it's just to grab attention. It's not hitting. Right, but if it's so light and all that, why isn't it working? The kid didn't stop running, and in fact ran away faster from her parent. Kitiara even laughed about it - of course she ran away, ha ha. Why is it okay to hit someone on the hand as a punishment for...hitting your sister? I guess I will just have to spell it out. A smack is bad. We don't want our kids to smack other kids to get what they want. That goes for light taps, anything you want to call it. I guarantee when you get to the public school system they will not shrug off a kid who light taps another kid to take their toy, disagree with them, etc. Why should an adult do something we don't tolerate in kids? Or with other adults? Next time I want waiter's attention I'll just swat him on the hand.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:28
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greatn posted:It's not a punishment or painful, it's just to grab attention. It's not hitting. How is it to grab attention if it comes at the end of a talk where you explain why you're smacking (making it a punishment), then a hug, then the smack and then another hug? That's the weird bit. As I said, I have more understanding for a smack out of desperation/fear in rare instances of deliberate bad/dangerous behaviour. It's still a bad choice, but at least it's not a planned out routine.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:33
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