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blue squares posted:On what basis could anyone say Trump is a libertarian? Uh, he's a white man obsessed with money.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:20
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Typical Rubio, barely getting his job done. Joementum posted:Uh, he's a white man obsessed with money. Sure, but so is everyone but Rubio, Cruz (iffy) and Fiorina. He hardly talks about the "free market."
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Dec 10, 2015 05:21
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Anyway, the 2008 Libertarian nomination was a close contest by former-and-now-again Republican Bob Barr, who left Congress to become a lawyer for the Duvalier regime, and former-Democrat-probably-still-Democrat Mike Gravel who argued at their convention that universal healthcare was Libertarian because it provided freedom... from want.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:23
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Uh as in Papa Doc Duvalier?
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Dec 10, 2015 05:28
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Joementum posted:Best case scenario for the Democrats is that Trump gets the Libertarian party nomination. They'll get ballot access in 45-49 states.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:28
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Dave Weigel hung out at a Luntz focus group full of Trump supporters. Some highlights:quote:@daveweigel: In this focus group of 29 Republicans who currently or used to back Trump, only 3 say Obama is Christian. quote:@daveweigel: When focus group began, only 10 people said they were 90% or 100% set on backing him. After an hour of discussing his gaffes, it's 16. quote:@daveweigel: This Trump focus group is now mostly justifying him mocking the disabled reporter. Hour 3 starting now quote:@daveweigel: Focus group watches ad intended to embarrass Trump by playing his attacks on fellow Rs. By 5-1 margin they find it funny not offensive quote:@daveweigel: The only negative ad that the group found effective was one about people who lost jobs in Trump deals. Nothing else worked. quote:@daveweigel: Two voters who came into the focus group having cooled on Trump now say they're more supportive, after 2.5 hours of negative arguments quote:@daveweigel: I asked the Trump focus group if Bush should have invaded Iraq in 2003. About a 4-1 "no" margin. quote:@daveweigel: Luntz analyzing his Trump focus group: "The intensity here is greater than anything I saw for Ross Perot."
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Dec 10, 2015 05:28
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The Dem race is sorely lacking without a candidate like Gravel or Kucinich. I had high hopes for Chaffee but welp...
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Dec 10, 2015 05:28
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zoux posted:Uh as in Papa Doc Duvalier? http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/americas/01/22/haiti.duvalier.barr/?hpt=T2 quote:Barr said he returned to Port-au-Prince for the first time in nearly 30 years because he believed Duvalier is genuinely interested in alleviating Haiti's suffering. He said the Caribbean nation was in worse shape now than it was when Duvalier was at the helm. The gently caress is it with conservatives being apocalyptically-bad judges of character? FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 05:31
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Grouchio posted:On a scale of 0 to 10, what is the likelihood of this occuring? Assuming Trump doesn't get the GOP nomination, it depends how spiteful and prideful he is. If he's full of pride, then he'll try to do it on his own even though that would restrict his access. If he's full on "gently caress you" mode and/or secretly a Hillary plant, then he'll go for the Libertarians because of their ballot access.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:31
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Grouchio posted:On a scale of 0 to 10, what is the likelihood of this occuring? I'm not going to pretend I have any idea what goes on in Trump's mind and what he'll do if he's losing the Republican nomination this Spring, but if he wants the Libertarian nomination he could have it. Libertarians are not known for their ideological consistency when given the opportunity to support plutocrats.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:31
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Is it legally possible to declare any of Trump's supporters as clinically insane? Or to mark them as rebels?
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Dec 10, 2015 05:32
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Dave Weigel hung out at a Luntz focus group full of Trump supporters. Some highlights: Who are these people?
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Dec 10, 2015 05:33
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zoux posted:Who are these people? Room full of uncle ruckuses.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:35
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zoux posted:Who are these people? More importantly, did Luntz crap himself in fear after this focus group as well?
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Dec 10, 2015 05:37
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Joementum posted:Uh, he's a white man obsessed with money. And contemptuous of minorities, which never hurts your odds with libertarians. take the bait Jrod I dare you FAUXTON posted:http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/americas/01/22/haiti.duvalier.barr/?hpt=T2 They're actually just really dishonest. 
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Dec 10, 2015 05:39
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McDowell posted:Are snakes real? No
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Dec 10, 2015 05:40
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This is the part in the movie where the heroes all realize that their own efforts to defeat the creature are actually making it stronger.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:40
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zoux posted:This is the part in the movie where the heroes all realize that their own efforts to defeat the creature are actually making it stronger. I really wish I had a time lapse of Luntz's face over the course of that focus group.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:42
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Hmm when you condition your base to be spiteful, selfish assholes they don't just turn that off when you are the target imagine that. The commercials where they call Trump mean to the other Republicans and why that's wrong sound hilarious. The idea that that sort of "he's being mean daddy make him stop" weakness would appeal to anyone, let alone a bunch of lunatics who believe that the only person worthy of leading is a tough talking alpha male is so naive it's almost adorable. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 05:47
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I can almost understand the spiteful contrarianism among Trump supporters, but actually justifying mocking a disabled person just makes you an utter rear end in a top hat, full-stop. These people just don't seem to care at all about how they're perceived anymore and are proudly airing their most despicable opinions out of sheer anger and frustration.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:47
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zoux posted:This is the part in the movie where the heroes all realize that their own efforts to defeat the creature are actually making it stronger. Well let's skip some chapters on this lovely movie until we get to the point where our heroes unite to overcome. Oh my god, this is a tragedy isn't it?
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Dec 10, 2015 05:49
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zoux posted:This is the part in the movie where the heroes all realize that their own efforts to defeat the creature are actually making it stronger. It's the part of the movie where the hovership crew is like "yo the matrix has been loving bonkers recently" and they flip on the screens, showing that everything is indeed loving bonkers, poo poo's jumping all over the place, ascii goddamn lightning bolts and poo poo because Elrond is in there making copies of himself out of everyone.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:49
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The Pulitzer winning post-election postmortem tell all book on this cycle is going to be insanely good.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:49
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zoux posted:The Pulitzer winning post-election postmortem tell all book on this cycle is going to be insanely good. If they don't make a game change style HBO series out of it I'm going to be disappointed.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:51
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Trump plans to visit the Temple Mount, the third holiest site in Islam. “If Trump the racist plans to visit ... the holiest place in the world for Muslims, to harm the sensitivities of the people who he incites, he and Netanyahu will be responsible,” said Knesset member Tabel Abu Arrar. “Such a visit will set the whole region on fire,” said Abu Arrar, a member of the Arab-dominated Joint List political alliance. “I am warning.”
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Dec 10, 2015 05:52
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"Trump the Racist, First of His Name" 
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Dec 10, 2015 05:55
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The act could cause unrest and loss of life. Meanwhile his support among likely GOP voters steadily grows.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:58
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Straight from the man's mouth: I love war.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:58
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Maybe his plan is to kill all the terrorists through apoplexy. And me.
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Dec 10, 2015 05:59
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Thump! posted:The distance between Robert Dear's home in Hartsel, Colorado and Colorado Springs is 64 miles. Any excuse to repost this.
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Dec 10, 2015 06:04
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fade5 posted:Hillary despises Republicans though, and in the very off chance Sanders would be elected he wouldn't do a grand bargain. For anyone interested in this topic, Louis Theroux did a good documentary called By Reason of Insanity that you should watch.
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Dec 10, 2015 06:09
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Trump plans to visit the Temple Mount, the third holiest site in Islam.  I want to see what he does.
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Dec 10, 2015 06:10
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FAUXTON posted:I mean it's a tiny bit sad since it's just a big ol' drunk lady stomping around her trailer alone hollering into the Internet's gaping maw while she chainsmokes and glares at her TV. You almost feel bad for those people because you think they resent the hand they were dealt and for good reason, but then you realize these people are the ones trying to run BLM protesters down with their vans and poo poo and you realize that yeah, these people were dealt a kind of poo poo hand, but they have thought it's been a great hand all their lives and will sabotage everyone around them to prove it save for the fucker that dealt it to them to begin with. We laughed at Jim Webb vowing to stand for the poor Scots-Irish in the country, but the fact is that since the Democrats (and the left in general) have written off these people, they are flocking to Trump. There is no reason at all to sanction their actions and attitudes, but the reason for their anger is plain, and in many ways justified. The elites have failed them, and the system isn't working. This is true for everyone, but in, for example, the black community their are still many means of organizing to push back against power. Organizing efforts in those communities never went away, and how to organize for political change and direct action is a valued and cultivated skill in the African American culture, for what I hope are obvious reasons. In the poor white ones you and Jim Webb describe, this focus on political organizing is gone. The role used to be fulfilled by the unions, but those are largely defeated now. There is not a cultural mythos of organizing; Eugene Debbs isn't lauded the way King or Chavez are by their respective communities. In fact, the majority opinion is focused on the futility of organizing, "They are all crooks!' and the like. So they have very justified anger at very real societal problems, and no way to express that for redress from their own community. Trump himself isn't someone to take serious. He is, not to put to fine a point on it, a loving clown. What you need to take serious is that very large mass of people with a real need for change who are not being organized to achieve it in a nondestructive way. That is what Trump is tapping into, and those needs are forming a movement that needs to be countered. We need to be very wary because someone like Clinton can't counter this kind of movement. She can beat it, sure. But beating it won't halt the movement. Those grievances will remain, the inability to get their problems resolved will remain, being organized in a way that benefits them but is counterproductive to the whole will remain, and eventually there will be an election cycle where they will win. To beat the movement you need to break its power base by offering an alternative path and getting its base to join the new movement. For organizing any community you need to get the community to come together under a leader (or group of leaders) who are not perceived as an outsider (so the community is achieving it, thus they feel empowered by the results, and accepting of the process through which they achieved results), and the leaders organization need to provide a serious alternative that delivers solutions to them when they call for direct action (so that they see this organizing as a positive solution). Clinton doesn't offer that, she simply cannot offer that. She is perceived as an outsider to that community, as a representative of the elites who have been failing for decades. Thus she engenders no trust from them. As her policy solutions don't redress their needs on a core level (and in fact her past actions helped create their situation) she can't demonstrate that backing her is a positive solution. She will in all likelihood have more votes than Trump, but she will not be pulling voters from him, will not gain support from the people presently backing him. Even delivering policy that does alleviate their situation will not win them over, because as she is seen as an outsider it won't be received as their communities being empowered and their concerns being redressed but instead seen with suspicion (eg the response to the Affordable Care Act) We desperately need a coherent, organizing oppositional force, active and working in those communities to channel their anger into a movement of political empowerment and commitment to process so that you get negotiating, egalitarianism, compromise, and ready acceptance of disappointing electoral and procedural outcomes as norms. It doesn't need to be the democrats any more than BLM or the Rainbow Coalition are in poor black communities. But we need someone in there and organizing to get them to push for change other than the kind Trump and Pence and Arpaio are offering. Otherwise this is just going to fester, and turn into something even darker like the alt right, eventually they will win. Then poo poo is going to get really bad. quote:That said, that tantrum was after a Romney loss. Now imagine that rage dial cranked all the way up to the notch marked "Trump." Deutscher beats Keith in the election, no butterfly to blame this time
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Dec 10, 2015 06:11
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Joementum posted:The deadline is tomorrow at 5pm and the It was past midnight on the clock here so I saw tomorrow's (now today's I guess) date and got confuzzeled. Whoops. and drat, I was hoping for some real fun. Joementum posted:Uh, he's a white man obsessed with money. Story checks out zoux posted:Who are these people? The average voter. When election season comes around, I really recommend people go door knocking with a campaign. After talking to a few hundred people, a whole lot of poo poo starts making sense. By the way: WATCH: Muslim store owner in tears after he’s beaten by New York man on mission to ‘kill Muslims’ Some other pro-reads Toxically Pure an article about the life, perspective, and death, of Joe Bageant who people here would do well to read. He was well ahead of the game and collectively foresaw the housing crisis and recession, Obamacare, and “the 1 percent” as a rhetorical tool. Very useful for understanding the perspective of the white rural poor. Trump Proves That Liberals Have Been Right All Along Challenging the Oligarchy Paul Krugman reviews Robert B. Reich's new book and gives a rundown of some of the current economic and political situations Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 06:20
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s over at The Green Papers have him listed
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I was honestly surprised Bibi came out in disagreement with him. After the whole Holocaust comments thing one would have expected different maybe.
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Dec 10, 2015 06:26
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I think Trump has officially earned himself a special exception to  Congratulations Mr. Trump and also gently caress you buddy
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Dec 10, 2015 06:31
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I thank American Jesus every day for the right to laugh at idiots as they grind this country into the filth. We deserve every suffering we receive.
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Dec 10, 2015 06:33
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It's amazing to watch pundits explain away Trump as someone who's figured out how to capture all those frustrated voters in the Republican Party. Without actually going the next step and analyzing what they are frustrated about. Obviously it's because they can't just call out an entire political base on tv as racists, but it's entertaining in a somewhat terrifying way to watch them dance around the real reason people like trump.
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Dec 10, 2015 06:35
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Fried Chicken posted:That we don't have a coherent, organized opposition left to push against "Trumpism" is a real problem. You're a hell of a lot more optimistic than I am. I don't think that movement has any chance at redemption without being beaten, broken, and forced to accept their total defeat before tapering off close societal oversight over the next 3 generations. It'll be bad before that, but there's no way to productively channel that rage in my opinion. It's going to have to be dug out and the hole cauterized. There's no way to do it without blasting a loving seared crater in their psyche so deep and vast that they feel nagging ancestral shame for a century. There was this kid from my neighborhood, younger than I am and more the age of my youngest brother. He was a little poo poo, hyperactive as gently caress and he would constantly wreck people's flowerbeds, ding their cars with rocks, and harrass any outdoor pets. His parents asked him to go start the family car one day, as a lot of people did since it's a really basic thing to do and it means mom and dad don't have to deal with a Florida-hot car as long as the kid turns the AC on. So this kid goes out there and turns on the car, but somehow knocks the column shifter into reverse. He's like 7, tries getting behind this crown vic to just hold it in the driveway while he yells into the house for his parents or something. It doesn't work. The car rolls over him twice and fetches up against his head after it fetches up against the curb on the opposite side of the street. He's conscious the whole time, terrified of what just happened, while the neighbor talks to him trying to keep him calm and still while the loving helicopter tries to set down in the T intersection about 50 feet away. Long story short he was in a coma for a month but remembered almost everything prior to the helicopter when he woke up. His brain was swollen like a bruised cantaloupe, his ribs were a mess as were his internals but he bounced back like kids do. Didn't even miss much school. That whole powerless terror thing stuck with him though, and his mother still says she has to deal with the sickening fact that he's now a better kid through and through because he thinks about his actions and their consequences beforehand, and he's a better kid because he ran himself over with their car. These fuckers need something like that to haunt their party consciousness for a few generations. e: http://archive.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=35887 - I wasn't making that story up 
FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 06:40
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It's very easy to find out what Trump's political success comes from. There's an entire book on it in fact. It's called "My Struggle". It's a pretty good read, you should check it out.
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Dec 10, 2015 06:41
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