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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Trump plans to visit the Temple Mount, the third holiest site in Islam. Pissing off the israelis and sparking violence between them and palestinians could surely only backfire on him in a general? How many primary candidates have caused a international incident before ?
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Dec 10, 2015 06:43
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CalmDownMate posted:Pissing off the israelis and sparking violence between them and palestinians could surely only backfire on him in a general? How many primary candidates have caused a international incident before ? It will be pretty one sided if it does, and if the Palestinians get smashed by the Israelis in any sort of heightened conflict the base will be all for it.
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Dec 10, 2015 06:45
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http://www.npr.org/2015/12/09/458973053/cruz-wont-criticize-trump-but-offers-his-own-plan-to-bar-refugeesquote:INSKEEP: Let's go on to the other subject very briefly here. We've used so much time, I don't want to use more than a couple of minutes here. But you're on your way, as we're talking, to a hearing on climate change.
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Dec 10, 2015 06:46
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On Terra Firma posted:It will be pretty one sided if it does, and if the Palestinians get smashed by the Israelis in any sort of heightened conflict the base will be all for it. Doesn't matter if a single israeli gets killed because of this it can be used as a attack against him saying he has blood on his hands. I can see the ads already.
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Dec 10, 2015 06:49
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Fried Chicken posted:good post Here's an in-depth essay on Cesar Chavez's different legacies as both a Civil Rights leader and a labor leader, and how posterity has more or less remembered him strictly as a civil rights figure. I think there's a lot to the idea that people don't have any narrative attached to labor struggle where they do for Civil Rights (through the personages of King, Malcolm X, Chavez) and they do for entrepreneurship (people fapping to Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg, etc.). In my view, the long term strategy for working class organizing has to start with electable Dems who will maintain a more liberal NLRB, and an introduction of labor struggle into the public consciousness, some better way to propagandize. And I think a healthy dose of denigrating robber barons like Jobs could help undermine the worship of business leaders.
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Dec 10, 2015 06:50
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CalmDownMate posted:Pissing off the israelis and sparking violence between them and palestinians could surely only backfire on him in a general? How many primary candidates have caused a international incident before ? "Hey man, he's just shakin' things up and being politically incorrect! He doesn't care whose toes he steps on, that's why I like him!" His supporters see nothing wrong with kicking over anthills purely for the sake of it.
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Dec 10, 2015 06:53
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FAUXTON posted:You're a hell of a lot more optimistic than I am. I don't think that movement has any chance at redemption without being beaten, broken, and forced to accept their total defeat before tapering off close societal oversight over the next 3 generations. It'll be bad before that, but there's no way to productively channel that rage in my opinion. It's going to have to be dug out and the hole cauterized. There's no way to do it without blasting a loving seared crater in their psyche so deep and vast that they feel nagging ancestral shame for a century. I wouldn't say I'm any more optimistic than you are. What I'm saying is that the only way you get them "beaten, broken, and forced to accept their total defeat before tapering off close societal oversight over the next 3 generations" is by offering another way to sap away the organization's strength and let those committed to the current movement and the ideas and behaviors we find so repugnant be banished to the political wilderness, lacking the power to do anything, and fading away with time. Who Turned My Blue State Red is a good article on this, but tl;dr - most of the people that this movement are looking to pick up, aren't organized, aren't regular voters. We need another movement out there getting them togehter in some fashion so that the elements we are seeing can't grow, and preferably so that they are turned against the hate we have been seeing.
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Dec 10, 2015 06:54
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nachos posted:It's amazing to watch pundits explain away Trump as someone who's figured out how to capture all those frustrated voters in the Republican Party. Without actually going the next step and analyzing what they are frustrated about. Obviously it's because they can't just call out an entire political base on tv as racists, but it's entertaining in a somewhat terrifying way to watch them dance around the real reason people like trump. it's not just the money-grubbing conviction-less commercial media, though, there's a very large part of the intellectual elite who are desperately wedded to the value pluralist truth is in the middle narrative, where the Republican's must have something worthwhile to say just because so many people believe in it Fried Chicken posted:I wouldn't say I'm any more optimistic than you are. What I'm saying is that the only way you get them "beaten, broken, and forced to accept their total defeat before tapering off close societal oversight over the next 3 generations" is by offering another way to sap away the organization's strength and let those committed to the current movement and the ideas and behaviors we find so repugnant be banished to the political wilderness, lacking the power to do anything, and fading away with time. I don't think the white working class is ever coming back to the left, at least not within any of our lifetimes. That's just the way it is unfortunately, the best thing you can do is depress turnout and try to weaken their political influence as much as possible. They're going to lash out a bunch as their political influence wanes, which is what you're seeing now with Il Duce The Donald icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 06:56
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GalacticAcid posted:
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Dec 10, 2015 07:00
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archangelwar posted:I have been reading some literature on the NICS background checks and some various state laws. Under the existing system, it appears that at the federal level, the FBI can place a hold to delay a purchase without initial due process, and many states have a "subversive group" clause which does not seem that different from the idea of the no fly list, as well as denial at judicial discretion without conviction or existing indictment. It seems that the government position on "due process" and gun purchases is that they are allowed to delay your purchase as long as you have a route to appeal without it being a rights violation. You cannot put a hold on someone without there being some kind of (very) rare confusion in the database if they are someone with a similar name who has actually received a court order of some kind that would bar them from buying a gun. It's not a discretionary thing. The hold is time limited (usually to 72 hrs) and can't be thrown down because some unnaccountable mistake of a sink of taxpayer dollars thought "lol they might do something bad someday." https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/federal-firearms-licensees/a-nics-delay
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Dec 10, 2015 07:08
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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President Cruz will eliminate the three threats to America: ISIS, Russia, and ISIS.
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Dec 10, 2015 07:16
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You can bring the white working class back to the left. You simply have to worry about white issues and use dogwhistle politics. Which has worked in the past. We need to learn from the successes of the past and be pragmatic. FDR's reforms were definite steps forward in the right direction despite the racism that he continued and sometimes encouraged. In general he set the groundwork for policies that improved things for everyone. We must be willing to do things that seem unsavoury for the good of the long term strategy or we will never win. Populism can work. Trumps success here demonstrates that. While much of Trumps rhetoric is right wing - there's no reason his strategy could not be adapted to a left wing focus. And as long as the people around him are intelligent and the person who develops the strategy is intelligent and not a total idiot - this can work. The biggest dangers are corruption and authoritarianism - why we need a FDR, not a Huey Long. I believe one of the biggest blows to our chances of success was the co-opting of the traditional christian values by large corporations who reformed it to meet their corporate needs. There is no greater inspiration for humanism than faith. There's a reason it's called the opiate of the masses. As we saw with the Islamic Caliphates in the 900s - while the rest of the world was persecuting each other - Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived together in peace - thanks to the teachings of Islam and the people who implemented it and the way they implemented it.
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Dec 10, 2015 07:17
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icantfindaname posted:I don't think the white working class is ever coming back to the left, at least not within any of our lifetimes. That's just the way it is unfortunately, the best thing you can do is depress turnout and try to weaken their political influence as much as possible. They're going to lash out a bunch as their political influence wanes, which is what you're seeing now with Il Duce The Donald I'm of the opinion that there's multiple factors in play with this. There are certainly racist shitheads feeling their privileges slipping away, no doubt about that. Those who are primarily motivated by that I'm in agreement with what you say. They're going to vote republican and hope for fascism (though at this point I'm beginning to repeat myself) to screw the other guy harder than it does them so they can feel like they're on top again. I'd say there's also a really big contingent that are being hardcore rat hosed by the financial elite and the economic system set up to siphon wealth out of them into that elite. There's probably a pretty big overlap between the two groups. Many people are both at the same time. If their anger is primarily motivated by the second I think the possibility exists to pick apart the ball of anger-and-fear twine and get that energy pointed at people based on their level of guilt in the rat loving, not the level of melanin in their skin. That's a tall order though because it's so very easy to manipulate people to accept the first by reinforcing the second.
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Dec 10, 2015 07:20
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Fried Chicken posted:I wouldn't say I'm any more optimistic than you are. What I'm saying is that the only way you get them "beaten, broken, and forced to accept their total defeat before tapering off close societal oversight over the next 3 generations" is by offering another way to sap away the organization's strength and let those committed to the current movement and the ideas and behaviors we find so repugnant be banished to the political wilderness, lacking the power to do anything, and fading away with time. Right, but the way you sap the organization's strength isn't by strapping a pillow to their fists until they tire out because it does nothing to demonstrate how harmful they are. They need to be drawn into an all-out fight, goaded into throwing everything they have at the wall, get them so angrily confident in themselves that they lash out and shatter their hand against the bricks as everyone watches, and leave them with a hosed-up hand so they remember that time they thought their poisonous ideology had a chance for the rest of their lives. There was an article a while back about a Turkish schoolteacher who was dealing with refugee kids who'd been brainwashed by Daesh - the kids would sit at their desk just writing "Turks are Kuffar" on their papers all day. What do you do when it isn't kids but adults who are that far gone? You can isolate, mitigate, and reform a classroom of brainwashed kids but a grown adult who managed to apply mature thought to their ideology and still thought it was the right thing to follow? You have to thrash them so hard they're not only demoralized but drat near depatterned, and reform them from that husk. They have to know they have been individually defeated, and they have to know their way of thinking has been defeated. Otherwise they'll just say the last guy wasn't enough of a badass and they'll bore even deeper into the pit.
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Dec 10, 2015 07:22
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The Democrats just need to get ahead of the ball and start being super racist towards the next acceptable target before the Republicans get there, that'll get the poor white demo back on their side. I'm guessing it'll be... the Chinese, again.
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Dec 10, 2015 07:26
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JT Jag posted:The Democrats just need to get ahead of the ball and start being super racist towards the next acceptable target before the Republicans get there, that'll get the poor white demo back on their side.
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Dec 10, 2015 07:29
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nah, as of TYOOL 2015 people have become so desensitized to neoliberal capitalism they're mostly indifferent to the Chinese. it takes a borderline fascist like Trump to even mention them and even then people seem mostly bemused. 1985-vintage japan bashing isn't coming back, also the chinese themselves aren't doing so hot and the doomsday, worst case, China rules the world scenario that might happen is they occupy some islands off the Philippines arabs are still the gold standard clash-of-civilizations boogeymen and will remain so pretty much indefinitely IMO, especially as the ME looks to remain a gaping, bleeding terrorism-spewing chest wound indefinitely icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 07:30
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GalacticAcid posted:In my view, the long term strategy for working class organizing has to start with electable Dems who will maintain a more liberal NLRB, and an introduction of labor struggle into the public consciousness, some better way to propagandize. And I think a healthy dose of denigrating robber barons like Jobs could help undermine the worship of business leaders. icantfindaname posted:I don't think the white working class is ever coming back to the left, at least not within any of our lifetimes. That's just the way it is unfortunately, the best thing you can do is depress turnout and try to weaken their political influence as much as possible. They're going to lash out a bunch as their political influence wanes, which is what you're seeing now with Il Duce The Donald Organizing for the Democratic Party or a similar political figure is certainly one possibility, though I'm inclined to agree with icantfindaname that I am skeptical, primarily because of the success in defining the current and next generations of Democratic politicians as outside of the community. This is a foreseeable result of the ascendancy of identity politics over class politics; not much you can do but play the game. But organizing for a political party is not the only option. There are a multitude of other issues to organize around, and pull away association from other organizations. Localized focus for labor organizing, police reform, zoning reform, crime reduction, non-partisan municipals, even library preservation have all been shown to be effective causes in other communities. We don't need them to agree with us on everything; I'd argue that there isn't even an "us" and that no one here agrees on everything. What we need is them organized around some issue, make them feel they have a voice in the system, that the system will respond to their voice, that it will respond in a way that alleviates their concerns, that they can improve things through cooperation rather than viewing it as a zero sum with other groups. Right now the traditional route to security and advancement for their children, for being, in a word, "respectable", is closed to far too many. Employment is down, wages have been stagnant or declining for 40 years. What little grip they had established is being overwhelmed by rapid demographic and cultural changes giving them perpetual future shock as new neighbors and skillsets out-compete them. The media largely ignores them, and when it does look to these communities it is often with pity or ridicule, both of which are insulting, while simultaneously bombarding them with a message of inferiority for not having the trends and consumer goods of richer urban areas and shaming them for their mistrust or unfamiliarity of outsiders. The system does not respond to their concerns, it is at best distant and unresponsive due to gridlock and ideology; their more common interaction with it is in the form of prisons and cops. Is it any wonder that all these people, enduring all that, are turning to a movement promising to protect "us" from "them", and to make "us" great again, to keep "us" safe again? We've got to offer them a different way, a way to improve their station, a way to feel good about themselves, a way to feel pride and satisfaction in their accomplishments. Because otherwise it will not go away, and they will eventually win.
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Dec 10, 2015 07:34
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FAUXTON posted:Right, but the way you sap the organization's strength isn't by strapping a pillow to their fists until they tire out because it does nothing to demonstrate how harmful they are. They need to be drawn into an all-out fight, goaded into throwing everything they have at the wall, get them so angrily confident in themselves that they lash out and shatter their hand against the bricks as everyone watches, and leave them with a hosed-up hand so they remember that time they thought their poisonous ideology had a chance for the rest of their lives. There was an article a while back about a Turkish schoolteacher who was dealing with refugee kids who'd been brainwashed by Daesh - the kids would sit at their desk just writing "Turks are Kuffar" on their papers all day. What do you do when it isn't kids but adults who are that far gone? You can isolate, mitigate, and reform a classroom of brainwashed kids but a grown adult who managed to apply mature thought to their ideology and still thought it was the right thing to follow? You have to thrash them so hard they're not only demoralized but drat near depatterned, and reform them from that husk. They have to know they have been individually defeated, and they have to know their way of thinking has been defeated. Otherwise they'll just say the last guy wasn't enough of a badass and they'll bore even deeper into the pit. Unless you are planning on actually killing them or disenfranchising them for reconstruction, this simply is not going to work. As you said, all they are going to do is double down and keep working, and in our two party system that means they will eventually win. Unless, and only unless, you can redirect their energy so that they don't bore deeper into the pit. If you do want to treat it like a civil war, and de-Trump-ify the movement after achieving some victory, my first question is "you and what army?", my second is "how long until the ruling class uses this now acceptable way to ideologically purge to come for you?" and my third is "how was the postwar German occupation you seem to be drawing this from not an example of providing an alternative organizing means to rebuild, empower, and improve their station?"
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Dec 10, 2015 07:52
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Fried Chicken posted:Organizing for the Democratic Party or a similar political figure is certainly one possibility, though I'm inclined to agree with icantfindaname that I am skeptical, primarily because of the success in defining the current and next generations of Democratic politicians as outside of the community. This is a foreseeable result of the ascendancy of identity politics over class politics; not much you can do but play the game. But organizing for a political party is not the only option. There are a multitude of other issues to organize around, and pull away association from other organizations. Localized focus for labor organizing, police reform, zoning reform, crime reduction, non-partisan municipals, even library preservation have all been shown to be effective causes in other communities. What conjured them out of the swamps was the unrelenting bombast of a hooting madman. These are people who say "The blacks" without a hint of irony. You're drat right society has turned its back on them, because this behavior wasn't placed into their heads like some inception caper. When they were given the choice to learn how to run a CNC machine instead of crawling into a coal mine for the rest of their lives, they chose the hole in the ground because bah gawd their daddy died in that hole and his daddy died down there with'im and there ain't no way he's changin' that. The system does not respond to their concerns for good reason: The system is better off without responding to their concerns, because their concerns are poo poo like demands to oppress minorities just so they can have someone under their boot just like their boss does. Everything you're talking about here fails to account for Kentuckians voting for Bevin. You can lead a horse to water and you can throw the horse into the water, but if the horse doesn't drink you don't have a lot of options - intubate that fucker and make him drink, or shame him as he dies of thirst. Only one of those two solves the root cause of a stubborn horse. Fried Chicken posted:Unless you are planning on actually killing them or disenfranchising them for reconstruction, this simply is not going to work. As you said, all they are going to do is double down and keep working, and in our two party system that means they will eventually win. Unless, and only unless, you can redirect their energy so that they don't bore deeper into the pit. Or, you can deal with the cycle once every ~150 years or so where evil people get shunned, then they get angry, then they attack, then they get crushed. Each time the victors get a little wiser in handling the aftermath and you end up with either a de facto "hillbilly preserve" where the last of them end their days behind glass treated like zoo animals to be gawked at in their primitiveness by civilized society, or something like modern Germany where they're still averse to anything resembling nazis. Fried Chicken posted:If you do want to treat it like a civil war, and de-Trump-ify the movement after achieving some victory, my first question is "you and what army?", my second is "how long until the ruling class uses this now acceptable way to ideologically purge to come for you?" and my third is "how was the postwar German occupation you seem to be drawing this from not an example of providing an alternative organizing means to rebuild, empower, and improve their station?" Solving this problem doesn't necessarily require an army, because leveraging military force against a political issue gives them an out so they can just skip the accountability aspect of defeat (i.e. it wasn't a fair fight, they had soldiers and we had ballots) and come back with a vengeance. I'm talking about shunning them from society so that they can overdose on meth in their trailers heiling their balls off to the swastika without being a threat to society. I'm talking about media portraying them with ridicule and all but subhuman in their backwards ways so that children grow up knowing only racists wear camouflage outside military service and evangelicals are a sneeze short of blowing up the olympics. I'm all for stoking the mistrust between civilized society and these people, because the progress that drove them into exile in the first place will eventually just pave a road over their grave. Your second question is kind of moot given political involvement and awareness. Third, they hung a lot of people at Nuremburg and locked up a lot more in Spandau. It was a very public "you lost, these are your crimes, you have been tried and found guilty" matter. The extent to which the nazis controlled everything prior to the war makes it a hard fit past that point (because we don't have swathes of people who had to swear fealty to Trump in order to become teachers, etc). Nobody sat down with the guys running the camps to grant legitimacy to their genocide by repurposing their teutonic talent for inhuman efficiency into a solid middle management career, those people got dragged into court, tried for their crimes, and punished. The postwar occupation kept a boot heel hovering before the eyes of anyone who thought they could bring "the old glory days" back, and it seems to have worked there, more or less. They're losing ground with the anti-immigrant poo poo, but at least they're not infested with hillbillies roaming the border waiting for the opportunity to gun down some random Austrian family passing by. e: poo poo like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxWimFepdn4 - alienate their views to the point where they stick out like a sore thumb, deride their way of life to the point where they're met with hostility when they act out, and the second they try to take a swing at someone they get dogpiled and someone is yelling "You ain't doin' that fuckin' poo poo you mother fucker" into their face while they're pinned. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 07:55
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Fried Chicken posted:Unless you are planning on actually killing them or disenfranchising them for reconstruction, this simply is not going to work. As you said, all they are going to do is double down and keep working, and in our two party system that means they will eventually win. Unless, and only unless, you can redirect their energy so that they don't bore deeper into the pit. Don't give them the better alternative they can easily accept and you back them into a corner. All they can do at that point is fight.
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Dec 10, 2015 07:57
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quote:Everything you're talking about here fails to account for Kentuckians voting for Bevin. probably to make sure only the deserving are on it *nod*
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Dec 10, 2015 08:12
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Nevermind, have no idea what just happened here.
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Dec 10, 2015 08:20
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:yeah but now bevin's backing off and just talking about cutting obamacare not eliminating it Straight-up bullshitting has been their trademark since like 2008 when they realized people were onto their poo poo way more than they thought. North Carolina and Wisconsin are good examples of that. Just promise you won't touch labor or healthcare, when you break it, what are they gonna do?
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Dec 10, 2015 08:31
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Lots of moralising and wanting to punish ITT. And people apparently forgetting that the poor whites right now also have children, so you're set to destroy also the minds of these children while offering no alternative, in order to punish their parents and/or grandparents. I asked this elsewhere, but does the US really have no equivalent to the EU structural funds? Struggling communities ought to be able to submit plans and request funds for retraining, infrastructure build/repair etc.. That's how you re-energise them in a positive way. I heard that Clinton had a plan to do this for communities affected by the coal->green change, is that correct?
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Dec 10, 2015 09:58
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Some of the discussion here about trying to reach out to the economic frustrations in rural, poor, white voters about the rigged system and channel that towards specific ad hoc policy even when you disagree about most other policy ideas is not that much different than the strategy that Sanders has talked about in the past. He's not planning on getting agreement on most things, but if you can find the overlap of frustrations and coherently direct it, they can be of use for some change. The problem is that there's a very all-or-nothing approach to US elections thanks to first past the post; people have to hope for their perfect candidate or else get nothing at all.
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Dec 10, 2015 10:16
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Trump plans to visit the Temple Mount, the third holiest site in Islam. Clearly this is a three-step plan and Trump will slowly approach Kaaba so he can touch the black stone and absorb its magical powers, thus turning all Muslims off.
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Dec 10, 2015 10:21
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Trump is going to ascend to heaven to become the Moon God, and thus gain automatic mind control powers over the Muslim hordes
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Dec 10, 2015 11:14
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How can Trump criticize Moon God when he is himself made out of Moon God
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Dec 10, 2015 11:39
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Trump plans to visit the Temple Mount, the third holiest site in Islam. Ohhhhhh, this is a really really bad idea
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Dec 10, 2015 12:18
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meristem posted:Lots of moralising and wanting to punish ITT. And people apparently forgetting that the poor whites right now also have children, so you're set to destroy also the minds of these children while offering no alternative, in order to punish their parents and/or grandparents. The problem is we tried to help these people in the past under the New Deal. As soon as they, and the working class whites that we were more successful in uplifting economically, got their position they turned around and started making GBS threads on the racial minorities further down the ladder. Sorry, the solution can't be to cater to these backward fucks, because then you're throwing away racial, religious, and sexual minorities. These losers have bought into the lie that they are superior to other people because of their skin color, how they pray, or how they gently caress. Someone is finally taking away their undeserved security blanket, and they are willing to fight to have someone underneath them on the economic ladder. Sorry pal, if you want economic justice vote for a socialist, and know that it comes in a package where they don't get a leg up on all those people they put beneath them. If they want to reinstitute outright discrimination so they have someone to rule over, we should be doing our best to gently caress them over at ever opportunity. The good news is that due to demographics, they should become less and less of an issue as time goes on. I'm pretty sure that other groups aren't going to want to team up with white supremacist hill filth, (even the standard dog whistle GOP is balking at it) so if you isolate these guys for an election cycle or three, you can hopefully reduce their power to a managable level. Then it's just pat them on the head, tell them to shut the gently caress up about muslims/blacks/gays, and send in the guard if they try to resist with arms. Sorry, you can't just cater to a backwards culture that's antithetical to modernity and liberal equality just because their great-great-grandaddy was smart enough to GTFO of the hellhole he was stuck in over in Europe. We should be getting rid of standard white suburban racism too, but that seems to be a dying concern among younger people due to the demographic realities of the US.
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Dec 10, 2015 12:56
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Watch Trump start a loving Intifada
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Dec 10, 2015 13:10
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Does the right wing even realize that this kind of poo poo is exactly what loving ISIS wants?
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Dec 10, 2015 13:15
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Hahahahahaha this loving thread "Well, white hillbillies are essentially Nazis, so we need to preemptively throw them into concentration camps and exterminate their culture! We only do this because we are more self-enlightened than those evil racist fucks."
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Dec 10, 2015 13:16
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, said no one ever.
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Dec 10, 2015 13:17
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Trump plans to visit the Temple Mount, the third holiest site in Islam. Wrap it up, Israelures. 
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Dec 10, 2015 13:31
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Cythereal posted:Does the right wing even realize that this kind of poo poo is exactly what loving ISIS wants? No, it's because they hate our freedom and our women walking around and it has nothing ever ever ever to do with our policies concerning Israel or the Middle East. I still see that talking point trotted out on occasion.
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Dec 10, 2015 13:33
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Eschers Basement posted:Hahahahahaha this loving thread Yeah, saying we should lower ourselves to the level of listening to their racist drivel is the same as camping them. Can you give us some hot insights about the coming white genocide while you're at it?
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Dec 10, 2015 13:44
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Joementum posted:Wrap it up, Israelures. How weak!
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Dec 10, 2015 13:45
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meristem posted:Lots of moralising and wanting to punish ITT. And people apparently forgetting that the poor whites right now also have children, so you're set to destroy also the minds of these children while offering no alternative, in order to punish their parents and/or grandparents. Sorry meristem, you're just too sympathetic to white people. We'll be sure to send in the guard for you too, when the time comes.
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Dec 10, 2015 14:02
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