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pookel posted:Yesterday, I heard a story that some gun-rights group is planning to stage a mock mass murder at the University of Texas. I was so appalled that I started wondering whether I was remembering correctly that UT-Austin was the site of the first mass shooting in American history. I wasn't wrong, and I found this excellent 40th anniversary story in Texas Monthly when researching. They tracked down and interviewed dozens of people who were there. This is absolutely a great article. Thanks.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:05
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Texas Monthly has shown up so many times in this thread, and it's always, always excellent. Do they just specialize in well-written longform crime stories?
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Dec 10, 2015 23:24
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Phanatic posted:Does that apply to these guys? They're more like those tea party guys who did the exact same thing three years ago. Except the panthers were protesting and trying to stop overwhelming numbers of unarmed Americans being killed by police. Also like all modern gun control was a result of white people being scared of black men asserting their second-amendment rights.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:33
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benito posted:I wonder if it has anything to do with this upcoming event, which I think is one of the dumbest ideas ever conceived.  "An armed society is a polite society,” he continued. “We love freedom and we’re trying to make more freedom.”
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Dec 11, 2015 09:11
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pookel posted:Texas Monthly has shown up so many times in this thread, and it's always, always excellent. Do they just specialize in well-written longform crime stories? Not as such, but Texas seems to specialise in crimes. And guns.
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Dec 11, 2015 11:19
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Solice Kirsk posted:Didn't they already do this and like 11 of the 12 concealed carry people were outright killed by the gunmen and the only one that survived did so because she ran away instead of trying to fight them? Nah, that was a reenactment of Charlie Hebdo but with armed civilians and yeah, the only person who would've survived was the one who ran away. Apparently they don't have a permit or permission to be on campus so if they try this they'll be arrested.
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Dec 11, 2015 13:35
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I'm still surprised that even after all these attacks, after the failed hebdo reenactment, after cc dudes died while trying to be heroes, people still think if random people started pulling out guns during an attack things would end just peachy. For anyone on the fence, the easiest way to realize the danger is this: if, in a crowded dark theater in Texas lets say, you hear some gunshots and screaming from in front of you. You have a gun, so you pull it out. All of a sudden you see a guy 20 feet ahead in a group waving a gun around. Do you shoot him? Or is he just another bystander with a gun? Now say you see him shoot, could he just be shooting at the guy who started it all? If you shoot him and it turns out he was innocent, then what? Realistically you'll probably be dead from some other person shooting you, or you'll have 10 people tackle you and break some bones because they assume you're a shooter. There's really no scenario besides a dude alone, with no one around in broad daylight taking pot shots at people where things won't spiral out of control when more guns are added to the mix. To tie it into the thread a little, I'm pretty unnerved by op eds that try to convince people that pulling a gun during an active shooting is a good idea. I'm also reminded of the guy who's response to that point was "well, I'm not a terrorist so I'd be fine", ignoring the fact that no one else in the situation would know that. The Gasmask has a new favorite as of 16:07 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 16:03
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The only happy ending I've ever heard of involving a concealed carry guy was when one shot a robber in the back at a grocery store a while back. There was also that guy in Texas who killed a prostitute because she refused to give him a refund.
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Dec 11, 2015 16:13
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Wasn't there the one where a guy tried to shoot a carjacker but instead shot the driver in the head? So then he picked up the bullet casings and ran away.
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Dec 11, 2015 16:22
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The Gasmask posted:For anyone on the fence, the easiest way to realize the danger is this: if, in a crowded dark theater in Texas lets say, you hear some gunshots and screaming from in front of you. You have a gun, so you pull it out. All of a sudden you see a guy 20 feet ahead in a group waving a gun around. Do you shoot him? Or is he just another bystander with a gun? That's a good persuasive argument. Not that I was pro-gun to begin with but it illustrates the confusion that would ensue from such a scene.
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Dec 11, 2015 16:32
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Beige posted:That's a good persuasive argument. Not that I was pro-gun to begin with but it illustrates the confusion that would ensue from such a scene. I'm not anti-gun, to make that clear, but I do believe that the majority of people, me included, shouldn't have access to weapons. Any situation where a gun could potentially prove useful is greatly outweighed by the many situations where a gun will make things worse. A big part of what shaped my current views was reading about the crowd crush stuff. While I've held the idea that most people would just kill the wrong person for a while, seeing just how destructive crowds of innocent unarmed people can get has really strengthened my views. Even just the fact that crowd crushes aren't "hooligans" faults but society just can't accept that these things happen due to systemic failures. And reading about the guy in Tulsa (IIRC) who nearly shot a person tackling the attacker... in my mind it's just a matter of time until that occurs on a larger scale, and I fear that will just push pro-carry people further away from reasonable discourse. If it happens, I expect a ton of "Well, I would've known who the real terrorist was!" The Gasmask has a new favorite as of 16:55 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 16:53
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There is a list of about 10 or 12 shootings where the shooter was subdued or shot by someone who was considered a private citizen with a conceal and carry permit. I wasn't familiar with any of the incidents, so I can't comment on if they are examples of "good guy with a gun" that the NRA likes to talk about, but about half of them the subduing appears to happen after the active shooting was over and the shooter was leaving the premises. About half of the total 10 or so were performed by military or former military personnel ("acting as a private citizen at the time"). Here is the least bias source (as in the source, the Washington Post, not necessarily the article) I could find that contained such a list. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/ I think not only letting but expecting private citizens with little to no training to deal with active shooter situations is foolish to say the least, but there you have it.
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Dec 11, 2015 16:53
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pookel posted:Texas Monthly has shown up so many times in this thread, and it's always, always excellent. Do they just specialize in well-written longform crime stories? They do all sorts of longform articles. A 12-month digital subscription is only USD$14.99 and hella worth it.
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Dec 11, 2015 17:08
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The Gasmask posted:To tie it into the thread a little, I'm pretty unnerved by op eds that try to convince people that pulling a gun during an active shooting is a good idea. Here's an easy test for this sort of thing: What color is the man with the gun? Brown = Terrorist Black = Criminal White = Hero
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Dec 11, 2015 17:09
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The funny thing about the idea of "well if everyone had a weapon the shooter would have been subdued earlier" assumes that people carrying guns can act as practical rational people when pulling a gun as opposed to scared out of their skulls people shaking a weapon around trying to be some kind of hero. Yes, people like to think that if they were presented in some situation that could rise to the occasion and save lives and such, but really unless they have training or some unnatural brave streak they would be just as scared as an umarmed person.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:41
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One of the interesting things about the Texas tower sniper is that it was a rare situation in which "good guys with guns" could be helpful, and were. He was a hidden sniper slowly picking off people from a distance; it wasn't a situation where anyone would be shooting into a confused crowd. The local cops were poorly equipped to deal with a sniper, as they only had handguns and shotguns. A number of civilians in the area were experienced hunters with hunting rifles, which were more appropriate weapons to deal with a sniper. The result was that people shooting back at Charles Whitman kept him ducking and popping up to shoot, rather than being able to continue slowly picking people off; without those guys shooting back, he'd have had a lot more kills. This isn't an argument in favor of good guys with guns, of course - just an illustration that every situation is different, and it's more complicated than "civilians with guns good" vs. "civilians with guns bad."
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Dec 11, 2015 18:43
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Gripen5 posted:About half of the total 10 or so were performed by military or former military personnel ("acting as a private citizen at the time").
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Dec 11, 2015 18:46
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Rondette posted:
Well you see, when a daddy freedom and a mommy freedom love each other very much...
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Dec 11, 2015 18:56
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And last night's Daily Show actually addressed the whole good guy with a gun thing. Worth checking out.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:56
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there is literally no reason for anyone to own a gun ever so can we please go back to talking about creepy poo poo instead of having a gun control talk thanks
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Dec 11, 2015 20:25
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Montalvo posted:there is literally no reason for anyone to own a gun ever so can we please go back to talking about creepy poo poo instead of having a gun control talk thanks Join me in being the change you want to see in the thread! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kelly_Anne_Bates Murder of Kelly Anne Bates posted:Kelly Anne Bates (18 May 1978 – 16 April 1996) was a British teenager who was murdered in Manchester on 16 April 1996 when aged 17.[1][2] She was tortured over a period of four weeks, including having her eyes gouged from their sockets up to three weeks before her death, by her partner James Patterson Smith (born c. 1948) before being drowned in a bathtub.[3] She was 17 at the time of her death. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_time_hypothesis Phantom time hypothesis posted:The phantom time hypothesis is a historical conspiracy theory advanced by German historian and publisher Heribert Illig (born 1947) which proposes that the Anno Domini dating system was fabricated, adding in a period of "phantom time" in the Early Middle Ages, from AD 614 to 911. According to the hypothesis, events dated to this period in Europe and neighbouring regions either occurred in a different period, or did not occur at all.
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Dec 11, 2015 21:42
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quote:She was tortured over a period of four weeks Content: this site will tell you who in history was executed on any given day of the year. Defaults to today, but you can look up your birthday for kicks: http://www.executedtoday.com/ And an even less tortuous one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Mancha_Negra quote:La Mancha Negra (The Black Stain) is a mysterious black substance that has oozed from roads in Caracas, Venezuela which first appeared in 1986. Since the appearance of La Mancha Negra, it has caused multiple car accidents and claimed thousands of lives. Finding the cause of the substance has proven difficult and there are still no definitive explanations. pookel has a new favorite as of 22:19 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 22:08
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Nothing too crazy here, just your run of the mill " Pedophile Cannibal Christian TV Show Puppeteer" story. http://www.mediaite.com/online/this-story-about-an-arrested-florida-puppeteer-is-probably-going-to-make-you-vomit/
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Dec 11, 2015 23:00
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What unnerves me most is that someone thought that was a piece of writing that deserved to be an article on their site.
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Dec 11, 2015 23:51
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Regrettable posted:Apparently they don't have a permit or permission to be on campus so if they try this they'll be Fixed. White people with guns are given incredible leeway by law enforcement.
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Dec 11, 2015 23:56
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Nothing too crazy here, just your run of the mill " Pedophile Cannibal Christian TV Show Puppeteer" story. It's fun imagining his puppet being locked in an evidence locker somewhere for the next thirty years and then some poor clerk finds the box and you got yourself a pre-restoration Hoggle situation on your hands. Now if you want my opinion on the matter, which you do not but gently caress you it's my thread, people owning guns is okay but irresponsible use of them is not. That means storing them, caring for them, etc locking that poo poo up away from kids. I strongly believe in ONE reason to own a gun - I live in an area where many still hunt not for sport, but put meat on the table and in their freezer. Something about a privileged city kid saying they can't do that rubs me the wrong way. There's also a whole economy based around hunters up here. But then again there'd still be bow hunting season, which imo is more sporting anyway, and also I'd like to see someone try to conceal carry a compound bow, so gently caress it ban everything but bows.
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Dec 12, 2015 00:59
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Wedemeyer posted:Join me in being the change you want to see in the thread! Okay, I finally encountered something in this thread that I wish I'd never read, so I'm going to pretend very hard that I didn't. (It went straight to hell with her eyes, then somehow still managed to get worse.) You'd think somebody could scoop some of this stuff up and analyze it. Seems like they haven't, have just tried poking it, scraping and washing it.
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Dec 12, 2015 06:49
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Snopes' Twitter just posted this: http://www.snopes.com/rachel-hoffman/ In short: She was a 23 year old college student arrested for pot possession and the cops decided to use her in a sting op with more serious drug and weapons dealers to reduce her charges. The dealers found her wire and killed her on the spot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Rachel_Hoffman E: quote:The Tallahassee Police Department admitted that Hoffman had no training to work undercover, she did not know the two men targeted in the sting, and she had no experience with cocaine or firearms and very little with MDMA. The officers involved in the operation were suspended with pay, and the family filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the city. E2: Same thing happened to another guy just a year ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Andrew_Sadek Mak0rz has a new favorite as of 07:49 on Dec 12, 2015 |
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Dec 12, 2015 07:40
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FourLeaf posted:Something disturbing I remember reading a while back was an article by a woman describing how when she was a young child her father and younger sister drowned in an apartment pool when she was right there. There was no one else swimming that day, just the three of them. An additional contribution on the unnerving front - news organizations may be pretty ghoulish in their coverage of tragedies now, but holy hell they weren't any better in the past. When the Lockerbie bombing occurred, news crews reached JFK airport in time to film the reactions of family members finding out that the plane had gone down. I don't think the networks today would get away with more than a single inadvertant live broadcast, and the clip is usually left out of documentaries on the bombing, but the footage of a woman named Jeannine Boulanger learning that her youngest daughter had died was broadcast over and over on the nightly news in the immediate aftermath. It's the most harrowing expression of grief I've ever heard (just after 13.45) and its being immediately followed by jaunty Xmas commercials is very  to say the least: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaxYkgKf_yo&t=23s Apraxin has a new favorite as of 08:47 on Dec 12, 2015 |
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Dec 12, 2015 08:39
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During the Columbine High School spree shooting, CNN had reporters talking to a kid in the school on his phone while the shooting was still taking place.
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Dec 12, 2015 16:22
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Mak0rz posted:Snopes' Twitter just posted this: http://www.snopes.com/rachel-hoffman/ I can't imagine how many lives the War on Drugs has ruined.
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Dec 12, 2015 18:25
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Filox posted:Okay, I finally encountered something in this thread that I wish I'd never read, so I'm going to pretend very hard that I didn't. (It went straight to hell with her eyes, then somehow still managed to get worse.) Yup, easily one of the worst things I've read in a while.
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Dec 12, 2015 18:36
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FourLeaf posted:I can't imagine how many lives the War on Drugs has ruined. Its six
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Dec 12, 2015 20:31
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Come on, it's at least 12.
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Dec 12, 2015 20:34
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RCarr posted:Come on, it's at least 12. I can give you 10 but that's my final offer You're not a cop, right? You have to tell me if you are
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Dec 12, 2015 20:38
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pookel posted:OK can we go back to gun chat now, tia Jezz, that site has some doozies quote:December 11th, 2010 Headsman
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Dec 12, 2015 21:23
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So the Lewisville lake dam might fail. http://interactives.dallasnews.com/2015/lewisville-dam/ quote:It is currently ranked as Dam Safety Action Class 2, with “very high” risk and “failure initiation foreseen.” But the Corps is weighing whether to raise this to Class 1, the category for dams that are “extremely high” risk and “critically near failure” and require immediate action to avoid catastrophe. quote:With a full reservoir behind it, a 65-foot-tall flood wave traveling 34 mph would quickly inundate a wide swath of Lewisville, Coppell, Carrollton, Farmers Branch, Irving, Las Colinas and other communities bordering the Trinity River.
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Dec 12, 2015 21:54
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I like how they go for property damage figures instead of casualty numbers
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Dec 12, 2015 23:02
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Literally Kermit posted:Now if you want my opinion on the matter, which you do not but gently caress you it's my thread, people owning guns is okay but irresponsible use of them is not. That means storing them, caring for them, etc locking that poo poo up away from kids. This is what it's all about. When you take emotions and political wrangling out of the equation, that's all that most of us gun owners want. Those of us who own, shoot, and carry guns are well aware of the responsibilities that come with it and, if you ever took the time to listen to what we have to say instead of the usual talking points fed to you by the liberal media, you'd know that the thing that is first and foremost in our minds when dealing with anything having to do with guns is safety. If you took the time to learn anything about the NRA, that's what they are about - the safe and responsible use of firearms. Speaking only for myself here; I didn't just stroll into a pawn shop and plunk down $50. for a Saturday night special and then tuck it in my belt and start strutting around like Clint Eastwood. Both my wife and I are ex-military (she did 4 years active and 10 years reserve. I retired after 20) and attended a class to get our CCW permits. The majority of the class (about 9/10) was devoted to the safe and correct handling of firearms, and when, where, and under what circumstances you are allowed to use deadly force (i.e. shoot someone). The application process also included a rigorous background check. We are both meticulous when it comes to storing our guns and ammo, and when our kids were young, we taught them all about gun safety. We hate irresponsible gun owners probably more than you do because it makes us look bad and people tend to lump us in with the rest of those idiots. Guns are not the problem any more than knives, chainsaws, scissors, automobiles, gasoline, or anything else that can be used to commit mass murder.
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Dec 12, 2015 23:48
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Cat Army
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MightyJoe36 posted:This is what it's all about. When you take emotions and political wrangling out of the equation, that's all that most of us gun owners want. Source your quotes
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Dec 13, 2015 00:02
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