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BobHoward posted:That guy in the HN thread is a bit incoherent in his rant and has entirely too high an opinion of RMS, but he's not wrong about ESR. Don Hopkins, an old-timer who was there at the start of RMS's free software crusade. Has a track record of achievement himself. He's big on RMS, but frankly RMS built seriously impressive portions of our world.
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Dec 10, 2015 13:45
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Yeah I'm not having any difficulty making a decision given the choice between RMS and ESR.
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Dec 10, 2015 17:26
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Given the choice between ESR and a sea-sick crocodile, I would pick the latter.
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Dec 10, 2015 17:31
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neonnoodle posted:Yeah I'm not having any difficulty making a decision given the choice between RMS and ESR. To be fair, open source is better than free software because libertarians wash.
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Dec 10, 2015 20:59
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So having read half the thread at this point, am I correct in my assessment that DE guys are basically wannabe Caesar's Legion from Fallout: New Vegas?
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Dec 10, 2015 22:20
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Deified Data posted:So having read half the thread at this point, am I correct in my assessment that DE guys are basically wannabe Caesar's Legion from Fallout: New Vegas? A fairly accurate assessment actually.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:23
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Klaus88 posted:A fairly accurate assessment actually. The obvious difference is the Legion are luddites and DE worship the Omnissiah from Warhammer 40K, but both seem to have equal enthusiasm for replacing culture with adherence to ancient archetypes, slavery of women and profligates, social darwinism, ~edgelord~ card-carrying villainy, and likely late-night buggery among their ranks.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:31
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If fascism is a disease of the body politic, neoreaction is chuunibyou.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:34
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Peel posted:chuunibyou. You're going to have to explain this because I typed it into Wikipedia and got weird schoolgirl anime.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:48
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Woolie Wool posted:You're going to have to explain this because I typed it into Wikipedia and got weird schoolgirl anime. Adolescent delusions of grandeur, especially the kind where you think of yourself as some kind of anime antihero. Calling your movement the Dark Enlightenment is probably a sign of it. Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 23:57 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 23:54
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Deified Data posted:So having read half the thread at this point, am I correct in my assessment that DE guys are basically wannabe Caesar's Legion from Fallout: New Vegas? ...you know, this explains a lot of the criticism of the NCR from nerds arguing points. I remember the phrase "decadent" being levied at it repeatedly, the fate of democracy is to destroy itself with corruption, etc.
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Dec 11, 2015 00:03
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I think there's also the issue that the NCR by its nature will break the Fallout status quo if it becomes a stable, mature state. A functioning democracy is not a post-apocalyptic Mad Max hellhole, and nerds don't like "IPs" either changing or ending so the Fallout universe must stay the same forever and churn out game after identical game until the actual nuclear apocalypse happens.
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Dec 11, 2015 00:06
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Ronwayne posted:...you know, this explains a lot of the criticism of the NCR from nerds arguing points. I remember the phrase "decadent" being levied at it repeatedly, the fate of democracy is to destroy itself with corruption, etc.
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Dec 11, 2015 00:13
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Roko's basilisk in popular culture:Apparently-popular musician Grimes posted:4. Roccoco Basilisk: "I don't know if you've heard of Roko's Basilisk." [This character's inspired by the concept.] "She's doomed to be eternally tortured by an artificial intelligence, but she's also kind of like Marie Antoinette." Ten years ago (good Lord) I got the Wikipedia article on Xenu to featured status. When Tom Cruise hit the media big time for being a Scientologist loon shortly after, every media story was quoting sentences I'd written. This is the indie equivalent of that.
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Dec 11, 2015 01:40
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Now for the inevitable derail about how Cesar's legion isn't actually all that bad, seriously you guys, they may be rampaging manics who kill or enslave everyone that doesn't fall in line but at least they bring order to the wastes!  Ugh.
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Dec 11, 2015 02:21
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Klaus88 posted:Now for the inevitable derail about how Cesar's legion isn't actually all that bad, seriously you guys, they may be rampaging manics who kill or enslave everyone that doesn't fall in line but at least they bring order to the wastes! I think that's what this guy's saying. If you can understand him. "Sure, they enslave women and use them as procreation machines but remember that democracy is what led to the Great War in the first place" I think what a lot of Legion spergs miss is that pre-War America was already pretty drat fascist. If you're going to bet on a fascist at least back a relatively reasonable one like House. Deified Data has a new favorite as of 02:34 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 02:31
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When I played New Vegas I considered working with the NCR to not just be the right thing to do but also the blindingly obvious thing to do. It's just a no-brainer. Lunatic edgelord wannabe Romans, a paranoid egomaniac authoritarian, a needy, crazy robot army commander...or an actual country with an actual functioning state and actual rule of law.
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Dec 11, 2015 02:41
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Deified Data posted:So having read half the thread at this point, am I correct in my assessment that DE guys are basically wannabe Caesar's Legion from Fallout: New Vegas? I swear a serious Ceaser's Legion defender showed up in the NV thread. He was hilarious. As an old transhumanist I had to follow House, who's probably closer to the LessWrong side.
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Dec 11, 2015 02:41
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Klaus88 posted:Now for the inevitable derail about how Cesar's legion isn't actually all that bad, seriously you guys, they may be rampaging manics who kill or enslave everyone that doesn't fall in line but at least they bring order to the wastes! Hard men making the hard choice to gently caress over everybody but themselves.
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Dec 11, 2015 02:43
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Woolie Wool posted:When I played New Vegas I considered working with the NCR to not just be the right thing to do but also the blindingly obvious thing to do. It's just a no-brainer. Lunatic edgelord wannabe Romans, a paranoid egomaniac authoritarian, a needy, crazy robot army commander...or an actual country with an actual functioning state and actual rule of law. Note, certain individuals within the NCR need to be set on fire, but those are individuals, not the entire thing.
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Dec 11, 2015 02:48
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Woolie Wool posted:When I played New Vegas I considered working with the NCR to not just be the right thing to do but also the blindingly obvious thing to do. It's just a no-brainer. Lunatic edgelord wannabe Romans, a paranoid egomaniac authoritarian, a needy, crazy robot army commander...or an actual country with an actual functioning state and actual rule of law. Yeah that or the "kill house and take his place and also you're the best person in the universe who has no flaws and can't be corrupted by absolute power" routes seem like the good endings to me. My friend, who's read much more DE nonsense than I have because he finds it hilarious, says he's seen them straight-up defend Caesar as the good guys so yeah.
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Dec 11, 2015 05:34
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Woolie Wool posted:When I played New Vegas I considered working with the NCR to not just be the right thing to do but also the blindingly obvious thing to do. It's just a no-brainer. Lunatic edgelord wannabe Romans, a paranoid egomaniac authoritarian, a needy, crazy robot army commander...or an actual country with an actual functioning state and actual rule of law. No poo poo. If New Vegas was supposed to present an actual legitimate choice between the Legion and the NCR it colossally failed.
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Dec 11, 2015 05:48
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I went with House in that game but this was mostly motivated by finding the NCR piss boring in a fictional RPG territory.DStecks posted:No poo poo. If New Vegas was supposed to present an actual legitimate choice between the Legion and the NCR it colossally failed.
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Dec 11, 2015 05:59
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DStecks posted:No poo poo. If New Vegas was supposed to present an actual legitimate choice between the Legion and the NCR it colossally failed. On the other hand, I think it's great that the game gives you the freedom to make a completely horrific set of choices; doing good stuff only really has weight if you have the option to do otherwise, and aren't just getting railroaded into being the hero. The error that these folks are making is similar to the one they make regarding left-wing vs right-wing movements, in that they believe that if there are two opposing viewpoints, both sides must in some sense be equally valid (or invalid).
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Dec 11, 2015 06:09
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Lamprey Cannon posted:The error that these folks are making is similar to the one they make regarding left-wing vs right-wing movements, in that they believe that if there are two opposing viewpoints, both sides must in some sense be equally valid (or invalid). The "error" they're making is that they're trying to be as edgy as possible and everything that's obviously considered good by society must actually be bad and the rest of it is just justifications for that guttural reaction.
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Dec 11, 2015 06:19
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Things Legion did right:
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Dec 11, 2015 07:21
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Peel posted:If fascism is a disease of the body politic, neoreaction is chuunibyou. Woolie Wool posted:You're going to have to explain this because I typed it into Wikipedia and got weird schoolgirl anime.
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Dec 11, 2015 11:02
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DStecks posted:No poo poo. If New Vegas was supposed to present an actual legitimate choice between the Legion and the NCR it colossally failed. I think the idea was that the wastes were supposed to be so lawless, so barbaric, that once everyone gave in to their evil desires ala Fist of the North Star, the only kind of order that could be imposed upon that kind of barbarism was the unflinching hand of Caesar. A sort of "the only thing these people understand is force, so we must become the most forceful body out there". Of course, a lot of the deeper insight into the Legion was supposed to come from Ulysses who was going to be your Legion counterpart to Boone. But he got cut so all we're left with is wandering into a town on fire with everyone crucified and some dude in a wolf hat goes "Naw dude, they totally deserved it." But I think the main point these DE types want to focus on is that "these savages only understand shows of force" bit. Only without a post-nuclear-apocalypse to back up their claims it's just biotruths, evo-psych, and racism all the way down. To be less video-gamey about this, while still being a pop-culture goober, they're basically all just pretending to be Tom Buchanan from The Great Gatsby.
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Dec 11, 2015 11:59
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Rope kid talked at length on these forums about them, since he wrote them (I believe). The idea was that Ceasars legion offered stability that the NCR didn't, but we didn't get to see any legion areas due to cuts for time. But I mean that said I think it's a pretty weak choice (stability with horrific actions is like the definition of fascist), ESPECIALLY when you're operating off of what the game shows and not outside author content.
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Dec 11, 2015 13:19
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The other thing is that Obsidian apparently didn't have the time and money to put everything they wanted into the game, and the Legion territory is mostly what suffered.
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Dec 11, 2015 13:59
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RagnarokAngel posted:Rope kid talked at length on these forums about them, since he wrote them (I believe). The idea was that Ceasars legion offered stability that the NCR didn't, but we didn't get to see any legion areas due to cuts for time. gently caress it, Caesar is ISIS and House is Assad, so gently caress Caesar anyway.
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Dec 11, 2015 16:25
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No gods, no master's all the way down.
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Dec 11, 2015 17:05
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Woolie Wool posted:
Didn't Chris Fields vaporize the NCR off screen between NV and 4th, or at least, he very much wants to in order to preserve the order of eating 300 year old cup-o-noodle you find in burned out gas stations forever?
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Dec 11, 2015 19:20
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Ronwayne posted:Didn't Chris Fields vaporize the NCR off screen between NV and 4th, or at least, he very much wants to in order to preserve the order of eating 300 year old cup-o-noodle you find in burned out gas stations forever? I think it's just that 4 takes place back on the boring, dumb East Coast.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:52
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Sorry for derailing this even further, but you guys are overestimating how effective NCR really is. The points made are absolutely correct, especially them being the best choice when siding with a faction, but NCR is far from the stabilizing force you're making them out to be. They easily have another century or so before they even have a presence in the rest of the former United States, let alone gain control.
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Dec 11, 2015 20:26
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Well, yeah, but the point is they're one of the few groups that's even really trying. They have agriculture, a police and military, courts, etc. They might not be completely fair courts, considering they have a lot of the flaws of real world societies, but they're there.
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Dec 11, 2015 20:30
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There is not a thread on SA immune to the Fallout curse.
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Dec 11, 2015 20:38
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Abyss gazing re: talking about nerd media, etc.
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Dec 11, 2015 21:01
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The Vosgian Beast posted:There is not a thread on SA immune to the Fallout curse. I'm sorry.
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Dec 11, 2015 21:12
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https://youtu.be/vYQo6LI3Y7c relevant
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Dec 11, 2015 21:25
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