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Irony Be My Shield posted:They never said his fear when he left was due to the hybrid. It's just an extension of 'the Doctor runs away' theme they've been doing for ages No, the explicitly say he's been lying about leaving Gallifrey due to boredom, and the truth is because he's scared of the hybrid prophecy and he's role in it.
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Dec 10, 2015 21:23
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Irony Be My Shield posted:They never said his fear when he left was due to the hybrid. It's just an extension of 'the Doctor runs away' theme they've been doing for ages MrL_JaKiri posted:The Romans is good fun "Oh? Well I don't think I'm under any obligation to report my movements to you Chesterfield." 
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Dec 10, 2015 21:32
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Dr. Gene Dango MD posted:They heavily inferred it three times, once by Davros, the other time in the confession dial and a third time in the cloister room. While you're right, he never said "I left Gallifrey because I was scared of the Hybrid" I don't know what else it could be. I thought he explicitly said that in Heaven Sent? I must be misremembering it then.
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Dec 10, 2015 21:37
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Dr. Gene Dango MD posted:
the space museum is good fun.
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Dec 10, 2015 21:44
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Stabbatical posted:I thought he explicitly said that in Heaven Sent? I must be misremembering it then. He didn't say it.
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Dec 10, 2015 21:50
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I do have to admit that everytime somebody refers to the bad guy in Project: Lazarus as "Nimrod" it sounds to me like they're calling him a moron  Dr. Gene Dango MD posted:I want to watch some Hartnell but I'm caught between The Romans and The Space Museum. Could someone please recommend one of the two? The Romans, it's so great. Dr. Gene Dango MD posted:While you're right, he never said "I left Gallifrey because I was scared of the Hybrid" I don't know what else it could be. The problem (and I think it is actually done with good intentions) is that Moffat is being very deliberately vague - he has the Doctor suggest things without outright saying them, leaving it up to the other characters (and viewers at home) to (mis)interpret at their own peril. There are even later scenes in the episode where characters hammer home to others that the so-called prophecy is incredibly vague and open to multiple interpretations - the Doctor to the General, Me to the Doctor etc. So it's an absolutely valid complaint that Moffat wants to have his cake and eat it too, but I don't think it is valid to claim that he has laid out some concrete facts about the Doctor's past. All we "learned" from Heaven Sent and Hell Bent is that the Doctor ran away from Gallifrey because he was scared. That's something that RTD already laid out in The Sound of Drums. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 21:55
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even if it was explicit, I think it'll be forgotten like "the doctor had eight previous lives before hartnell", "the doctor's greatest fear is the cracks to gallifrey", "the master is only evil because of a drumbeat in his (now her) head", "human on his mother's side", etc and really, it's hard to write a character while never establishing anything new about them, a lot of doctor facts vary froma showrunner to showrunner basis. Hemingway To Go! fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 22:09
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Be warned about The Romans though, it features explicit sexual content!
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Dec 10, 2015 22:14
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Is this part of the episode? All this time I thought it was just footage of Hartnell loving around on set. I think my favourite bit of Hell Bent was Me sitting on a comfy chair at the very end of time watching the universe die out. I don't think we've spent enough time with Me for that to have the impact it might have. But the concept of an immortal outlasting the Universe and just chilling as it implodes is a great one. It also, from re-watching Utopia, makes her just under 100 Trillion years old. Which is just obscene.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:56
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Jerusalem posted:Be warned about The Romans though, it features explicit sexual content! If the TARDIS is a-rockin', don't come a-knockin' (four times or not)?
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Dec 10, 2015 23:18
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Jerusalem posted:All we "learned" from Heaven Sent and Hell Bent is that the Doctor ran away from Gallifrey because he was scared. That's something that RTD already laid out in The Sound of Drums. That the Doctor had a specific, tangible reason for running away from Gallifrey has also been around since Remembrance of the Daleks, too.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:36
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Anyone want to know what Terry Nation's US Dalek series would have been like, Big Finish did an adaptation of the pilot in their Lost Stories range. It was released in a set with the Second Doctor story "Prison in Space".
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Dec 11, 2015 00:00
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Jerusalem posted:Be warned about The Romans though, it features explicit sexual content! Doctorin' the TARDIS.
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Dec 11, 2015 00:13
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Dr. Gene Dango MD posted:I want to watch some Hartnell but I'm caught between The Romans and The Space Museum. Could someone please recommend one of the two? Both stories have fun parts but Romans suffers more from early Who padding than Space Museum did, in my opinion. Both have some excellent character moments and might get a smile on your face so pick whichever.
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Dec 11, 2015 00:24
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Acne Rain posted:and really, it's hard to write a character while never establishing anything new about them, a lot of doctor facts vary froma showrunner to showrunner basis. This story is dead easy to retcon of course... Ohila : When last we spoke, you told us you fled Gallifrey because of the Hybrid -- Thirteenth Doctor: Ah yes, a clever lie. Since the main plot point of the episode was that The Doctor wanted to save Clara and was manipulating the situation to that end, on reflection there's no need to take anything he said leading up to that as fact.
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Dec 11, 2015 00:47
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Don't think this has been pointed out, apologies if it has: I was looking at the script for Heaven Sent on the BBC website (here) and "Me" is indeed capitalised on the final line ("the Hybrid [...] is Me"), for whatever that's worth. I'm still not entirely sure what the point of the Doctor saying that was, if he was referring to Ashildr then presumably it wasn't just a ploy to make them scared of him.
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Dec 11, 2015 01:31
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I watched The Romans and found it very enjoyable. Lots of nice little character moments. I miss pure historicals, they feel much more grounded than "something's fishy...aliens".
Dr. Gene Dango MD fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 01:51
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 Picking up a distress call from the edge of the known universe,the Doctor and Sarah Jane find themselves on Zeta Minorwhere a geological team has run afoul of some strange goings on... Tom Baker is the Doctor in Planet of Evil. X X X X X Cast Doctor Who - Tom Baker Sarah Jane Smith - Elisabeth Sladen Vishinsky - Ewen Solon Sorenson - Frederick Jaeger Salamar - Prentis Hancock Morelli - Michael Wisher De Haan - Graham Weston Ponti - Louis Mahoney Braun - Terence Brook Baldwin - Tony McEwan O'Hara - Haydn Wood Reig - Melvyn Bedford Producer: Philip Hinchcliffe Writer: Louis Marks Director: David Maloney Original Broadcast: 27 September – 18 October 1975 Trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OKKgUo2Ce4 X X X X X Planet of Evil is a story that borrows heavily from the classic tale of Jekyll and Hyde. There's some great acting and there's some horrible acting. There are some silly looking monsters who stalk their victims among some of the best set design every put together in the classic era. Lucky for the viewers, the good outweighs the bad enough to make this a watchable story that some viewers will love and some viewers will find a bit “blah.” A distress calls brings the Doctor and Sarah Jane Smith to Zeta Minor, the last planet in the known universe. Also answering the distress signal is a Morestran probe ship captained by the brash Salamar, ordered to see what has become of a scientific party led by Professor Sorenson who were tasked to study the jungle planet in an effort to solve their planet's energy needs. Sorenson, the sole survivor of his expedition after a series of mysterious murders, has indeed found the answer – a vein of incredibly efficient crystals whose energy output could equal that of their planet's sun! But the crystals are not of this universe. Zeta Minor sits on the edge of the known universe and a universe comprised entirely of anti-matter, and the planet will not allow the crystals to be taken from the surface, sending a wave of nearly invisible creatures to kill anyone who tries. But Sorenson will not be denied his chance at scientific success, even if the presence of the crystals is causing him to change into something much more brutish... Planet of Evil was the first story under Philip Hinchcliffe's time as producer that wasn't a carry over from the previous production team. Terror of the Zygons was supposed to be the finale for the twelfth season, but was pushed forward to season thirteen to allow Doctor Who to have an earlier premiere date to counter ITV's new science fiction show Space: 1999. Hinchcliffe, along with Robert Holmes, have been wanting to take the show in a different direction away from what Hinchcliffe called “the alien in a rubber suit” style of story, wanting stories that were a little more mature while maintaining the show's science fiction mystique. Bringing about Louis Marks as a writer (Planet of the Giants, Day of the Daleks) and employing Roger Murray-Leach as set designer, the production crew set out to tell a story that incorporated themes from various stories, specifically Holmes' interest in The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and My Hyde and Hinchcliffe's desire to create a truly alien world that contrasted to the barren, abstract sets often seen on Star Trek.  [ The high point of Planet of Evil is the set design. It's simply incredibly flipping gorgeous. There is no location shooting in this serial, with the bulk of the film work being done at Ealing Television Film studios. Murray-Leach and his crew create a world that's both beautiful and alien. There is absolutely no doubt that this story takes place on a truly distant world, with large trees, drooping vines, and snaking roots all over the floor. While the jungle set did play havoc with the sound booms and ensure dialogue would be added in post-production, the large set did allow director David Maloney, fresh off of Genesis of the Daleks, to set his cameras exactly where he wanted them and allowed the actors to look like they were running through an alien landscape, complete with puddles and hidden nooks. The set was so successful that the BBC Educational Service used as an example of set design excellence for years afterward. This legacy helped sooth the ruffled nerves among the BBC's prop department, as the various columns and overhead scaffolding that Murray-Leach used to create and hang the various plant life were impossible to convert back to their original form once filming was complete! And I would be remiss in not mentioning the multi-story probe ship. Just adding a set of stairs and a balcony added a sense of proportion that made the ship appear larger on television than it actually was.  The script itself is solid as well though not without its flaws. Not only are their overtones of Forbidden Planet, and by extension Shakespeare's The Tempest, but Marks heavily borrows from Jekyll and Hyde via Sorensen's character. Frederick Jaeger (who also played in The Savages and The Invisible Enemy) finds himself fighting the effects of the crystals as their very presence causes him to devolve into a more primitive ape-like state. Bouncing back and forth between the detached researcher more concerned with science and the rambling madman, Jaeger is a fine villain for the story. His final fate is a bit off, however, as Hinchcliffe decided to not employ a “kill em all” ending and had Sorensen freed from the effects of the anti-matter none the worse for wear...save a couple of dead bodies he was directly responsible for, but hey, just jettison them out of the airlock and we'll call it a day. The other villain of the story is the Captain Queeg-esque Salamar, commander of the probe ship. Played by Prentis Hancock (Spearhead from Space, The Ribos Operation, and in a weird bit of not-quite-irony best known for his turn in Space:1999 as Paul Morrow), Salamar pretty much shouts his way through the part, accusing the Doctor and Sarah Jane of every single bad thing that happens to the ship's crew and scientific expedition, with his final actions only serving to make things worse. It's his second-in-command, the older and wiser Vishinsky (Ewen Solon, also from The Savages) who stands out among the ship's contingent as the bravest and most pragmatic of them. It's a very nice turn as a military type who knows what he's doing even if it does involve shooting aliens at the right time.   The rest of the characters don't really stand out, especially at the second half of this serial involves the crew and Doctor mainly yelling at each other with a few moments of running to break up the screaming. The script attempts some characterization for the doomed crew, such as the poor sap who always complains about having to carry the containers full of crystals, but it doesn't help that their death scenes are some of the absolutely silliest I've seen so far on the show. The victims of the invisible anti-matter creature will scream silently, have a quite lie down, and then fade from view, but eventually their desiccated skeletons will reappear to give the viewers a good scare. As for the creatures themselves, I'll give props to the special effects department for pulling the outline effects off, but the end result just doesn't do anything for me. The crew is being attacked by an outline. That's just not scary. Sorensen's makeup as the anti-matter creature is well done, as is the glowing red eyes effect as he tries to fight off the change, but the larger threat of the anti-matter aliens just doesn't hold up.     In terms of acting, the bright spot comes from the fact that this is the first story where Tom Baker and Elisabeth Sladen are a duo, sans Harry Sullivan, and from the very beginning the pair just CLICK. The witty banter and intelligent respect between the two are immediately transparent. This isn't a case of teacher/student or master/apprentice or even Time Lord/imbecile. It's obvious that the Doctor sees Sarah Jane as “equal” as he could consider a human to be to his alien nature, and Marks' script gives Sarah Jane a few moments to show off her own smarts, including something as simple as the power is low and the magnetic locks holding them in place are weak. By this point, Tom Baker has a pretty firm grasp on the alien nature of the Doctor. He alone understands anti-matter and he alone can go talk to the source of anti-matter (giving us what's rapidly becoming a Fourth Doctor cliché – the silent screaming – as he attempts to communicate with the creature in the pit, with said pit pretty much a cardboard riser with a five foot drop and a mattress), and he's not going to waste time trying to explain the details. All the crew needs to know is to get the anti-matter off the ship and if they won't, then they're idiots. What I've enjoyed about Baker's turn so far is how polite he is even when surrounded by people who want to kill him. It's makes those moments where he flips the switch and tries to explain just how everyone is in danger so much more potent...but also explains why people never take him seriously until it's much too late! Cygnia posted:Some older episodes of "Doctor Who" just stick with you. And others, well, you just remember bits and pieces, filtered through the warped eyes of childhood. "Planet of Evil" was in the latter for me. I enjoyed Planet of Evil, even with its flaws. The script might be a bit off and the monsters do not hold up after over forty years, but the set design, both alien planet and interior ship, is absolutely stunning, and the chemistry between Sarah Jane and the Doctor is already in place. Recommended, with a grain of salt. Random Thoughts - The Doctor: You and I are scientists, Professor. We buy our privilege to experiment at the cost of total responsibility. I absolutely love this line and how Baker pulls it off. - The third episode cliffhanger is one of the best I've seen so far, with an unconscious Doctor and Sarah Jane about to be shot into space by Salamar. I actually yelled out as the cabinet closed with Sarah Jane screaming. - Those are some very 70's sci-fi outfits the crew is wearing. All they needed were medallions and chest hair. - And allow me to indulge in just a bit of “being a male sci-fi fan" here for one moment. Sarah Jane's outfit. Wow.  Cobi's Synopsis – Borrowing from both Jekyll and Hyde and Forbidden Planet, Planet of Evil overcomes the weak points in its script with not only the first official pairing of the Doctor and Sarah Jane as a duo, but some absolutely incredible and gorgeous set design. Next up – Kneel before the might of Sutekh... Tom Baker is the Doctor in...Pyramids of Mars.
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Dec 11, 2015 02:05
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Been listening to some later 8th Doctor audios, and I have to say I really am liking Tamsin. It took me awhile to warm to Lucy Bleedin' Miller, but after a time I really dug her. I was unsure about Tamsin at first but after a just a few episodes she's really gelling. I like the fact that she's an actress, and actually uses that talent to bullshit on a higher level than a lot of other companions.
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Dec 11, 2015 02:33
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So when do they release the soundtracks for the show? I'm not normally enough of a huge nerd to shell out for a TV show OST but the last 10 minutes or so of Heaven Sent is about my favourite music in the whole series and I want it.
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Dec 11, 2015 03:08
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CobiWann posted:I enjoyed Planet of Evil, even with its flaws. The script might be a bit off and the monsters do not hold up after over forty years, but the set design, both alien planet and interior ship, is absolutely stunning, and the chemistry between Sarah Jane and the Doctor is already in place. Recommended, with a grain of salt. Planet of Evil was one of my favorites when I was a kid. Rewatching it recently, could see the rough edges more but I still liked it.
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Dec 11, 2015 04:01
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Davros1 posted:Anyone want to know what Terry Nation's US Dalek series would have been like, Big Finish did an adaptation of the pilot in their Lost Stories range. It was released in a set with the Second Doctor story "Prison in Space". Just be warned, "Prison in Space" is so backwards and sexist, it actually causes time to flow in reverse when played.
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Dec 11, 2015 06:26
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2house2fly posted:So when do they release the soundtracks for the show? I'm not normally enough of a huge nerd to shell out for a TV show OST but the last 10 minutes or so of Heaven Sent is about my favourite music in the whole series and I want it. Yeah I want this as well as a full track of Capaldi playing Clara's theme. WHEN?
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Dec 11, 2015 07:17
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Well, disappointingly, the official soundtrack release for Series 8 only came out in May of this year, if that's any indication.
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Dec 11, 2015 09:23
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Random Stranger posted:Planet of Evil was one of my favorites when I was a kid. Rewatching it recently, could see the rough edges more but I still liked it. Yeah, as a kid I thought it was brilliant and that the two main spacemen characters both looked cool as hell in their bitching uniforms. As an adult, it's very rough, the costumes look awful, the effects aren't great.... but it still has a certain charm. And that set.... 
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Dec 11, 2015 09:50
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The_Doctor posted:Well, disappointingly, the official soundtrack release for Series 8 only came out in May of this year, if that's any indication. Oh well, some selfless people on Youtube have gone through the episode's audio and painstakingly removed as much dialogue and sound effects as they could, leaving only the music and ghostly remnants of background noise. Good enough for now!
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Dec 11, 2015 12:38
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Let it be known that Big Mean Jerk is not a Big Mean Santa, and I would be watching the commentary for Ghost Light tonight if my other half (who doesn't like Doctor Who) wasn't coming over
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Dec 11, 2015 13:00
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PriorMarcus posted:No, the explicitly say he's been lying about leaving Gallifrey due to boredom, and the truth is because he's scared of the hybrid prophecy and he's role in it. They're both wrong, anyway. He left because he killed Torvik then felt guilty about letting the personifition of Death shift the responsibility over to the Master.
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Dec 11, 2015 13:29
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Wheat Loaf posted:They're both wrong, anyway. He left because he killed Torvik then felt guilty about letting the personifition of Death shift the responsibility over to the Master. I swear to loving God man, I will find you.
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Dec 11, 2015 13:40
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Changing the internal history of the series doesn't really bother me that much. Maybe that makes me a bad fan or something but it doesn't really seem like a big deal to me. My reaction's usually more along the lines of  than  I guess it's a bit like the science-fiction techno-babble. It'd need to be something that really sticks out for me to care about it (like the time a bad guy hid the solar system by moving it a million miles to the right or whatever it was happened). Perhaps an exception would be if it's something that I feel undermines the character, but I suppose that's how some people feel about the Doctor leaving home because he was scared of something. That specific example doesn't really matter to me. I'm not bothered by it. Should I be?
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Dec 11, 2015 13:56
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Wheat Loaf posted:Changing the internal history of the series doesn't really bother me that much. Maybe that makes me a bad fan or something but it doesn't really seem like a big deal to me. My reaction's usually more along the lines of In the case of MASTER I hate it because it feels like someone going "aaah, I got to write the reason for that thing you already knew and it is GRIM and DARK and NOBODY IS HAPPY HA HA HA". It doesn't feel like it adds anything interesting to the story we already know, it just makes everyone involved miserable. I didn't particularly mind the bored/scared shift in Heaven Sent as it didn't actually really do anything. It's a slight shift in the story we already knew rather than deleting it and replacing it with something else.
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Dec 11, 2015 14:03
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Yeah, I think that about sums me up too.
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Dec 11, 2015 14:13
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Heck, this was me this morning… Wife: Hey, did the new Torchwood audio come out? Me: Yep. Burned it for you last night. Here. Wife: Thanks. Don’t forget, kiddo’s getting dropped off tonight after getting Christmas pictures taken. Love you! Me: Love you, too. (Wife gets in her car as I’m making toast and looking at the album cover) Me: No. Oh, no. Oh, no no no no no no no… (Run out the front door, but it’s too late as she’s backed out of the driverway) Me: Babe! Babe! It was written by Joseph Lidster! IT WAS WRITTEN BY JOSEPH LIDSTER!!!
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Dec 11, 2015 14:15
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Wheat Loaf posted:I guess it's a bit like the science-fiction techno-babble. It'd need to be something that really sticks out for me to care about it (like the time a bad guy hid the solar system by moving it a million miles to the right or whatever it was happened). Are you talking about The Mysterious Planet (first story of Trial of a Time Lord), which involves the Time Lords hiding Earth after doing shady poo poo there by moving it 2 light years away and renaming it "Ravolox"? Which aside from the absurdly small distance isn't so bad. If you want proper astronomical distances you'll be annoyed by every science fiction programme and film and book, just about. It's difficult for people (including authors!) to get a handle on how mindbogglingly vast space is. The Douglas Adams quote, of course, comes to mind.
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Dec 11, 2015 14:18
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I don't know why they keep doing prophecies on this show, the big reveal is always poo poo. Ever since that psychic bus lady.
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Dec 11, 2015 14:20
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Let it be known that Big Mean Jerk is not a Big Mean Santa, and I would be watching the commentary for Ghost Light tonight if my other half (who doesn't like Doctor Who) wasn't coming over Wait, cancel this: he got me good stories instead of hilariously awful ones
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Dec 11, 2015 14:24
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CobiWann posted:Heck, this was me this morning… This is basically how every Lidster story ends so it seems appropriate.
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Dec 11, 2015 14:27
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CobiWann posted:Heck, this was me this morning… A torchwood audio? And by Lidster? I assume you meant that literally when you said you burnt it?
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Dec 11, 2015 14:28
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CobiWann posted:Heck, this was me this morning… Enjoy A Day in the Death of your marriage  .
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Dec 11, 2015 14:42
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Are you talking about The Mysterious Planet (first story of Trial of a Time Lord), which involves the Time Lords hiding Earth after doing shady poo poo there by moving it 2 light years away and renaming it "Ravolox"? That might be it, and I might just be misremembering the details. I haven't watched any of the Trial of a Time Lord serials for a while.
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Dec 11, 2015 14:51
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