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Fangz posted:The Man in the High Castle isn't really a realistic alternate history at all, but I still like its portrayal for how it captures the mad ambition of the Nazis, in a way that stuff like Fatherland doesn't. I prefer the new wolfensteins for that, since it also features interactive Nazi killing.
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Dec 11, 2015 01:27
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I bet Italy was just thrilled to go from a centrally located series of ports in the middle of some of the busiest trade routes in the world to New Switzerland.
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Dec 11, 2015 01:40
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Tomn posted:I bet Italy was just thrilled to go from a centrally located series of ports in the middle of some of the busiest trade routes in the world to New Switzerland. Hey, you can still be in the middle of some busy camel routes across the Mediterranean salt flats!
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Dec 11, 2015 01:43
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The average depth of the Mediterranean is ~1500m and it's 3.5% to 4% salt by mass. Napkin math, if you evaporated it all you'd average out to 53-60 kg of salt per square meter of reclaimed land, fukkin lol
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Dec 11, 2015 01:49
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Pellisworth posted:The average depth of the Mediterranean is ~1500m and it's 3.5% to 4% salt by mass. But then Atlantropa would control the world's salt markets! Just think about that! ...with no viable means of transporting those millions of tons of salt to an actual sea port. But at least there's the hydroenergy part, the Gibraltar dam was supposed to cover a third of Europe's electricity needs.
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Dec 11, 2015 01:55
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What doesn't seem to be answered anywhere is what they do with the water once it gets past the dam. Won't it just really slowly refill the Med anyways?
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Dec 11, 2015 02:10
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HEY GAL posted:not alfred bester from the tv show, alfred bester from the old rear end books Bester has a short story that does time travel okay in which the Nazis are book-burning aryan thugs in castles and the cool kids that aren't nazis are mole people that can read and aren't huge assholes riding lizards. Or something. Bester is great. Draining the Med just sounds like a good way to get a whole fuckload of rotting fish-flesh in a giant basin.
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Dec 11, 2015 02:17
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Arquinsiel posted:What doesn't seem to be answered anywhere is what they do with the water once it gets past the dam. Won't it just really slowly refill the Med anyways? IIRC it evaporates faster than it flows in once the water gets shallow enough.
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Dec 11, 2015 02:21
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Nenonen posted:The idea, as crazy as it was, was actually promoted by a German architect. That's not about farming but creating an artificial gradient to make gently caress off huge hydro electric plants
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Dec 11, 2015 02:37
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If you want crazy Nazi architecture, go for the Volkshalle. 
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Dec 11, 2015 02:42
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Ah yes, the Nazi "has its own weather systems" dome.
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Dec 11, 2015 02:43
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wdarkk posted:Ah yes, the Nazi "has its own weather systems" dome. Speer said everyone's breath would create clouds and rain inside, but I'm not sure how scientifically verified that is.
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Dec 11, 2015 02:45
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wdarkk posted:IIRC it evaporates faster than it flows in once the water gets shallow enough.
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Dec 11, 2015 02:59
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chitoryu12 posted:Speer said everyone's breath would create clouds and rain inside, but I'm not sure how scientifically verified that is. There are several existing buildings where that happens so it's not so far out.
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Dec 11, 2015 03:42
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The Germans were really uncomfortable with the fact that they didn't have enough farmland to remain self-sufficient. If you weigh the options, draining the water out of part of the Mediterranean sounds less insane than draining the Poles out of Poland.
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Dec 11, 2015 04:09
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SlothfulCobra posted:draining the water out of part of the Mediterranean sounds less insane than draining the Poles out of Poland. Said no one, ever. Genociding people to steal their farm land is as old as agriculture.
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Dec 11, 2015 04:16
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SlothfulCobra posted:The Germans were really uncomfortable with the fact that they didn't have enough farmland to remain self-sufficient. If you weigh the options, draining the water out of part of the Mediterranean sounds less insane than draining the Poles out of Poland. Cyrano4747 posted:Said no one, ever. Genociding people to steal their farm land is as old as agriculture. My earlier napkin math was shamefully wrong by several orders of magnitude when I got curious and double checked it in Excel, evaporating the entire Med means you are dealing with ~6000 kg / m2 of salt. That is equivalent to a layer of salt 28m thick covering the whole basin. So I think genociding all Slavs is a much more reasonable proposition than doing anything useful with drained Mediterranean land. Hitler was right.
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Dec 11, 2015 04:23
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Would it absolutely HAVE to be evaporation?
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Dec 11, 2015 04:26
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I'm continuously amazed that people talk about countries and people like they are just flat blobs of color on a 2D map, like it was some big game of Civilization. Everything from "a growing German population needs more farmland" to "Iraq's oil wealth will pay for its own liberation". Sutff that gets talked about regularly as if they were anything other than nonsense dreamed up by insane autistics. Boy all those Germans/Japanese sure starved to death or whatever the gently caress they thought would happen when their desperate struggle for world conquest failed huh.
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Dec 11, 2015 04:28
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Arquinsiel posted:Would it absolutely HAVE to be evaporation? I don't even want to think of the energy required to pump that much water.
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Dec 11, 2015 04:31
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Arquinsiel posted:Would it absolutely HAVE to be evaporation? I'm not sure what you mean. The idea is based on the specific geography of the Med, it has very limited exchange with other bodies of water and across narrow/shallow straits. So you block off Gibraltar and the sea level drops because you've turned off the tap coming in from the Atlantic, Med evaporates to where inflow = outflow. You can't feasibly pump it anywhere, that would require enormous amounts of energy and I don't see how the pumping rate is going to exceed evaporation in situ so you're still going to get (literally) tons of salt deposited. I'm happy to continue on this but don't really want to derail the thread with  Raskolnikov38 posted:I don't even want to think of the energy required to pump that much water. yea Plus you're moving the salt somewhere else. Hypothetically let's block Gibraltar and magically pump the Med into the Atlantic. Even diluted into the Atlantic that's an enormous amount of salt and probably gonna gently caress up thermohaline circulation* and thereby global climate. *Density differences caused by temp and salt (salinity) are the main thing that drives global ocean circulation and heat exchange. Think the Gulf Stream that keeps Europe unusually warm and temperate for its high latitude. Splode posted:pump the salt water into space, easy. You can even split it into rocket fuel for your nazi moon base. Salt water is extremely corrosive so I am totally down with space Nazis trying to make use of it Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 04:39
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pump the salt water into space, easy. You can even split it into rocket fuel for your nazi moon base.
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Dec 11, 2015 04:48
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Pellisworth posted:*Density differences caused by temp and salt (salinity) are the main thing that drives global ocean circulation and heat exchange. Think the Gulf Stream that keeps Europe unusually warm and temperate for its high latitude. I assume we're completely loving the climate beyond repair anyone by getting rid of the mediterranean.
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Dec 11, 2015 04:54
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Pellisworth posted:I'm happy to continue on this but don't really want to derail the thread with
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Dec 11, 2015 04:59
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Arquinsiel posted:I think the idea has just made me want to try find the absolute best way to fail at attempting the impossible and I'm trying to work out how to move the water without leaving the salt behind in some capacity. pump it somewhere at a faster rate than evaporation
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Dec 11, 2015 05:03
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Arquinsiel posted:I think the idea has just made me want to try find the absolute best way to fail at attempting the impossible and I'm trying to work out how to move the water without leaving the salt behind in some capacity. Could you dump some chemical into the water to precipitate the salt out as some non-water soluble compound?
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Dec 11, 2015 05:06
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Cyrano4747 posted:Could you dump some chemical into the water to precipitate the salt out as some non-water soluble compound? Not really, that's why the oceans are loaded with salts. They're super soluble so they pretty much stay there. Edit: I went to get some groceries and on the way I came to the conclusion the only solution is to shade the entire Med with a fabulous Nazi parasol to block the sun and prevent evaporation. Then use the limitless energy generated by Gay Black MechaHitler's dilithium reactors to pump the water somewhere else. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 05:11
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This derail is really long and silly at this point. But. If the Mediterranean was to be evaporated, the salt content really won't just fall down in place, you realise? The sea will instead steadily shrink into the deeper parts of the ocean, becoming more and more concentrated, etc. In some places you will end up with mountains of salt, yes, but shallow areas will be relatively uncontaminated.
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Dec 11, 2015 05:36
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Why do you even need Mediterranean farm land when you own Ukraine?
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Dec 11, 2015 05:36
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Why do you even need Mediterranean farm land when you own Ukraine? Because you're trying to turn your entire female population into aryan baby factories.
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Dec 11, 2015 05:39
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Why do you even need Mediterranean farm land when you own Ukraine? The Nazi Germany in the book is basically MAXIMUM HITLER. Insatiable, horrific, and also completely successful in everything they put their minds to. The Mediterranean stuff is mentioned in passing next to the purging of Africa for corpses for chemical components, and the development of colonies on Mars. Fangz fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 05:39
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Why do you even need Mediterranean farm land when you own Ukraine? Because they can.
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Dec 11, 2015 05:41
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It's an enormus solar panel, uses the sun to pump (evaporate) water out of the Med and top off the Atlantic. Drain, excavate, and dam the Levantine and extend the Nile to Greece? But I'm pretty sure lesbian black Adalwolfa Hitler wouldn't be satisfied until the Nile runs to Berlin.
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Dec 11, 2015 05:44
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Nazi science is full of ludicrous concepts. At least this one has more grounding than most of their master race garbage. If it worked for the dutch, why not for the deutsch?
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Dec 11, 2015 06:35
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Raskolnikov38 posted:I don't even want to think of the energy required to pump that much water. One of the crazy "dam the Mediterranean" plans had a huge canal dug through Libya so the water would drain into a new lake in the middle of Africa.
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Dec 11, 2015 06:36
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If there's some free computer time this weekend I'll see if I can run a model on what draining the Med would do to the global oceans forward a hundred years, just for funsies (it's not gonna be pretty)
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Dec 11, 2015 06:45
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Pellisworth posted:If there's some free computer time this weekend I'll see if I can run a model on what draining the Med would do to the global oceans forward a hundred years, just for funsies It'll be a nice addition to the usual threadchat, I look forward to it. Now, when President Trump gets elected, how about his plan to expand the Med until it reaches the Persian Gulf? No more Moslems?
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Dec 11, 2015 07:22
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The more I read, the more it seems like stupid, unhealthy hatred of Medditeranean becausegently caress your poo poo, sea
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Dec 11, 2015 07:32
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:It'll be a nice addition to the usual threadchat, I look forward to it. I mostly lurk in this thread but am happy to sperg out about ocean stuff. Like if sub warfare goons wanna talk about the SOFAR channel or something https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOFAR_channel Sorry for any excessive derail, I won't continue on Nazi Salt-land
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Dec 11, 2015 07:49
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What if... you blew several nukes, causing a nuclear winter so that the Med would freeze, then you airlift the gigantic ice block with a million helicopters?Cyrano4747 posted:That's not about farming but creating an artificial gradient to make gently caress off huge hydro electric plants Those all were part of Sörgel's plan. He also wanted to somehow irrigate the Sahara desert so that European colonists could spread to Africa.  Also notice the London-Dakar-South America rail line 
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Dec 11, 2015 12:07
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