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I cannot believe that they would include blue cards and green cards in the same set. They are completely antithetical to each other.
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Dec 11, 2015 17:54
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Lottery of Babylon posted:It's parasitic in the sense that green is parasitic. If you want to run green creatures in your deck, you need to include lands that produce G. gently caress you, you can't tell me how I'm going to build my deck, I'm going to run all islands in my mono-green stompy.
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Dec 11, 2015 17:55
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Lottery of Babylon posted:It's parasitic in the sense that green is parasitic. If you want to run green creatures in your deck, you need to include lands that produce G. I think the thing that makes this analogy not quite complete is that green is going to be around forever in every set, as far as we know. If they just printed green in one set, then it would be parasitic. That said, I think you're still substantially on-point with that analogy. Really, I don't think you can 100% say a mechanic is parasitic except in retrospect. We can usually say something will be parasitic because it's a safe bet that sunburst won't actually become an evergreen thing, but technically we don't know it, and here I think it's safe to say that there's a greater-than-average chance of their sprinkling diamond costs into more sets going forward, just like hybrid mana (as people have noted). The fact that all past and future colorless sources that tapped for {1} will now tap for {D} also goes a long way to keep it from being parasitic, since they don't actually have to put e: I may be using a definition of parasitic other than the strict Magic dictionary definition here, but I think it's the practical definition most people are concerned about.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:00
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Note: the official notation is {C}, not {D}. Kozilek looks like he should have been a blue card, and the menace is adorable
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Dec 11, 2015 18:06
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You could jam Kozilek into standard ramp or modern tron with zero changes, and probably most other (C) cards. Maybe you don't want to but there's no way this mechanic is parasitic.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:07
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Yeah any {C} cards can go directly into tron with zero mana issues.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:12
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Liking Team Indonesia here. Hats look dope.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:12
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Maybe it's just that I'm not dumb and crazy, but I'd personally like to see more than one common before I decide that the set will be bad for limited.Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:It's also antithetical to Converge, and to regular deck-building which doesn't get colorless without Lodestone Golem around it's either a cost easily mitigated, making the stunt pointless to even introduce, or it demands centering deckbuilding around it or not using it at all, parasitic. It's gonna be 2 packs of OTG(or whatever the shorthand is???) so the themes will be more prevalent. Also converge was unplayable already so it's not like they'll cause much damage by not supporting it. little munchkin fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 18:13
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JerryLee posted:I think the thing that makes this analogy not quite complete is that green is going to be around forever in every set, as far as we know. If they just printed green in one set, then it would be parasitic. In the sense that Orange Fluffy Sheep used it, specifically that it doesn't play nice with converge and demands that you don't play 5+D decks... that's exactly the point. I don't really think it's parasitic in the sense that Maro tends to use it either; though Wastes will likely not be reprinted until a set focuses on the mechanic, there's always some kind of utility land and usually some kind of colorless mana dork, so the mechanic can definitely interact with other sets.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:16
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:It's also antithetical to Converge, and to regular deck-building which doesn't get colorless without Lodestone Golem around it's either a cost easily mitigated, making the stunt pointless to even introduce, or it demands centering deckbuilding around it or not using it at all, parasitic. Sorry, but doesnt that seem to be the point?
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Dec 11, 2015 18:19
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I don't see how this can be considered parasitic. Every set has ways to produce colorless mana.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:22
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I hate change and want things to stay the same
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Dec 11, 2015 18:24
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JerryLee posted:The fact that all past and future colorless sources that tapped for {1} will now tap for {D} also goes a long way to keep it from being parasitic, since they don't actually have to put That's a big part of what keeps it from being parasitic. With most parasitic mechanics like Splice onto Arcane and Slivers, the enablers are just more cards with that same mechanic, so you're strongly encouraged to run as many of them as you can and they all come from one set/block. With diamond cards, though, there's nothing that directly says you should run a bunch of cards with diamond in their cost: it's just that to run one diamond card, you need diamond sources, and once you have diamond sources, you're able to cast diamonds so you might consider taking advantage of that to add some more diamond cards. And every set will have diamond sources that are designed to be usable even without diamond cards, so there are ways to toss diamond cards into otherwise-unrelated pools of cards from other blocks. I mean, strictly speaking you could say the same about Process, but ways of exiling your opponent's stuff are a lot less common in other sets and you need to go much further out of your way to do it. With diamond mana, if your manabase happens to include a few painlands you're already fully set for a splash of diamond. And Ingest is actually 100% worthless without Process. (I guess it undoes sorcery-speed scries?)
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Dec 11, 2015 18:26
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Slivers Slivers are beautiful babies and I will hear nothing else
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Dec 11, 2015 18:27
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Lottery of Babylon posted:And Ingest is actually 100% worthless without Process. (I guess it undoes sorcery-speed scries?) Beats an infinite life combo with an old-eldrazi reshuffler in the deck over the very long term  it's still 100% worthless
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Dec 11, 2015 18:29
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I like the mechanic, personally, and I don't see what's parasitic about it. It's not like colorless lands don't exist in most sets. As for draft, saying it's antithetical to converge is ridiculous. Yeah, you aren't going to play colorless-requiring cards in a converge deck. You will probably take the other cards in the pack that support your strategy, which may end up being more open because the guy next to you is on the colorless plan and is letting a bunch of good colored cards go by because he needs to make sure he's got the mana to support his Kozilek or whatever. It gives you cards that can synergize with the cards that cared about devoid, and also provides contrast with the Zendikar side of the set. It's great. In particular, it gives the Blighted lands a whole new context--they aren't just an ability stapled on a land, it's a way to pick up further colorless mana in pack 3.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:30
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lmao team usa already eliminated from the world cup.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:35
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I think this will be very hard to explain to certain casual players, that's my biggest concern with the mechanic. It will probably be easier to explain to someone who has never played magic before, but to people who play very occasionally it might be tough.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:37
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:lmao team usa already eliminated from the world cup. Are England still in/able to make Day 2? If so how much is Rich Hagon gloating right now.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:38
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The Lord of Hats posted:In particular, it gives the Blighted lands a whole new context--they aren't just an ability stapled on a land, it's a way to pick up further colorless mana in pack 3. 
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Dec 11, 2015 18:38
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Bonus posted:I think this will be very hard to explain to certain casual players, that's my biggest concern with the mechanic. It will probably be easier to explain to someone who has never played magic before, but to people who play very occasionally it might be tough. Those players usually fill in their own gaps, and aren't as turned off by something like this as you think.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:41
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Frozen_flame posted:Are England still in/able to make Day 2? If so how much is Rich Hagon gloating right now. Six points at the end of round six, I'm not sure what the cut off is but I'm assuming no. Not sure any of them are English either. Edit: The most interesting colorless mana cost cards will be the one(s) that cost D. Where does D come from anyway, Devoid? BizarroAzrael fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 18:42
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I think calling it 'diamond' is confusing people into thinking it's more parasitic than it is. Just call it what it is, colorless mana. Every set has a bunch of ways to make colorless mana. Hell, the current set has the Blighted lands, Hedron archive, and Kozilek's Channeler. It's just that colorlessness was always a downside before.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:43
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Could be. Either way this is no big deal. Another thing that irks me about this is that it came out with in a small set, so when you draft, you'll have stuff like Kozilek's Channeler, who adds (2) to your mana pool and then some other thing from OGW that adds {C}{C}. This just seems very inelegant.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:43
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BizarroAzrael posted:Six points at the end of round six, I'm not sure what the cut off is but I'm assuming no. Not sure any of them are English either. Top 32 to next day. 12 points and reasonable tiebreakers needed for that I think.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:43
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cheering for team paulo team usa lmao The real tragedy is that there isn't even a good gif for USA being eliminated this time.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:44
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Who was Team USA this year?
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Dec 11, 2015 18:45
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Lancelot posted:Who was Team USA this year? United States Mike Sigrist Joel Sadowsky Tom Martell Neal Oliver
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Dec 11, 2015 18:47
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So some Tumblr news about {C} Yes, the mana symbol for producing colourless will change. Sol Ring reprints will have "T: Add CC to your mana pool", and not "T: Add 2 to your mana pool". I know people (incl. myself) were wondering about that, even though it's not an actual functional change.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:48
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BizarroAzrael posted:Six points at the end of round six, I'm not sure what the cut off is but I'm assuming no. Not sure any of them are English either. I think one of the WMCQ winners was? Doesn't matter regardless, as English Cricket shows. Shame they went out so early. Newzilek is set to be pretty darn good, definitely a consideration for Tron. I would expect some pushed spell in Oath as well, still hoping for WasteMoon for CCC
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Dec 11, 2015 18:49
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Bonus posted:Could be. Either way this is no big deal. Another thing that irks me about this is that it came out with in a small set, so when you draft, you'll have stuff like Kozilek's Channeler, who adds (2) to your mana pool and then some other thing from OGW that adds {C}{C}. This just seems very inelegant. It's almost as though Design didn't do their job on BFZ at all!
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Dec 11, 2015 18:52
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This seems on its face to be such a fundamental change (even though older colorless mana producers will still function the same way) that I wonder if this was supposed to be in BFZ originally. It seems like a weird thing to put in a small set especially when Wizards has admitted that the BFZ block was rushed due to the changing block structure, but we will see!
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Dec 11, 2015 18:53
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Even if they hosed up the design/development of BFZ by having to rush it out unfinished, if they wanted to, it would have been trivial to change the templating/printing to get the diamond symbol on Scion tokens and Kozilek's Channeler. They obviously just decided not spoiling the second-set mechanic was more important than the aesthetics of having different colourless symbols in one block. Sickening posted:United States Mike Sigrist Joel Sadowsky Tom Martell Neal Oliver
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Dec 11, 2015 18:59
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There's also story reasons, I'm guessing this is the amazing secret weapon Kozilek was looking for.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:03
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:lmao team usa already eliminated from the world cup. That Temur deck they were running was TERRIBLE. Like a bad FNM brew...
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Dec 11, 2015 19:05
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i bet wastes was the original name for the process mechanic
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Dec 11, 2015 19:06
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Lancelot posted:Even if they hosed up the design/development of BFZ by having to rush it out unfinished, if they wanted to, it would have been trivial to change the templating/printing to get the diamond symbol on Scion tokens and Kozilek's Channeler. They obviously just decided not spoiling the second-set mechanic was more important than the aesthetics of having different colourless symbols in one block. It still makes draft super weird though since you still get a pack of BFZ and the colorless producers in it will actually be important.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:06
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mcmagic posted:That Temur deck they were running was TERRIBLE. Like a bad FNM brew... fnm brews are actually the best way to play magic
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Dec 11, 2015 19:10
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Was there a common (C) card revealed, or is it just Cozy?
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Dec 11, 2015 19:11
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:fnm brews are actually the best way to play magic That may be but it's not the best way to try to win the WMC.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:11
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