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ZenMaster posted:Seriously Loiosh? Dude, it was a big post. I guess you missed the part where I mentioned I wasn't paying much attention the last week here. To your question, here's what I've said: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&pagenumber=357&perpage=40#post452718391 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&pagenumber=451&perpage=40#post452941899 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&pagenumber=452&perpage=40#post452942684 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&pagenumber=467&perpage=40#post452966826 quote:If they fail to get AC 2.0 out. If it's a broken mess where I cannot get my friend to copilot a ship with me, that's when I will have no faith. I've mentioned this repeatedly, I don't go on rumors. I like to see sourced facts so I can evaluate for myself. [...] I'm kinda used to jank like this. It's not really that surprising to me. If they don't fix it in December, if I cannot get in my Connie and fly around doing stupid poo poo, I'll be concerned. But seeing this, it's an alpha. What'll be telling is seeing how well they clean it up. [...] I posted that a few pages back. If they failed to get 2.0 out by the middle of december. If I cannot play a Connie by then and have my friend join me, that's when I'll be done with SC. If they hit that delivery, then I'll be happy with the progress. My friend on his massive 400 kbps downstream finished the download this morning. I asked him to join me, but he said he'd do it tonight. So, we'll see. Will I be able to get into a Constellation? Will we be able to fly out on it and do a mission? Will fun be had?! I'll know tonight. I also addressed my view here which you can read for a more in-depth perspective on my thoughts in regards to polish and alphas: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&pagenumber=745&perpage=40#post453793943 Edit: And as a note, I don't really do snap judgements. When you ask me a question, you're going to usually get a larger reply. If you're not interested in reading a detailed opinion, that's cool, but if you're asking me the same question repeatedly because you didn't read through my entire reply, that's kinda not my problem. Loiosh fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 16:33
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Oh, well...
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Stalkerr posted:Star Citizen is getting into my Starsector. Noooooo The irony in that person's post won't be lost to people in this thread. CiGentologists are sounding very much like that other space cult when they defend their religion. Same words. Same methods.
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Dec 14, 2015 16:36
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Is Star Citizen to good to be true? https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/3wqytq/is_star_citizen_too_good_to_be_true/
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Dec 14, 2015 16:37
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I just checked /u/MyLittleTurretGunnar's posts on reddit. quote:I've spent TENS OF THOUSANDS on this game. My wife has spent $20 and gets just as much out if it as I do. quote:Jesus christ is must really suck to be poor. I loving hate poor people. You are all so pathetic. 
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Dec 14, 2015 16:48
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SelenicMartian posted:What if Ben is the database? He definitely as an impressive rack
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Dec 14, 2015 16:52
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fuctifino posted:When I asked a similar question a few months ago, someone replied: "His arms are normal sized. Just take your time to think about that...." I live in the Midwest man, I know from fatties I still ain't never seen arms like that
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Dec 14, 2015 17:04
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Did anyone see Eurogamers recent Star Citizen Post? Haven't had a chance to browse the comments but I'm guessing the star cit community isn't happy: Star Citizen soars past $100m as alpha 2.0 launches. Prompts call for game-spending regulations from Big Pharma dev. From the blogpost referenced in the article: quote:Star Citizen is a space game. Its being made by someone who made space games years ago, and they ‘crowd-funded’ the money to make this one. The game is way behind schedule, and is of course, not finished yet. They just passed $100,000,000 in money raised. They can do this because individual ships in the game are for sale, even though you bought the game. I guess at this point we could just say ‘A fool and his money are soon parted’, but yet we do not do this with gambling addiction. In fact we some countries have extremely strict laws on gambling, precisely because they know addiction is a thing, and that people need to be saved from themselves. He goes on to compare the ship sales to the freemium elements in stuff like Game of war that exploit their player base to extract thousands of dollars daily. Worth reading the whole thing.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:15
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Nyeehg posted:Did anyone see Eurogamers recent Star Citizen Post? Haven't had a chance to browse the comments but I'm guessing the star cit community isn't happy: Star Citizen soars past $100m as alpha 2.0 launches. Prompts call for game-spending regulations from Big Pharma dev. lol all the comments about the game needing regulations on spending are being downvoted off the site and all the comments about being free to spend your own money/star citizen is heaven are getting upvoted the upvoting/downvoting system: Griefing opinions is ok not star ships
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Dec 14, 2015 17:20
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quote:As in game transactions are part of a service economy, service providers have a social responsibility, just like the gambling industry does. Customers spending is directly linked & enabled by the service (something you don't have with alcohol from shops, if you were disgustingly drunk most bars would stop serving you). downvoted lol
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Dec 14, 2015 17:22
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Madcosby posted:-5 /5 It would be drat difficult to regulate though. Where would you draw the line?
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Dec 14, 2015 17:23
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Iglocska posted:It would be drat difficult to regulate though. Where would you draw the line? open financials for crowdfunding projects wow that was ez as gently caress
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Dec 14, 2015 17:24
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Madcosby posted:open financials for crowdfunding projects Ah I thought more like limiting how much people can spend so they don't end up buying space ships for $30k and using up their kids college funds.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:26
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My kids can spend their own cash on their own schooling 
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Dec 14, 2015 17:29
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Soothing Vapors posted:I live in the Midwest man, I know from fatties His arms were definitely more in proportion to the rest of his body before it was filled with 400lb of whale blubber 
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Dec 14, 2015 17:30
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Iglocska posted:Ah I thought more like limiting how much people can spend so they don't end up buying space ships for $30k and using up their kids college funds. that works too putting a cap on spending/day/month whatever is good it's not hard and needs regulation. in-app purchases and crowdfunding are running amok right now, BECAUSE THERE IS NO REGULATION. It's literally a billion dollar industry and the groups getting into it today are going to profit out the wazzou edit: Imagine if a single video game had a max amount you can spend of $1000 a year. That seems so ridiculously reasonable to anyone with a healthy mindset for video games. Such a model would crush Star Citizen. They prey on retarded people Madcosby fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 17:31
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Iglocska posted:It would be drat difficult to regulate though. Where would you draw the line? I think we're going to have to realize that trying to regulate addiction as if it were simply a vice instead of a medical concern is not the proper way to handle things. Over the last two decades there's been a great deal of study into the mechanism of addiction and rapid cycle feedback loops that those people tend to suffer from. One of the most interesting things going on in the EU has been the embracing of that research to help deal with the drug type of addictions: http://sciencenordic.com/heroin-clinics-improve-addicts-lives Regulation is a different problem for addiction because it does not treat the medical cause (in cases like gambling addiction), and thus provides no net benefit as those who suffer from addictive personalities will switch to a different type of activity. Gamblers tend to become impulse purchasers, or find illegal ways of avoiding gambling restrictions like online poker leagues. The justice system, especially in the US, is still far too focused on punishment and not on science-based approaches to address causative factors. Like what Mad poses is that they require open financials for crowdfunding projects, but how will that help private companies, like King who makes Candy Crush Saga? That game makes roughly $800,000 to $1 million every day from its microtransactions, the majority of which comes from under 2% of the user base. This is a wider problem, and I'd be interested to see solutions that are based on researched studies on how addictive loops actually function and the best cognitive methods for addressing them.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:37
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Iglocska posted:It would be drat difficult to regulate though. Where would you draw the line? How about "You as a company cannot sell a digital product without a specified release date and if you completely loving fail to hit that release date everyone can get a refund in no more than a week." We're not talking like, big daddy government here. We're talking basic consumer protections. Or, in keeping with the article, "Do not stalk people and cultivate addictive behavior by accumulating their personal information and using it to target ads at them." I mean I can't believe that's not already illegal.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:38
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Madcosby posted:that works too Lol all companies prey on retarded people
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Dec 14, 2015 17:38
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Loiosh posted:I think we're going to have to realize that trying to regulate addiction as if it were simply a vice instead of a medical concern is not the proper way to handle things. Over the last two decades there's been a great deal of study into the mechanism of addiction and rapid cycle feedback loops that those people tend to suffer from. One of the most interesting things going on in the EU has been the embracing of that research to help deal with the drug type of addictions: http://sciencenordic.com/heroin-clinics-improve-addicts-lives this is like taking rehab advice from a junkie
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Dec 14, 2015 17:39
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neonbregna posted:Lol all companies prey on retarded people And some of them are regulated to try to curb it, Lenin
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Dec 14, 2015 17:39
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Tokamak posted:it really devalues your ship purchase if you are easily able to make illegal copies. SC will be fine and work perfectly* until someone with LTI and $1500+ LE ships start to LET PEOPLE steal their ships on purpose so everyone gets a limited edition ship to fly anytime they want. *not really
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Dec 14, 2015 17:39
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Iglocska posted:Ah I thought more like limiting how much people can spend so they don't end up buying space ships for $30k and using up their kids college funds. Madcosby posted:that works too it's probably not reasonable to say "per day/month spending" cap because where do you draw the line really, you can blow your kids college fund on a summer cottage or midlife-crisis-mobile but as soon as it's something virtual then it's verboten? and what's disposable for one person is critical food and rent money for someone else, so who's going to keep track of that? the irs requires you declare the amount you spent on virtual stuff on your taxes and comes after you if you spent too much?  gambling has restrictions but they're not around "amount you can spend", it's "how unfair the house is allowed to tilt the odds in it's favor" open financials would be the only real thing you can do and hope that having the press jump on the fact that you spent $30mil of your funding on airplane sofas is enough to ward off people before it turns into a cult hell, the one kickstarter project that I know of that actually got a federal lawsuit slapdown was explicitly related to where the money actually went, so open financials is probably the only sane way to go about it
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Dec 14, 2015 17:39
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neonbregna posted:Lol all companies prey on retarded people It's the American way!
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Dec 14, 2015 17:40
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Loiosh posted:My friend on his massive 400 kbps downstream finished the download this morning. I asked him to join me, but he said he'd do it tonight. So, we'll see. Will I be able to get into a Constellation? Will we be able to fly out on it and do a mission? Will fun be had?! I'll know tonight. Don't worry, even if your friend doesn't arrive, even if you have the worst gaming session ever, full of bugs and people clipping thru the floor of the ship, you'll still have fun and come back to the thread saying that your expectations were met and your faith in the potential of the game restored.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:42
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Sarsapariller posted:How about "You as a company cannot sell a digital product without a specified release date and if you completely loving fail to hit that release date everyone can get a refund in no more than a week." We're not talking like, big daddy government here. We're talking basic consumer protections. The first one - sure, what do you do about in-app purchases for current mobile games? Some of them make Star Citizen look like it's the little leagues. They're already released so no harm done to them. For the second one: There's too much money in that. Google, Amazon, etc all do exactly that. Try searching for a specific item on amazon, you'll be seeing that on 70% of the websites you visit for the coming month. I am sure the lobby against any such regulation would be incredibly strong.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:43
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Madcosby posted:this is like taking rehab advice from a junkie Is there anything in my post you disagree with?
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Dec 14, 2015 17:43
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neonbregna posted:Lol all companies prey on retarded people Star Citizen just appeals to a very specific kind of retard.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:46
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trucutru posted:Don't worry, even if your friend doesn't arrive, even if you have the worst gaming session ever, full of bugs and people clipping thru the floor of the ship, you'll still have fun and come back to the thread saying that your expectations were met and your faith in the potential of the game restored. I did discuss my experiences with another alpha (Natural Selection 2) and the kinds of things I enjoy and dislike. Is the only reply that is satisfactory for you to be me lying about my experiences and opinions? That seems a bit unfair. Not only have I been offering (overly long) replies to explain my thoughts and opinions, but I also delve into the reasoning behind it to explain why I arrived at the opinion I did. But I guess you want me to just say I'm disappointed. Would that satisfy you?
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Dec 14, 2015 17:47
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D_Smart posted:They will never - ever - finish this game. It's not that they won't; it's that they can't. Anyone who looks at the scope of the game promised, and thinks that 2.0 is the light at the end of the tunnel, is a loving idiot. I've been doing this for over 30 years and have built bigger games, I've seen this all before. how can it be impossible to make a game of this scope if youve built bigger ones. something doesnt add up here. any comment?
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Dec 14, 2015 17:47
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Loiosh posted:Is there anything in my post you disagree with? i didnt read it
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Dec 14, 2015 17:48
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Madcosby posted:i didnt read it 'k
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Dec 14, 2015 17:49
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Iglocska posted:The first one - sure, what do you do about in-app purchases for current mobile games? Some of them make Star Citizen look like it's the little leagues. They're already released so no harm done to them. To some degree I don't really see in-app purchases as a major issue. Yes they are exploitative, but only in the sense that they present a thing and then the customer either does or does not buy it. Yes they are fine tuned to grab a certain set of people's attention and addiction, but so is almost every other major marketing scheme, games have just found a new niche. I feel like it's a lesser evil to leave people free to make their own mistakes than it is to try and stamp this out. The point where it crosses the line though is when they start blatantly lying to people or making promises they can't back up, which is where Kickstarter has brought us. There is too much money in it, in both of these practices really, but I'm not sure there's enough corporate will to cement them yet. Even if so, it'll only get worse over time so we might as well push for legislation sooner rather than later.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:49
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Loiosh posted:I think we're going to have to realize that trying to regulate addiction as if it were simply a vice instead of a medical concern is not the proper way to handle things. Over the last two decades there's been a great deal of study into the mechanism of addiction and rapid cycle feedback loops that those people tend to suffer from. One of the most interesting things going on in the EU has been the embracing of that research to help deal with the drug type of addictions: http://sciencenordic.com/heroin-clinics-improve-addicts-lives "Before limit the amount of money you can spend on candy crush to 5 dollars a day (or whatever), before we do any single thing we have to come to an agreement on the framing of our problem, then we need propose some solutions based on the researched studies on how... whoops! is it 2050 already? time does sure fly fast!"
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Dec 14, 2015 17:51
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FrankieGoes posted:Go yiff yourself, Wesha.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:53
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"Thank you great heroes of out time for donating tens of thousands of your dollars to help create Star Citizen the best drat flight simulator ever." - a 14 year old retard who had his mom buy him the game and just shot you to death for no reason
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Dec 14, 2015 17:53
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neonbregna posted:In honor of If this is a serious challenge, then I am 100%  for it.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:56
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Madcosby posted:this is like taking rehab advice from a junkie don't teach me about rehab dude i been in rehab half my life 
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Dec 14, 2015 17:58
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My avatar text was not literal More shitposts please, Tia
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Dec 14, 2015 17:58
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Loiosh posted:I did discuss my experiences with another alpha (Natural Selection 2) and the kinds of things I enjoy and dislike. Is the only reply that is satisfactory for you to be me lying about my experiences and opinions? That seems a bit unfair. Not only have I been offering (overly long) replies to explain my thoughts and opinions, but I also delve into the reasoning behind it to explain why I arrived at the opinion I did. The thing is that, just like addicts justify all the crap they have to do to get their fix, you'll rationalize (in forty paragraphs or so, using well thought-out sentences) anything in the game in order to reach your pre-determined conclusion of the game showing lots of promise which justifies you not getting a refund. Reading that you're dissapointed is not something that will satisfy me (because I don't give a crap about that). Surprise me? yes, a lot. but that's about it.
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Dec 14, 2015 18:00
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Loiosh posted:Is there anything in my post you disagree with? not who it was directed at, but while I don't disagree with the fact that the US is a bit too hung up on punishment over rehabilitation, the problem is that "addiction" to something that in and of itself isn't illegal is a very wide and fuzzy grey line. it's easy to slap people for being addicted to things that are illegal because you're not slapping them for addiction, you're slapping them for the inherent illegality. it gets a bit trickier to try and make a broad and wide-ranging litigation for something that's comparatively more ephemeral like "buying too many sofa cushions"-- which is why addiction rehab tends to involve familial intervention and trying to convince the addictee that they are in fact addicted to whatever thing, be it video games or in app purchases or the internet or eating too many cookies or whatever it is that's giving them that endorphin rush. trying to litigate that opens a really big can of ethical worms that i don't think anyone but the most puritanical of lawmakers would be comfortable poking at-- and god knows i wouldn't trust anyone in office to try and grasp that particular snake. so yeah while I may think that excessive in-app purchases and $18,000 completionist packages are scummy and lovely, it's not my place to pin someone's arms to their side, or advocate someone else to do it for me-- they and the people around them that are affected by their actions should be the ones responsible for saying at what point "too much" is. what people value and what amount they have to spend on those things is way, way too nebulous to try and restrict in any official capacity. and this comes back around to that whole "promise of a delivered product" vs "open financials" thing, because saying "I will spend $100m to make this video game" and spending it on expensive vacations and airplane furniture is a far more concrete and enforceable thing to point at and say "yes, this is actually objectively A Bad Thing", whereas the in-app purchases are exactly what they say on the tin. (the subject of catfishing sods on facebook for marketing purposes is a  i won't touch)
Ursine Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 18:00
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