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Colorless is basically a 6th flavor of mana for all intents and purposes, and I think that's the best way to think about it. The only differences between it and WUBRG are that a) outside of OGW (and maybe future Eldrazi sets) it does not appear in costs and b) it does not count as a color. This was always the case, it's just clearer now with the new symbols.
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Dec 15, 2015 02:51
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C is paving the way for a non-broken return to Mirrodin.
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Dec 15, 2015 02:53
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jassi007 posted:The funny part is if you say to someone "oh neat now my Kozilek EDH deck has basic lands" they understand it with no problem. There are 5 colors + colorless. But try to say its a 6th whatever, hooo boy. you know that's a funny thing too, Barry's Land has finally (sorta kinda) been printed but it's just like whatever, changing a symbol is what's causing the freakout
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Dec 15, 2015 02:54
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mandatory lesbian posted:you know that's a funny thing too, Barry's Land has finally (sorta kinda) been printed but it's just like whatever, changing a symbol is what's causing the freakout Considering a 6th color retrofit doesn't really add anything to the game at this point in development I don't really get why anyone is excited by it. I've never understood why anyone is attracted to the notion of Barry's Land outside of Commander though, either, but it's existed as a concept long before Commander was a format.
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Dec 15, 2015 02:57
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The Lord of Hats posted:We suffered through Thoughtseize Standard too recently to be hype about another, arguably stronger, 1 cmc discard spell. Laughing really hard at this. IOK is powerfull, but nowhere near as powerful as throughtsieze, especially in standard. It is only played at fewer copies than IOK in some decks in modern and that is mostly a meta decision. There is a good arguement that IOK would be a mediocre card at best in standard. Sickening fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 02:57
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Colorless is basically a 6th flavor of mana for all intents and purposes, and I think that's the best way to think about it. The only differences between it and WUBRG are that a) outside of OGW (and maybe future Eldrazi sets) it does not appear in costs and b) it does not count as a color. This was always the case, it's just clearer now with the new symbols. Right. It has always been that way, it just doesn't really have anything that solidly defines it. Either they have something really definitive to show that defines colorless, or we've seen it. Colorless things in general seem to occupy the space of can do anything expensively, but we can generate a lot of mana to make it not actually that expensive. With Urzatron All is Dust is a cheaper sweeper than Wrath of God. Colorless rewards playing colorless. Sigma-X posted:Considering a 6th color retrofit doesn't really add anything to the game at this point in development I don't really get why anyone is excited by it. I've never understood why anyone is attracted to the notion of Barry's Land outside of Commander though, either, but it's existed as a concept long before Commander was a format. I think more than anything it probably gives those players who really identify with a color/guild/shard something to identify their love of the grey/brown stuff in magic. Are you Team WUBRG or Team C? jassi007 fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 02:59
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Colorless as mechanically a 6th color has been around for a long time anyways. It's just that this is approaching it from the other end. Before you had cards like ancient tomb and city of traitors and cloudpost that gave you an incentive to play purely colorless cards. Now it's the spells rather than the mana telling you the same thing.
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Dec 15, 2015 03:00
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Since they're not completing the Tango Land cycle, do you think we should expect them in the next block? Or are they going to go the way of the Fast Land where we get left hanging?
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Dec 15, 2015 03:07
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Sigma-X posted:I've never understood why anyone is attracted to the notion of Barry's Land outside of Commander though, either, but it's existed as a concept long before Commander was a format. The point of Barry's Land is to boost your Domain count... which Wastes doesn't actually do. It's sort of like how if you look at the list of problems that the Tribal type was intended to solve, it doesn't actually address any of them.
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Dec 15, 2015 03:10
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Sigma-X posted:Considering a 6th color retrofit doesn't really add anything to the game at this point in development I don't really get why anyone is excited by it. I've never understood why anyone is attracted to the notion of Barry's Land outside of Commander though, either, but it's existed as a concept long before Commander was a format. Your relentless "I HATE {C} BECAUSE IT'S BAD" is getting really old. Wastes is primarily there to support {C} in the draft format while providing colorless EDH deck a basic land option. It's not trying to be barry's land at all.
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Dec 15, 2015 03:12
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Sickening posted:Laughing really hard at this. IOK is powerfull, but nowhere near as powerful as throughtsieze, especially in standard. It is only played at fewer copies than IOK in some decks in modern and that is mostly a meta decision. Given that Standard is all about CMC 4+ "haymaker" plays (Rhino, Tasigur, Dragons, Gideon, Ulamog) it'd be pretty meh. It'd do more work than Duress/Despise just because of its flexibility but the only deck IOK would really tear up is Jeskai since it hits basically everything in the deck. I think. E: It can't even rip the Dig out of the control deck's hand even though Dig rarely costs more than 2. 
Cernunnos fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 03:13
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Sigma-X posted:Considering a 6th color retrofit doesn't really add anything to the game at this point in development I don't really get why anyone is excited by it. I've never understood why anyone is attracted to the notion of Barry's Land outside of Commander though, either, but it's existed as a concept long before Commander was a format. New things are cool I am excited for new thing because I am not a BEEP BOOP robot
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Dec 15, 2015 03:14
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Being able to fetch a source of (C) with basic searching effects is likely to be pretty relevant in draft - Evolving Wilds and Pilgrim's Eye in BFZ can now serve as additional (C) sources if you picked up at least one Wastes in OGW, and there could easily be more. That could maybe come up in standard if there's a deck that "splashes" (C) also. Also from an FNM perspective it's probably better that someone can just throw together a bunch of Wastes if they want to play a (C) deck, rather than having to scrounge together a bunch of random nonbasics.
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Dec 15, 2015 03:17
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I sort of understand now how I must've looked to other people and I must apologize. And I like Sea Gate Ruins so I'll use that to pester my cats.
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Dec 15, 2015 03:20
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Lottery of Babylon posted:The point of Barry's Land is to boost your Domain count... which Wastes doesn't actually do. They have to type a basic land to make it count for domain. The problem is typing a new basic retroactively effects old cards. Even if they're stupid old cards like Coalition Victory. There is no reasonable way to resolve this, you either accept that cards like that that used to require 5 lands and 5 creatures or whatever multicolor combination now requires 6 lands and 5 creatures, or you start errating a stuff. Neither of which they'll ever really do. It is also one of the reasons a true 6th color "purple" won't be added. Wastes is an elegant a way to do something as they can reaonable make given the 15,000 prior cards in existence.
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Dec 15, 2015 03:29
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Yeah, magic's an old game with legacy mechanics that have been improved upon, for better or worse. They can only do so much with what it started with.
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Dec 15, 2015 03:31
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my favorite part of this brand new sixth color is how it has been produced by cards -- by lands even! -- since literally the first set in magic. a ton of foresight there by Richard Channing Garfield, PhD truly he is one of the great minds of our time
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Dec 15, 2015 03:34
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yeah, there is literally nothing changing from a game play perspective by making wastes or giving colorless a symbol. it is literally that they are just getting the templeting done 20+ years late.
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Dec 15, 2015 03:42
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I almost wish they'd done the change to the colorless mana symbol in Origins. Core sets have been used to make rules/templating changes often and it would have hinted at colorless being a thing in BFZ block without giving too much away.
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Dec 15, 2015 03:52
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black potus posted:my favorite part of this brand new sixth color is how it has been produced by cards -- by lands even! -- since literally the first set in magic. a ton of foresight there by Richard Channing Garfield, PhD Alpha has no lands that tap for colorless
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Dec 15, 2015 03:54
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literally all thats new is colorless cost which has been possible forever just never used. "you must spend at least two colorless mana to pay Kozilek's mana cost" or something. plenty of mana restrictions. also how bout some sw8 pale moon synergy amirite
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Dec 15, 2015 03:56
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black potus posted:literally all thats new is colorless cost which has been possible forever just never used. "you must spend at least two colorless mana to pay Kozilek's mana cost" or something. plenty of mana restrictions. I was literally about to make this exact same post
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Dec 15, 2015 03:57
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cheetah7071 posted:Alpha has no lands that tap for colorless o true I confused antiquities lands w alpha
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Dec 15, 2015 03:57
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jassi007 posted:WRONG! Generic. I don't know, Olivia wins the game if they can't answer her within a turn and she can at least conditionally protect herself from Lightning Bolt.
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Dec 15, 2015 03:58
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black potus posted:literally all thats new is colorless cost which has been possible forever just never used. "you must spend at least two colorless mana to pay Kozilek's mana cost" or something. plenty of mana restrictions. no man its new and impossible and it's breaking my mind
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Dec 15, 2015 03:59
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Colorless blood moon is gonna cost like 3CC and be named "Kozilek's Moon" and be a picture of his butt!
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Dec 15, 2015 04:00
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Colorless blood moon is gonna cost like 3CC and be named "Kozilek's Moon" and be a picture of his butt! make this happen so my buddy who hates affinty can bitch about more.
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Dec 15, 2015 04:01
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Colorless blood moon is gonna cost like 3CC and be named "Kozilek's Moon" and be a picture of his butt! Can't wait to put this in my colorless EDH deck that I play once every 3 months.
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Dec 15, 2015 04:04
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I just started playing magic at my local store again after a hiatus. I love limited, drafting specifically, and was impressed with the Battle For Zendikar set. However, my LGS does a thing called "rare redrafting" which I didn't realize, and ended up missing out on the foil Gideon, Ally of Zendikar I opened. Why would anyone do rare redrafting?
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Dec 15, 2015 04:08
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mandatory lesbian posted:no man its new and impossible and it's breaking my mind *loud distressed grunting*
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Dec 15, 2015 04:11
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reprint chaos moon in ogw that card's p neato
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Dec 15, 2015 04:11
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black potus posted:*loud distressed grunting* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnsiZOJjfUg
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Dec 15, 2015 04:14
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Gyshall posted:I just started playing magic at my local store again after a hiatus. I love limited, drafting specifically, and was impressed with the Battle For Zendikar set. Well, you could have refused to hand over the card you own at any time. Remember that next time.
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Dec 15, 2015 04:19
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whydirt posted:I almost wish they'd done the change to the colorless mana symbol in Origins. Core sets have been used to make rules/templating changes often and it would have hinted at colorless being a thing in BFZ block without giving too much away. This also would have been perfect for avoiding the "spoil C's appearance in the small set" problem that they might have had with doing it in BFZ: *sees Origins* Oh, I bet BFZ block is going to key off of the new symbol in some mechanical way! *sees BFZ* Oh, there's nothing about colorless mana here and the colorless cards mechanic is actually Devoid. Guess it was a red herring. *sees OGW* 
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Dec 15, 2015 04:22
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Gyshall posted:I just started playing magic at my local store again after a hiatus. I love limited, drafting specifically, and was impressed with the Battle For Zendikar set. its so that when some jackass pulls a goyf they don't just peace out and leave your group missing a player.
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Dec 15, 2015 04:24
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R. Channing Garfield in Magic Mike 3: This Time He's a Wizard alternate joke by my wife: put his face on Big Dick Rick black potus fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 04:26
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Fiend Computer posted:its so that when some jackass pulls a goyf they don't just peace out and leave your group missing a player. Rare redrafting actually guarantees that not redrafting means they just draft it?
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Dec 15, 2015 04:27
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Also the store should (in theory) be giving you a sizeable discount on the entry fee relative to drafts for which a store needs to provide prize support.
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Dec 15, 2015 04:27
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Sigma-X posted:That confusion didn't exist until they invented ♦ as a casting restriction that is no different from any other 6th color implementation and is completely mechanically identical to color restrictions. Until the ♦ symbol showed up in a casting cost there was literally no functional difference between using generic mana in a colorless spell versus using colored mana as generic. Just think. Instead of posting this for the twentieth or so time you could have done something else. Wouldn't that be amazing?
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Dec 15, 2015 04:40
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mandatory lesbian posted:i thought it was pretty dumb too but i think all the people who can't seem to wrap there heads around the change are also dumb to be quite frank Basically this. It's not that loving hard to figure out. My buddy got it pretty quickly as well in 2 questions.. "What's this diamond poo poo now?" "It's colorless mana." "So you can only spend colorless instead of anything on it? Like 2 colorless and 8 whatever else?" "Yes." "That's cool." Now stop trying to overthink this poo poo.
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Dec 15, 2015 04:45
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