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Gyshall posted:I just started playing magic at my local store again after a hiatus. I love limited, drafting specifically, and was impressed with the Battle For Zendikar set. I win at least 1/3 of the drafts I go to and I still think its dumb. Every store around me does it though. I guess they're worried about losing all their regulars over the 2$ price increase it would cost them to add prize support (to be fair they are probably right). It has a noticeable effect of driving away new people who lose a bunch and leave with a 50 cent rare (or nothing if they had a bad time and wanted to leave early) Fiend Computer posted:its so that when some jackass pulls a goyf they don't just peace out and leave your group missing a player. I've never actually been to a keep draft do people actually do this?
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Dec 15, 2015 04:48
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little munchkin posted:I've never actually been to a keep draft do people actually do this? no they just draft the goyf, i really don't know what that dude's talking about
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Dec 15, 2015 04:49
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Gyshall posted:I just started playing magic at my local store again after a hiatus. I love limited, drafting specifically, and was impressed with the Battle For Zendikar set. Theoretically to reduce the cost while still providing prize support. For instance, a $10 draft would have about a dollar per player put into the prize pool. That's, well that's pretty lousy. With rare redrafting EVERYBODY WINS. Everyone gets a chance at cards, everyone walks away with 3+ rares. Also it allows players to draft optimally according to their deck rather than chase $$$. In reality, because god knows having your prize support be reliant on player honesty and total lottery seems like a great idea to some players. Because a kid opening a foil money rare doesn't _deserve_ that card and won't place high enough to keep it (sarcasm). Because Magic players are a masochistic lot. For what it's worth, I'm in the camp that rare redrafting is stupid. ESPECIALLY in a set with Expeditions. Honestly wish that WotC would simply state that sanctioned events can't have rare redrafting. That said, unless they declared redrafting loudly and clearly before pack 1 was opened and/or during signups I'd have politely but firmly said no when they stated to turn in the rares. Because had you known it you would have been wholly justified in saying "I drop" with your $40 foil rare.
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Dec 15, 2015 04:52
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little munchkin posted:I've never actually been to a keep draft do people actually do this? Only time people will drop from a draft normally is when they open a pack that's something like Gideon & Expedition. Otherwise you draft the card that's worth more than entry and pass the rest. Only time you'd drop with only one money card is from a redraft, because per WotC you own the cards that are in your hand.
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Dec 15, 2015 04:53
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It's really weird how people espouse redrafting as this money saving thing because back on the island, I still draft for $10 and that's for a full draft including prizes. When I drafted here and it's $15 I thought it was a ripoff until I saw that's how everyone else did it. It's still a ripoff wtf. Anyway, it's just a way to keep grognardy LGSs that way and to make sure the boys' club only has the regulars instead of new people who would be excited about getting a lottery jackpot every now and then.
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Dec 15, 2015 04:55
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PJOmega posted:For what it's worth, I'm in the camp that rare redrafting is stupid. ESPECIALLY in a set with Expeditions. All the stores near me have a policy where if you open an expedition you can buy the pack for 5$ and open a new one to draft with. Gonna cause some feelbads when I open up a strip mine and can't play it. little munchkin fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 04:55
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My place outright says you don't have to redraft expeditions.
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Dec 15, 2015 04:58
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Irony Be My Shield posted:My place outright says you don't have to redraft expeditions. they're losing out on 5 bucks then. That's just bad business, smh...
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Dec 15, 2015 04:59
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Like LSV, I think that redrafting is good when you and some friends draft packs for fun on your own and awkward at best otherwise.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:00
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little munchkin posted:All the stores near me have a policy where if you open an expedition you can buy the pack for 5$ and open a new one to draft with. Gonna cause some feelbads when I open up a strip mine and can't play it. That's what ours does. Or if you get something dumb like Gideon - foil Gideon you can buy another pack. But it has to be an expedition or something that never should happen.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:03
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One half of the SCG coverage team is moving on. https://twitter.com/BasicMountain/status/676612662034358272 Pertaining to coverage in 2016. https://t.co/FlcHyHsld8
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Dec 15, 2015 05:08
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little munchkin posted:I've never actually been to a keep draft do people actually do this? There's no reason to do this in a keep draft because you can just take the expensive card and it's yours forever. The only reason anyone would ever leave with cards in a keep draft is if they open something dumb like Gideon and an Expedition in the same pack, and some stores will just let you buy a new pack to replace it for the draft since someone not wanting to pass a $40 card is pretty understandable.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:12
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Errant Gin Monks posted:That's what ours does. Or if you get something dumb like Gideon - foil Gideon you can buy another pack. But it has to be an expedition or something that never should happen. Buying another pack if you get some insane open is exactly what we do at the shop I frequent, because the guys that run it are nice guys and would rather a full pod play than have someone leave because they opened too much value to pass. The store is also full of a lot of older (30ish) guys who have good hygiene and are sociable so we don't get a lot of grognard behavior, and the guys who run it are super nice, so no one cares and we're all just happy to play. I like when people post about their weird shops with terrible people and rules because it makes me appreciate how decent the one I go to is.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:15
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If I have a 40 card deck, 19 of which are lands, I mulligan to 6, keep a 2-land hand, and scry away a non-land, what are the odds I'll draw a third land by turn 3? I'm on the play.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:17
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Redrafting is good if you are the kind of person who drafts a ton and can reasonably expect to be 2-1 or better in most pods because it (usually) means lower cost of entry, and you get more value out of drafts on average. These are typically also the players who are going to be doing house drafts (and it is perfectly fine in a house draft). It is terrible for everyone else, because if you *aren't* a good drafter you're just going to get a bunch of garbage every week. It's a rich get richer, poor get poorer kind of situation. People will say "Oh, but now you feel motivated to keep that sweet foil Gideon you opened, because apparently winning a bunch of packs just doesn't do it, you have to feel pressured to keep what feels like it's already yours.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:20
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I'm phone posting, but off the top of my head it'd be roughly 75%. (17/33 + 16/33 * 17*32 or roughly the same as getting at least one heads from two coin flips)
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Dec 15, 2015 05:20
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BJPaskoff posted:If I have a 40 card deck, 19 of which are lands, I mulligan to 6, keep a 2-land hand, and scry away a non-land, what are the odds I'll draw a third land by turn 3? I'm on the play. Roughly 78%, so pretty good odds! Without the scry, your odds would have been around 76%
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Dec 15, 2015 05:24
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Yeah I really like what my local shop does. We're fairly competitive (no 'pros', but we're drafting to win). Draft: 'Normal', ie keep what you draft. No feelbads (example: last week, player to my right opened foil Gideon in pack 3. Took it home with him despite being in U/B). Prizes: 1.5 packs/person. Open all the packs, draft the prizes according to standings. (example: last week, I took first place b/c red was the place to be. Gideon was opened in one of the prize packs, which was awesome as my draft was worth about 50 cents up to that point). With Expeditions, the fight for first place has been extra tough. Unfortunately, we have yet to open one despite drafting the set every week... The only time that I would recommend a full rare-redraft would be in team draft (you and your friends, all about equal skill level, choose random teams and winning team keeps everything). Or, you know, junk rare draft 
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Dec 15, 2015 05:26
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sarmhan posted:We've seen literally one card with Diamond in the cost and you're already declaring that it doesn't do anything? We've seen multiple cards with ♦ costs on them and I don't think it's a very exciting mechanic. I get that I'm in the minority but I still haven't seen any cards or any potential speculations about the future of ♦ that leave me at all excited by it. Zendikar block is home to a million of my favorite cards in the game and BFZ/OGW are complete loving trash and incredibly unexciting to me. As someone who was originally thinking bout getting into standard when BFZ came into rotation because I had been on a long hiatus from standard, the sets thus far look the be the least interesting sets to me that they've produced since kamigawa block. The whole thing is a huge disappointment to me and the most interesting cards in either zen set so far are Newlamog, who is a boring but kinda more powerful version of an existing card I play, and a completely utilitarian boring upgrade card that is at mythic for no good reason. Like, I bought about a case of Zen/WWK combined, and I bought a case of ROE. I drafted these sets religiously at least once a week, and with ROE in particular I drafted the set literally about 100 times between paper and MTGO. I love the gently caress out of legacy, enjoy the hell out of modern, and am completely loving disinterested in playing a standard that involves these sets at this time. Different strokes for different folks, I'm glad some other folks are totally excited about the wonderful mechanical possibilities that a half-assed 6th color retrofit provides, but I can't see it as anything other than a half-assed 6th color retrofit and given that their marquee mythics of kozilek, who should be awesome, and that mythic land, which should be awesome, are both boring as hell instead and feel like lame retreads of things we've seen before outside of having ♦ in their costs. Which indicates to me that we are more likely going to get some boring poo poo like a mana rock that costs 1♦, maybe an on curve 2♦ 3/3, and other completely unexciting things like that instead exciting things like...anything that had annihilator stuck on it was. Add all of that together with the fact that they picked the worst time to introduce the new symbol (small second set) so that most of the cards you'll be using to enable it aren't even printed with their most recent rules text despite being 3 months old, just reeks of poor execution and planning and that reek doesn't usually come attached to secret darlings. If I was a pessimist I would say that BFZ is what we'll look at in a few years when we try to pinpoint the moment that Magic tripped on its dick and started to bleed out, but I don't actually think the game is going to be any smaller in 5 years. But between expeditions being a sales gimmick to shore up set sales while being coupled with the most uninteresting sets they've done in a long time doesn't leave me excited for new magical cards. And as a huge magic fan that bums me out in a way that mediocrity in something I'm not passionate about wouldn't. I'm bitching so much not because it's the literal worst thing they've ever done (Homelands and Fallen Empires exist) but because I had really high hopes for this set and it's failed to meet them spectacularly.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:26
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C opens up a lot of design space for the future to print good colorless cards without having to worry about every single deck being able to include them at no cost. Right now they've done that primarily by having colorless-only interactions, but C is a more elegant solution for the long term. Agreed on the actual implementation in BFZ and Oath being kinda weird but whatever.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:34
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quote:If I was a pessimist I would say that BFZ is what we'll look at in a few years when we try to pinpoint the moment that Magic tripped on its dick and started to bleed out, but I don't actually think the game is going to be any smaller in 5 years. But between expeditions being a sales gimmick to shore up set sales while being coupled with the most uninteresting sets they've done in a long time doesn't leave me excited for new magical cards. And as a huge magic fan that bums me out in a way that mediocrity in something I'm not passionate about wouldn't. I actually really like BFZ. The power creep in Khans has gotten stupid so this is one of the sets that squash it back down. I'm actually hoping innistrad is even less powerful. Sure it's not completely overpowered and ridiculous like original zendikar but that's not really necessary. I'm enjoying landfall and converge and dumb big aliens. It's a sight better than loving seige rhino. Voyager I posted:C opens up a lot of design space for the future to print good colorless cards without having to worry about every single deck being able to include them at no cost. Right now they've done that primarily by having colorless-only interactions, but C is a more elegant solution for the long term. I agree, I think they should make some badass new artifacts and equipment but use C. That will be more better.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:35
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Cactrot posted:One half of the SCG coverage team is moving on. I would assume it has something to do with him only being a contractor. That really surprised me when i leared that. I have always wondered what cedric and patrick made as being commentators for SSG but I always figured that since the coverage was a such a big marketing tool for them that they had to at least pay something decent. considering he was only a contractor I can only assume not having insurance and other benefits is a pretty big deal. Good on him for getting a real job. Really sucks though, hunt is going to make me want to mute the stream more often than not. Going to be a lot less motivation to watch the stream. Edit* It does appear that he linked the converage change in his twitter post as well. Maybe they will have less events to cover and he will make less money?
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Dec 15, 2015 05:35
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Sickening posted:I would assume it has something to do with him only being a contractor. That really surprised me when i leared that. I have always wondered what cedric and patrick made as being commentators for SSG but I always figured that since the coverage was a such a big marketing tool for them that they had to at least pay something decent. considering he was only a contractor I can only assume not having insurance and other benefits is a pretty big deal. Good on him for getting a real job. The way he said it made it sound like he had been a contractor at Activision for a year. Maybe I read it wrong.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:38
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this is some comedic routine where the subtle joke is that hearthstone won't somehow have drained magic of its lifeblood in five years right
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Dec 15, 2015 05:38
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Rare-redrafting is all well and good when it's 8 people doing a draft for no official prize support. When it's the "prize support" for a sanctioned event it's just stupid.logis posted:Yeah I really like what my local shop does. We're fairly competitive (no 'pros', but we're drafting to win). This is an interesting way of doing prizes.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:39
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Sigma-X posted:We've seen multiple cards with ♦ costs on them and I don't think it's a very exciting mechanic. I get that I'm in the minority but I still haven't seen any cards or any potential speculations about the future of ♦ that leave me at all excited by it. quote:Zendikar block is home to a million of my favorite cards in the game and BFZ/OGW are complete loving trash and incredibly unexciting to me. As someone who was originally thinking bout getting into standard when BFZ came into rotation because I had been on a long hiatus from standard, the sets thus far look the be the least interesting sets to me that they've produced since kamigawa block. The whole thing is a huge disappointment to me and the most interesting cards in either zen set so far are Newlamog, who is a boring but kinda more powerful version of an existing card I play, and a completely utilitarian boring upgrade card that is at mythic for no good reason. quote:I love the gently caress out of legacy, enjoy the hell out of modern, and am completely loving disinterested in playing a standard that involves these sets at this time. Different strokes for different folks, I'm glad some other folks are totally excited about the wonderful mechanical possibilities that a half-assed 6th color retrofit provides, but I can't see it as anything other than a half-assed 6th color retrofit and given that their marquee mythics of kozilek, who should be awesome, and that mythic land, which should be awesome, are both boring as hell instead and feel like lame retreads of things we've seen before outside of having ♦ in their costs. Which indicates to me that we are more likely going to get some boring poo poo like a mana rock that costs 1♦, maybe an on curve 2♦ 3/3, and other completely unexciting things like that instead exciting things like...anything that had annihilator stuck on it was. quote:Add all of that together with the fact that they picked the worst time to introduce the new symbol (small second set) so that most of the cards you'll be using to enable it aren't even printed with their most recent rules text despite being 3 months old, just reeks of poor execution and planning and that reek doesn't usually come attached to secret darlings. quote:If I was a pessimist I would say that BFZ is what we'll look at in a few years when we try to pinpoint the moment that Magic tripped on its dick and started to bleed out, but I don't actually think the game is going to be any smaller in 5 years. But between expeditions being a sales gimmick to shore up set sales while being coupled with the most uninteresting sets they've done in a long time doesn't leave me excited for new magical cards. And as a huge magic fan that bums me out in a way that mediocrity in something I'm not passionate about wouldn't. Sarmhan fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 05:41
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Errant Gin Monks posted:I actually really like BFZ. The power creep in Khans has gotten stupid so this is one of the sets that squash it back down. I'm actually hoping innistrad is even less powerful. Sure it's not completely overpowered and ridiculous like original zendikar but that's not really necessary. BFZ draft is awesome. Standard may be good, who knows with the dumb manabase prices. It is interesting to see what happens to Tron in modern, this set just seems bent on feeding it. I think BFZ is better for eternal than it first appeared, Wasteland Strangler is a card I see a lot of people experimenting with in some interesting ways. The new 2BB 3/4 guy looks like he has potential for modern Jund, expeditions are cool and I hope they keep doing them. Randomly opening $50+ cards is the best feeling and there is no downside.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:41
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Errant Gin Monks posted:The power creep in Khans has gotten stupid You are legitimately insane
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Dec 15, 2015 05:48
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Cactrot posted:One half of the SCG coverage team is moving on. Sad news
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Dec 15, 2015 05:50
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Errant Gin Monks posted:The power creep in Khans has gotten stupid so this is one of the sets that squash it back down. I'm actually hoping innistrad is even less powerful. Sure it's not completely overpowered and ridiculous like original zendikar but that's not really necessary.    
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Dec 15, 2015 05:51
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BJPaskoff posted:If I have a 40 card deck, 19 of which are lands, I mulligan to 6, keep a 2-land hand, and scry away a non-land, what are the odds I'll draw a third land by turn 3? I'm on the play. Other people already answered this, but in case you or anyone else is wondering this is the tool to use to answer almost any "what are the odds I draw X" question: http://stattrek.com/online-calculator/hypergeometric.aspx Your setup would be a population size of 33 unknown cards in your deck, 17 successes for the remaining lands, and a sample size of 2 cards drawn from the deck. Odds of 1 or more successes in the sample are 77%.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:55
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TheKingofSprings posted:You are legitimately insane Perhaps. But it's how I feel. I'm not enjoying the ridiculous mana bases of fetches and duals at once that allow for 4 and 5 color good stuff decks with very little down sides. I'm tired of 4/5 trample lightning helix for 4 mana, I'm tired of Jace (and I use him, and yes I know he is from Origins). Atarka red can legitimately win turn 4, which is ridiculous. Standard is decently fun, don't get me wrong, but I am hoping that when Khans rotates out it will calm it down a little. BFZ draft is all kinds of fun.
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Dec 15, 2015 06:00
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Perhaps. But it's how I feel. I'm not enjoying the ridiculous mana bases of fetches and duals at once that allow for 4 and 5 color good stuff decks with very little down sides. I'm tired of 4/5 trample lightning helix for 4 mana, I'm tired of Jace (and I use him, and yes I know he is from Origins). Atarka red can legitimately win turn 4, which is ridiculous. You just listed 2 good cards that are 2/3rds surrounded by a pile of garbage for deck filler E: Take a break from Standard, go play some Modern or stop playing until the next set comes out, you're at the point where you're bored of Standard
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Dec 15, 2015 06:01
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sarmhan posted:See, this is why I can't take you very seriously. You're just tossing out the whole loving mechanic based on 3 cards, and I don't know how Mirrorpool or ruins of sea gate are 'lame retreads' of anything we've seen before, unless you mean 'library of alexandria, one of the best cards of all time'. We're definitely going to get vanilla stuff, but that's literally every set. Rise had vanilla stuff too you know. I guess you really love annihilator, but there's really no argument for it to come back in any quantity- it was really divisive the first time around. I am tossing out the whole mechanic on 3 cards. Because you can point to any other mechanic and show me the terrible limited filler cards that use that mechanic and I get more excited than I do with these, which are supposed to not be limited filler cards but instead the marquee exciting cards for the mechanic. I'm not kidding, I think wither is more interesting than this is, because any constraint or consideration it places on deck building and gameplay is literally no different than if you had just splashed an off color in your deck. Maybe this will actually look like a good limited mechanic but the marquee mythics don't appeal to me. Ruins of the Sea Gate costing effectively 4 mana and hellbent is a far cry from library of alexandria, it's as apt a comparison as saying Blanchwood Treefolk is just like Tarmogoyf, one of the most powerful cards of all time, because it's a 4/5 for just 3 more mana than goyf, so I'm sorry I don't share your excitement. Maybe there is some application that will make it interesting and exciting but the only thing I've seen suggested is putting it in loam, which is a deck that has lands that let it draw for G already and don't require being on the battlefield and using your engine cards to do so. I don't get excited about Mikokoro either, for what it's worth, although I am sure that this will find itself in commander decks just like Mikokoro does. I'm posting my thoughts about magical cards in a magical cards thoughts thread and while we don't have to agree on this, do me a favor and don't assume that I'm SUPER MAD IRL about this serious business and tell me I need to take a break. You're acting like I need to make strong objective arguments to legitimize the fact that I think this mechanic is stupid and WOTC handled it terribly but you're not doing that yourself, nor is it really possible to have objectively correct opinions on card games.
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Dec 15, 2015 06:02
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Perhaps. But it's how I feel. I'm not enjoying the ridiculous mana bases of fetches and duals at once that allow for 4 and 5 color good stuff decks with very little down sides. I'm tired of 4/5 trample lightning helix for 4 mana, I'm tired of Jace (and I use him, and yes I know he is from Origins). Atarka red can legitimately win turn 4, which is ridiculous. I can't fathom how you would have this opinion unless you haven't played any other standard before.
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Dec 15, 2015 06:03
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Sigma-X posted:I am tossing out the whole mechanic on 3 cards. Because you can point to any other mechanic and show me the terrible limited filler cards that use that mechanic and I get more excited than I do with these, which are supposed to not be limited filler cards but instead the marquee exciting cards for the mechanic. I'm not kidding, I think wither is more interesting than this is, because any constraint or consideration it places on deck building and gameplay is literally no different than if you had just splashed an off color in your deck. Maybe this will actually look like a good limited mechanic but the marquee mythics don't appeal to me. Ruins of the Sea Gate costing effectively 4 mana and hellbent is a far cry from library of alexandria, it's as apt a comparison as saying Blanchwood Treefolk is just like Tarmogoyf, one of the most powerful cards of all time, because it's a 4/5 for just 3 more mana than goyf, so I'm sorry I don't share your excitement. Maybe there is some application that will make it interesting and exciting but the only thing I've seen suggested is putting it in loam, which is a deck that has lands that let it draw for G already and don't require being on the battlefield and using your engine cards to do so. I don't get excited about Mikokoro either, for what it's worth, although I am sure that this will find itself in commander decks just like Mikokoro does. You seem to have 'back up your opinions with things that aren't broad assertions' confused with 'I demand objectivity all the time'. I'm not the one throwing out my opinion constantly and strongly, because I haven't actually come to a strong conclusion yet, because we haven't seen much of the goddamn set yet. Also, your bar for excitement seems to be 'eternal playable', which is something the Magic community is notoriously bad at judging, and also something that doesn't occur often. If you're expecting every set to shake up modern/legacy you're going to be sorely disappointed.
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Dec 15, 2015 06:10
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TheKingofSprings posted:You just listed 2 good cards that are 2/3rds surrounded by a pile of garbage for deck filler It's quite possible. I took a month off to draft BFZ but we aren't popping at the store for draft recently so I went back to standard. I could go back to modern, playing burn is fun. Sickening posted:I can't fathom how you would have this opinion unless you haven't played any other standard before. I have played standard for longer than its been called standard. And I'm not saying is is the most powerful standard ever, hell it may not be powerful at all and I'm just burnt out on it. That's totally possible. Full disclosure I started playing in 1993 when I was in Highschool.
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Dec 15, 2015 06:12
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I gotta agree with Sigma-X that diamond cards don't excite me yet. So far, every card with a diamond in its cost is just blue by another name. We have countering, cloning, and card draw, which are all blue effects. Where's the new designs?
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Dec 15, 2015 06:13
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Errant Gin Monks posted:It's quite possible. I took a month off to draft BFZ but we aren't popping at the store for draft recently so I went back to standard. I could go back to modern, playing burn is fun. You are burnt out, this standard isn't very strong at all E: it's seriously telling how low power it is that or two fringe modern playable cards centralize everything around them
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Dec 15, 2015 06:15
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I'd imagine C cards will be aligned with Kozilek in general, much as Ingest/Process were aligned with Ulamog. I'd expect to see elements of blue and black mixed up, with a focus on mind manipulation. So cloning, countering, and card draw are all in, but so is discard, graveyard nonsense, colorless spell triggers as per previous sets. There's also space for them to further define what 'Kozilek' means. We don't really know because again, 3 cards is a terrible basis for judging a mechanic. How much variety can you really expect?
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Dec 15, 2015 06:17
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