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From the presentation, CofD isn't going to be changing any. OP is going to be the sole producers of it and the new WW crew seem to see it as more of a tabletop only thing that won't really be cutting in on their business.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:24
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Pope Guilty posted:V:tES is coming back, as is the Elder Kindred Network As an LCG, right? I mean. Not as a CCG. That would be crazy.  I mean, I'm not sure I was even able to sell any of my V:tES this year, maybe this'll help me dump it. I always thought of it as "mechanically rigorous without actually being fun". Pope Guilty posted:They're going to crack down on unauthorized uses of their IP Will they finally do something about Dark Phoenix Publishing, then...?
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Dec 15, 2015 05:28
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Pope Guilty posted:They actually thought about killing the NWoD instead of just renaming it Well, that seems to be the last nail in the coffin of any hope for NWoD games. Which is a shame, but not really unexpected. e: I'm probably reading too much into that line, but I'd still say they're a long shot at best.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:32
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Androc posted:Well, that seems to be the last nail in the coffin of any hope for NWoD games. Which is a shame, but not really unexpected. They could always come back to it in the future? 
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Dec 15, 2015 05:35
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Alien Rope Burn posted:As an LCG, right? I mean. Not as a CCG. That would be crazy. Well, they have mentioned reaching out to FFG...
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Dec 15, 2015 05:39
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Pope Guilty posted:They actually thought about killing the NWoD instead of just renaming it Motherfuckers. they are going to ruin this.
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Dec 15, 2015 06:19
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Kavak posted:The mod might be the "other" unofficial patch. The creator is incredibly juvenile (Porn everywhere and putting wesp's avatar or something in the game's toilets) and just plain nuts (He sealed the mod off behind a forum post wall and called wesp "Junior Hitler" in a rant just because he's German.) That's Tessmage, the modder who slams wesp over the slightest alteration to any game content outside of pure bugfixes, and meanwhile Tess meticulously repositions every NPC near a dance floor so that there's no chance of there being any issues of the player's model clipping into any NPCs and thus ruining the aesthetics of all his custom nude mods.
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Dec 15, 2015 07:14
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Kavak posted:Who was that retailer, anyway? I'm afraid I can't say due to the manner in which I came by the information. It was not hobby trade retailer.
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Dec 15, 2015 07:24
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MonsieurChoc posted:Motherfuckers. they are going to ruin this. Nah, Martin's a fan of Promethean. Honestly, there's no way you make this move without considering options like shuttering things. It would be irresponsible not to. As for WoD, the original developed an international following while there was still the traffic to get local editions out. NWoD/CofD never really had the chance to do that. In any event, the name change makes sense because NWoD ended up not being the sort of direct successor originally envisioned, CWoD came out, and it created a bit of brand confusion. I know there are a few jackasses out there screaming "Victory! Vindication!" because of a branding shift, but dumb people are everywhere. It's interesting to see references to European LARP. MET is also its own nostalgia product and as I said, now largely impenetrable to outsiders. The European scene has a ton of diversity and lessons to teach, and best of all, it seems the folks at WW know it well. Over in North America "Nordic" often has sort of this Very-Serious-Hope-To-Write-A-Paper broken telephone cult of middle class respectability going on, but the folks in the actual Nordic scene are pretty interested in traditional RPGs these days.
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Dec 15, 2015 07:38
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Frankly, as much as I like the 20 books and am looking forward to owning my shiny copy of Wraith 20, the old World of Darkness should have stayed dead. It's time was past, and no brand confusion that way. Seriously, that video trailer for the "One World of Darkness" is a super good example of how dated the oWoD feels. It's going to take a ton of work to make it work for modern audiences that wouldn't be needed with the Better World of Darkness. MonsieurChoc fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 07:43
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Point me at a Wraith book to pull ideas from for my nHunter game.
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Dec 15, 2015 07:59
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I Am Just a Box posted:Maybe Gangrel, the professional wrestling vampire? A brief wiki check says he's still performing somewhere, although I'm unclear whether he's still going by the name. Not that I recall off the top of my head, and a quick Find in the vamp file only showed a Nosferatu and an Assamite antitribu wrestler.
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Dec 15, 2015 07:59
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crime fighting hog posted:I know it's a longshot, but this could be really wonderful if done right. Each season focuses on a different line, like one for Vampire, then Mage, and taking place in a different part of the country but with references of events that happened in the previous season and so forth. Imagine if they do it like the last season of Arrested Development, only every episode is a different clan/tradition.
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Dec 15, 2015 08:15
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Peztopiary posted:Imagine if they do it like the last season of Arrested Development, only every episode is a different clan/tradition. We discussed this before. Gob was Ravnos, Tobias was a Malkavian who thinks he's a Toreador, Ann was Nosferatu, Anyong was Kuei-Jin, etc.
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Dec 15, 2015 08:18
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I thought they lost the Gangrel Wrestler case, because they had insufficient proof of them defending their copyright in the past.
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Dec 15, 2015 08:35
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MonsieurChoc posted:Seriously, that video trailer for the "One World of Darkness" is a super good example of how dated the oWoD feels. It's going to take a ton of work to make it work for modern audiences that wouldn't be needed with the Better World of Darkness. Modern audiences? Doubtful. Paradox was pretty explicit in the original buyout announcement that the goal was to win back the old oWoD audience, all of whom are now well into their thirties at the youngest.
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Dec 15, 2015 08:39
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It's trademarks that must be defended. Copyright doesn't have to be.
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Dec 15, 2015 08:39
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Loomer posted:Not that I recall off the top of my head, and a quick Find in the vamp file only showed a Nosferatu and an Assamite antitribu wrestler. The entirety of oWoD in all its excess is justified by the existence of El Diablo Verde.
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Dec 15, 2015 08:40
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edit: apparently the forums agreed enough to make the same post twice
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Dec 15, 2015 08:42
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All I know is, I don't think the world can bear even one more Malkavian in a miniskirt. I'm not saying that's what they'll do. But the possibility scares me. I want to see the OWoD reimagined for 2015. I'm scared we'll see a WoD-as-if-nothing-has-changed-since-the-Clinton-era. The world has changed. Our views on sex and gender have evolved. Race and culture are better represented now. Even our tolerance for certain mechanics has changed. I just hope Paradox treats the property well. Mendrian fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 09:13
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Mendrian posted:All I know is, I don't think the world can bear even one more Malawian in a miniskirt. I'm not saying that's what they'll do. But the possibility scares me. This is one of my hopes too. I want them to scrub away the 90's feeling from the game. It part of why I lept for the nWoD: I hated how weirdly dated the oWoD felt by the time the early 2000's rolled around. It was fine when I was in high school, but growing up a little made it almost unbearable, despite how much I still liked it. Bellicose Buddha fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 10:19
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Yeah, there's parts even I'm not fond of in that respect. A lot of what I love is how ridiculously 90s it can be, but there's a lot of bad 90s elements too, if that makes sense.
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Dec 15, 2015 10:39
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Yeah going from the presentation they talked a lot about updating the WOD and bringing it into the modern era so I'm hoping that means jettisoning the gross, backwards stuff. The problem is so much of that is baked into the setting that you'd basically have to do what CofD did if you want to really purge it and if you're going for the old players/bringing back the glory days, I can't imagine they're going to want to change up too much. We'll see, I guess. Also for as popular as it is Bloodlines is really showing its age. There's a lot of cringe-worthy nerd garbage in it. MonsieurChoc posted:Motherfuckers. they are going to ruin this. In the actual presentation they didn't make it sound like they were going to axe it. The grog guy was basically like "yeah nwod is doing well as its own thing and also I like it so we're not gonna kill the whole line, we're just rebranding it." Luminous Obscurity fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 12:40
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Yeah I don't know how much penetration the classic wahd had in Europe, but trying to market it to a more international audience faces the issue with the abuse of foreign language seen in the previous games, as well as the ethnic / regional stereotyping. But it could just be mountains and molehills, I don't know if other countries care any more than we Anericans ever did.
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Dec 15, 2015 14:26
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Inzombiac posted:Point me at a Wraith book to pull ideas from for my nHunter game. The TL;DR version of Wraith hunting is to not actually fight her. Run it as a series of mini objectives, focused on eliminating the anchors that hold her to the world. It can be anything from junking her treasured sportscar, eBaying her album collection, or convincing her son that she wasn't actually the World's Best Mom. Remember that Wraiths have a shadow that's obsessed with ending themselves. So it's entirely possible (and likely) for it to cryptically offer "help" in the most spiteful, hateful way. ("Smash the car into her son, I'll help by burning her albums!") The core book or player's guide have all the information you'd need for that. Again, Wraiths are super hard to fight because they're not entirely in the same plane (sort of) as the rest of the WoD and that creates a lot of interaction issues. You might want to check out The Risen or Mediums, or even the oHunter The Walking Dead enemy book. I'd recommend Mediums if you just want some Wraith-flavored enemies. The other two books deal with your corporeal Brandon Lee "the Crow" type ghosts, if you want a more conventional enemy.
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Dec 15, 2015 15:28
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Yeah I don't know how much penetration the classic wahd had in Europe, but trying to market it to a more international audience faces the issue with the abuse of foreign language seen in the previous games, as well as the ethnic / regional stereotyping. My impression has been that the oWoD was actually far more popular in Western/Northern Europe than the nWoD. I've met lots of people hugely into the various oWoD games who still run or want to run games, especially oVampire. oVampire is big enough in Norway that the one cult-entertainment franchise we have here bough POD versions of oWoD metaplot books to have on their shelves so they could sell them. There's apparently enough oWerewolf fans in Norway that putting three copies of Apocalypse on one's shelves was a worthwhile endeavour. The store also had some copies of Gehenna and Ascension too - and they're gone now, so someone clearly bought them. Perhaps the huge popularity of the 20th Anniversary editions and oWoD reprints under OPP has convinced Paradox that there's significant money in the oWoD market that that the nWoD wasn't getting? (Or perhaps they're just a bunch of huge nerds who spent money to get the oWoD license so they could make more stuff for the favourite RPG out of love. Maybe not financially sound, but things made for love rather than pure profit warms my heart a little.)
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Dec 15, 2015 15:37
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Inzombiac posted:Point me at a Wraith book to pull ideas from for my nHunter game. I'm gonna recommend the Orpheus line (or the first Orpheus book if you need just one) cause re: Wraith that's something I'm going to recommend till my dying breath and possibly beyond. (I felt true joy the day when they announced that Orpheus content will be a part of the Wraith 20th corebook) (I felt true sorrow the same day for quite the same reason) Foglet fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 16:01
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I think the reasons the nWoD isn't as well known are more related to the very different markets. If the Better WoD (it's the new name now) had had the old one's marketing, it would be just as popular if not more.
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Dec 15, 2015 16:23
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So I'm getting back into Vampire after ignoring it for a zillion years, and like an Elder awakening from Torpor and shocked by the new world that emerged from the Fog of Eternity, I was extremely surprised to find out that there's A.) a second edition of VtR and B.) it kind of owns??? Is there a handy guide for converting first edition characters to second edition? Also, do systems from 1st edition supplements (merits from the Carthian book, let's say, or being a Hollow Mekhet) still work?
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Dec 15, 2015 16:31
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MonsieurChoc posted:I think the reasons the nWoD isn't as well known are more related to the very different markets. If the Better WoD (it's the new name now) had had the old one's marketing, it would be just as popular if not more. The old one's marketing included things like tapping into subcultures and weltantschanunge that were strongly 90's; I'm not sure it would be possible for the nWoD to have tapped the same market, since said market evaporated after the 1990's. Perhaps if they'd tried harder to pander to noughties late teens and young adults' desire to be part of a special subgroup, but that itself was a very 90's thing that died out a bit.
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Dec 15, 2015 16:35
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Empress Theonora posted:Is there a handy guide for converting first edition characters to second edition? Also, do systems from 1st edition supplements (merits from the Carthian book, let's say, or being a Hollow Mekhet) still work? There is not - the XP system was overhauled so radically that I don't really think it'd convert. Merits will need to be examined case-by-case, as well, but IIRC a lot of the Carthian merits are actually in 2e by default. Being a Hollow Mekhet is not converted over yet, either, but I'm pretty sure it'll be in a supplement pretty soon because it was really cool and popular. That said I don't recall much about it that'd break in 2e, since it doesn't involve merits or derangements that I can recall.
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Dec 15, 2015 16:44
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Mors Rattus posted:There is not - the XP system was overhauled so radically that I don't really think it'd convert. Merits will need to be examined case-by-case, as well, but IIRC a lot of the Carthian merits are actually in 2e by default. Being a Hollow Mekhet is not converted over yet, either, but I'm pretty sure it'll be in a supplement pretty soon because it was really cool and popular. That said I don't recall much about it that'd break in 2e, since it doesn't involve merits or derangements that I can recall. Yeah, I guess the only thing that really jumps out at me as being a bit weird with using Hollow Mekhet in second edition (at least from my cursory knowledge of it; I'm still reading through it all) is that there's not really any mechanic for it getting worse as your humanity gets lower? But that could probably just be represented as your reflection becoming more active and malicious.
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Dec 15, 2015 17:01
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convert them into a series of conditions?
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Dec 15, 2015 17:07
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LatwPIAT posted:Perhaps if they'd tried harder to pander to noughties late teens and young adults' desire to be part of a special subgroup, but that itself was a very 90's thing that died out a bit. This was a huge part of oWoD's success, imo. The clans / tribes / traditions spoke to the identity group politics of the era in the same way that Geocities "which Friends cast member are you?" quizzes or teen magazine "test your friendship style profile" things did. You had stuff like the guy who always played Brujah because he dressed like a Ramone IRL, theater kids playing Toreador, etc. People don't really group up like that now that how we interact has changed, but I think that the nostalgia component for WoD is perhaps stronger than most games because it's also nostalgia for how people identified and presented themselves in the 90s / 00s.
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Dec 15, 2015 17:09
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moths posted:This was a huge part of oWoD's success, imo. The clans / tribes / traditions spoke to the identity group politics of the era in the same way that Geocities "which Friends cast member are you?" quizzes or teen magazine "test your friendship style profile" things did. Yeah this is huge. It's also important to note that the Clans don't just hit on identity archetypes, they specifically target sources of ostracism. Crazy, artist, biker. I guess the Tremere represent people who lock themselves in a closet to study for midterms for the rest of eternity. I think that struck a pretty deep cord with people, particularly in the 90s, when we were all still under the illusion that we were all being alone and unique until social media turned that whole thing upside down. I could live with the Clans' essential stereotyping if they don't throw in the gross stuff on top of it.
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Dec 15, 2015 17:48
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I'll be very curious to see how they handle the various End of the World scenarios in an updated setting. The easiest thing to do, of course, would be to say "they haven't happened yet," but it might be interesting to take a look at a Gehenna that fizzled out or some such.
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Dec 15, 2015 17:52
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quote:Yeah this is huge. It's also important to note that the Clans don't just hit on identity archetypes, they specifically target sources of ostracism. Crazy, artist, biker. I guess the Tremere represent people who lock themselves in a closet to study for midterms for the rest of eternity. I think that struck a pretty deep cord with people, particularly in the 90s, when we were all still under the illusion that we were all being alone and unique until social media turned that whole thing upside down. I, too, know the pain of being shunned for being an Eastern European aristocrat who can't stop going on about the artistry inherent in rearranging people so their bones are on the outside.
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Dec 15, 2015 17:53
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Rand Brittain posted:I, too, know the pain of being shunned for being an Eastern European aristocrat who can't stop going on about the artistry inherent in rearranging people so their bones are on the outside. The 'Sabbat' Clans weren't even originally playable. I think there's a reason for how they're presented. That's why Toreador get to be the 'Clan of Artists' and the Followers of Set are 'Egyptian'; 'non-playable' Clans were more about weird foreigners or super mustache twirling evil than about identity politics because nobody was supposed to identify with them. I'm not saying this is knowing malice on the part of the designers. But I'm sure, in retrospect, it's kind of how things worked.
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Dec 15, 2015 17:57
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Luminous Obscurity posted:Yeah going from the presentation they talked a lot about updating the WOD and bringing it into the modern era so I'm hoping that means jettisoning the gross, backwards stuff. The problem is so much of that is baked into the setting that you'd basically have to do what CofD did if you want to really purge it and if you're going for the old players/bringing back the glory days, I can't imagine they're going to want to change up too much. We'll see, I guess. If they have to reboot Vampire for grandmas, I'd like to see updated Vampire clans rather than just rehashing old stereotypes. Theres room for shiny prettyboy vampires that the other clans all hate along side weird not-klingons. There's rooms for fabulous aztec hunks who shoot fluid from their eyes along side not-Mages (but with blood).
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Dec 15, 2015 18:05
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At what point is it no longer oWoD and just The Even Newer World of Darkness?
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Dec 15, 2015 19:24
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