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Notorious b.s.d. posted:it is admittedly something of a chicken/egg problem. much of the what is today the nyc subway was built speculatively. tracks and stations built into farms and cowtowns. and they spent an unholy amount of money to build it all -- the first bonds for subway construction were worth something like 50% of the property value of manhattan. and they all went bankrupt and had to have the city take them over lol
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Dec 12, 2015 23:07
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Buses are cool because you don't have to drive or park
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Dec 12, 2015 23:29
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:also real "bus trains" exist Maybe they're aping Paris who also have those Efb by so demanding
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Dec 13, 2015 00:08
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buses are cool at night when there's no traffic
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Dec 13, 2015 00:08
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Progressive JPEG posted:Maybe they're aping Paris who also have those where in paris do they have those?
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Dec 13, 2015 00:20
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theflyingexecutive posted:buses are cool at night when there's no traffic also early morning in cities that arent car centric hellscapes
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Dec 13, 2015 00:21
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Here is the full timetable for the nearest bus to my house (still ~12min away) samtrans is a joke
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Dec 13, 2015 00:22
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Progressive JPEG posted:Here is the full timetable for the nearest bus to my house (still ~12min away) there's a bus that goes directly from my apartment to very close to my mother's house it runs 5 trips a day, only in afternoons, weekdays only
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Dec 13, 2015 00:25
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mishaq posted:where in paris do they have those? Wikipedia says lines 1, 4, 6, 11, 14
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Dec 13, 2015 00:26
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Progressive JPEG posted:Wikipedia says lines 1, 4, 6, 11, 14 
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Dec 13, 2015 00:28
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youve also prolly ridden a rubber tire train if youve ever used a train/apm in an airport. most of those systems are rubber tire. they put less wear/tear on their right of way and can be smoother rides, but they arent any cheaper to build and the trains take slightly more maintenance also lots of people in lots of cities take buses to work everyday in the US. like, millions of people
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Dec 13, 2015 07:15
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Cygni posted:youve also prolly ridden a rubber tire train if youve ever used a train/apm in an airport. most of those systems are rubber tire. they put less wear/tear on their right of way and can be smoother rides, but they arent any cheaper to build and the trains take slightly more maintenance yeah ive noticed those are but i had no idea several entire lines of the paris metro were 
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Dec 13, 2015 07:56
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lomarf
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Dec 13, 2015 10:07
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Cygni posted:also lots of people in lots of cities take buses to work everyday in the US. like, millions of people approximately 99% of those people would rather be taking literally any other mode of transport the other 1% are commuter buses. they have fewer of the problems that mark regular buses because they make very few stops. pick people up at three pre-arranged, pre-paid stops, drive for an hour, let everyone off. they're really expensive but people use them voluntarily and even pay for them
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Dec 13, 2015 14:40
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Progressive JPEG posted:Maybe they're aping Paris who also have those They actually licensed the technology, RATP acted as a consultant. Also, they use brake shoes made out of wood. On line 6 in Paris you can clearly smell the burnt wood when trains get into a station, it's actually nice!
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Dec 13, 2015 16:31
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I really liked Montreal's door chime thats in tune with the sound of the train revving up, they play a little song every time they leave a station https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEzfDMksHA
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Dec 13, 2015 18:05
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Beeftweeter posted:yeah its garbage because i actually live off the G ( G train best train never has anyone hassling you for money and you never go through Manhattan. The lack of a real transfer to Atlantic Av is super annoying, and their reasoning for not providing a free swipe from Fulton is  http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/G_LineReview_7_10_13.pdf
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Dec 13, 2015 20:44
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) so to transfer there i have to go past jay st anyway. but oh no reason really its just work ruining my weekends
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Jimmy Carter posted:G train best train Jimmy Carter posted:you never go through Manhattan. 
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Dec 13, 2015 20:52
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Jimmy Carter posted:G train best train the mta watches operating costs incredibly closely. on a thirteen billion dollar budget, a $1 million dollar cost to improve rider experience is the end of the freaking world. there's a long list of cool stuff you will never get for this reason. controlling operating costs is one of the mta's core missions and they are not going to back away from it. so on the operating side, if nothing else, they are trustworthy stewards of public funds. meanwhile, on the capital side, projects go 500% overbudget and nobody cares. entire subway systems have been constructed in europe in less time and for less money than individual stations in nyc. south ferry - a project to replace a single subway station with a new station a few yards away
east side access - a project to connect grand central to howard interlocking via a pre-existing tunnel under the east river
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Dec 13, 2015 21:07
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you'll never get your free transfer because the MTA watches operating costs too closely but you'll never get a tunnel or station extension because nobody trusts the MTA to watch capital costs on anything, ever. and with good reason. MTA capital planning purchasing is either incompetent, corrupt, or both.
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Dec 13, 2015 21:09
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Dec 14, 2015 00:59
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Jimmy Carter posted:G train best train sorry the g train actually sucks. gently caress those unreliable baby trains
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Dec 14, 2015 01:08
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Dec 14, 2015 05:20
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looks like pop is officially rolled out on all the streetcar routes http://ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Proof_of_payment.jsp got stopped by a fare check getting off the 506 this morning
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Dec 14, 2015 15:31
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In the Netherlands they have one card, OV-Chip, that is used for transport in any city on any mode of public transport as well as for trains traveling within in the Netherlands. It is quite handy. I also appreciate that they charge by your distance traveled rather than per ride
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Dec 14, 2015 15:52
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The Puppet Master posted:I also appreciate that they charge by your distance traveled rather than per ride the fare scheme depends on development patterns and who you are trying to serve the argument for a fixed fare is that you don't want to penalize poor people for living far from city center, and you don't want to subsidize rich people who can afford to live 5 minutes from work. a fixed fare is not universally better than or worse than a variable fare, you just gotta consider your goals and poo poo
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Dec 14, 2015 15:54
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:the fare scheme depends on development patterns and who you are trying to serve That's a good point. I believe one way they try to mitigate this is by providing a discount card for more frequent riders and students (40% off the usual cost). One other fun feature is that if you are traveling with someone who has a discount you can load a 40% discount on your own card.
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Dec 14, 2015 15:59
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Chris Knight posted:looks like pop is officially rolled out on all the streetcar routes http://ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Proof_of_payment.jsp the last time i saw anyone from fare enforcement was when they introduced all door boarding on the 504. other than the homeless, who the hell is dodging fares these days? The Puppet Master posted:That's a good point. I believe one way they try to mitigate this is by providing a discount card for more frequent riders and students (40% off the usual cost). the TTC is tripping over themselves trying to figure out how to implement a discount plan for low income folks. they are very bad at doing anything that has to target specific groups, so they program will probably be both massively inconvenient and if possible very demeaning to use
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Dec 14, 2015 17:59
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:people hate buses because they take for loving ever and make you late for literally any appointment you might have. it is not possible to ride a city bus and live up to basic obligations of middle class life. I never thought about this before, but this must be the cause of the stereotype of always being late.
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Dec 14, 2015 21:12
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:approximately 99% of those people would rather be taking literally any other mode of transport I think you underestimate how convenient a good bus service can be. I often take a couple for distances which I would never drive or take a train, but because there's a bus every 3 minutes I can just turn up and hop on
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Dec 14, 2015 22:54
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Progressive JPEG posted:Here is the full timetable for the nearest bus to my house (still ~12min away) This on the other hand is a waste of everybody's time
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Dec 14, 2015 22:54
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pointsofdata posted:I think you underestimate how convenient a good bus service can be. I often take a couple for distances which I would never drive or take a train, but because there's a bus every 3 minutes I can just turn up and hop on frequency is good, but on-time performance is better neither can be guaranteed with any kind of surface bus service
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Dec 14, 2015 22:56
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:frequency is good, but on-time performance is better On time performance shouldn't be significantly worse than driving, and perhaps even better if you have dedicated bus lanes
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Dec 15, 2015 08:42
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assuming no one ever boards or exits, sure one single parent with a stroller and you're 5 minutes late
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Dec 15, 2015 08:47
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Lomarf. Epic subway timings till a crackhead chooses this train as his epic hill to die on and lays out on the tracks. delaying service for 99999999999999999999999 minutes
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Dec 15, 2015 09:05
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the worst subway is the one that serves sandwiches
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Dec 15, 2015 09:07
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Smythe posted:Lomarf. Epic subway timings till a crackhead chooses this train as his epic hill to die on and lays out on the tracks. delaying service for 99999999999999999999999 minutes
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Dec 15, 2015 17:10
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pointsofdata posted:On time performance shouldn't be significantly worse than driving, and perhaps even better if you have dedicated bus lanes unless you are literally the only passenger on the bus and the only vehicle on the road, it is guaranteed to be worse than driving
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Dec 15, 2015 17:55
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notorious b.u.s.
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Dec 15, 2015 17:58
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to be clear about where i am coming from, i am not saying that you shouldn't ride a bus. and investing in bus systems is still a worthwhile activity. i just want to point out the very real reasons that millions of people will not ride a bus. it doesn't matter how nice the buses are, or how many destinations they reach, or how well designed the system is. a large fraction of the population will never ride, because the downsides of buses outweigh any upside, period. that is ok it is still possible to have a transit system that improves everyone's lives even if half of adults won't ride it
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Dec 15, 2015 18:00
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