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NESguerilla posted:iirc they ended up being time consuming for me, because I was having trouble finding them in the first place and that area has some ridiculous road blocks that make you zig zag around the whole thing, which takes forever. I remember it being the most annoying area in the game to back track around. As much as I like some of the older crpg feel the developers cultivated, they really picked a lot of the wrong hills to die on.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:24
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popewiles posted:As much as I like some of the older crpg feel the developers cultivated, they really picked a lot of the wrong hills to die on. See: Pillars of Eternity for a nostalgia grip that makes most of the right choices on what to ditch.
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Dec 15, 2015 14:22
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NESguerilla posted:So you were just letting your guys die? I save scummed every time anyone got killed pretty much, outside of 1 or 2 companions I thought kind of sucked anyways.  I've never been much of a save scummer, and since I was always finding new recruits, I figured I'd end up with some kind of achievement for not having any original rangers left  NESguerilla posted:iirc they ended up being time consuming for me, because I was having trouble finding them in the first place and that area has some ridiculous road blocks that make you zig zag around the whole thing, which takes forever. I remember it being the most annoying area in the game to back track around. Yeah, the initial dog fight sucks because you're really not prepared for it on the first go-round. The intro to LA probably would have worked better if the chopper crashed offsite, and you had to find HQ, maybe getting a distress call over the radio to prepare you or something. Anyway, the base isn't that zig-zaggy if you use that waterpipe to knock down a wall. Again, I think the biggest problem is modern gaming really holds your hand for a long time, and then you're still set on rails, so there's a steep learning curve if you're used to that. In my current attempt a lot of things have turned out way different due to the fact that I'm using a different set of rangers and could do certain things differently.
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Dec 15, 2015 14:42
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I really wonder how it did go wrong like this. It had Chris Avellone working on it, and lots of people I respect. I really want to love this game, but it feels so lacking. Could they salvage this game on a possible sequel? If they made something that had the same jump in quality as Shadowrun vanilla to Dragonfall, it would be quite something. I hope they learned a lot of stuff to apply on Torment, a game that wasn't even turn based for starters. You could just use some broken build for the nameless one and blaze through the plot, something you can't do on wasteland even on easiest, it just makes the turn based combat even more of a slog.
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Dec 15, 2015 14:44
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Alchenar posted:See: Pillars of Eternity for a nostalgia grip that makes most of the right choices on what to ditch.
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Dec 15, 2015 14:57
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Fargo has said on various occasions that they'd be tremendously more empowered to make a WL 3 since they'd be able to fully justify getting out from the shadow of the original Wasteland as far as the oldest and cruftiest bits goes---just a matter of time and if they actually manage to do so I reckon, which I have to think is likely once their various other projects get situated and underlying tech far more upgraded.
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Dec 15, 2015 15:50
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ExiledTinkerer posted:Fargo has said on various occasions that they'd be tremendously more empowered to make a WL 3 since they'd be able to fully justify getting out from the shadow of the original Wasteland as far as the oldest and cruftiest bits goes---just a matter of time and if they actually manage to do so I reckon, which I have to think is likely once their various other projects get situated and underlying tech far more upgraded. I'd be totally ok with that. Let's be honest here, after all these decades and all the wave of post apocalyptic games (and spiritual sequels with a lot more style), their setting is way too bland. Also for some reason, I'd prefer a solo game with interesting npcs instead of a team of mute people.
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Dec 15, 2015 16:16
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Maybe if you could give your character some rudimentary personality AI, like in Divinity OS?
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Dec 15, 2015 16:20
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nerdz posted:I really wonder how it did go wrong like this. It had Chris Avellone working on it, and lots of people I respect. I really want to love this game, but it feels so lacking. I think they got too focused on the whole nostalgia aspect of the thing. They seemed to think that people really wanted an old school RPG like WL1, which came out 27 years ago, and that a lot of the advancements that RPGs and strategy games have made in the intervening time weren't necessary. There are no cool combat abilities, or interesting skills, or subsystems a player can mess around with, it's all so bare bones. Even most of the improvements in the director's cut, like aimed shots and character perks, are pretty much taken directly from Fallout, a game which is 18 years old. It's not like they're not capable of innovation either, check out this video of the combat/crisis system in the new Torment game: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/10/08/torment-tides-of-numenera-video/ It looks worlds ahead of WL2, and has a bunch of stuff which I don't think I've seen in any turn based combat system, I'm pretty excited for it.
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Dec 15, 2015 16:57
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Honestly I don’t think it’s a matter of slavish devotion to traditional RPGs (though that plays a part) as just not being great at making games. Fargo’s a slick salesman and I genuinely think he believes in what he’s doing 100%, but so far they’ve been able to talk the talk without walking the walk and I think trying to make an expansive, deep RPG was biting off more than they could chew for their first attempt at a really ambitious game. I’m hopeful for Torment, but we’ll see – I’ll wait until it’s released this time.
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Dec 15, 2015 17:04
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I think part of the problem with the big uptick in demand for old school games is that a good chunk of them use the "old school" aspect as such a selling point that they are too scared to take out the bad stuff about old games for the sake of authenticity. Either that or developers that haven't made a game since the 90's are using it as a reason to make games again, even though they are pretty out of touch. I think the biggest initial push for old school games was caused by the Souls games and X-COM eu, which are both funnily enough very forward thinking series' that use old school difficulty as part of their design. I'm playing Divinity as well and it's a bit of the same thing, where their are parts about it that seem really needlessly old school and really take away from the fun. It's even weirder for that game, since it does it's own thing more than WL2, then at the same time super uncompromising on certain things (movement speed is ridiculously slow, inventory is unwieldy as all hell etc.) That said, I do like WL2. It has a charm to it and I found it enjoyable for 40+ hours before I took a break and kind of lost interest. If they made a sequel that had improved combat, less bugs and maybe looked a little nicer I'd be all over it.
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Dec 15, 2015 17:52
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Oh, well now. Taking one of the new perks automatically re-writes your character into an honest to god birthday clown. I guess I'll start over again! I really don't want to hop on the hate bandwagon because I really almost love this game, but goddamn. Along with every other good point raised, this project smacks of 'Yes Man"- ism and a real lack of product motivated self critique. It just goes so madly off in so many directions. It's a game where a lot of fun was had building it, a few snags, some omissions, and just not enough time spent considering the end user. It's a lot like The Menagerie, where the player is Cpt Chris Pike, the Blonde is Wasteland 2, the Aspie Aliens are the Devs, and the crew of the Enterprise is the real human beings the player won't interact with while playing Wasteland 2. I'm going in for a cheated up content run, but I honestly don't know if I can finish this one either. If there's a WL3 I'll buy it and play it based on how much I liked the things that I liked, but for the love of God it needs at least ten more combat tiles for every one currently existing. Or a semi - randomized set like UFO Aftermath had (my other favorite nearly great squad based slog fest). Grinding random encounters is unavoidable, necessary, and awful simply because the optimal solution to each tile is solvable in three or so runs. But you'll be doing each of them many, many times on opposite sides of the world map. Edit: Aw gently caress, right. Created characters don't get saved to a pool. I actually do have to start over. It's like the game punishes you for wanting to spend your free time with it. Old Style Pilsner fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 18:26
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S.T.C.A. posted:
The rationale is the whole damned settlement is being overrun by murderbots which are being activated and sent out in waves. Most people are dead already and there are only a few holdouts left when you arrive; the mechanic even flat out says that "if you leave there might not be much to return to" or something similar. So once you enter it you have to deal with the problem.
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Dec 15, 2015 18:33
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Old Style Pilsner posted:Oh, well now. Taking one of the new perks automatically re-writes your character into an honest to god birthday clown. I guess I'll start over again!
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Dec 15, 2015 19:15
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I'll be doing a wacky clown run at some point. For now, I've booted up my old save and I'm enjoying myself again. Wasteland 2 and I are in a toxic BDSM relationship.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:53
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NESguerilla posted:I think part of the problem with the big uptick in demand for old school games is that a good chunk of them use the "old school" aspect as such a selling point that they are too scared to take out the bad stuff about old games for the sake of authenticity. Either that or developers that haven't made a game since the 90's are using it as a reason to make games again, even though they are pretty out of touch. Another thing to take into account is better graphics technology has actually slowed the games down. Wasteland 1 had all these bad things to it alongside its awesomeness, but everything was much quicker. Zip across a map with the arrow keys in two minutes, deal with any trash mobs by turning up the text speed to maximum and smacking enter. Now with the ability to do 3D graphics and big expansive maps, it suddenly shows up just how tedious it is to get around, and how tedious it is to actually watch everyone play their animation to run across the map, climb a ladder, turn and fire at you. I find I have to use Cheat Engine's Speedhack to make modern RPGs playable in anything resembling a reasonable amount of time. Shadowrun for instance is a lot more fun at 3x speed.
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Dec 17, 2015 09:58
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Gerblyn posted:I think they got too focused on the whole nostalgia aspect of the thing. They seemed to think that people really wanted an old school RPG like WL1 This game needed to do what it did. It revived the entire market, and now they can branch out more.
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Dec 17, 2015 10:04
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For sure, they also had to hit certain nostalgic notes and create something new with limited resources. I still love it though so I don't mind 
Ahundredbux fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 10:10
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FRINGE posted:This game needed to do what it did. It revived the entire market, and now they can branch out more. Perhaps, but the end result is a game that pandered to a relatively small niche of gamers, while leaving the mass of RPG fans wondering what all the fuss is about. It's still an okay game, but it's not an amazing one. They had a chance to take some risks with the design, and they chose not to, for better or worse. Gerblyn fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 10:49
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Wasteland 2 isn't perfect but it is one of my favorite recent RPGs. I didn't play many gold/platinum RPGs - I was into RTS and JRPG titles in those days - but I was still really able to enjoy it. What it does well is combining the experiences of a complex RPG and a pulpy adventure novel. That's going to appeal to a certain type of person regardless of their gaming background. Ironically, I didn't enjoy Pillars of Eternity nearly as much. In fact, I abandoned it shortly after reaching a full party. Charm counts a lot for me I guess and Wasteland 2 did it better. I clearly remember a ton of NPCs in Wasteland 2, way more than any other RPG I can think of. I guess what I'm saying is, tell me how to make POE fun because I bought it right before a sale and I'm pissed a little.
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Dec 18, 2015 22:39
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Moxie posted:I guess what I'm saying is, tell me how to make POE fun because I bought it right before a sale and I'm pissed a little. Play in bighead mode Real answer: make a party of 6 rangers with bear companions and own everything
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Dec 18, 2015 22:49
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Off topic but Underrail, another post apocalyptic turn based RPG is out of Early Access and it's a great game so far. It feels very good to me in a lot of ways that wasteland 2 failed to be so far. I made a stealth melee char and to my surprise, the stealth system is the best I've ever seen on a turn based rpg. You can start combat and lose your enemies if you move outside their field of vision, engage the stealth skill and keep your distance. If you get far enough they will eventually give up and you can end combat. It feels like MGS where you can salvage the situation and wait for the alarm after being spotted. Couple this with the sneak attacks and the myriad of mobility skills and you can pick off enemies one by one if you're pacient enough. This also gives you a chance to invade higher level enemy hideouts and escape with their expensive loot since being detected is not Game Over (though at least 50% of the time it still is). It's very cool that even if the game has a shitload of skills like Wasteland 2, it gives you an equally ridiculous amount of skill points per level and forces you to pick at least 8 skills to level up at once, so you can reliably choose 1-2 weapon skills, the two defensive skills, some thieving skills, one type of magic and the crafting of your choosing. Or you can go all out on two types of skills and become a battle mage or ranged scientist. I like that the skills are very good to the point of feeling broken, because the enemies become absolutely brutal real fast. I feel like I skipped some areas because right now I have to use every dirty trick to get by, avoid a lot of battles with sneaking and I feel that is by design, like in Divinity:OS. Even for players without a stealth skill, the game gives you options to avoid combat (ventilation shafts, alternate routes, etc). Dying on the first turn of a bad engagement without even getting to your turn is a normal occurrence right now. The Oddity XP system feels amazing. There are items hidden all over the world that give you XP when you pick them up. It makes you want to explore the game and look into every container, and equally rewards players that avoid combat or have other skills like lockpicking. Enemies drop these items too, so combat is rewarded. Since you can only earn so much xp from one item type, after killing the same enemies you won't get any more xp from them so you're not encouraged to grind. Just try to get over the lovely art, it kinda gets better as the game goes on. It's all 2d isometric pixel art, and it feels dated just like the fallouts and arcanum. But at least it's colorful sometimes. nerdz fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 16:29
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Moxie posted:
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Dec 19, 2015 17:19
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nerdz posted:Off topic but Underrail, another post apocalyptic turn based RPG is out of Early Access and it's a great game so far. It feels very good to me in a lot of ways that wasteland 2 failed to be so far. Cool, thanks for the review. I have been looking at it but the early access thing kept me from buying.
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Dec 19, 2015 18:41
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Playing this for the very first time, do you kids suggest sticking with the default party? Probably until I get a feel for all of the games systems?
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Dec 19, 2015 19:49
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omg chael crash posted:Playing this for the very first time, do you kids suggest sticking with the default party? Probably until I get a feel for all of the games systems? I recommend making your own rangers. Even if you do an imperfect job, you’ll probably do better than the default, and you’ll learn why your party is imperfect.
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Dec 19, 2015 20:53
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The default party is pretty competent though and you can really build them any way you want once you start playing. None of them are shotgunners right? Shotguns are such absolute dog poo poo in this game.
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Dec 19, 2015 20:58
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NESguerilla posted:None of them are shotgunners right? Shotguns are such absolute dog poo poo in this game. That’s maybe a little strong, but more importantly, shotguns are the most interesting weapons to use even if they’re not the most effective.
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Dec 19, 2015 21:22
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This may be a silly question, but I'm going into this pretty blind: will I get more party members as the game progresses?
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Dec 19, 2015 22:39
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Yeah there are a bunch. You can get one of the best ones 5 minutes into the game. She's standing just west of the graveyard.
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Dec 19, 2015 22:41
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Okay, cool. I'll probably just customize one to make ~myself~ and then use what they toss at me.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:34
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Can my dudes die permanently Xcom style?
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Dec 20, 2015 22:43
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omg chael crash posted:Can my dudes die permanently Xcom style? Yes, but most people just reload if that happens.
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Dec 20, 2015 22:45
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:you can't. Fun isn't balanced.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:59
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I just got this from the holiday sale. Great game. Took me 10 hours of gameplay to notice that music never played. What gives? Audio settings indicate music should be playing. Other games' music plays. Any advice to fix this?
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Dec 26, 2015 15:36
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Is there some trick to unlocking the mysterious shrine south east of Santa Fe? I have 10 perception and it refuses to show up.
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Dec 26, 2015 16:16
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Relin posted:Is there some trick to unlocking the mysterious shrine south east of Santa Fe? I have 10 perception and it refuses to show up. e im stupid
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Dec 27, 2015 00:20
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I just started the Director's Cut after quitting the vanilla version at the Ag Center last year. I'm at Highpool and enjoying it so far, but I'm dreading going back to the Ag Center. Is it still a horrible slog (and if so, is it possible to skip it altogether?) Lunchmeat Larry posted:you can't. Fun isn't balanced. I love PoE (it's prolly my GoTY) but this is its biggest flaw. I played on release and had a blast with overpowered ciphers and invincible fighters. Pretty much every exploit/broken build has been balanced out... Which I guess is good if you're playing an MMO? Thankfully they haven't messed with the ridiculous Rogue + Wizard synergy....
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Jan 3, 2016 13:55
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AfricanBootyShine posted:I just started the Director's Cut after quitting the vanilla version at the Ag Center last year. I just started and am doing/dreading the same thing. I just got inside Ag Center so I guess I'll find out. I do like some of the new maps they added for random encounters though 
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Jan 3, 2016 13:59
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I didn't find the Ag Center so bad, just creep a dude ahead and pop all the pods.
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Jan 3, 2016 14:53
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