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susan posted:Logistics questions for y'all that Google ain't helping with: Corellian corvettes like the Tantive can land, so I don't see why not.
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Dec 15, 2015 10:18
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Generally, if a ship has ship for a shuttle bay, its too big it land, and if it does have a shuttle bay, it can land.
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Dec 15, 2015 13:43
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nothing to seehere posted:Generally, if a ship has ship for a shuttle bay, its too big it land, and if it does have a shuttle bay, it can land. Although, it varies on the ship too. You can just say your ship is modified to aid in ground combat operations since the Victory Star Destroyer can do that and who doesn't want that fire power right close?
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Dec 15, 2015 14:58
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Halloween Jack posted:The fact that Palpatine seems to love his job and is simply outsmarting the Jedi at every turn also makes it harder to see the whole situation as an epic tragedy. Maybe it's not actually an epic tragedy to have a bunch of dogmatic slavery-enablers betrayed and killed by a serial betrayer-killer.
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Dec 15, 2015 15:08
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homullus posted:Maybe it's not actually an epic tragedy to have a bunch of dogmatic slavery-enablers betrayed and killed by a serial betrayer-killer. How about it is a tragedy like Macbeth and Palpatine has no reservations in grabbing that dagger he sees floating in front of him to become Emperor.
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Dec 15, 2015 15:17
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Ramba Ral posted:How about it is a tragedy like Macbeth and Palpatine has no reservations in grabbing that dagger he sees floating in front of him to become Emperor.
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Dec 15, 2015 15:40
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homullus posted:Maybe it's not actually an epic tragedy to have a bunch of dogmatic slavery-enablers betrayed and killed by a serial betrayer-killer. Considering how Tatooine is explicitely not really a part of the Republic (To the point it doesn't even accept its currency and has actual crime lords as governement), that whole "Jedi enabled slavery!!!" thing annoys me. I mean, there are actual flaws in their portrayal and the prequel at whole, but the amount of headcannon fans indulge in to make them even worse is rather ridiculous.
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Dec 15, 2015 16:01
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The Machete Order really is pretty good, wtf.
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Dec 15, 2015 16:27
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Iceclaw posted:Considering how Tatooine is explicitely not really a part of the Republic (To the point it doesn't even accept its currency and has actual crime lords as governement), that whole "Jedi enabled slavery!!!" thing annoys me. I mean, there are actual flaws in their portrayal and the prequel at whole, but the amount of headcannon fans indulge in to make them even worse is rather ridiculous. Headcanon? Luke (one of the post-Republic Jedi) goes to Tatooine and helps free a number of slaves, slaughtering a bunch of a crime lord's minions. The only reason he doesn't off the crime lord himself is that one of the slaves has done it for him. Qui-Gon (one of the Republic Jedi) goes to Tatooine and sorta shrugs and says "welp!"
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Dec 15, 2015 16:36
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homullus posted:Headcanon? Luke (one of the post-Republic Jedi) goes to Tatooine and helps free a number of slaves, slaughtering a bunch of a crime lord's minions. The only reason he doesn't off the crime lord himself is that one of the slaves has done it for him. The Republic Jedi always seemed more like cops to me. If it was out of their jurisdiction they mostly ignored it.
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Dec 15, 2015 16:47
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susan posted:Logistics questions for y'all that Google ain't helping with: At 225 meters the thing is the size of a WW2 Battleship but at 200 crew it has less than a tenth of the crew. The ship must be mostly engines and is roughly aerodynamic. I don't see why it wouldn't be able to land. Looks like you've already got the important crew down. 3 NPCs is already a lot but you could add an XO (second in command) and a Storm Trooper/Marine CO if there are any other infantry types. Gunnery sergeants are always amusing, just model him after the one in We Were Soldiers if you want him to be competent. A ship that large should have a shuttle or two, so there could be some pilots, maybe even a handful of disposable Tie Fighters, the empire hands those out like candy.
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Dec 15, 2015 16:50
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homullus posted:Headcanon? Luke (one of the post-Republic Jedi) goes to Tatooine and helps free a number of slaves, slaughtering a bunch of a crime lord's minions. The only reason he doesn't off the crime lord himself is that one of the slaves has done it for him. homullus posted:Your "more compelling version" misses one point of the movies, which is that armed guardians of peace and justice operating independently are inherently problematic. So yes, if you scrap the things the creator of the Jedi thought they were, it is probably better for your headcanon. Luckily, with RPGs, you totally can run your game however you and your players want it to go. I think some of the Old Republic people behind the video games imagine Jedi the same way you do (sort of itinerant judges and problem-solvers). You criticize the Jedi for doing stuff and you criticize Jedi for not doing stuff. Sounds like you're just looking for reasons to be mad at Jedi.
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Dec 15, 2015 16:56
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The Jedi were technically members of the republic in the prequels. If qui-gon had started slaughtering the planetary leaders of a neutral non-enemy planet, that would be pretty explicitly a bad loving thing. Unlike with invading trade federation worlds, there was no open war with tattooine, so if he had started freeing slaves he probably would have either sparked open war with the entire butt cartel through all of hutt space, making it a war with two enemies, or would have been branded a criminal and hunted down by his own government. Luke is part of a fallen order that has no ties to any government or higher organization besides the rebel alliance, and one of the rebel alliance /leaders/ has been taken a slave. This is after said hutt explicitly hunted down a member of the rebel alliance and took him prisoner, working in consort with an enemy to the rebel alliance. This was Jabba firing the first shot. Edit: haha butt cartel thank you autocorrect. KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 17:29
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LLSix posted:You criticize the Jedi for doing stuff and you criticize Jedi for not doing stuff. Sounds like you're just looking for reasons to be mad at Jedi. Nah, it's not like that. Jedi are interesting! I am criticizing the idea that the Jedi "should" have been something different in any of the movies. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes was not a question many prequel-watchers were expecting, I think. I think "jurisdiction" is an interesting take on Qui-Gon's non-action, but is there any evidence of that in the movies? An Imperial Star Destroyer and the Rebel blockade runner were both close enough to Tatooine for the droids to land there in Episode IV. Stormtroopers are on the planet. Is Tatooine an island in international waters, or is it just rural Nebraska?
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Dec 15, 2015 17:47
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homullus posted:Nah, it's not like that. Jedi are interesting! I am criticizing the idea that the Jedi "should" have been something different in any of the movies. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes was not a question many prequel-watchers were expecting, I think. The empire did expand into the outer-rim a decent amount after the Clone Wars if I remember right. They likely have outposts on worlds like Tatooine without it being under full Empire control. Also it might be more of that being part of the Republic was a option and membership in the empire was not.
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Dec 15, 2015 18:07
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Luke was hardly there to free Tattooine from Hutt Oppression. He was there to rescue Han. Jabba's death was a happy extra in the resulting crossfire (I wonder if any of those other slave girls or other innocents were in the sail barge when Luke turned the deck gun on the ship? I doubt Leia was the only slave brought along) Jabba's death probably isn't going to improve much on Tattooine. There will be a few rounds of nasty gang warfare as other Hutts and criminal lords try to muscle in on the power vacuum left by Jabba's death and then its back to business as normal on the world.
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Dec 15, 2015 18:19
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Tatooine had an Imperial presence. There was a governor and a stormtrooper garrison in Bestine, the planetary capital, but the Hutts were the ones who really ran things.
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Dec 15, 2015 18:26
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homullus posted:Nah, it's not like that. Jedi are interesting! I am criticizing the idea that the Jedi "should" have been something different in any of the movies. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes was not a question many prequel-watchers were expecting, I think. According to the EU everyone hates, the imperials technically spread to Tattooine between the prequels and original trilogy. They nominally owned the planet, but technically the hutts still ran it through a combination of bribes and intimidation. Yes, there was an imperial governor but his office was filled with high quality spice and rugs that are worth way more than any imperial governor should have, and he just happened to give those benefactors more favors and looked the other way for their crimes.
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Dec 15, 2015 18:28
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Even without bringing the EU in, just watching the movies is enough. It's not part of the democratic, more or less respectful of its frontiers Republic, yet it's part of the evil, expansionnist Empire. Geez, what could have happened in the meantime? 
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Dec 15, 2015 18:38
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Iceclaw posted:Even without bringing the EU in, just watching the movies is enough. It's not part of the democratic, more or less respectful of its frontiers Republic, yet it's part of the evil, expansionnist Empire. Geez, what could have happened in the meantime? Most people don't know! 
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Dec 15, 2015 18:46
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homullus posted:Nah, it's not like that. Jedi are interesting! I am criticizing the idea that the Jedi "should" have been something different in any of the movies. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes was not a question many prequel-watchers were expecting, I think. If you took every single Jedi alive at the time of the Republic without backing from the Republic to defeat slavery on Tatooine, they would all die.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:02
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Yorkshire Tea posted:If you took every single Jedi alive at the time of the Republic without backing from the Republic to defeat slavery on Tatooine, they would all die. No, but really, if you take away all EU stuff and go from the movies alone, why is this true? Anakin kills a whole village of warriors by himself. And even with EU stuff, why doesn't Qui-Gon just take Anakin? Luke just walks into Jabba's palace and chokes a dude and mind-controls somebody else, then kills the rancor and a sail barge full of presumably-crime-guys. Qui-Gon could punch Watto if he got uppity and just grab the kid and go. Do you think Luke would leave a kid to be a slave?
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Dec 15, 2015 23:09
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Per the prequels, Jedi in the Late Republic were douchebuddhists. I mean, look at how Obi-Wan raises his foster son. "So you suffered years of abuse as a child and now you have normal teenage feelings on top of that. Have you tried being perfectly serene, having no real attachments, and always obeying your elders? Works for me."
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Dec 15, 2015 23:19
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Even taking away the issue of jurisdiction, Qui Gon was not there to free the slaves, he was there in the middle of a very important mission. He already went off track a bit just to get the boy, going off track further to essentially lead a slave revolt is a bit further out of the mission perimeters, his time there was time sensitive even aside from the fact that they wouldn't even be there except for damaged parts on the ship. Now if you imagine Jedi as D&D Paladins, who are not allowed to overlook evil, then there is an issue. But that was always a bad reading of Jedi, not to mention Paladins, as they would never get anything done, what with having to constantly go off track from whatever they were doing to right wrongs.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:20
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homullus posted:No, but really, if you take away all EU stuff and go from the movies alone, why is this true? Anakin kills a whole village of warriors by himself. I literally just posted why. It's because breaking the law in a foreign nation that is one of the three strongest powers in the universe is a bad idea. The hutts are not all friends but if you gently caress with their dominion you get an army on your rear end. With a civil war already under way, starting a fight with the second largest group in the galaxy is loving dumb. Jedi are peaceful guardians, they are not Batman's who stab people who they are not at open war with, because they find something morally wrong.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:39
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So, uh, how about that there Star Wars RPG? Its pretty fun, isn't it?
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Dec 16, 2015 01:36
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@swrpgadventures adventure ideas in 140 characters or less! Our heroes have successfully infiltrated a famous academy but to maintain their cover they have to debate the ranking Imperial scholar on the ethics of the Jedi order
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Dec 16, 2015 02:01
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Mustache Ride posted:So, uh, how about that there Star Wars RPG? Its pretty fun, isn't it? Tons of it. kingcom posted:Anyway I'm playing in a star wars saga edition game as well as running an EotE game at the moment and man it makes me appreciate how much better the EotE rules are. One of the biggest disappointments with my gaming group is that they prefer Saga edition to the Fantasy Flight Star Wars. karmicknight fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 02:09
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Mustache Ride posted:So, uh, how about that there Star Wars RPG? Its pretty fun, isn't it? Maybe star wars was a mistake? Anyway I'm playing in a star wars saga edition game as well as running an EotE game at the moment and man it makes me appreciate how much better the EotE rules are.
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Dec 16, 2015 02:23
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kingcom posted:Maybe star wars was a mistake? Wasn't SAGA a go between 3.5 and 4th edition of d&d? All I remember is that you had to multiclass as Jedi to be good or something. Not Keyser Soze posted:@swrpgadventures adventure ideas in 140 characters or less! 1. During the Old Republic days, the party is a group of Communist Abolitionists looking to overthrow the Republic and set up a Communist paradise. 2. Saints Row and Star Wars.
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Dec 16, 2015 03:43
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karmicknight posted:One of the biggest disappointments with my gaming group is that they prefer Saga edition to the Fantasy Flight Star Wars. My saga GM doesnt like FFG star wars either so if i want to be a player in a star wars game I have to play saga.  Ramba Ral posted:Wasn't SAGA a go between 3.5 and 4th edition of d&d? All I remember is that you had to multiclass as Jedi to be good or something. Kinda but literally nothing positive about 4th is really in the game yet or its in but has giant problems. Like second wind being a once per day thing that heals bugger all and doesnt scale in the slightest (I have 74 hp and I heal 18 with a second wind for example at level 8). You needing to multiclass like crazy to be effective (unless you just go all in jedi) because everyone is essentially worrying about feat chains/combos like 3.5 fighters. Skills not scaling at the same rate as attacks and defences. Defences are 10 + level + stat + class bonus vs attacks which are BAB + stat + weapon focus and skills which are +5 if trained + 5 if skill focus + stat + 1/2 level. Also not all classes have full BAB but defences always have at least +1 level so all the math is a clusterfuck. Also force powers use a skill to make their attack rolls so they can easily be in situations where you are rolling 15+1d20 vs 15 against a target of equal level. Also lightsabers are hilarious bad weapons unless you nail your giant fight feat chain to make them useful. kingcom fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 03:57
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KittyEmpress posted:I literally just posted why. It's because breaking the law in a foreign nation that is one of the three strongest powers in the universe is a bad idea. All this "law in a foreign nation" is totally EU stuff, though, yes? Am I not remembering a legal briefing in The Phantom Menace, where Qui-Gon is told to Obey All Hutt Laws even if they are literally slavery? Even with EU stuff, Anakin literally does stab people he is not at open war with, on Tatooine, with no mention of the Hutts. Obi-Wan slices a dude's arm off on Tatooine with no mention of the Hutts -- and since the cantina is kind of a crimey drinkplace, it would be even more Hutt jurisdiction. Luke kills a bunch of people on Tatooine when he rescues his sister, who has been enslaved; a Hutt makes an appearance in this scene and is murdered. No repercussions for Rebellion, Republic, or Empire. What I am saying is that the movies alone definitely do not support Qui-Gon's inaction, and even with the EU bundled into the equation "butbut Hutt Space jurisdiction" is not very strong given the amount of Jedi- and Rebellion-induced violence that happens on Tatooine in the films. There is a huge spectrum between "not doing anything to help people" and "leading a slave revolt on Tatooine" and I am sure a given Star Wars RPG group could come up with five ways to help free a slave kid that doesn't involve leaving his mom behind or dragging the Republic or Rebellion into war with the Hutts.
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Dec 16, 2015 04:30
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Not Keyser Soze posted:@swrpgadventures adventure ideas in 140 characters or less! The party is framed for the murder of Senator Jar Jar Binks, prove your innocence and unravel the conspiracy surrounding it.
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Dec 16, 2015 05:52
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HOOLY BOOLY posted:The party is framed for the murder of Senator Jar Jar Binks prove your innocence and unravel the conspiracy surrounding it.
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Dec 16, 2015 07:12
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homullus posted:All this "law in a foreign nation" is totally EU stuff, though, yes? Am I not remembering a legal briefing in The Phantom Menace, where Qui-Gon is told to Obey All Hutt Laws even if they are literally slavery? You should read the posts on this page again because every single point is adressed, really. Qui-Gon was on a mission. More to the point, he points out in the goddamm movie that it's part of Hutt Space, slavery is legal here while not in the Republic, and is told his money is no good. That's kind of a rather unsubtle hint that he is not on domestic grounds, so maybe crusading in another territory would cause some kind of diplomatic incidents. Anakin and Luke's cases are not even applicable. Anakin murders what is considered to be savages raiders by the locals. And even so, it's not exactly depicted as anything he should be proud of. Luke is freeing Han, and rescuing Leia. He also isn't part of an established order and state with borders with Hutt space. And considering Han can shoot Greedo without anyone batting an eye, it's also pretty easy to infer from the context that standard bad guy bar applies : if you, a random nobody, get into trouble, sucks to be you. And I'd be glad to ear what would be a rpg group's solution that takes in account both the time constraint, force immunity of Wattoo, lack of money, presence of a small bomb in all of the slaves, and legality of slavery in Tatooine. Iceclaw fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 08:23
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Everblight posted:The party is framed for the murder of Senator Jar Jar Binks, roll resilience to survive the weeks-long drunken partying as this is generally heralded as an unqualified good thing. My group is responsible for putting Senator Binks in "Charge" of the Rebel Alliance. Hopefully only as a political figurehead.....
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Dec 16, 2015 09:28
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It appears even very large ships can land although it may be a bit of a trial. You see venators on the ground at the end of clone wars. In Battlefront you even see an SSD that appears to be launching on the sullust map, and certainly Star Destroyers and Mon Cal cruisers sitting at less than 1000 feet trading fire. Also who the gently caress built all the venator cruisers?
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Dec 16, 2015 09:54
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Grey Hunter posted:My group is responsible for putting Senator Binks in "Charge" of the Rebel Alliance. Is this your LP where you guys are rewriting the original trilogy? Now I'm strangely compelled to catch up on it.
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Dec 16, 2015 10:43
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homullus posted:No, but really, if you take away all EU stuff and go from the movies alone, why is this true? Anakin kills a whole village of warriors by himself. I typed up a response to this. But then I realised I want nothing to do with CineD madness outside of CineD.
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Dec 16, 2015 10:50
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How about the answer is that George Lucas is a really bad writer? That seems like the best explanation.
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Dec 16, 2015 11:09
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