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My sarcasm has never received a greater reward. Ave Azaria posted:I watched all of season 1 as rapt as anything, but by its end I felt it was ultimately sort of an unfocused mishmash of Coens tropes. Season 2 was much better, had its own unique vibe, and aside from maybe Betsy's cancer, didn't have any subplots that didn't drive the main story forward. Season one spent a lot of time with Oliver Platt that could've been swapped out with anything else. Season 2 has a more consistent tone and is much more confident in the story it's telling. Also, the final act doesn't rely on a huge writerly coincidence (Lester seeing Malvo in the bar in Vegas and then refusing to back down when Malvo repeatedly signals for him to shut the gently caress up) that IMO feels way too forced. Season 2 unfolds incredibly naturally.
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Dec 16, 2015 08:18
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centaurtainment posted:My sarcasm has never received a greater reward. Dude nearly everything that happens in Season 2 either relies on huge writerly coincidences or previously intelligent individuals acting like braindead morons solely because the plot demands
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Dec 16, 2015 08:20
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Toxxupation posted:Dude nearly everything that happens in Season 2 either relies on huge writerly coincidences or previously intelligent individuals acting like braindead morons solely because the plot demands Why don't you give some examples that might further discussion instead of simply negating mine? EDIT: On second thought please don't, we all hear loud and clear that you didn't like season 2, and this is going to devolve into a weird "Season 1 plot holes vs. Season 2 plot holes" game that I'm not really interested in playing. centaurtainment fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 08:51
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Fantastic season imho albeit with a considerable number of hiccups re: the aforementioned narrative shortcuts and crutches. I think the overall quality of the cast came together to deliver a product beyond what was on paper though and this was probably the best thing I've seen on tv all year. I'm a little cool on the ending however. Wrapping things up such that virtually every character, in so far as I can recall atm, was worked into a poetic fate got a little too contrived for me especially when it relied on things like hanzee's assault rifle having an intelligently crooked sight, alien interference and even oddball decisions like milligan's boss concluding that the best use of a proven, potent, charismatic enforcer was balancing budgets behind a desk to put out a weekly projection. Yes those two occupational skill sets overlap perfectly. Still though, this and any other critique(s) I can come up with barely have any weight next to the positives of this season so I'm fully on board for 3, whenever that comes around.
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Dec 16, 2015 08:51
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hard counter posted:oddball decisions like milligan's boss concluding that the best use of a proven, potent, charismatic enforcer was balancing budgets behind a desk to put out a weekly projection. Yes those two occupational skill sets overlap perfectly. On that point at least, there is real-life precedence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle
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Dec 16, 2015 10:43
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I also think this was the guy genuinely trying to "reward" Mike by giving him the things that the guy himself valued - acceptance into the "office", a "safe" job with room for advancement and shifting into the social circles of the top echelon. The fact that it's basically going to be a living death for Mike wouldn't have occurred to him, because he figures Mike is a guy who wants to succeed and doesn't understand that they have two extremely different definitions of what success is.
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Dec 16, 2015 10:48
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hard counter posted:oddball decisions like milligan's boss concluding that the best use of a proven, potent, charismatic enforcer was balancing budgets behind a desk to put out a weekly projection. Yes those two occupational skill sets overlap perfectly. The voice over at the beginning of episode 9 admits KC sent a guy to assassinate Milligan, so they were obviously not satisfied with his performance in the field. But Milligan managed to impress them enough with his subsequent actions to avoid the noose, but I see it as KC putting him in a position where Milligan can do no harm.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:08
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I read it that way too. They're just burying him because his skillset is no longer needed--he's a warrior for the future, and the future won. After the incredibly cathartic last episode, I did expect a fair amount more out of this one, and definitely agree that it felt ten minutes too short. Milligan's story wrapped up nicely, way more so than the Blumquists and Solversons. The symbolism of Hank's search for a visual language was admittedly lost on me. I appreciate what they did with Hanzee, but that last shot of him walking onto the field was a bit too ambiguous. Well, not ambiguous, just out of left field. Even then, this season was so confident and self-assured that I can't bring myself to be disappointed. I'd like to think Hawley & Co. sat down in the writer's room planning this season, saying, "We have to have the last episode use War Pigs, but we have to earn it." And they did, with the way the split-screen rhythmically cut in and out. The episode is all the better in reflection, and the season was one of the strongest I've seen. I'd definitely still rate it up there with BBs2, Wire s3, and True Detective s1. f#a# fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 16:24
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Very satisfying.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:45
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So what would they have convicted Peggy of? Vehicular homicide? Tampering with evidence? Obstructing justice? I know Ed got the police captain's promise to talk about getting charges dropped in writing, but he only said he'd talk about it - and that isn't happening now. Floyd did get a promise of no charges for Gerharts for acts committed prior to their helping the local authorities. Wouldn't Charlie have fallen under that umbrella?
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Dec 16, 2015 16:51
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Goddamn you guys latched on to the bullshit "confident" term didn't you?
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Dec 16, 2015 17:20
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It's not wrong. This season threw UFOs and an extended passage from the Jabberwocky at you, and beyond that, constantly experimented with directorial techniques that haven't been used seriously in decades. That's to say nothing of the plotting, which as some reactions here show, was anything but traditional.
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Dec 16, 2015 17:26
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CowboyKid posted:Goddamn you guys latched on to the bullshit "confident" term didn't you? Yeah, Season 2 was fully actualized in it's story telling, not "confident." That was a pretty good closer. I feel the most sorry for Ed. He got a pretty bum deal in the end. Not that he's totally innocent.
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Dec 16, 2015 17:30
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perfect.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:05
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Definitely sad to think of Charlie rotting away in a prison unseen and forgotten for 10 or more years knowing that everyone he ever knew and loved died horrible, violent deaths. I thought the milligan thing was appropriate but weird. They made him legitimate, but wasn't he wanted for questioning by several different police forces in connection with multiple gangland style massacres? He had investigative journalists tailing him to hotels and now he has his own office with his name on the door? That's a stretch to me, even if it is one of the most poetic endings for a character I've ever seen outside of Walter White.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:29
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speshl guy posted:Definitely sad to think of Charlie rotting away in a prison unseen and forgotten for 10 or more years knowing that everyone he ever knew and loved died horrible, violent deaths. Who would the cops be asking him about? The Gerharts all died fighting cops. The Undertaker and his squad were probably buried in the same landfill as the Buffalo guy. I'd be surprised if Floyd even reported Otto's murder to the police. I guess there was the shootout at the doctor's office parking lot. You'd think it'd be easier to pin a murder on the one Black guy in the state. The 70's were an odd time.
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Dec 16, 2015 19:07
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Wait people were serious saying they wanted more closure for all the characters? Other than 'they carried on living' or 'they died fairly soon after', what in the hell needs to be said?
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Dec 16, 2015 20:31
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Steve2911 posted:Wait people were serious saying they wanted more closure for all the characters? Other than 'they carried on living' or 'they died fairly soon after', what in the hell needs to be said? Well, one of them had cancer, so "they died fairly soon after" would have been pretty good closure.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:14
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Krispy Kareem posted:Well, one of them had cancer, so "they died fairly soon after" would have been pretty good closure. Well she ain't around in season 1. I think that's wrapped her up nicely.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:16
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centaurtainment posted:Coen Brothers references: also My Lovely Horse posted:During the first few episodes I thought Bear was the younger version of the Fargo mob boss Lorne kills in season 1.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:29
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Someone tell me Lance Tomacock is a real person because that name is hilarious. feedmyleg posted:As someone who skipped season 1 because he doesn't like BBT, I have to say I'm so bummed about going back to modern day because goddamn did I love the period nature of this season. Please go back and watch Season 1 and put aside your trivial dislike of BBT and try to appreciate the masterpiece of a performance he puts on across 10 entire episodes.
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Dec 16, 2015 23:08
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This is the second time I heard someone avoiding season 1 because of their hate of BBT. What's the reason?
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Dec 16, 2015 23:37
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Who narrated this episode?
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Dec 16, 2015 23:48
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Jehde posted:This is the second time I heard someone avoiding season 1 because of their hate of BBT. What's the reason? BBT ain't "pretty". Just sayin. Plus he looks and talks like a redneck most of the time. He's also got an abrasive personality off camera. Dude's done some dope work tho, MMM-HMMMM.
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Dec 17, 2015 00:02
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Paladinus posted:Who narrated this episode? Patrick Wilson, Lou Solverson.
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Dec 17, 2015 01:18
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I'm the exact opposite, I like Billy Bob Thornton and have never seen him in a role I didn't like, so season 1 was an extra treat for me. On that note I really need to watch Bad Santa again soon for the holiday season. e: Also to people avoiding season 1 because they "hate" Billy Bob Thornton, here's a secret: You're supposed to hate his character. Hating BBT will probably make the season even better for you. King Vidiot fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 01:38
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Jehde posted:This is the second time I heard someone avoiding season 1 because of their hate of BBT. What's the reason? He's an actor who's known for playing creepy weirdos and scumbags, and sometimes the way he comes across in interviews makes him seem like a weirdo in real life.  Maybe people have other reasons too, but I had the "creepy" perception for many years myself; however, I also was not really familiar with his work nor had I ever sought out much detailed information on him. And I still don't know much more than I did before I watched season 1, but I had a bit of an "oh, duh" moment when I saw an interview where he said he often accepts weird character roles because he finds it much more interesting than playing an average boring person. Makes sense, I guess 
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Dec 17, 2015 01:42
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Yeah, BBT was probably the best part of season 1. The "you're making a mistake" episode in particular.
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Dec 17, 2015 03:04
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I can't imagine hating an actor so much that I won't watch something solely because they are part of the cast.
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Dec 17, 2015 03:08
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Henchman of Santa posted:I can't imagine hating an actor so much that I won't watch something solely because they are part of the cast.
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Dec 17, 2015 03:37
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Henchman of Santa posted:I can't imagine hating an actor so much that I won't watch something solely because they are part of the cast. I'm this way with Will Forte. Something about his face makes me almost physically uncomfortable, although I get how irrational that sounds.
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Dec 17, 2015 03:39
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Last Man on Earth is great
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Dec 17, 2015 03:40
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KoRMaK posted:Last Man on Earth is great Boom.
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Dec 17, 2015 03:52
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Fun callback: I've been re-watching S1, and in Episode 6, when Lester's visited in the hospital by his brother, their conversation has a very similar end result to that between Peggy & Lou in the cruiser; Chas comes in to confront Lester about what's been happening, which results in Lester declaring "I'm the victim here" and soon down the line Chas rebuking him with "People are dead, Lester".
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Dec 17, 2015 03:54
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Jerusalem posted:The fact that it's basically going to be a living death for Mike wouldn't have occurred to him, because he figures Mike is a guy who wants to succeed and doesn't understand that they have two extremely different definitions of what success is. Individually each storyline that stretched itself a bit too much to wrap up into a neat package at the end only over-extended itself a smidgen. For example, Hanzee's killing spree being the ultimate culmination of a lifetime of racism from whites and the life he spent as a servant of violent men, which in turn led to that weak moment where he admitted that he's tired of this life, was apparently concluded by Hanzee taking the face and identity of a white dude who'd become a big time boss later.  You can easily rationalize this and any of the other awkward outcomes but the sum effect of all of them for me was a much cooler ending to an otherwise red hot season. The camel's back didn't break, don't get me wrong, but the camel did start to grumble a little.
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Dec 17, 2015 03:55
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I think it's clear they didn't plan this season's story arc way back in Season 1, so I think what makes Hanzee's story so ridiculous is that, like you said, he changes his face to a white man's. It makes it feel cheap, like they really didn't think of the implications of that beyond "let's do a cool callback to Season 1 and blow everybody's mind!".
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Dec 17, 2015 03:58
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I have never really cared for BBT but he was so good in season 1. So god drat good. Season 1 owns and if you're missing out on it because you don't like BBT you're doing yourself a huge disservice. The elevator scene alone is worth it.
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Dec 17, 2015 04:10
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GobiasIndustries posted:Fun callback: I've been re-watching S1, and in Episode 6, when Lester's visited in the hospital by his brother, their conversation has a very similar end result to that between Peggy & Lou in the cruiser; Chas comes in to confront Lester about what's been happening, which results in Lester declaring "I'm the victim here" and soon down the line Chas rebuking him with "People are dead, Lester". if this franchise goes on long enough, eventually we will get an episode where the cold open is a slow, silent pan across a scene that seems to go on for just ages. then, as the object of interest comes into frame, a guest narrator says "well ya'know dawg..."
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Dec 17, 2015 04:24
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it's really nitpicky and dumb to complain about but at the end when danson is giving the symbols explanation, he goes in and out of his fake minnesota accent and it just really stood out to me
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Dec 17, 2015 05:08
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I wonder if Ted's whole visual language thing was related to the two kids signing. Sign language was recognized as a natural language in 1960 but didn't really blow up until the 80s, and a lot of people think sign language is universal (which it isn't). I really liked how they just had a deaf mobster in season one and I hope they do something sign language related in season 3 again.
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Dec 17, 2015 07:10
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