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As an aside, we've just started Turn 4. My New Guinea assaults were a failure, but there's still hope on the CBI Front. Playing EOTS reminds me of POG, in how punishing of mistakes it can be. Need to be better about thinking my Offensives through. I've got several days off coming up, so hopefully I can teach someone how to play it in person. It's a really good game!
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Dec 15, 2015 17:11
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Taran_Wanderer posted:As an aside, we've just started Turn 4. My New Guinea assaults were a failure, but there's still hope on the CBI Front. Playing EOTS reminds me of POG, in how punishing of mistakes it can be. Need to be better about thinking my Offensives through. I've got several days off coming up, so hopefully I can teach someone how to play it in person. It's a really good game! Yeah, and you really need a good slammer, too.
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Dec 15, 2015 18:54
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Taran_Wanderer posted:As an aside, we've just started Turn 4. My New Guinea assaults were a failure, but there's still hope on the CBI Front. Playing EOTS reminds me of POG, in how punishing of mistakes it can be. Need to be better about thinking my Offensives through. I've got several days off coming up, so hopefully I can teach someone how to play it in person. It's a really good game! Does EotS have the same feeling as PoG where two people are sat opposite each other, looking at their hand of cards and both going "Oh god, everything I do here loses me the game?"
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Dec 16, 2015 11:09
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MikeCrotch posted:Does EotS have the same feeling as PoG where two people are sat opposite each other, looking at their hand of cards and both going "Oh god, everything I do here loses me the game?" The reaction system when both sides have fleets in position will give you that feeling regardless of your hand, especially in 1943. The Kido Butai looms heavy over any attempt to get those progress of war hexes until you have enough replacements to make a mega battle less risky.
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Dec 16, 2015 12:16
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I agree that 1943 is probably the most exciting set of turns for the Allies. They have a small advantage over the Japanese, but not enough to always have things going their way. They are on a schedule to perform and take back terrain, but the Japanese can potentially still be an offensive threat, both in Solomons and especially the CBI. 1943 is pretty much the heart of the game and where most of the most tense, do or die moments of the game live.
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Dec 16, 2015 12:43
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silvergoose posted:Yeah, and you really need a good slammer, too. I got this. In a way, POGs is a pretty simplified war game, where your stack of pogs represent the rank and file infantry (from a Latin root word that means 'without voice') and the Slammer is an abstracted fate or destiny or what have you--the pitiless, arbitrary suffering that descends on young men and women in war zones throughout human history and into pre history.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:17
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Tekopo posted:I agree that 1943 is probably the most exciting set of turns for the Allies. They have a small advantage over the Japanese, but not enough to always have things going their way. They are on a schedule to perform and take back terrain, but the Japanese can potentially still be an offensive threat, both in Solomons and especially the CBI. 1943 is pretty much the heart of the game and where most of the most tense, do or die moments of the game live. The more I play EOTS, the less I like how the CBI is modelled (though I still love the feel in the Central and Southern Pacific). I feel that Commonwealth Defenses are too brittle, India goes into revolt too easily, and it's too hard for the Allies to divert extra forces into the CBI. Japanese supply lines in the CBI are far, far too easily secured, while in reality, they were genuinely quite tenuous, and Kohima/Imphal were the absolute limits of their logsitical capability, even after the Death Railway was completed. Historically, the Japanese conquered all of North Burma in '42 and pursued very little offensive action in '43 and early '44. Also, you can bet your house and mortgage on the Brits throwing the Kitchen sink at any Japanese invasion of Bengal proper rather than keeping the bulk of the British Indian army on internal security duties.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:52
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Yeah, having been on both the serving and receiving end of Burma invasions, the whole campaign in the CBI seems to be the weak point of EotS, but you still have to remember that even considering that, you did throw a lot of resources to the CBI and there was still a very real potential that it wouldn't pay off the way it did. We are modelling alt-history of course, so your early build of the railway and aggressive push, including pulling airplanes from various different positions could have been possible: in real life the Japanese didn't invest a fraction of the resources that you did. With other people I have seen either the CBI being static or the Japanese not even being able to push into Rangoon, nevermind Northern India, so some of the issues with the that theater are a bit overstated. It is still one of the weaker points of the game, and shows why modelling the rest of the Chinese front would have made the game much, much worse.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:58
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Wikipedia Brown posted:Since you're apparently in the inner circle of BoP nerds, are there any rumblings of an electronic PHAD assistant based on the kickstarted AVID assistant? It seems like most of the work is being done already. Update - I bit the bullet and joined the Yahoo Group and someone has done an Android app of the PHAD and nomographs. Nothing official though, I think the PHAD and AVID are sufficiently different due to the arrangement of the hexes and the different performance calculations that it'd be a fair amount of work to change one to the other.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:06
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Second Turn 3 card plays Current Hand:   With everything setup, I decide to use Tokyo Express with Comb Fleet HQ to move on Manilla, Kuantan, and Rangoon. I'm still somewhat worried about him bringing up some reinforcements to Rangoon, so I especially want to get it done now. The higher efficiency of Comb Fleet HQ makes the penalty for not playing Bridge River Kwai yet much more palatable. I'm not sure what to do with the Tokyo Express marker, so I just place it in Vogelkop to ensure 3SN Brigade stays in supply. The free ASPs go to assaulting Manila with the 14th Army from Tarakan. I'll probably take a step-loss from this, but I'm happy enough to get it done. 5AD is also activated so it can PBM up to the CBI Front. The Allies make their intel roll, and use SEAC HQ to bring CV Indomitable and SEAC Air up to the battle, as well as moving 14AF out of Rangoon to make it harder for me to apply hits. I also then realize I forgot to take BB Warspite's attack into account, and start to get a horrible feeling. Sure enough, the Allies roll a one result, and my air units are completely wiped out. Fortunately for me, I get a critical hit, and I'm able to eliminate CV Indombitable as well as reducing SEAC Air. This will help immensely, but losing the air units will be a significant setback for progress in the region. I win my ground combats, too, though the 14th Army attacking Manilla loses a step. The Allies then leave his Air units where they are, I PBM 5AD up to Rangoon and BB Warspite Emergency Naval Moves to Dacca. Looking back, I should have activated BB Kongo to attack Rangoon instead of 5AD. That way, he would have only had a chance to reduce all three units, instead of eliminating two. Maybe someday I'll learn to use enough force to prosecute my attacks (I have similar problems in POG; it still hasn't sunk in completely).    Allies play Operation Ash with ANZAC HQ. 10AF LRB attacks Davao, 5AF attacks Rabaul, and Aus Air is moved to Darwin. I have no Reaction cards, so it remains a surprise attack. 10AF LRB is reduced with no damage done to units in Davao. 23AF in Rabaul is also reduced. 10AF LRB is then moved to Darwin, Aus Air is moved to Hollandia, and 5AF remains in Lae. 
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Dec 16, 2015 18:08
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Tekopo posted:Yeah, having been on both the serving and receiving end of Burma invasions, the whole campaign in the CBI seems to be the weak point of EotS, but you still have to remember that even considering that, you did throw a lot of resources to the CBI and there was still a very real potential that it wouldn't pay off the way it did. We are modelling alt-history of course, so your early build of the railway and aggressive push, including pulling airplanes from various different positions could have been possible: in real life the Japanese didn't invest a fraction of the resources that you did. One thing I will say is that the land combat of this game is kinda the weakest aspect. This is why China was excluded, but it wouldn't really make sense without a CBI to draw in air-naval assets. That being said, a huge Japanese land commitment there should speed up allied attacks across the pacific in 1944 as they don't have to face as many Japanese units, or alternately it could soften Japan's defenses, though troops there are quite vulnerable because the intrinsic garrisons allow US air units to annihilate Japanese land units where they are present.
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Dec 16, 2015 19:43
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Third Turn 3 card plays Current Hand:  With Rangoon secured, I play Bridge on River Kwai to increase the efficiency of future offensives into Burma/Northern India.   Allies play Anakim Operation as an Event with SEAC HQ. SEAC Air, 14AF, FE Air, and 19 LRB are activated to attack Rangoon. Sadly, I fail my intel roll and 5AD is eliminated. The Allies then decline to PBM and everything stays put.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:34
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I really appreciate the AAR Taran, it's really interesting seeing the game from a different perspective. I have a strategy question for all of you: would you reinforce or abandon Rabaul in the above scenario? When the Allies have already managed to keep the air bases in northern New Guinea, Rabaul just seems to be somewhere where your air units are just sent to die to little gain. On the other hand, abandoning Rabaul leaves the Allies open to have a free no-stress progress of war turn since they can flip most of the Solomons (as long as they have Guadalcanal). So what do you do? Do you keep a sacrificial army in Rabaul to discourage a amphibious invasion? Do you remove everything from it as a lost cause?
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Dec 17, 2015 12:24
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I'd throw a 9-12 onto Rabaul and forget about it. If the Allies want their Progress of War in the Solomons, they can have it for 3 step losses and 2 ASPs. Also, I just got the new Kickstarter Promos for TS. Some of them are... interesting to say the least. Kremlin Flu is busted.
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Dec 17, 2015 12:33
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Panzeh posted:One thing I will say is that the land combat of this game is kinda the weakest aspect. This is why China was excluded, but it wouldn't really make sense without a CBI to draw in air-naval assets. As the US, I'd still rather not have to try landing on an Island full of intrinsic 12-12s, even if I can wipe out the other Japanese Ground Steps by air/naval bombardment (Which is a feat in itself)
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Dec 17, 2015 12:40
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tomdidiot posted:As the US, I'd still rather not have to try landing on an Island full of intrinsic 12-12s, even if I can wipe out the other Japanese Ground Steps by air/naval bombardment (Which is a feat in itself) That's true, but you often end up having to clear out Japan to win the game if you're not dominating the last five turns. Cleaning up the relevant Japanese air/naval units and then invading Japan is a staple of the last two turns or so if you're not winning otherwise, and the threat of invading Japan in 1944 should be a consideration of Allied strategy just to keep the Japanese honest in the DEI and the Phils. Once you get into 1944 you should have more than enough carriers and planes to blow up ground units if you need, anyway.
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Dec 17, 2015 13:01
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Tekopo posted:I really appreciate the AAR Taran, it's really interesting seeing the game from a different perspective. tomdidiot posted:I'd throw a 9-12 onto Rabaul and forget about it. If the Allies want their Progress of War in the Solomons, they can have it for 3 step losses and 2 ASPs. I actually put a full strength army down there, but that's mostly my plan. It's card seven of turn 4, and I'm still holding on to both Rabaul and Guadalcanal, so it seems to be working so far. I almost got to pull off something clever when he attacked Buin, but the dice were not in my favor. If I'm still around when he starts getting his Essex Carriers, I think I'll begin to withdraw.
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Dec 17, 2015 15:16
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By then you probably won't be able to withdraw 
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Dec 17, 2015 15:16
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One thing about Rabaul: If you have the Ops to spare you can take it in two card plays by landing just below it in New Britain and thus not eating the landing penalty. Don't do this unless you have total and complete air cover, though, as one of my opponents found out when he tried to do it to me
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Dec 17, 2015 15:20
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Tekopo posted:By then you probably won't be able to withdraw Probably! We'll see how it goes. I may also have a chance to prevent Progress of War this turn. That would be a nice boon.
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Dec 17, 2015 15:43
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Fourth Turn 3 card plays Current hand:   I want to finish off Malaya and reinforce Rangoon, so I use Weather as a 2OC with Comb Fleet HQ. 2AD, BB Kongo, and 38th Army attack Singapore. I want to move BB Kongo and 2AD up to Rangoon, but I have then attack Singapore on the way to ensure it gets finished off. I also strategic move 3AD up to Rangoon, and move the 15th and 38th Armies out of Rangoon. The Allies make their intel roll, but decline to activate anything, so I take Singapore without contest. 2AD and BB Kongo then move up to Rangoon.  Allies then place a card into FOQ.
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Dec 17, 2015 16:27
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"Killing 'Monsters'" - An Open Debate Question: "Monsters" came about in the pre-PC, pre-internet age. IMO there now should be NO "paper-monsters" put out. They are massively prone to errata; are impossible to play test adequately; and incredible tedious and hard to play (even to set up!). Computer versions of such behemoths either mitigate or solve ALL these issues. The trend to continue producing these monstrosities on paper is due to three reasons I can see: [1] Inelegant designers trying to impress size-fetish hobbyists (mainly 50+ Boomers that grew up on them in the pre-PC age) on their "best OOB ever!" research and massive amounts of paper in the box. Think about it: nearly all advertising for such projects focuses more on the QUANTITY of materials rather than the elegance of the rule set. [2] [1] works on us because many of us think that due to the physical size of such a project it MUST be the "ultimate" reference work on the conflict. THAT is an preconception which IMO is completely incorrect and we should work to dispel. Bigger boobs DO NOT necessarily mean a prettier girl when it comes to war games guys. It most often means that she is a real pig that will require a massive amount of make-up work for you to enjoy even getting to 1st base! [3] That game companies make more money selling you those (often errata-riddled and unplayable) boxes packed with more and more paper than smaller, well proof-read and well play tested (and playable) elegant gems. In summary: When it comes to Monsters - don't believe the hype! Although I own many of them - having grown up in their era initially - I have played very few because of the exigences of life and the effort involved both in investment of time and space. Many I've put on sale or on the trade block. Finally, I believe that this sort of war game does more to discourage away people (both new and old blood) from war gaming towards other more manageable forms of board gaming than it attracts. And that is bad for the hobby as a whole.
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Dec 17, 2015 17:22
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Lichtenstein posted:"Killing 'Monsters'" - An Open Debate Question: 
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Dec 17, 2015 17:24
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Agreed but it kind of makes me feel uncomfortable
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Dec 17, 2015 17:29
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StashAugustine posted:Agreed but it kind of makes me feel uncomfortable You mean you didn't join wargaming community to discuss superiority of 2D boobs?
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Dec 17, 2015 17:30
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Only grognards and MRAs would unironically use the word 'exigences'
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Dec 17, 2015 17:44
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I find that post hilarious, it's such a mish-mash of conflicting ideals. I don't know why someone would be so invested in stopping people from buying stuff that they might want to buy, though.
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Dec 17, 2015 17:49
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MikeCrotch posted:Only grognards and MRAs would unironically use the word 'exigences' Counterpoint: only grognards and pre-schoolers would unironically use the term "1st base".
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Dec 17, 2015 17:50
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What about baseball players?!
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Dec 17, 2015 17:51
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How would I know, I don't talk with JOCKS I'm a respectable grog.
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Dec 17, 2015 17:53
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Tekopo posted:What about baseball players?! Baseball players loving love wargames, man
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Dec 17, 2015 17:57
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Tekopo posted:What about baseball players?! https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/151022/baseball-highlights-2045
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Dec 17, 2015 17:59
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Tekopo posted:I don't know why someone would be so invested in stopping people from buying stuff that they might want to buy, though.  while 10 minutes later  StashAugustine posted:Agreed but it kind of makes me feel uncomfortable 
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Dec 17, 2015 18:02
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Most of the wargamers I play with are my age or younger, lol just lol tomdidiot for example has barely learnt how to walk/talk
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Dec 17, 2015 18:05
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Is there such a thing as too big a game errata v1.1: - Complicated wargames no longer analogized directly to breasts. Instead, the size of the game by weight in grams and number of individual components is referenced against chart xcii: 'Midshipmen on leave in foreign port'. If the midshipmen are arrested for hurting a girl, public drunkness, or get rolled by a pimp, then the game is deemed to be too large to encourage new people to join the hobby of wargaming. - MRAs will now be renamed MGTOWs in order to avoid confusion with MREs and MIAs. - For the purposes of conversations on facebook, the plural of anecdote will be data.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:42
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It's not like PC grog games are faring much better or care about attracting new audiences. Paradox is the sole paragon in trying to drag in filthy, filthy casuals into a game that isn't a handholding shootromp and Crusader Kings seem to have attracted a fuckton of attention. Maybe Hearts of Iron IV will attract an another fucton, too. At least it looks to me like I'll be able to play it... until I read some wiki analysis that will cross reference national focus/land doctrines/switching between Infantry Weapons I and Infantry Weapons II in 1939 to tell me that if I don't get that .1 increase in soft attack, I'm doing it wrong. But before that, I'll probably be able to play it. And then you have Shrapnel games with circa '99 website and such holiday bargains as lowering the price of Steel Panthers MBT to $39.99 - this being their singularly prettiest and easily approachable game. Many other war sims look like poo poo (Flashpoint Campaigns perfectly recreates a Fulda gap simulator that runs on Windows 95) and are basically impenetrable in interface. And hell, even when they deign to have 3D graphics that are higher than industry standard was at launch of Half-Life 2, they make an interface that only a real soldier could get through. Looking at you, Graviteam Tactics. Also, Matrix Games don't give us review copies, they're mean poopieheads. Meanwhile, Gary Grisby keeps making games I don't feel safe criticizing, because War in the West is two patches away from being complex enough to develop sentience.
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Dec 17, 2015 21:10
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JcDent posted:Paradox is the sole paragon in trying to drag in filthy, filthy casuals into a game that isn't a handholding shootromp and Crusader Kings seem to have attracted a fuckton of attention http://unityofcommand.net/
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Dec 17, 2015 21:34
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Welp, I managed to prevent US Progress of War on Turn 4 and sunk two of their carriers, though I've lost most of good air units and many ground steps to do it. If I can succeed in the CBI front I might have a chance!
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Dec 17, 2015 21:59
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Is anyone getting Liberty or Death? I already have the Cuba Libre reprint and Falling Sky p500ed but those Cardhaus copies are tempting. It's a first time COIN guy doing the development though, right?
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Dec 18, 2015 15:16
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I'm P500-ing it because I don't want to wait for Cuba Libre or Falling Sky to get my first COIN and a lot of my friends are recently into the American Revolution thanks to Hamilton: The Musical.
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Dec 18, 2015 15:21
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