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Jastiger posted:Well it HAS made it harder to be overtly racist though, hasn't it? Not that I'm saying its Mission Accomplished and you're not going to wipe out racism by banning "friend of the family". But you ARE going to make it harder to overtly discriminate if you take the overt methods off the table. Same with religion. Your definition of "overt" seems to be "uses the word friend of the family". So yes, tautologically that is true. I mean we still get arsons of historic black churches, but it's not "explicit".
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Dec 16, 2015 15:23
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computer parts posted:Your definition of "overt" seems to be "uses the word friend of the family". So yes, tautologically that is true. Right and you get people who are racists forced to condemn those arsonists because its not socially acceptable to do it anymore. So even if you agree with the arsons its no long acceptable to be silent, you have to condemn it. Its like the racist tree parable, its how progress is made. Religious cover stymies that.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:24
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Jastiger posted:Well it HAS made it harder to be overtly racist though, hasn't it? Not that I'm saying its Mission Accomplished and you're not going to wipe out racism by banning "friend of the family". But you ARE going to make it harder to overtly discriminate if you take the overt methods off the table. Same with religion. Its harder to get suicide bombers and the like if you take away religion. I note VitalSigns is posting a few examples; isn't it evidence of religions problem that you're so able to find the few non religious examples there are? You can find maybe a dozen by scouring the internet, all the rest are religious in nature. I'm sorry you find religion so distasteful but like most things it isn't the cause of all the world's problems.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:26
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Jastiger posted:Right and you get people who are racists forced to condemn those arsonists because its not socially acceptable to do it anymore. I have not seen that anywhere. And do note I'm not talking about hypotheticals, I mean there were literally historic black churches burned down because of the whole Dylan Roof thing.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:26
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 How the goalposts shift."Suicide bombers don't do it in the name of their culture, just religion. Oh okay well sometimes they do it for their nation, but religion influenced them all, you can't find any that were in no way influenced by religion. Well okay you can but not as many so they don't count!" So you realize that in 1920 we could be doing just the opposite, wringing our hands over anarchist bombings and lamenting that without the moral guidance of religion, people have no respect for life, not even their own and lack of religion is the culprit that must be stamped out, right?
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Dec 16, 2015 15:29
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So does religion being rear end backwards and evil justify the things happening to muslims in the west thanks to islamophobia? If not why do people keep bringing it up?
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Dec 16, 2015 15:29
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computer parts posted:I have not seen that anywhere. Right and racist people were/are forced to condemn them, even if they find black churches distasteful to them because there isn't as much cover now due to social media and changing cultural norms. If everyone in the area is cool with it, nothing happens to the perpetrators, right? It gets brushed over, right? Religion is the same way, it allows bad ideas to fester because if you call out subset A of bad ideas, then YOUR subset B ideas could be up next-so they grant blanket immunity to faith based claims in order to avoid scrutiny.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:34
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Jastiger posted:Right and racist people were/are forced to condemn them, even if they find black churches distasteful to them because there isn't as much cover now due to social media and changing cultural norms. Again, you haven't shown that this has actually happened. In real life. Because the arsons did happen. I'm asking you for proof of this condemnation.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:34
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Jastiger posted:
Ooh look at your edgy caps! What does 'toxic' mean, and how religion more toxic than other elements of culture?
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Dec 16, 2015 15:36
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computer parts posted:Again, you haven't shown that this has actually happened. In real life. Because the arsons did happen. Why do you ignore the religion part and focus on the arson thing.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:36
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drilldo squirt posted:So does religion being rear end backwards and evil justify the things happening to muslims in the west thanks to islamophobia? If not why do people keep bringing it up?
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Dec 16, 2015 15:37
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Jastiger posted:Why do you ignore the religion part and focus on the arson thing. You really want to be right but your not, I'm sorry.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:38
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Obdicut posted:Ooh look at your edgy caps! What does 'toxic' mean, and how religion more toxic than other elements of culture? I think its been touched on more than a few times. It gives rise to bad ideas that are inherently harmful and untrue in the guise of morality. It also makes honest discussion of issues, particularly of science and behavior, extremely difficult because of the taboo's and prohibitions monotheistic religious beliefs inherently have. drilldo squirt posted:So does religion being rear end backwards and evil justify the things happening to muslims in the west thanks to islamophobia? If not why do people keep bringing it up? No, but it justifies being critical and not-nice to Islam as a religion which is often equated to Islamophobia.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:40
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Kind of hilarious to see how far VitalSigns has to stretch to find incidents of non-religious inspired suicide attacks.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:41
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Just say the arsonists were Christian therefore they were influenced by their religion
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Dec 16, 2015 15:41
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Jastiger posted:Why do you ignore the religion part and focus on the arson thing. Your thesis thus far has been "If we remove [thing], it will be harder to do [Bad thing], because people who do [Bad thing] also do [thing]". You mainly applied it to religion, but you also stated that condemning explicit language has reduced racial attacks, or at least has required racists to condemn those attacks. This has not shown to be true, so it puts your other point into jeopardy.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:43
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shrike82 posted:Kind of hilarious to see how far VitalSigns has to stretch to find incidents of non-religious inspired suicide attacks. The people who literally invented suicide bombings: "well now you're just stretching to ridiculous lengths, VitalSigns!" "Also, anyone who wasn't 100% atheist I am going to redefine as killing themselves in the name of religion no matter how obviously nationalist their motives"
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Dec 16, 2015 15:43
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Jastiger posted:I think its been touched on more than a few times. It gives rise to bad ideas that are inherently harmful and untrue in the guise of morality. So do other parts of culture. quote:It also makes honest discussion of issues, particularly of science and behavior, extremely difficult because of the taboo's and prohibitions monotheistic religious beliefs inherently have. You're loving kidding, you think there aren't non-religious taboos?
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Dec 16, 2015 15:43
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An example of a socialist suicide bomber.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:44
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Jastiger posted:
If it doesn't justify it why do you keep bringing it up in a thread about islamophobia?
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Dec 16, 2015 15:44
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VitalSigns posted:
Goalposts never shifted, your aim is just off. "Not that there isn't a cultural aspect to religion, but last I checked people didn't become suicide bombers in the name of 'their culture.'" I have yet to see anyone participate in suicide bombings strictly because of their cultural identity.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:45
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The image of a SJW suicide bomber attack is amazing though.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:46
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Nori_Takeshi posted:
Might be because there hasn't been a non-religious cultural identity outside of the last, oh, 60 years or so (being generous). And most cultural identities in that period were still religious in one way or another.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:46
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Nori_Takeshi posted:Goalposts never shifted, your aim is just off. OK so socialist revolutionaries don't count because...? Anarchists don't count because...? Nationalist Chinese fighting foreign occupation don't count either because...? VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 15:47
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computer parts posted:Your thesis thus far has been "If we remove [thing], it will be harder to do [Bad thing], because people who do [Bad thing] also do [thing]". You mainly applied it to religion, but you also stated that condemning explicit language has reduced racial attacks, or at least has required racists to condemn those attacks. But it has been true? I don't see people publicly cheering that black people were killed that aren't being called assholes or Trump supporters. Our culture doesn't really think thats cool anymore, and the parts of our culture that do are in the South where they are backwards as gently caress on that anyways because they DO provide cover for that bad behavior. If we remove [Religious interpretation of biology] it will be harder to [justify cutting off womens health care], because people who do [try to cut off womens health care] also are [using religious interpretation of biology]. drilldo squirt posted:If it doesn't justify it why do you keep bringing it up in a thread about islamophobia? Because my point is that pointing out the problems with a religion doesn't make one an Islamophobe which the OP and others has repeatedly said it very well does. Obdicut posted:So do other parts of culture. I didn't say that. I'm saying that religious taboos make discussions even harder and are responsible for most of the silly cultural aspects we have today i.e unfair treatment of nudity in men vs women, abortion rights, sexual relations among the same sex, something as basic as teaching science in school.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:55
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Jastiger posted:I didn't say that. I'm saying that religious taboos make discussions even harder and are responsible for most of the silly cultural aspects we have today i.e unfair treatment of nudity in men vs women, abortion rights, sexual relations among the same sex, something as basic as teaching science in school. Stalin somehow managed to ban male homosexuality on penalty of hard labor and banned evolution in favor of Lysenko's bullshit all on his own without the TOXIC and EVIL and VILE corrupting religion rotting his brain.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:59
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Jastiger posted:But it has been true? I don't see people publicly cheering that black people were killed that aren't being called assholes or Trump supporters. Note again, I didn't say "publicly cheering that black people were killed", I said "burned down historic black churches". And what you said earlier is that assholes (well, racists, but same thing; "bad people") would be forced to condemn the attacks. Are you disagreeing with this now?
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Dec 16, 2015 16:01
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VitalSigns posted:OK so socialist revolutionaries don't count because...? Generally non-religious activist try to cause terror attacks without dying. While religious terrorist may think that dying don't matter much because they will acquire the reward after dying. The reason is because many religious persons believe in a after-life.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:03
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Tei posted:Generally non-religious activist try to cause terror attacks without dying. While religious terrorist may think that dying don't matter much because they will acquire the reward after dying. The reason is because many religious persons believe in a after-life. How the gently caress did you come to this conclusion? What study did you do, what did you look at? Did you just have a good reckon, or did you do any amount of research whatsoever? I'd note one of the most famous religious terrorist groups, the IRA, had an explicit strategy of causing terror attacks without dying, but don't let that bother you.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:06
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Jastiger posted:But it has been true? I don't see people publicly cheering that black people were killed that aren't being called assholes or Trump supporters. Our culture doesn't really think thats cool anymore, and the parts of our culture that do are in the South where they are backwards as gently caress on that anyways because they DO provide cover for that bad behavior. People are saying you are an islamophobe because you seem to be an islamophobe.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:07
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This is atheist just-worlding. 'It has to be religion's fault because as an atheist I refuse to believe I could be capable of such things.'
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Dec 16, 2015 16:10
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If you come into an argument about if it's bad to send jews to camps and sterilize them and start talking about how the jewish religion has been a net drain on humanity it's not that hard to assume that you are an antisemite, Islamophobia works the same way.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:10
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I think most people here would be willing to expand it to islam and socialism being the leading causes of suicide bombings over the past century.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:12
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Obdicut posted:
What do you mean exactly when you say religious terrorist group?
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Dec 16, 2015 16:16
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The Nazis banned physics because it was too Jewish and enforced properly nationalist secular Deutscherphysik, giving them a massive technological advantage over the irrational Christian-dominated United States and their crazyman Einstein with his toxic belief in God, so it was no surprise that the 1943 atomic attacks on New York, Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Boston knocked the US industrial machine out of the war and led to a quick capitulation.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:16
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Many religious people believe in the after-life For them dying is like "Leveling up" for a computer Role Play Gamer. They believe the world has two instances. Zero: This is the lovely place where everything is poo poo.. And god allow it because Free Will. One: This is a awesome place that is perfect and awesome and fun and you are bro with God itself. When you die, your character is transfered from the Zero instance to the One instance. Is this a controversial idea in this thread? REALLY? Tei fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 16:19
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Next up: freed of the shackles of dark-age religion by Chairman Mao, China's agricultural and industrial production are projected to soar
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Dec 16, 2015 16:21
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VitalSigns posted:crazyman Einstein with his toxic belief in God, so it was no surprise that the 1943 atomic attacks on New York, Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Boston knocked the US industrial machine out of the war and led to a quick capitulation. Einstein wasn't really religious in the way some people like to think he was. Besides Nazi Anti-semitism seemed to be more obsessed with the Racial aspects rather than the religious ones.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:23
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What's controversial is the idea that religious people are engaged in suicide bombings in order to attain eternal bliss in the afterlife when all the major abrahamic religions, and indeed most eastern religions, view suicide as the ultimate in transgressions. Assuming someone was devoted enough to their faith to be willing to die for it they might want to check out the "Don't kill yourself you loving idiot" clause which is pretty prominent.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:24
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My opinion is that communism was just a sort of religion. I am not the only one that sort of suspect that... Yahoo answers posted:https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080408031457AAzfM2x I admit that is sort of a crazy idea, so I have no problem if everyone else disagree. Tei fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 16:26
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